Caber or prami?

[Octaneforce]

Im starting a npp/tpp/dbol cycle in the next week or two. Im on the fence about if i should use caber or prami. I like the fact that caber is only needed a few times a week. Prami is daily. Is the hgh benefit of prami enough to provide any noticable gains? I have both on hand. Can i switch from one to the other if one gives me bad sides during my cycle?

[ScotchGuard02]

I have gotten better results from Caber.

[GearHeaded]

prami is cheaper , has a longer shelf life, and is not often faked or bunk. Caber has less sides (mainly no nausea)

pick one and just hold onto it (thats why I like prami for its long shelf life) and hope you never even need to use it. unless your really prolactin sensitive you won't need it even at higher 19 nor doses. however getting blood work 5 weeks in to check progesterone, prolactin, and E levels is a good idea.

[< <Samson> >]

I only use HG side meds & id suggest doing the same - or, maybe straights raws

I try to use neither - I try my best to control estro 1st


But, when I do - I go to Caber, usually - sometimes Prami - Pramipex just needs to b dosed 10x more frequently than Caber

[Octaneforce]

I was planning on using one of them as insurance to avoid “deca dick” before it even happens. Caber seems to be the popular choice. Samson what do you mean when you say hg side meds? Im frazzled

[Bio-Active]

What dose deca are you running? Have you run deca before? You might not need it.

[cousinmuscles]

I was planning on using one of them as insurance to avoid “deca dick” before it even happens. Caber seems to be the popular choice. Samson what do you mean when you say hg side meds? Im frazzled

HG = human grade I assume (pharmaceutical grade). Next step is veterinary grade. A bit after that is UGL products.

[< <Samson> >]

HG = human grade I assume (pharmaceutical grade). Next step is veterinary grade. A bit after that is UGL products.

Yes sir

[David LoPan]

Im starting a npp/tpp/dbol cycle in the next week or two. Im on the fence about if i should use caber or prami. I like the fact that caber is only needed a few times a week. Prami is daily. Is the hgh benefit of prami enough to provide any noticable gains? I have both on hand. Can i switch from one to the other if one gives me bad sides during my cycle?

I have done purchased both. Those short esters IMO will be easy to control with dosing alone. I can normally tell if my progesterone, prolactin is running high if I have trouble hitting climax and then had blood work that confirmed it. I have never had the deca dick just the climax issues. Prami is easy to remember due to being a daily thing and costs a lot less and easy to get online. Prima has worked for me well in the past. Now, I also go with the Pharma, HG, now for caber and insurance covered it for me this time. About the only benefit of being older and having a good doctor.

[Octaneforce]

HG = human grade I assume (pharmaceutical grade). Next step is veterinary grade. A bit after that is UGL products.

Ohh okay wow im slow lol. Yea my ancillaries this time around are all pharma stuff

[Octaneforce]

What dose deca are you running? Have you run deca before? You might not need it.

I have a tpp/npp blend at 100mg tpp and 100mg npp per cc. So 200mg per cc total. It really cuts down on oil volume. I plan on running it mon/weds/fri at 1.75cc per pin which should give me a 525/525 weekly dose. No ive never used nandrolone before

[GearHeaded]

heres a common cause for "deca dick" , and its not the Deca..

example, Bob decides to run Deca for the first time, of course he's going to run it with a moderate dose of Test at say 400 and Deca at 500. He's always heard that deca is a bulking and 'wet' compound. being he's going to be running a total of 900mg of 'wet' compounds he knows he's going to need to run a ton of AI (not realizing that deca does not even convert to Estrogen at at 20th of what Test does).. so what Bob does is start taking .5mg of Arimidex ever other day.
Well 5 weeks into his cycle Bob is piss cause he's dick doesn't work and he blames the dreaded "deca dick" . well it wasn't the Deca Bob, it was all that Arimidex you were running when you probably did not need much of an AI at all.

happens all the time and is one reason why "deca dick" is so common. when the fact is that is AI dick , cause Deca does not convert to Estrogen at a high level and AI may not even be needed.


now having said that , yes if you are one of those guys that are very prolactin sensitive, elevated prolactin can effect your dick (and again thats only if your "sensitive" to it , some guys can run a gram of deca have high prolactin and dick still works fine).


personally , the only time I've ran Prami ahead a time as an insurance policy is when I was running four 19 nors together , Deca, NPP, Tren, and MENT at over 1500+ mg. I'm generally under 1.2 grams of 19 nor and I simply have it on hand.
heck I've had some of this shit on hand and never used it for like 8 years now lol . its always just in the fridge getting rotated out every couple years

[Octaneforce]

heres a common cause for "deca dick" , and its not the Deca..

example, Bob decides to run Deca for the first time, of course he's going to run it with a moderate dose of Test at say 400 and Deca at 500. He's always heard that deca is a bulking and 'wet' compound. being he's going to be running a total of 900mg of 'wet' compounds he knows he's going to need to run a ton of AI (not realizing that deca does not even convert to Estrogen at at 20th of what Test does).. so what Bob does is start taking .5mg of Arimidex ever other day.
Well 5 weeks into his cycle Bob is piss cause he's dick doesn't work and he blames the dreaded "deca dick" . well it wasn't the Deca Bob, it was all that Arimidex you were running when you probably did not need much of an AI at all.

happens all the time and is one reason why "deca dick" is so common. when the fact is that is AI dick , cause Deca does not convert to Estrogen at a high level and AI may not even be needed.


now having said that , yes if you are one of those guys that are very prolactin sensitive, elevated prolactin can effect your dick (and again thats only if your "sensitive" to it , some guys can run a gram of deca have high prolactin and dick still works fine).


personally , the only time I've ran Prami ahead a time as an insurance policy is when I was running four 19 nors together , Deca, NPP, Tren, and MENT at over 1500+ mg. I'm generally under 1.2 grams of 19 nor and I simply have it on hand.
heck I've had some of this shit on hand and never used it for like 8 years now lol . its always just in the fridge getting rotated out every couple years

I understand. I would just hate to realize im prolactin sensitive right when im about to try and impress some new chick lol

[Ashop]

I have gotten better results from Caber.

I'd say CABER is more user friendly too. 1/2mg 2x per week is all you should need.

[< <Samson> >]

I love fighting off side effects - not


When I first started running tren or deca I always used caber, then tried prami then went back to caber. Caber really fvcked with my dick, it just became hard to nut. . . . I stopped & came off - it took me almost 6 months to fully recover. Next cycle I ran a super low dose & I was fine. . . Then I completely stopped the caber & no prolactin sides ever came back since.


I am doing the opposite now - i'm pulling out compounds instead of just adding in more

[Octaneforce]

I love fighting off side effects - not


When I first started running tren or deca I always used caber, then tried prami then went back to caber. Caber really fvcked with my dick, it just became hard to nut. . . . I stopped & came off - it took me almost 6 months to fully recover. Next cycle I ran a super low dose & I was fine. . . Then I completely stopped the caber & no prolactin sides ever came back since.


I am doing the opposite now - i'm pulling out compounds instead of just adding in more

You ran a super low dose of caber or a super low dose of tren/deca? What dose of caber would you consider super low?

[< <Samson> >]

When I ran Caber last, it was .125mg 2x a week that was when I was at about 300-500mg a week of tren



Running my juice low now doesn't require it(yet I get gyno sides, but that's kind of a dif story) - I'm running my tren now at 120-150mg a week. . . .same when I ran Deca at 200mg a week this winter.

[ghettoboyd]

I can only use caber...parami makes me violently ill...

[Dannyboy51577]

Alot of guys say they have more negative sides from prami than caber, but i think thats person dependant, like everything. I run liquid prami .2ml 4x/wk. Frontloaded deca, running it at 400mg/wk, and i take the prami during the day, no lethargy or nausea. Only side effect ive had with this combo is that my time in the sack has been extended- wife asked me if this was going to be a normal side effect, because she has to make sure she is rested ahead of time.

[Octaneforce]

Alot of guys say they have more negative sides from prami than caber, but i think thats person dependant, like everything. I run liquid prami .2ml 4x/wk. Frontloaded deca, running it at 400mg/wk, and i take the prami during the day, no lethargy or nausea. Only side effect ive had with this combo is that my time in the sack has been extended- wife asked me if this was going to be a normal side effect, because she has to make sure she is rested ahead of time.

Time in the sack as in anorgasmia or less refraction time? Aka do u never bust or can u keep busting and not stop lol

[Dannyboy51577]

I bust, just last ALOT longer til i do. Refraction time is alot less as well. Im sure the increase in test when i incorporated the deca helps. I know alot of guys have negative sides from prami, but theres not much as far as meds that bother my stomach. Ill know ots workin as far as the prolactin/nor sides in a mtter of a few wks but dont anticipate any issues

[GearHeaded]

I'm just going to throw out some info here I got from another coach I know

""PROLACTIN & DECA

A very common theme you hear in bodybuilding circles is that you should always have ancillaries on hand when using nandrolone in case of prolactin issues.

This view isn't founded in any evidence, and anecdotally I have never seen prolactin increases in individuals using nandrolone on it's own, or in individuals running multi-compound hormone stacks when estrogen is controlled.

In the research below, long-term treatment of nandrolone caused prolactin levels to actually decrease, whereas testosterone treatment increased prolactin.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/...02808001400705

What I do believe can happen, is prolactin-like side effects (specifically lactation) can occur with nandrolone and trenbolone use when the user is transitioning from a highly aromatising stack to using these compounds as the primary growth anchor in their stack, due to the drop in estrogenic and progestational activity activating prolactin.

In summary, I believe far too many people jump straight to using drugs like prami and caber with deleterious long-term effects blindly just as a safe-guard with no relevant bloodwork that they actually need these compounds, or even any logical reasoning to do so being that they are typically used alongside nandrolone and trenbolone use. Our goal as physique athletes should always be to limit ancillary drug use at all times. Truly, if your hormonal stacks are planned effectively for you as an individual, you will never need to use these drugs anyhow.""

[Dannyboy51577]

GH, heres the thing i have to counter on a bit. Its hard to see what exactly is going on in this study. Obviously these patients are severely ill, im sure have alot of other things going into their bodies. Not to mention high prolactin levels to begin with, not sure why, and we dont see the whole study and other determining factors

What i found a while back in doin some of my own research, was even though there is little info available specifically concerning aas in the US, there is a ton of info about sone other chemicals- specifically anti depressants and anti psychotics. Theres a huge market for them, so tons of research and info. Theres a pile of stuff we could get into, but the one piece of info that caught my attention was the relationship between alot of these meds and dopamine, d2 receptors, and hyperprolactinemia.

They found in many studies- alot of them pretty recent too- there was an affinity for certain of these meds to bind to d1 and d2 receptors, and that there was a very direct correlation between the strength at which some of these meds bound, and the time they stayed bound, a drop in dopamine bound to d2 receptors, and hyperprolactinemia.

The meds that bound, but released quickly, offered less of a chance of raised prolactin levels. The ones that bound stronger and for a longer period of time, almost always resulted in high prolactin levels and hyperprolactinemia, with the normal symptoms we have all come to know.

They also found that the dosage mattered. Even the weaker binding chemicals, when given in larger doses, had a much higher percentage resulting in hyperprolactinemia.

So being that we dont have the data directly relating to tren or deca, etc, this is still very relevant. Now obviously there are other circumstances that play into this- GABA plays into the hypothalmus, seratonin plays into prolactin release, estrogen plays into the pituitary. But this info alone can be very valuable. The only problem is we dont know which category our aas falls. And we are only able to extract and apply this info, but it would seem to be accurate that our nor's, in larger doses (whatever number larger may be), could likely result in hyperprolactinemia. Which would make sense as to why symptoms dont usually present in smaller doses of deca, for example, but more often do, in higher dosages.
It is also possible that a combination of nors binding to d2 receptors, and estrogen levels affecting the pituitary are the culprit. But based on everything i could find-and belive me it was a ton, could t read it all in a year- theres a direct correlation between these actions. Which makes it likely- not proven- that high dose nors have a much higher percent chance of resulting in hyperprolactinemia. So i would have to say that having some meds on hand as insurance might be a good idea.

[GearHeaded]

GH, heres the thing i have to counter on a bit.

no worries brother, your not countering me or even 'my' post. I pasted that from someone else just to spark people to think. and I'm glad you did

through MY own experience with people, theres seems to be a sensitivity that some guys have to progesterone derived steroids. but perhaps there is more going on then just prolactin and needing a DA

[hollywoodundead2016]

caber

[Dannyboy51577]

I really wish there was more info and research done in the states. Theres actually a pretty decent amount that has been done and still being done in alot of the euro countries, russia, block countries. Just tricky to find it, and most of it isnt in english.

Stuff like this, to know the breakdown of actions of diffetent parts of the body, estrogen, pituitary, when certain chemicals are introduced and at certain dosages, but i guess thats a wish of alot of aas users lol.
Always enjoy coversing and bouncing ideas GH