Failed PCT? Low test after pct

Hey all,

Sorry for this common question.

I just finished the perfect pct protocol (clomid, nolva, gw501, cardarine, aromasin) after a 16 week test, deca, eq and drol cycle. I stopped the eq and deca two weeks prior to the end of the cycle and waited 2 weeks until starting pct.

I got a blood test done with one day remaining yesterday and the results show my test is 373, Lh is 0.2, fsh is 0.5. Estrogen is low.

Is this a sign of a failed PCT? Should I start up again or just give it time? I felt like shit for the first few weeks but feel okay now physically and mentally. My other results are messed up which is expected (lipid panel is not great, liver values are still elevated).


Background about me:

I'm 31 and a competitive Powerlifter. I'm 6'3, 232 right now. Elite deadlifter. I've been using steroids since fall 2014. I have not always been responsible and blasted and cruised for approximately one year. Never used hcg on any cycle I've done.

I accepted the risks of hrt when I started. My only fear is that I won't be able to have children.

To clarify, you went and got a blood test while on pct?

If you are still on a course of pct meds (nolva and clomid) your testosterone should be sky high. The reason it is not adviced to get a blood test until 6 to 8 weeks after pct is because your results will be too high due to the serms.

If i am correct and you were on pct when you had the test, one of two things imo.

- your use of gear has rendered you unable to produce testosterone again even through the use of serms

- you have been using low grade or fake pct meds.
The fact you mention cardarine suggests to me that you perhaps got your pct meds also off a research chemical site? Correct me if i am wrong please. But if this was the case, and you didnt use pharma grade pct then you might have been running caffeine pills for all you know.

My advice... if youre using anything other than pharmaceutical grade clomid/nolva. Retry the pct with pharma grade meds.

If you have been using pharma meds you can look into dr scallys pct protocol. It involves hcg, nolva and clomid. Its final attempt at restarting before trt.

Others will give their thoughts.

Best of luck to you mate hope things start gettinf better for you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gymrat702

Hey all,

Sorry for this common question.

I just finished the perfect pct protocol (clomid, nolva, gw501, cardarine, aromasin) after a 16 week test, deca, eq and drol cycle. I stopped the eq and deca two weeks prior to the end of the cycle and waited 2 weeks until starting pct.

I got a blood test done with one day remaining yesterday and the results show my test is 373, Lh is 0.2, fsh is 0.5. Estrogen is low.

Is this a sign of a failed PCT? Should I start up again or just give it time? I felt like shit for the first few weeks but feel okay now physically and mentally. My other results are messed up which is expected (lipid panel is not great, liver values are still elevated).


Background about me:

I'm 31 and a competitive Powerlifter. I'm 6'3, 232 right now. Elite deadlifter. I've been using steroids since fall 2014. I have not always been responsible and blasted and cruised for approximately one year. Never used hcg on any cycle I've done.

I accepted the risks of hrt when I started. My only fear is that I won't be able to have children.

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It takes time for your body to get back to normal. Give yourself 6 to 8 more weeks and get bloods done. You should see better numbers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollowedzeus

To clarify, you went and got a blood test while on pct?

If you are still on a course of pct meds (nolva and clomid) your testosterone should be sky high. The reason it is not adviced to get a blood test until 6 to 8 weeks after pct is because your results will be too high due to the serms.

If i am correct and you were on pct when you had the test, one of two things imo.

- your use of gear has rendered you unable to produce testosterone again even through the use of serms

- you have been using low grade or fake pct meds.
The fact you mention cardarine suggests to me that you perhaps got your pct meds also off a research chemical site? Correct me if i am wrong please. But if this was the case, and you didnt use pharma grade pct then you might have been running caffeine pills for all you know.

My advice... if youre using anything other than pharmaceutical grade clomid/nolva. Retry the pct with pharma grade meds.

If you have been using pharma meds you can look into dr scallys pct protocol. It involves hcg, nolva and clomid. Its final attempt at restarting before trt.

Others will give their thoughts.

Best of luck to you mate hope things start gettinf better for you

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Yes I did purchase my pct meds off the same research site. If my pct meds are fake or underdosed, why then would my estrogen be low (it is currently <5.0). Also, if my pct meds were fake does that essentially mean I went off cold turkey?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gymrat702

Yes I did purchase my pct meds off the same research site. If my pct meds are fake or underdosed, why then would my estrogen be low (it is currently <5.0). Also, if my pct meds were fake does that essentially mean I went off cold turkey?

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Im not saying they were fake but if they were yes you essentially just dropped the test and carried on as normal.

If you dont have much test in your system then there will be nothing to aromatise into estrogen.

Its a tricky situation to be in as you just dont know what was in those pills/liquids

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hollowedzeus

Im not saying they were fake but if they were yes you essentially just dropped the test and carried on as normal.

If you dont have much test in your system then there will be nothing to aromatise into estrogen.

Its a tricky situation to be in as you just dont know what was in those pills/liquids

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Well I will say I have run their cardarine and few times and have been disappointed as I never noticed any of the so called "endurance benefits" and my lipid panel did not benefit either. However, I took their aromasin and had a blood test done during cycle where my test was >1500 but my estrogen was within range at 12.1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gymrat702

Hey all,

Sorry for this common question.

I just finished the perfect pct protocol (clomid, nolva, gw501, cardarine, aromasin) after a 16 week test, deca, eq and drol cycle. I stopped the eq and deca two weeks prior to the end of the cycle and waited 2 weeks until starting pct.

I got a blood test done with one day remaining yesterday and the results show my test is 373, Lh is 0.2, fsh is 0.5. Estrogen is low.

Is this a sign of a failed PCT? Should I start up again or just give it time? I felt like shit for the first few weeks but feel okay now physically and mentally. My other results are messed up which is expected (lipid panel is not great, liver values are still elevated).


Background about me:

I'm 31 and a competitive Powerlifter. I'm 6'3, 232 right now. Elite deadlifter. I've been using steroids since fall 2014. I have not always been responsible and blasted and cruised for approximately one year. Never used hcg on any cycle I've done.

I accepted the risks of hrt when I started. My only fear is that I won't be able to have children.

---

Whats GW501?

Aromasin you are not supposed to take during PCT, but that probably doesnt matter cause you were taking deca.

Deca, nandrolone decanoate, is a very slow compound and unless you wait 5-6 weeks before PCT it is a wasted PCT. I have seen it numerous times in my bloodwork and in gym buddies bloods. Some pp are very sensitive to deca and it is a very supressing compound, a small amount can be enough to not let your HPTA recover.

In many labs deca will show up as testosterone, have seen bloodwork after 6 and even 8 weeks after last shot of deca with elevated test and LH and FSH alsmot zero.

Personally think that deca should only be taken by ppl in TRT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Whats GW501?

Aromasin you are not supposed to take during PCT, but that probably doesnt matter cause you were taking deca.

Deca, nandrolone decanoate, is a very slow compound and unless you wait 5-6 weeks before PCT it is a wasted PCT. I have seen it numerous times in my bloodwork and in gym buddies bloods. Some pp are very sensitive to deca and it is a very supressing compound, a small amount can be enough to not let your HPTA recover.

In many labs deca will show up as testosterone, have seen bloodwork after 6 and even 8 weeks after last shot of deca with elevated test and LH and FSH alsmot zero.

Personally think that deca should only be taken by ppl in TRT.

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Gw501516 is cardarin. I've read you are supposed to use an ai during pct to control estrogen rebound.

So you think I should wait or do pct again?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gymrat702

Gw501516 is cardarin. I've read you are supposed to use an ai during pct to control estrogen rebound.

So you think I should wait or do pct again?

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On what does estrogen rebounds? PCT time theres not a lot of testosterone to aromatize...

Your best shot is a Power PCT: 1000ui HCG EOD for 10 days, 3 days later the clomid 50mg + nolva 20mg combo for 1 month.

But how much time has passed since last shot of deca?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

On what does estrogen rebounds? PCT time theres not a lot of testosterone to aromatize...

Your best shot is a Power PCT: 1000ui HCG EOD for 10 days, 3 days later the clomid 50mg + nolva 20mg combo for 1 month.

But how much time has passed since last shot of deca?

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I haven't taken deca in 8 weeks.

PCT does NOT cure all blood levels......its to help "push" the body and system in a certain direction and make that initial 3 week cliff until the body kick starts back up to make it more bearable and expedite that possibly...... PCT is not guaranteed and some people never come back post cycle, ala TRT and HRT......

I think people need to realize the risks we take by doing this and how long it really takes the body to rejuvenate. I have seen guys it takes 2 full years to come back to normal levels, granted they were on a long heavy cycle.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MACKATTACK1

PCT does NOT cure all blood levels......its to help "push" the body and system in a certain direction and make that initial 3 week cliff until the body kick starts back up to make it more bearable and expedite that possibly...... PCT is not guaranteed and some people never come back post cycle, ala TRT and HRT......

I think people need to realize the risks we take by doing this and how long it really takes the body to rejuvenate. I have seen guys it takes 2 full years to come back to normal levels, granted they were on a long heavy cycle.....

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I understand that. Do you think I should just wait it out or do another pct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gymrat702

I understand that. Do you think I should just wait it out or do another pct?

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Wait it out.....give it 6-8 weeks, get blood work.....you ran a pretty long heavy cycle so it may take time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MACKATTACK1

PCT does NOT cure all blood levels......its to help "push" the body and system in a certain direction and make that initial 3 week cliff until the body kick starts back up to make it more bearable and expedite that possibly...... PCT is not guaranteed and some people never come back post cycle, ala TRT and HRT......

I think people need to realize the risks we take by doing this and how long it really takes the body to rejuvenate. I have seen guys it takes 2 full years to come back to normal levels, granted they were on a long heavy cycle.....

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Only thing PCT does is to try and kick start the HPTA.

Clearly in this case it has not done anything with an LH of 0.2 (which probably is <0.2), so basically if he doesnt repeat it its like he tries to recover without any PCT. If LH would be somewhere other than zero, I would agree with you, wait a bit more to see if the body responds, but with this values is better to try and do something.

** rant mode **

PCT is not a "cleanse"

** rant off **

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Only thing PCT does is to try and kick start the HPTA.

Clearly in this case it has not done anything with an LH of 0.2 (which probably is <0.2), so basically if he doesnt repeat it its like he tries to recover without any PCT. If LH would be somewhere other than zero, I would agree with you, wait a bit more to see if the body responds, but with this values is better to try and do something.

** rant mode **

PCT is not a "cleanse"

** rant off **

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Actually my LH is 0.2 not <0.2 not that it makes a big difference.


I was advised by someone that pct doesn't necessarily result in the immediate elevation of the test, lh and fsh and that you have to wait until 4 weeks after pct to get accurate results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gymrat702

Actually my LH is 0.2 not <0.2 not that it makes a big difference.


I was advised by someone that pct doesn't necessarily result in the immediate elevation of the test, lh and fsh and that you have to wait until 4 weeks after pct to get accurate results.

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It may not result in testosterone elevation, but it needs to raise LH and FSH, more importantly LH. Clomid has in immediate response by the pituitary in a healthy system.

If your testis respond to the elevated LH thats another subject.

In your case either the meds are bunk, or something is blocking the system. Most likely nandrolone is blocking it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

It may not result in testosterone elevation, but it needs to raise LH and FSH, more importantly LH. Clomid has in immediate response by the pituitary in a healthy system.

If your testis respond to the elevated LH thats another subject.

In your case either the meds are bunk, or something is blocking the system. Most likely nandrolone is blocking it.

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So you think I should wait a few weeks or immediately start another pct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gymrat702

So you think I should wait a few weeks or immediately start another pct?

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Start another PCT

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Your best shot is a Power PCT: 1000ui HCG EOD for 10 days, 3 days later the clomid 50mg + nolva 20mg combo for 1 month.

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This ^^^

Update: Alright so I had blood work yesterday which is two weeks from my last test. I know I should have waited but I was impatient.

Results- test went up slightly to 377 which is not technically low test but is lower than my pre steroid level of 563.

Lh went from 0.2 to 0.1

Fsh went from 0.5 to 0.4.


My libido is non existent but I have maintained my strength and am actually getting stronger.

Seem like I am destined for trt? Why is my test level in range but my lh and fsh are low?

Do you think I could ever have kids or am I screwed? That's honestly the only thing I'm really concerned about. Im 31.

Should I wait longer or see a doctor?

So, what have you done from the advice given above?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

So, what have you done from the advice given above?

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I was told to wait by a few people which is what I did.

Why would my test level be in range (albeit on the low end) but my lh and fsh are low? Isn't secondary hypogonadism when you have low test, low fh and low fsh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gymrat702

I was told to wait by a few people which is what I did.

Why would my test level be in range (albeit on the low end) but my lh and fsh are low? Isn't secondary hypogonadism when you have low test, low fh and low fsh?

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Bloodwork can read read deca as testosterone. With LH at 0.1 you are not producing any testosterone.

Steroids induced hypogonadism can only be established when your testosterone goes even lower.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Bloodwork can read read deca as testosterone. With LH at 0.1 you are not producing any testosterone.

Steroids induced hypogonadism can only be established when your testosterone goes even lower.

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Its been at least 10 weeks since my last deca shot. What would have caused my test to rise slightly from 373 to 377 in two weeks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gymrat702

Its been at least 10 weeks since my last deca shot. What would have caused my test to rise slightly from 373 to 377 in two weeks?

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Blood work error tolerance is much bigger than that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Blood work error tolerance is much bigger than that.

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What do you mean?

Why would deca still be showing as increased test levels after 10 weeks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gymrat702

What do you mean?

Why would deca still be showing as increased test levels after 10 weeks?

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Deca is slow. Some type of blood work tests will read nandrolone molecules as testosterone, that is a fact. Same as some will read trenbolone molecules as estradiol.