Anti-estrogens

**sleepstalker** · 05-26-2018, 12:32 PM

Hey everyone, I am aware that the body requires a certain level of healthy estrogen, but say after one does a blood panel and finds that their estrogen is high. Would taking an antiestrogen help with recovery or fatloss? I am aware that supraphysiological levels of test causes muscle growth which is a reason for fatloss, more muscle more mitochondria. But if someone with a high enough bodyfat 20+ was using anti-estrogens how would that effect their body? Again not to eradicate estrogen but lower it the normal range.

**Quester** · 05-26-2018, 02:25 PM

At 20+, your body is converting more to estrogen than had you followed the guidelines of being of lower body fat % before even doing a cycle. You definitely need an AI. AT 20+ you are definitely much more prone to negative effects from estrogen, like bitch tits. Also, Test isn't for fat loss. The fat loss that occurs is not profound enough to make it worth while for that purpose, especially when one considers the negatives associated with cycling with high BF%. Drop the cycle and lose the weight first. Hope this helps...

**cousinmuscles** · 05-26-2018, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by sleepstalker

Hey everyone, I am aware that the body requires a certain level of healthy estrogen, but say after one does a blood panel and finds that their estrogen is high. Would taking an antiestrogen help with recovery or fatloss? I am aware that supraphysiological levels of test causes muscle growth which is a reason for fatloss, more muscle more mitochondria. But if someone with a high enough bodyfat 20+ was using anti-estrogens how would that effect their body? Again not to eradicate estrogen but lower it the normal range.

You have me wondering what you mean. You want estrogen to be within physiological range and preferably at a level where you feel your libido is at its highest.

You would have to build A LOT of muscle to increase your metabolism. But that doesn't mean fat loss, that means increase in calories to maintain the muscle.

As Quester said test is not for fat loss.

The reason you want estrogen in normal range is because of the negative effects of high estrogen.

**Quester** · 05-26-2018, 03:58 PM

Cousin,
weird thing is, the hard way is often the easy way in disguise.

**dcycles** · 05-26-2018, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Quester

Cousin,
weird thing is, the hard way is often the easy way in disguise.

That's deep bro

**sleepstalker** · 05-26-2018, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by Quester

At 20+, your body is converting more to estrogen than had you followed the guidelines of being of lower body fat % before even doing a cycle. You definitely need an AI. AT 20+ you are definitely much more prone to negative effects from estrogen, like bitch tits. Also, Test isn't for fat loss. The fat loss that occurs is not profound enough to make it worth while for that purpose, especially when one considers the negatives associated with cycling with high BF%. Drop the cycle and lose the weight first. Hope this helps...

Thanks for the reply. I didn't mean to suggest taking test when cutting at such a high bodyfat percentage. I am aware that wouldn't be good. I was more curious of the positive effects of an AI when a dude is cutting at 20+ %$ bodyfat. Meaning staying natty but using an AI to combat the overwhelming hormonal estrogen secretion from the very high bodyfat percentage.

**Dannyboy51577** · 05-27-2018, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by sleepstalker

Thanks for the reply. I didn't mean to suggest taking test when cutting at such a high bodyfat percentage. I am aware that wouldn't be good. I was more curious of the positive effects of an AI when a dude is cutting at 20+ %$ bodyfat. Meaning staying natty but using an AI to combat the overwhelming hormonal estrogen secretion from the very high bodyfat percentage.

Ok, he is asking about using an ai when not on cycle- to combat high estrogen levels whoch could be contributing to excess weight.

First, you would need to actually have blood pulled to see what your estrogen level is. Generally the body does a very good job on its own of maintaining correct or close to correct levels. Provided all your hardware is working, your body will follow its own feedback loop in detecting your estrogen levels, and in turn your test production.
The problem is that a natty person will not have high enough test levels to convert as much to estrogen as quickly as a person on cycle. So if you took an ai, it will inhibit aromatization, but your body would not be able to keep up on its own to your constant ai use, and in short time you would crash your estrogen. And for a natty it would take a much longer period of time -because of limited test in the body-to aromatize enough to bring levels back to normal.
And low e is just as bad as high e in many regards. Its not something people hadnt thought of before, its just that it doesnt work the way you would think, because you are not going to be carrying enough estrogen to warrant ai use, unless theres a medical condition

**sleepstalker** · 05-27-2018, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Dannyboy51577

Ok, he is asking about using an ai when not on cycle- to combat high estrogen levels whoch could be contributing to excess weight.

First, you would need to actually have blood pulled to see what your estrogen level is. Generally the body does a very good job on its own of maintaining correct or close to correct levels. Provided all your hardware is working, your body will follow its own feedback loop in detecting your estrogen levels, and in turn your test production.
The problem is that a natty person will not have high enough test levels to convert as much to estrogen as quickly as a person on cycle. So if you took an ai, it will inhibit aromatization, but your body would not be able to keep up on its own to your constant ai use, and in short time you would crash your estrogen. And for a natty it would take a much longer period of time -because of limited test in the body-to aromatize enough to bring levels back to normal.
And low e is just as bad as high e in many regards. Its not something people hadnt thought of before, its just that it doesnt work the way you would think, because you are not going to be carrying enough estrogen to warrant ai use, unless theres a medical condition

I see makes sense. Thank you very much. I will followup with a Endocrinologist as far as a future blood panel. Too bad, I thought it would be like a back door or something. It just a hard pill to swallow that there is nothing new going on in respect to bodybuilding chemicals. SARMs are on their way out, Steroids are too harsh, Peptides bubble guts and $$$. For now I am natty and I have spoken to some VERY smart people and they said that herbs, omega fatty acids and the correct diet is highly underrated. I agree when they laid it out from a molecular biology perspective. However some of us may never feel "normal" unless we see ourselves the way we want. As I said its a hard pill to swallow.

**Quester** · 05-27-2018, 03:29 PM

I like deep-thinking and problem solving. Unfortunately, Danny is right. And, estrogen isn't as big a culprit for fat creation as the people who advocate a very-low estrogen count while cycling suggest.
You can take some of the fatloss stuff but I think effects (not side effects but main effects) are more uncomfortable than eating right and exercising the normal way.
Good luck!

**Dannyboy51577** · 05-27-2018, 07:39 PM

The only thing ive found thats an in between which helped me when i wanted to get back going again was t3 and clen for a bit of shaping and a bit if fat loss. Its not for everybody bit for me was somewhat effective in addition to a few diet changes and even a decent workoit protocol. Just kind of that little kick in the butt that got me over the hump. Othe than that, yeah Quester is right, too.many of those fat loss drugs make you feel shittier than u did before u used them

**sleepstalker** · 05-29-2018, 02:17 PM

You both are right. The only two compounds I wish were safer were Cardarine and DNP . Cardarine I hear good things but its on its way out even though its not a sarm and one doesnt know what they are getting. As for DNP, I know its considered the ultimate evil as in its abused but what about ultra low doses like 50 mg or less? That has no effect on the metabolism when its supposed to raise the metabolism by like 60%? Also I am aware there is a dosege issue as in one can't verify whoever or wherever one is getting it, who knows what in amount one is is putting in one tablet or cap. One could think their getting one thing but their getting alot more. Then they croak.

Oh well, staying natty I guess for now.