just over 3 weeks on HGH, sore finger joints, swelling in feet, need some advice!

[kaps82]

Hi,

I am new to this platform but the forum has helped answer quite a lot of my questions over the past few months so never really had to post. But there're a couple of questions I haven't found answers for yet & was really hoping to get some good advice here today.

I'd been on 4iu HGH (Genotropin) e.d. for just under 3 weeks (never done AAS or GH before in my life), & I noticed swelling in my feet although with very little pain, but it did scare me to see my feet swelled. I spoke to my doctor who recommended reducing the dose by half i.e. 2iu instead of 4iu from the next day. The next day when i got up the swelling was gone, but I still went for the reduced dose & continued for 3 days. The doctor then asked me to go back to 4iu which was yesterday & i had swelling in my feet again in the evening. So from this morning on I've again gone for 2iu & i think i am going to continue with that for a while now.

Apart from this, I've been experiencing stiffness in my shoulder joints & fingers right after getting up in the morning. Shoulder pain feels like rotator cuff injury though mild & disappears after a while but as far as my fingers are concerned, i am not able to close my fist with the same strength as before & its a little inconvenient, that's all. My pulse is also slightly higher than what it should be (around 85).

I am 36, been lifting for almost 22 years now, never used any gear ever, (I don't intend to use AAS anyway for the health risks it involves). But over the past few years I've not been able to make any gains at all, in fact I've had injuries constantly viz. rotator cuff, wrist, tennis elbow, biceps tendinitis over the last 5 years due to lifting heavy. I don't really intend to get too much bigger than what i am at the moment but all i want is a little muscle gain, overall increase in strength, strong and healthy bones & connecting tissues in the long run, cause i can't imagine life without lifting. So after a thorough research I decided to go for HGH.

Now my questions are:


How long should i continue with 2iu ed before switching back to 4iu?
is 2iu worth it, would it still help me with what i want to achieve i.e. strength, strong bones & connecting tissues & muscle gain over let's say a period of 3 months?
the side effects like, joint pain (fingers, elbows & shoulders), HBP, higher pulse & water retention, will they go on their own in sometime & should i just persevere & carry on taking my regular dose or should i discontinue it completely. I really don't want any long term chronic pains for the sake of gaining strength & increasing muscle mass.
Finally, are there any withdrawal symptoms i.e. will my body be able to produce its own GH like before after i've discontinued taking exogenous GH.

sorry for such a long read but i wanted to put as much detail as possible to get some objective advice.

Thanks in advance :-)

[kaps82]

Hi all,

Maybe i am thinking too much & i shouldn't, but i posted this on another forum as well where I've had some helpful response but i still haven't found the answers to all my questions....so really hoping to get some help here....

[MACKATTACK]

The FIRST problem is you started at too HIGH of a dosage........... 4iu of Pharm Grade Genotropin is entirely too much to start at especially for a first timer.

Back it down to 1iu for a week, let the body stable out, then work up to 1.5iu then 2iu, then 2.5 iu.......etc

The side effects are specifically due to the dosage you started at. Always pyramid up.

I shoot all first thing in the morning. I have done a split dosage daily also and I see no difference.

You will have NO withdrawal symptoms.

[kaps82]

oh such a relief to hear there'd be no withdrawal symptoms, but now i am on 2iu since last 3 days, do you suggest i should continue with 2iu atleast for a week to see if the sides subsides on their own. The swelling is not as bad as it was when it happened for the first time, but i do have sore joints (shoulders & left elbow & inside of my wrists & fingers) in the morning, the shoulders & elbow pain goes away within 30 minutes but the finger joints are sore throughout the day.

[MACKATTACK]

Back it down to 1iu for a week. It won't hurt you and sides will subside faster.

[kaps82]

brilliant, many thanks :-)

[Ashop]

oh such a relief to hear there'd be no withdrawal symptoms, but now i am on 2iu since last 3 days, do you suggest i should continue with 2iu atleast for a week to see if the sides subsides on their own. The swelling is not as bad as it was when it happened for the first time, but i do have sore joints (shoulders & left elbow & inside of my wrists & fingers) in the morning, the shoulders & elbow pain goes away within 30 minutes but the finger joints are sore throughout the day.

With real pharma HGH you can get decent results with only 2iu. That's all I'm using currently and I'm leaner and tighter than ever.

[ScotchGuard02]

Run 2iu/ed for 10 days and increase by 1iu/ed by every 10 days.

[kaps82]

Many thanks, i’ll do exactly that:-)

[michael30]

Many thanks, i’ll do exactly that:-)

The above advice is good. If you can afford it go with the 4ius. Also if you have high blood pressure problems while running your hgh then you 100% should start taking telmisartan (generic name micardis) it is a blood pressure med that actually doesnt have all the crappy side effects that most do. It also has a bunch of really good qualities as well. I highly recommend you google it. I take it myself. I am also on a forum where there are ALOT of competitive bodybuilders and most all that have mild to moderate blood pressure issues use Telmisartan. Google it and see what you think. *on a side note i take 4ius and the bloat should leave after you have been on for awhile. The slower you raise your dose the less your sides will be.

[kaps82]

thanks, I'll do some research on that....but just a quick question, I've heard once you start taking BP medication you can't come off it, if that's true then I'd prefer to stay away from that.

[kaps82]

another thing guys & this may sound like a daft question but i just want to be sure i am doing the right thing. My last pfizer genotropin pen finished yesterday so i mixed the two chambers & almost primed the new one yesterday except that i realized later i had no more pins, so i put it back in the refrigerator & screwed the pin on it this morning. It was clear liquid before i screwed the pin with just one air bubble but right after I put the pin on i could see the pen filled with small air bubbles just like you'd see in any aerated drink/ sparkling water & i could see drops of GH coming out of the needle.

Can I still continue to use it or has it gone bad??

[MACKATTACK]

thanks, I'll do some research on that....but just a quick question, I've heard once you start taking BP medication you can't come off it, if that's true then I'd prefer to stay away from that.

Don’t start with more meds. Take a little baby aspirin daily and see how that helps. Start small then go up to strong BP meds. U taking any natural supplements like fish oil, daily Vitamin.....etc

[kaps82]

thanks

[kaps82]

Hi all,

I am now on it for over 3 months, still running at 2iu. My strength hasn't gone up, i have muscular pain just over my knees, so i can't squat properly, my grip has been week ever since i started but the soreness in my finger joints has now alleviated, i do have little pain my shoulders & fingers right after i get up but that goes away in minutes.

My concern is, i can't see a major increase in my muscle mass, the little increase i do see can be owed to the intense workout I've been doing as i feel psychologically stronger (perhaps placebo). Apart from this, i still have that baby fat around my belly for which i really went for it.

My trainer's been asking me to add anavar or dbol to gain strength & size, but my doc is not in the favour of steroids at all.

So my question is should i still continue with HGH, if yes for how long & when will i get to see any big changes in my body composition. Also, is taking 2iu a day, merely a waste of money or will it help in any way.

Thanks guys.

[Windex]

Hi all,

I am now on it for over 3 months, still running at 2iu. My strength hasn't gone up, i have muscular pain just over my knees, so i can't squat properly, my grip has been week ever since i started but the soreness in my finger joints has now alleviated, i do have little pain my shoulders & fingers right after i get up but that goes away in minutes.

My concern is, i can't see a major increase in my muscle mass, the little increase i do see can be owed to the intense workout I've been doing as i feel psychologically stronger (perhaps placebo). Apart from this, i still have that baby fat around my belly for which i really went for it.

My trainer's been asking me to add anavar or dbol to gain strength & size, but my doc is not in the favour of steroids at all.

So my question is should i still continue with HGH, if yes for how long & when will i get to see any big changes in my body composition. Also, is taking 2iu a day, merely a waste of money or will it help in any way.

Thanks guys.

"Waste of money" is pretty subjective, but HGH is moreso a year-round addition that compliments cycling.

Comparing cycle gains va HGH is apples to oranges. 3 months is a very short time, typically 6-12months is where the bigger benefits are seen. 2IU is also not going to create a huge physique change.

2IU is small dose, as you go up in IU down goes the bank account. Really just depends at the end of the day how much disposable income you have. If you want the most gains for the smallest $$$ investment then cycling wins every time.


As far as dbol and anavar, both of those need to be run with Testosterone and shouldn't be run alone.

What were your expectations when starting HGH ? Have you cycled steroids before and if so what was the history ? Seems like you didn't research enough before hand.

[kaps82]

Hi Windex,

I've had a few injuries in the past couple of years, including Bicipital Tendinosis, impingement in my right shoulder, ligament injury in my wrist, etc. All of these caused due to my work out, so my doctor who's also a friend now, suggested me to try HGH i.e. when i asked him if i could go for steroids , so to answer your question, i have never in my life tried steroids but I've been working out for over 15 years now.

All I wanted was to have stronger bones and connecting tissues & perhaps a slightly better body composition as i was expecting it to help me cut down my fat as well. Apart from this, an increase in strength over time, but i seriously thought 3 months would show me some significant results, given my workout is quite intense.

In all fairness, my doc did recommend me to go with a min of 4iu, but i'd to halve the dose within 3 weeks as i couldn't handle the sides (swelling in my ankle, feet, sore joints, etc.)

I also expect to get permanent muscle gains from HGH i.e. whatever little gains i am able to achieve while on it. Maybe i should stick around for another 3 months then.

[Chicagotarsier]

First and worst...

Do not do HGH everyday. That is the biggest mistake people make.4 on 1 off is fine. Most doctors familiar will say 5 days a week. The reason is obvious.

Doctors will also tell you twice a day dosing. The difference in IGF spike between 8iu and 4iu is not very much. The total IGF released is 40 percent more for 2 x 4iu shots than a single 8iu shot. BB theory prevailing is your spike has to occur at a time that is in connection with your workout completion time. There is no scientific evidence for this theory other than...this is what we do...

I digress. A day off HGH each week is required to combat side effects. Also diet reduces the impact. Reduce salts and mushrooms and any dietary item that would inflame gout in a person. This is what helped me the most to combat the sides.

[waltr64]

Did you have your IGF levels tested before going on HGH? I had a long talk with my TRT doc when I was in my 40's and he told me he does not prescribe it until a person needs it because it can totally shout down your pituitary gland and if that happens there is no way to start it again. Unlike Test where Clomid and HCG and restart the testis. I now take HGH and 4 iu's per day because I have heart failure and it has slowed it's progress so it is great stuff but I have been told I will need to stay on it the rest of my life along with HCG and T4. I also put my 78 year old mom on it and she healed from a broken hip in record time but she will also need to keep taking it. I find 2 days on 1 day off works well and help reduce the cost a bit. I guess my other question is why did you start with HGH when steroids offer much faster and better response to building muscle?

[kaps82]

First and worst...

Do not do HGH everyday. That is the biggest mistake people make.4 on 1 off is fine. Most doctors familiar will say 5 days a week. The reason is obvious.

Doctors will also tell you twice a day dosing. The difference in IGF spike between 8iu and 4iu is not very much. The total IGF released is 40 percent more for 2 x 4iu shots than a single 8iu shot. BB theory prevailing is your spike has to occur at a time that is in connection with your workout completion time. There is no scientific evidence for this theory other than...this is what we do...

I digress. A day off HGH each week is required to combat side effects. Also diet reduces the impact. Reduce salts and mushrooms and any dietary item that would inflame gout in a person. This is what helped me the most to combat the sides.

This was really helpful, one question though - now that i've been on this ed for over 3 months now, is it ok for me to take one day off in a week now?

i am planning to stay on it for another 2 months. My doc infact has given a go ahead for deca on a low dose for the next 8 weeks if i want, but i'd need some research and advice on this before i decide to go for it.

With Deca, 100mg a week, which is what i am planning, can there be any nasty side effects, if yes, is there a way i can avoid it.

2. whatever i'd gain while on deca (both muscle & strength), will i be able to retail that once i am off it, given my work out schedule will continue the way it's been before.

3. do i need PCT even at such low dose of deca for 8 weeks?

Thanks

[The God Himself]

This was really helpful, one question though - now that i've been on this ed for over 3 months now, is it ok for me to take one day off in a week now?

i am planning to stay on it for another 2 months. My doc infact has given a go ahead for deca on a low dose for the next 8 weeks if i want, but i'd need some research and advice on this before i decide to go for it.

With Deca, 100mg a week, which is what i am planning, can there be any nasty side effects, if yes, is there a way i can avoid it.

2. whatever i'd gain while on deca (both muscle & strength), will i be able to retail that once i am off it, given my work out schedule will continue the way it's been before.

3. do i need PCT even at such low dose of deca for 8 weeks?

Thanks

Yes, you do need a PCT. Deca will make your HPTA shutdown very quickly even people say youre shutdown from the first injection. I would run it longer btw, it takes some time until Deca kicks in.
I don’t think you’ll have gyno from that dose, but it would be helpful to run caber 0.25 twice a week to prevent the cells (prolactogenic cells, if I remember correct) that secrete prolactin from developing in the brain.
I cannot say anything about HGH though, I don’t know much about it as I’ve never used it.
And I want to mention that you should run low dose of testosterone while taking Deca. Deca doesn’t work exactly the way Test works so it cannot help with the bodily functions that test regulates.

[kaps82]

Yes, you do need a PCT. Deca will make your HPTA shutdown very quickly even people say youre shutdown from the first injection. I would run it longer btw, it takes some time until Deca kicks in.
I don’t think you’ll have gyno from that dose, but it would be helpful to run caber 0.25 twice a week to prevent the cells (prolactogenic cells, if I remember correct) that secrete prolactin from developing in the brain.
I cannot say anything about HGH though, I don’t know much about it as I’ve never used it.
And I want to mention that you should run low dose of testosterone while taking Deca. Deca doesn’t work exactly the way Test works so it cannot help with the bodily functions that test regulates.

thanks for the information, do you think 100mg of Test per week be ok with Deca?

[kaps82]

would really appreciate though if those who've run HGH & Deca simultaneously can perhaps put some light on this.....just to remind again, i haven't done any cycles ever in life, i am 36, male, been working out since last 20 years years (on & off). So the first ever substance i've taken the plunge with was HGH about 3 months ago.

I do intend to get stronger & add a few pounds of hard muscles that i can retain once i am off HGH or/and any other thing that i may go for. But because it's not my profession, i don't want it at the cost of, losing my hair or sex drive, and i don't want to hurt my liver, kidneys or any other vital organs. Perhaps i am asking for too much, but can someone please guide me in the right direction & tell me the best way to proceed.

Many thanks.

[The God Himself]

thanks for the information, do you think 100mg of Test per week be ok with Deca?

Yes its ok but since your HPTA will already be shutdown, why wouldn’t you up your dosage to maximize the gains?
By the way, since it is not recommended to do your first cycle with more than one compound, please make sure you are under your doctor’s supervision.

[kaps82]

that's exactly why i am a bit wary of using Deca , as this is my first time on a compound that too HGH. My doc infact thinks i can benefit using Deca while on HGH & he maybe 100% right but it's just when he says with AAS there's always that little risk that gets me thinking if its worth me trying it.

[Windex]

that's exactly why i am a bit wary of using Deca, as this is my first time on a compound that too HGH. My doc infact thinks i can benefit using Deca while on HGH & he maybe 100% right but it's just when he says with AAS there's always that little risk that gets me thinking if its worth me trying it.

You shouldn't use Deca . You need to read the educational threads

I'm not sure why the guy above saying HGH shouldn't be used every day that's completely false.

In the future you should only consider Deca if you are willing to accept the risk of being on TRT for the rest of your life and the cost associated with that. Nandrolone (aka Deca Durablolin) is one of the biggest reasons people end up on TRT because it's hard to recover from.

On top of that, you will test positive on a drug test for up approx 527 days when you use Deca. Depending on any sports or jobs that may be enough of a deterrent. Also Deca for 8 weeks is useless.

You need to start by understanding hormones and compounds and invest time in education - blindly following information is going to set yourself up for failure. Most Doctors, even Endocrinologists don't know a lot about steroids . Typically what happens is they don't keep up on medicine after leaving school. My first specialist was clueless because she was 60 and was using information/programs from the 80s which is completely out dated.

Running HGH for 2 more months then stopping also accomplished nothing outside of helping your injury.


Honestly just focus on the injury, and spend your down time on education and research, not from gym bros or youtube but real literature. The goals you have stated don't really correlate to needing HGh. Do yourself this favour because to be honest right now your a train wreck waiting to happen - you are all over the place.

[kaps82]

You shouldn't use Deca . You need to read the educational threads

I'm not sure why the guy above saying HGH shouldn't be used every day that's completely false.

In the future you should only consider Deca if you are willing to accept the risk of being on TRT for the rest of your life and the cost associated with that. Nandrolone (aka Deca Durablolin) is one of the biggest reasons people end up on TRT because it's hard to recover from.

On top of that, you will test positive on a drug test for up approx 527 days when you use Deca. Depending on any sports or jobs that may be enough of a deterrent. Also Deca for 8 weeks is useless.

You need to start by understanding hormones and compounds and invest time in education - blindly following information is going to set yourself up for failure. Most Doctors, even Endocrinologists don't know a lot about steroids . Typically what happens is they don't keep up on medicine after leaving school. My first specialist was clueless because she was 60 and was using information/programs from the 80s which is completely out dated.

Running HGH for 2 more months then stopping also accomplished nothing outside of helping your injury.


Honestly just focus on the injury, and spend your down time on education and research, not from gym bros or youtube but real literature. The goals you have stated don't really correlate to needing HGh. Do yourself this favour because to be honest right now your a train wreck waiting to happen - you are all over the place.

Hi Windex,

Thanks for this post, i am not going to consider deca at all for bodybuilding purposes, read a lot of info & done a lot of research lately & now i know i ain't going for that.

As for the HGH, I've now been on it for about 3.5 months & will be on it for another 6 weeks. I've decided against steroids completely as HGH has done for me more than what i expected & i am happy with the results. What i am going to take is just creatine for about 6 weeks that's all, again i know it's not a steroid however it does tend to give a lot of water, so i'll run it only till the time i am on HGH & that'll be the end of it.

Thanks

[kaps82]

BTW just to point out, i am still taking it (HGH) ED, I've seen there's this big debate around "how many days a week should it be taken", with half the people saying ED while the rest saying 5 or 6 days a week, so i decided I'd go with what my doc has asked me to do, which is ed.

I can't comment on who is right or wrong because i am not a doctor, but seriously it's confusing why some people think it shouldn't be taken ED.

[Windex]

The philosophy of 5 days on 2 days off is to save money because it's expensive to purchase. Creatine has tons of studies behind it and you either take it every day all year around (which is perfectly reasonable) or not at all. There is no cycling of creatine. It's the cheapest supplement and one of the few (maybe only?) proven to actually be effective.

[kaps82]

oh ok...