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Thread: AI use causes insulin resistance

  1. #1
    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
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    AI use causes insulin resistance

    Heres one more reason why I suggest guys limit their use of AI's like Arimidex and only take it when the situation really calls for it. not just take an AI cause thats what the status quo has always been online

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4870856/

    The research from Frasier Gibbs shows that AI use reduces insulin sensitivity in healthy men. (via reduced peripheral glucose disposal).


    This is another reason why I recommend guys find other ways to manage estrogen instead of just taking AI's, like learning what your Test dosage is that you don't have too elevated of estrogen and using that dose along with non aromatizing compounds. OR running a low dose of a SERM like Nolva on cycle to prevent gyno
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    It's kind of a coin toss though as running a serm such as low dose nolva will impact GH levels. Naturally it's dose dependent but with either one there's a positive and a negative. I'm a fan of low dose nolva even though ralox doesn't effect IGF-1 levels.

    Quite the conundrum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    It's kind of a coin toss though as running a serm such as low dose nolva will impact GH levels. Naturally it's dose dependent but with either one there's a positive and a negative. I'm a fan of low dose nolva even though ralox doesn't effect IGF-1 levels.

    Quite the conundrum.
    another option - which I have promoted on here before. you don't run either. you find out where your "tolerance" level is for aromatizing compounds and you cap it there.

    so if with 300mg of test you don't get gyno or too high of estrogen sides, you simply stick to only 300mg of test for a blast and fill the rest in with something like EQ at 700mg.
    This essentially gives you a 1000mg base in which to build your cycle/anabolics around
    . and EQ is nothing more then Test without the androgenic and estrogenic properties. so on the anabolic side of things, your base is 'like' 1 gram of test . you simply add your VAR or Primo, or Mast or Tren , Winny, NPP, etc.. on top of this 1 gram 'test' base.

    now you need neither an AI nor a SERM. yet your running a 1 gram 'test' base with another gram or more of anabolics . who would of thought, 2.5 grams of gear a week and no gyno possible or AI needed


    on a side note , I'd rather take the small hit in IGF levels from a small dose on Nolva then the AI effects.. because I can make up the IGF drop by simply running IGF, running more Slin with my HGH, or upping my Tren.

    anyways. lots of ways to go about these things guys. keep an open mind and find what works best for you
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 03-02-2018 at 08:57 PM.

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    Oh I knew exactly what your answer would be and I don't disagree, but I just wanted guys to see that with every action comes a reaction, that's all. I've run low dose nolva with a plethora of cycles over the years and advised it here as well. Good stuff and scripted which makes it even nicer.
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    GearHeaded is offline BANNED
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Oh I knew exactly what your answer would be and I don't disagree, but I just wanted guys to see that with every action comes a reaction, that's all. I've run low dose nolva with a plethora of cycles over the years and advised it here as well. Good stuff and scripted which makes it even nicer.
    whats in Bold is an awesome statement. lots of different protocols and ways of doing things and we need to find what actions come with the reactions that are the most positive for ourselves . problem is, some guys don't get the opportunity to find that out and they just follow what they think they have to do
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    And I personally do recommend coming in on a small dose of anti-e's when test gets supraphysio. High estro will have its drawbacks too.

    Regardless, I think this is a great reminder that anytime we play with homeostasis there is a price to pay one way or another. One can never be too informed. Good read, thanks for sharing.

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    Hey kel, when you ise the protocol of low dose nolva on cycle versus an ai, how do you dose? I dont like the idea of arimidex , never have. I do have it, and use occasionally now that ive upped my test. But would like to research an alternative. Obviously it wont cap my estrogen level, but i like to explore and research options

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    10mg per day. personally I only do that if my test dosage is very high or I'm using another wet compound with it. different story for people that are gyno prone, they may need Nolva with only moderate doses of test

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    10mg per day. personally I only do that if my test dosage is very high or I'm using another wet compound with it. different story for people that are gyno prone, they may need Nolva with only moderate doses of test
    I know guys who have to run something even on small TRT dosages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    Heres one more reason why I suggest guys limit their use of AI's like Arimidex and only take it when the situation really calls for it. not just take an AI cause thats what the status quo has always been online

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4870856/

    The research from Frasier Gibbs shows that AI use reduces insulin sensitivity in healthy men. (via reduced peripheral glucose disposal).


    This is another reason why I recommend guys find other ways to manage estrogen instead of just taking AI's, like learning what your Test dosage is that you don't have too elevated of estrogen and using that dose along with non aromatizing compounds. OR running a low dose of a SERM like Nolva on cycle to prevent gyno
    Please note that the study was using insane amount of Armidex. - 1mg daily
    Please note that the study wasn't done on steroid users.
    Please note using steroids increases insulin sensitivity so any effects of using a moderate dose of AI probably get canceled out by the use of AAS.

  11. #11
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    Interesting article I have learned some stuff from this. However using e.g. 500mg of testosterone and 0.25mg arimidex per day will not cause any insulin resistance as in this article, I'll explain a bit below.

    They point out that in a similar experiment with Letrozole , insulin sensitivity improved. Their explanation for this is:
    In previous aromatase inhibitor studies in men (21) in whom supraphysiological plasma T concentrations were achieved, the greater delivery of substrate androgens may have limited the desired effect of minimizing local estrogen generation and action in target tissues.
    Since letrozole increases serum testosterone and LH at a much higher degree than Arimidex, they explain why no insulin resistance occured with that experiment:
    Whereas the 41.3% decline in estradiol we observed is consistent with previous reports with letrozole (21, 22, 35), the compensatory rise in T was severalfold lower. Letrozole is more abundant than anastrozole in mouse brain tissue after systemic administration (36), providing a potential explanation for the more modest elevation in LH with anastrozole (31.4% compared with 335%) (35).
    This experiment shows that using arimidex with no significant increase in testosterone, and thus decreased aromatase activity, is what causes low concentrations of estrogen in target tissue which they explain is the cause of the insulin resistance.

    Don't be Doofus who can't read a whole sentence and pops 1mg arimidex whenever you see the bottle. You will crash your estrogen levels and get a host of side effects along with insulin resistance. But insulin resistance wont occur if you are keeping your estrogen levels within range, since the increased aromatase activity from the test will keep things working properly.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cousinmuscles View Post
    Since letrozole increases serum testosterone and LH at a much higher degree than Arimidex , they explain why no insulin resistance occured with that experiment:
    Whereas the 41.3% decline in estradiol we observed is consistent with previous reports with letrozole (21, 22, 35), the compensatory rise in T was severalfold lower. Letrozole is more abundant than anastrozole in mouse brain tissue after systemic administration (36), providing a potential explanation for the more modest elevation in LH with anastrozole (31.4% compared with 335%) (35).
    This experiment shows that using arimidex with no significant increase in testosterone, and thus decreased aromatase activity, is what causes low concentrations of estrogen in target tissue which they explain is the cause of the insulin resistance.
    For the sake of including that reference:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19050164
    RESULTS:
    Both in young and elderly men, active treatment significantly increased serum testosterone (+128 and +99%, respectively) and decreased estradiol levels (-41 and -62%, respectively). Fasting glucose and insulin levels decreased in young men after active intervention (-7 and -37%, respectively) compared with placebo.
    Only a ~100% increase of your natural testosterone production is enough to offset any possibility of aromatase inhibition causing you insulin resistance.

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    Great input gentlemen! Learn something new everyday.

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