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Thread: Wrapping up first cycle. Continuation questions

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    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    Wrapping up first cycle. Continuation questions

    I'm 4 weeks out from my first cycle being over(it will be total 20 weeks) and had a quick question. I went pretty light with it breaking down like this:

    1-20: 250mg sustanon /wk
    1-4: 20mg dbol /day
    10-20: 250 deca /wk

    I'm male/27/165 and have seen minimal side effects if any. I'm already prone to a little acne so it might just be that. Basically I was wondering if I need to come off necessarily and do a pct. I've seen decent increases in size/strength but I know the 250 of test a week is what most people run as a trt or a cruise amount. I have the materials required to run my next 20 week cycle basically

    1-10: dbol 20/day
    1-20: test cyp 500/wk
    1-20 masteron 250/wk

    And I have access to Adex and nolva AZ its needed but masteron is is anti estrogenic from my understanding and I was considering just going straight into it. Would this be viable or do I need to spend a month or two off?

  2. #2
    Couchlockd's Avatar
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    mast competes with estrogen or something it don't stop aromatase activity,,it may blunt it, but not prevent.

    get adex

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    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    Ok but what about my main question? Is the break necessary or can I just switch compounds and increase doses?

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    Couchlockd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalThoughts View Post
    Ok but what about my main question? Is the break necessary or can I just switch compounds and increase doses?
    Well technically you can do whatever you like is the blast and cruise the healthiest thing you can do no it's not

    The thing is is you need to clear your receptors, even if you drop down to a 200 mg a week dose of testosterone that would help clear but if you just start switching of compounds and keep things almost at the same level you're going to reach a point of diminishing returns for the juice is not worth the squeeze

    If you're under 35 I really think you should PCT I mean I'm going to blast and cruise but I'm on trt so I'm just going to drop down to a trt dose for 8 weeks and then blast test and Primo again now the pan PCT I did come back with better Testo levels, but I'm talking 20 to 30 points which really don't mean Jack schitt yeah I recovered so I don't know

    Basically I'm not going to tell you what's best because I don't know I'm not a doctor I'm just telling you my experience and I even have reservations about blasting and cruising and my test levels are are lower than shit if I was young I wouldn't even be doing steroids

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalThoughts View Post
    Ok but what about my main question? Is the break necessary or can I just switch compounds and increase doses?
    When you suppress your natural production of hormones so such a long time there's a chance that they won't start back up naturally. If your body can't start the production of natural Testosterone your sperm count will drop or be practically be non-existent. This may be an issue if you want to have children in the future. My recommendation would be to 12 week cycles with a full PCT. Keep your natural hormone glands active so your HPTA can run in "normal" mode when you are not on a cycle. You're still young, having muscles may not be the end goal of your life.

  6. #6
    cousinmuscles's Avatar
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    You haven't done your research and that cycle looks horrible. 10 weeks of dianabol is excessive. A TRT dose is 80-100mg per week. 250mg test is too low for a cycle. That cycle is too long. Deca takes a very long time to get out of your system, even one single injection will be suppressive for a month - several repeated injections will take longer.

    Have you done your PCT yet? AI, HCG ? Bloods?

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    Eduke93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalThoughts View Post
    I'm 4 weeks out from my first cycle being over(it will be total 20 weeks) and had a quick question. I went pretty light with it breaking down like this:

    1-20: 250mg sustanon /wk
    1-4: 20mg dbol /day
    10-20: 250 deca /wk

    I'm male/27/165 and have seen minimal side effects if any. I'm already prone to a little acne so it might just be that. Basically I was wondering if I need to come off necessarily and do a pct. I've seen decent increases in size/strength but I know the 250 of test a week is what most people run as a trt or a cruise amount. I have the materials required to run my next 20 week cycle basically

    1-10: dbol 20/day
    1-20: test cyp 500/wk
    1-20 masteron 250/wk

    And I have access to Adex and nolva AZ its needed but masteron is is anti estrogenic from my understanding and I was considering just going straight into it. Would this be viable or do I need to spend a month or two off?
    Completely your decision, obviously advisable to come off... but it depends on what you want to do. You know the possible side effects of not coming off/long cycles right?

    Your initial cycle on here wasn't great, 20mg dbol isn't the greatest of doses and starting deca for 10 weeks, 10 weeks in, deca should really be used for around 15 weeks to see its full effects. You could have definitely done much better with thees drugs if you had spent more time researching...

    As advised above, 250mg cruise is still super-physiological levels, you will not be giving your body a break by using this dose. drop it down to 150 per week, this is a "healthier" TRT/Cruise dose.

    Also, id recommend bumping up the dbol to 40mg a day, if your going to use it, you may as well use it.

    My advice, come off, recover.. get blood work... when your body is ready, start your next run.

  8. #8
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    how tall are you?

    you say you are 165 after a 20 week cycle, curious as to the height?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooseman33 View Post
    how tall are you?

    you say you are 165 after a 20 week cycle, curious as to the height?
    better be easy e height 5'3"
    70rs likes this.

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    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Unless you're making a living in the fitness industry come off and run pct. You're 27 and I'd assume would like to have endogenous test and spermatogenesis production in the future.
    -*- NO SOURCE CHECKS -*-

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    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mooseman33 View Post
    how tall are you?

    you say you are 165 after a 20 week cycle, curious as to the height?
    5'6"

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    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    So I appreciate all of the help/advice. I ran the decade late because I didn't have access right away and the cycle was overseen by an associate of mine that I trust and who has been involved in AAS for a long time. It looks like I'll come off on Pct in a few weeks and readjust my cycle. Thanks all!

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    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    As well my gains were mostly in strength, not nearly as much in size

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalThoughts View Post
    As well my gains were mostly in strength, not nearly as much in size
    I'm your height. I'm 35.

    after 12 weeks on test 500/week and 400 mast/week I gained from 145 to 175.

    mind you a teeny bit of fat.

    but with deca and dbol you should have blown up.

    what did your 1rm bench go to?
    and other lifts?

    just curious wantvto help you with diet and possible training

  15. #15
    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle View Post
    I'm your height. I'm 35.

    after 12 weeks on test 500/week and 400 mast/week I gained from 145 to 175.

    mind you a teeny bit of fat.

    but with deca and dbol you should have blown up.

    what did your 1rm bench go to?
    and other lifts?

    just curious wantvto help you with diet and possible training

    My 1rm bench went from 180 to 260
    For ohp from around 95 to 135
    And squat from 150 to 250(I negelected legs before cycle do to me having a job where I climbed 300ft ladders)
    Deadlift from 225 to 290

    I ate 3000 calories a day trying to hit 180 grams of protein

    I was around 165 before cycle started on and saw massive fat loss and got down to 150 and back up to 165

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalThoughts View Post
    I'm 4 weeks out from my first cycle being over(it will be total 20 weeks) and had a quick question. I went pretty light with it breaking down like this:

    1-20: 250mg sustanon /wk
    1-4: 20mg dbol /day
    10-20: 250 deca /wk

    I'm male/27/165 and have seen minimal side effects if any. I'm already prone to a little acne so it might just be that. Basically I was wondering if I need to come off necessarily and do a pct. I've seen decent increases in size/strength but I know the 250 of test a week is what most people run as a trt or a cruise amount. I have the materials required to run my next 20 week cycle basically

    1-10: dbol 20/day
    1-20: test cyp 500/wk
    1-20 masteron 250/wk

    And I have access to Adex and nolva AZ its needed but masteron is is anti estrogenic from my understanding and I was considering just going straight into it. Would this be viable or do I need to spend a month or two off?
    I like that you went 20 weeks cause IMO that's a real cycle length. 15-20 weeks. 12 weeks is too short IMO.

    And I like that you used very low dosages which IMO is smart because the idea is to get the most out of the least amount of gear.

    Yes 250mg of Test is considered low, but I made some great gains on Trt levels of Test so I know first hand that one can make nice gains on low levels of exo Test if your training and diet is on point.

    What I would've done differently is not added in deca so late. You would've been better off starting them together and ending the deca early to prepare for PCT.

    As far as staying on the dbol for 10 weeks, it's not advisable, but I'll be honest with you and the truth is MANY people stay on orals (rotating them of course) for long past 10 weeks at a time. The idea is keeping an eye on your liver enzymes because with most people, 20 mgs of dbol daily will barely increase their liver enzymes, if at all. So assuming you're a healthy individual, it would take excessive doses of orals for an extended period of time to cause any lasting damage. The liver is unbelievably resilient and can go from stage 4 liver disease to 100% healthy in a matter of days. I'm not saying to abuse orals and bank on your liver regenerating, I'm just saying one doesn't have to be afraid of running dbol for more than 4 weeks assuming they're on top of their blood work.

    I'm curious to know what kinds of gains you made on that cycle.... And I'd also like to know your current weight..

    The way you run compounds should really depend on what your goals are. Every thing done in regards to drug use should be done with a clear purpose in mind.

    Newbies tend to fall into this cookie cutter approach to cycling steroids . I personally feel there's much more to it and depending on your short term AND long term goals, there are many factors to consider.

    *I should add that just because your liver enzymes are within range doesn't mean you're in the clear. You still want to keep an eye on your blood lipids as orals tend to have a massive impact on them. That's the main reason I personally use them sparingly..
    Last edited by AlphaMindz; 05-21-2018 at 01:02 PM.

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    Couchlockd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalThoughts View Post
    My 1rm bench went from 180 to 260
    For ohp from around 95 to 135
    And squat from 150 to 250(I negelected legs before cycle do to me having a job where I climbed 300ft ladders)
    Deadlift from 225 to 290

    I ate 3000 calories a day trying to hit 180 grams of protein

    I was around 165 before cycle started on and saw massive fat loss and got down to 150 and back up to 165
    so you don't have any real solid training experience, correct?

  18. #18
    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    Off and on for years, but I spent a good 5-6 years contracting so I had runs of a few months at a time where I could spend alot of time weightlifting until recently. I spent 2 years in football in high school and spent 4 years in the army however so exercising/fitness isnt completely foreign to me

  19. #19
    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    I like that you went 20 weeks cause IMO that's a real cycle length. 15-20 weeks. 12 weeks is too short IMO.

    And I like that you used very low dosages which IMO is smart because the idea is to get the most out of the least amount of gear.

    Yes 250mg of Test is considered low, but I made some great gains on Trt levels of Test so I know first hand that one can make nice gains on low levels of exo Test if your training and diet is on point.

    What I would've done differently is not added in deca so late. You would've been better off starting them together and ending the deca early to prepare for PCT.

    As far as staying on the dbol for 10 weeks, it's not advisable, but I'll be honest with you and the truth is MANY people stay on orals (rotating them of course) for long past 10 weeks at a time. The idea is keeping an eye on your liver enzymes because with most people, 20 mgs of dbol daily will barely increase their liver enzymes, if at all. So assuming you're a healthy individual, it would take excessive doses of orals for an extended period of time to cause any lasting damage. The liver is unbelievably resilient and can go from stage 4 liver disease to 100% healthy in a matter of days. I'm not saying to abuse orals and bank on your liver regenerating, I'm just saying one doesn't have to be afraid of running dbol for more than 4 weeks assuming they're on top of their blood work.

    I'm curious to know what kinds of gains you made on that cycle.... And I'd also like to know your current weight..

    The way you run compounds should really depend on what your goals are. Every thing done in regards to drug use should be done with a clear purpose in mind.

    Newbies tend to fall into this cookie cutter approach to cycling steroids . I personally feel there's much more to it and depending on your short term AND long term goals, there are many factors to consider.

    *I should add that just because your liver enzymes are within range doesn't mean you're in the clear. You still want to keep an eye on your blood lipids as orals tend to have a massive impact on them. That's the main reason I personally use them sparingly..
    Yeah mostly my idea was to see how my body would respond and to introduce myself to the pinning and care that went along with it. Also I know the deca came in late but I didn't have access right away and I felt the 250 test wasn't doing as much as it could be. I read several places that deca has low side effects so I figured I would introduce that rather than just up the test

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    Couchlockd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalThoughts View Post
    Yeah mostly my idea was to see how my body would respond and to introduce myself to the pinning and care that went along with it. Also I know the deca came in late but I didn't have access right away and I felt the 250 test wasn't doing as much as it could be. I read several places that deca has low side effects so I figured I would introduce that rather than just up the test
    how can you be benching 180 with you're previous gym time.

    I'm going to go out on limb and say this;

    you don't really know what your doing as far as training. you may be moving metal up and down, but are not in tune to mind muscle connection and focus. do you know what taking a set to true failure feels like?

    at 150-165 lbs prior to cycle with your height you should be repping 185 like 15 + times

    here's s girl that's 25 years old from my gym. she's 130 lbs

    Attachment 172899
    Attachment 172900

    she hit that 185 for 2 sets of 12, after 1 set of 225 for 5

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    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    You probably wouldn't be too wrong. Aside from limited gym time my diet was super bad(do to contracting and living in and out of hotels) until recently. In terms of workout knowledge and diet I've made huge leaps in knowledge over just the last 6-7 months and I've been tracking calories seriously about the same length of time. I mostly did simple workouts as well with basic 3x5 for compounds and 3x10 for a couple of accessories but now I do a variation of Jim Wendlers 5/3/1

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalThoughts View Post
    You probably wouldn't be too wrong. Aside from limited gym time my diet was super bad(do to contracting and living in and out of hotels) until recently. In terms of workout knowledge and diet I've made huge leaps in knowledge over just the last 6-7 months and I've been tracking calories seriously about the same length of time. I mostly did simple workouts as well with basic 3x5 for compounds and 3x10 for a couple of accessories but now I do a variation of Jim Wendlers 5/3/1
    what made you think steroids were your answer to making shit diet, sleep, and less than basic workout routines build muscle?

  23. #23
    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FinalThoughts View Post
    Would this be viable or do I need to spend a month or two off?
    Not viable if you want good chances of not having steroids induced hypogonadism.

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    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    It wasn't the answer to those. I fixed my diet and got serious about my workout for a few months before and was seeing good progress. I maybe could have gone longer without them but I have a stable job now, a good income, and a knowledgeable source for both the AAS and the pct drugs so I figured why not? I'm not interested all that much in kids due to personal reasons though I'm not interested in sterility either. My endocrine system is done developing and my girlfriend is supportive. I didn't see a reason not to. I understand the risks and am constantly improving my situation, my technique, and myself

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    god speed to you.

    just remember, your not even making what's considered good gains for a natty lifter, and youre injecting and injesting the bathroom sink worth of drugs.
    .time to re-evaluate your goals and or safety.
    cousinmuscles likes this.

  26. #26
    FinalThoughts is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by m.hornbuckle View Post
    god speed to you.

    just remember, your not even making what's considered good gains for a natty lifter, and youre injecting and injesting the bathroom sink worth of drugs.
    .time to re-evaluate your goals and or safety.
    I hear you and I do appreciate the honesty and help.

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