30 Years old - Second Cycle (low test levels)

[aussie30]

Hey guys new member here wanted to start a post to get some advice as it's been a long time since my first cycle and just wanting to get some help from experienced users to start off with bit of background about me im 30 years old now nearly 31 from 28 onwards had a tough break up and hit rock bottom mild depression trained through it best i could but noticed from 28 till now just slowly putting on excess body fat and less energy and just overall having problems had 2 bad knees (1 acl repair) other (torn meniscus) but both are alright now still give me bit of an issue every now and then but can squat etc

Have tried the whole dieting thing i can't do it anymore i can stick to a diet but i get poor results and im always hungry and after a period of time i end up just getting so over not being happy and enjoying my food that i just go eat even worse than before the diet and i currently weigh around 83kg (182lbs) heaviest i've been was 90kg

First cycle was done when i was 23 i was tiny weighing in around 58kg and was training a few years but couldn't put size on the first cycle helped me bulk up massively and increase my weight from 58kg to around 75kg on a 12 week cycle i was very happy with the result almost no side effects and kept all of my size i had put on minor muscle loss of course but the overall difference was great below was what i can remember of my first cycle

I used

Test propinate and Primobolan for the first 6 weeks along with dinabol for the first week (don't remember exact mg's)
Then i ran primobolan and test e for the following 6 weeks (don't remember exact mg's)

I used Nolva 2 weeks after my last pin and did 60mg / day for the first 2 weeks then 40mg / day 3rd week and 20mg / day for the fourth week

I was happy with result had no bad side effects no sore nipples or itching etc had my blood works monitored by my gp before during and after and all was good




Going into my second cycle currently weighing 83kg high bodyfat training 4 - 5 days a week but not seeing the results i want feeling lethargic / tired all the time body aching and sore slow recovery i had a testorone test done not entirely sure how to read it but gp said test levels are fine but personally i feel they have dropped

These were the results from 2 dates 12/05/12 and 03/04/18

Testorone - 15.0 and 17.6 nmol/L (reference 11.5 - 32.0)
SHBG - 19 and 30 nmol/L (reference 15-50)
FAI - 78.9 and 58.7 (% 15-100)
Calc Free Testo - N/a and 381 pmol/L (reference 260-740)


My goal from this cycle is to lose body fat , tone up and increase muscle mass and im happy with a weight between 75-90kg just want the body fat gone i want a boost in energy and recovery and just overall better wellbeing and quality of life not looking to run anything crazy or potent a friend suggested a simple Test/E and Deca (good for joints) cycle

Before i go on about what i wanna do and pretend like im an expert i would like to hear some more experienced members especially ones who are 30+ and may have felt or dealt with similar issues to me ? (Not looking to be told i need to diet train naturally im not at peak etc etc im aware of that im aware of the risks but would like to proceed)

Full Bloodwork here : imgur.com/a/06RMcOk

Current bodyfat is between 22-26% roughly
Current weight 83kg

[ScotchGuard02]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your tough break. It doesn't sound like it's the low Test is what's gotten you to 26% body fat. It may be your lifestyle and your current emotional state. You can't run a cycle to correct your body if emotionally, you are still depressed. Your eating habits will put fat right back on after the cycle. You need to get into the gym everyday and work your ass off, no pun intended. A regimented exercise program will help you line out your diet and your diet will help you lose fat.

Running a cycle when your body fat is around 25% is not a good idea. The higher the body fat, the greater chance of complications with gyno. Gyno is pre-cancerous so it's nothing to laugh at. Yes, your Test is low but it's not off the chart. You really do need to lose about 10% more body fat before you look at cycling. Look at running a carb rotation diet for 8 weeks. The carb rotation diet's always stripped fat off my bones when I've run it. You may want to look at running an Anavar only cycle for your first cycle. It's the weakest steroid out there and will have less potential for gyno. You won't make large gains but it will lean you out some and put on 5lbs to 8lbs of muscle. Good luck bro

[aussie30]

Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear about your tough break. It doesn't sound like it's the low Test is what's gotten you to 26% body fat. It may be your lifestyle and your current emotional state. You can't run a cycle to correct your body if emotionally, you are still depressed. Your eating habits will put fat right back on after the cycle. You need to get into the gym everyday and work your ass off, no pun intended. A regimented exercise program will help you line out your diet and your diet will help you lose fat.

Running a cycle when your body fat is around 25% is not a good idea. The higher the body fat, the greater chance of complications with gyno. Gyno is pre-cancerous so it's nothing to laugh at. Yes, your Test is low but it's not off the chart. You really do need to lose about 10% more body fat before you look at cycling. Look at running a carb rotation diet for 8 weeks. The carb rotation diet's always stripped fat off my bones when I've run it. You may want to look at running an Anavar only cycle for your first cycle. It's the weakest steroid out there and will have less potential for gyno. You won't make large gains but it will lean you out some and put on 5lbs to 8lbs of muscle. Good luck bro

First of thanks for taking the time to reply and giving me some advice

The breakup did cause me to lose some motivation / weight gain but that's part of life now im fine but the issue is like i mentioned just always feeling tired / lack of energy going into the gym tired is the worst and then ontop not being able to lift what i used to is demotivating big time and even when i push myself for months the results seem extremely minimal compared to what i was achieving before which is why i was considering a second cycle in hopes it would help overall with my health

I'm planning to do my second cycle on the 1st of September so i could prepare training hard and trying to strip weight whenever i have dieted i fluctuate between 78 and 85kg and end up not dieting because i really enjoy my food and diets just feel so restrictive and i hate counting macros etc it just isn't the lifestyle for me that ofcourse does not mean i just eat rubbish i don't even eat take away like maccas kfc etc and i avoid soda's and coke etc but i still love my breads and rice and sugar which are the 3 things that are slowing me down

Could you give me an example of your carb rotation diet im open to trying just have had bad experiences in the past and always seem to be hungry when dieting i usually last 3 - 4 weeks sometimes 5 then just stop because i miss eating foods i want

I've tried Keto and Intermittent fasting lost a few kg with keto but its too hard to keep up for a long period of time i find IF much easier going for long periods without eating seems to be much easier for me

[aussie30]

bump for some input

[Phoenixphysique]

Hi

I will offer some insight here based on how i would advise my client with a very very brief version of course for you . I for one think you may wanna make sure you're doing the right things to ensure recovery of these injuries , have you had any therapy or use of peptides even? any help for the injuries involving tissue / tendons and ligaments .

Now the diet , i wouldn't stress too much on the diet , i am a believe people are massively over obsessive on this aspect of body building . I think it's important to be well educated in the diet and make use of that but one really has to be practical and also realistic , we do of course get one life only as well to enjoy .

Now as far as your test scores , you're going into a cycle so while it's a bit helpful as a reference point for now or later , it's a bit irrelevant . I see your goals here , they look reasonable and fit for a nice looking body that is healthy . I want to ask you then , have you considered a low dose TREN cycle along side your test? You could of course use a fast acting ester like acetate which i advise and whatever ester you prefer in testosterone , i like enth and others prefer something else . If you really really wanted , you could add in a sarm or two if you currently use them or believe in them , some don't , i have coached many on them so it is my belief they have a good place in bodybuilding without or a long side AAS . I don't suggest kick starting with an oral or even using one right now , not only does it not really fit your goals , they are of course more toxic to our body . I am more incline to say , try out test + a very low - low moderate dose of TREN and of course , if you feel you deal well with TREN and prolactin potential of it , you can increase slowly to any point you wish . A lot of TRENs side effects are not only person to person but mainly dose dependant .

If you were interested in a SARM , you would want to add in something like S23 + GW5 into this stack and i think you would enjoy that , you can run the S23 at 20-30 mg and the GW at 10-20 mg pre workout . I have zero connections to any SARMs companies or at least i have not currently accepted offers , i only mention this as i know a lot of these idiots go off in the forums about SARMs to promote companies and make them sound better than they are . Now i think they are great but i am not foolish enough to compare them to anabolic and androgenic steroids , they simply compliment the AAS user or give guys afraid of gear use a chance to make some better results in a safer manner .

hope this insight helps

[aussie30]

Would appreciate any assistance with second cycle

[Windex]

Going to be blunt,

Your second post talking about the fact you don't like counting macros, "feeling restricted" on eating choices, etc shows you have no business using any steroid whatsoever in any capacity. If you don't have the mental discipline to live this lifestyle year round steroids are not going to help you. There's no such thing as a "fat loss cycle." Diet is what determines results.

Bodybuilding is a lifestyle there's no "diets". its not enough to say I'll do a, b, or c then september 1 i'll be ready to cycle, because you won't (on top of the fact that 10% body fat drop is not going to happen in 4 weeks)

Refined Sugar and refined carbs (bread) are the two worst foods to be putting in your body. It's clear that are you aren't in control of your body, but your body is in control of you. The mind is the weakest muscle.

You want to use steroids ?

- Start counting macros
- Give up the garbage food
- Educated yourself a proper nutrition and training program
- After per review of said program, run it for a year

If you can't do the above steroids will be a waste of your time and money.

[Mr.BB]

Hi

I will offer some insight here based on how i would advise my client with a very very brief version of course for you . I for one think you may wanna make sure you're doing the right things to ensure recovery of these injuries , have you had any therapy or use of peptides even? any help for the injuries involving tissue / tendons and ligaments .

Now the diet , i wouldn't stress too much on the diet , i am a believe people are massively over obsessive on this aspect of body building . I think it's important to be well educated in the diet and make use of that but one really has to be practical and also realistic , we do of course get one life only as well to enjoy .

Now as far as your test scores , you're going into a cycle so while it's a bit helpful as a reference point for now or later , it's a bit irrelevant . I see your goals here , they look reasonable and fit for a nice looking body that is healthy . I want to ask you then , have you considered a low dose TREN cycle along side your test? You could of course use a fast acting ester like acetate which i advise and whatever ester you prefer in testosterone , i like enth and others prefer something else . If you really really wanted , you could add in a sarm or two if you currently use them or believe in them , some don't , i have coached many on them so it is my belief they have a good place in bodybuilding without or a long side AAS . I don't suggest kick starting with an oral or even using one right now , not only does it not really fit your goals , they are of course more toxic to our body . I am more incline to say , try out test + a very low - low moderate dose of TREN and of course , if you feel you deal well with TREN and prolactin potential of it , you can increase slowly to any point you wish . A lot of TRENs side effects are not only person to person but mainly dose dependant .

If you were interested in a SARM , you would want to add in something like S23 + GW5 into this stack and i think you would enjoy that , you can run the S23 at 20-30 mg and the GW at 10-20 mg pre workout . I have zero connections to any SARMs companies or at least i have not currently accepted offers , i only mention this as i know a lot of these idiots go off in the forums about SARMs to promote companies and make them sound better than they are . Now i think they are great but i am not foolish enough to compare them to anabolic and androgenic steroids , they simply compliment the AAS user or give guys afraid of gear use a chance to make some better results in a safer manner .

hope this insight helps

What a bad advice you are giving, tren for someone mentioning some depression.

Seems like you are pitching for clients. This is not allowed unless you have contacted Admin.

Give the advice you want but refrain from pitching.

[aussie30]

With all due respect people lead different lifestyles and have different goals just because i have a different goal shouldn't mean people just refuse to give advice and to help a person when i wanted to do my first cycle i encountered the same people who talk all high and noble about doing this doing that if you don't do this then you shouldn't do it etc etc etc i also encountered some genuine people who voiced concerns or opinions then went on to help me

After doing my first cycle a long time ago without any of the rubbish you keep going on about i had great results no side effects and kept a lot of my gains it was a great experience and i honestly feel the only thing that could of made it any better was sure if i trained for longer or dieted but the fact is i was extremely happy with the results i then chose to continue training without any cycles fast forward 6 years + i am going to do my second cycle regardless of what you think im in the process of writing it up as we speak ideally it would be great to have some advice on how to include deca and at what dose with my 500mg / week enanthate and my hcg / exemestane and pct afterwards

If you don't have any valid and helpful input don't bother replying

Peace

Current cycle for anyone actually willing to give me some assistance

Week 1 to 12: Testosterone enanthate at 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
Week 1 to 12: hCG at 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
Week 1 to 14: Arimidex at 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)

Wait 14 days to start pct which will then be

Clomid at 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex at 40/20/20/20


Ideally i would like to include deca for my joints because as mentioned i haven't got the best knees if someone is willing to help me refine this would be greatly appreciated

[Windex]

The hardest pill to swallow is brutal honesty.

[aussie30]

bump for help adding deca to cycle

[aussie30]

bump for any help

[Mr.BB]

Add deca if you want to go on TRT.

If your test is low now, if you add deca it will be much lower when you try to recover. It is the slowest compound, it is detectable up to a year and it shuts your testicles on the first shot.

It has antiinflammatories properties, it is why users like it for joints. It does not heal, just has the same effect as Tylenol, for example.

[aussie30]

If im running 500mg test a week with hcg 500ui split 250/250 over a week and then a low dose of deca say 200-300mg a week wouldn't the chances of permanently shutting down my test levels be extremely low ? i thought the idea of running hcg with test and deca is to keep your balls producing T while on cycle and then if you stop deca say 1 - 2 weeks before the last 2 weeks of test / hcg followed by your pct you'd be pretty unlucky to not recover well from the deca ? am i missing something or not understanding correctly happy to read anything if you have some information have read a few forums so far and what im saying above seems to be the common thought


At this point in time my cycle is looking like this

Week 1 to 12: Test @ 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
Week 1 to 12: hCG @ 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
Week 1 to 10: Deca @ 150mg every 3.5 days (300mg/week total)
Week 1 to 14: Exemestane @ 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)
Week 1 to 12: 600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine daily

PCT (2 weeks after last injection)
Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20


Any suggestions changes increases / decreases etc let me know thanks for the help

[The Deadlifting Dog]

If im running 500mg test a week with hcg 500ui split 250/250 over a week and then a low dose of deca say 200-300mg a week wouldn't the chances of permanently shutting down my test levels be extremely low ? i thought the idea of running hcg with test and deca is to keep your balls producing T while on cycle and then if you stop deca say 1 - 2 weeks before the last 2 weeks of test / hcg followed by your pct you'd be pretty unlucky to not recover well from the deca ? am i missing something or not understanding correctly happy to read anything if you have some information have read a few forums so far and what im saying above seems to be the common thought


At this point in time my cycle is looking like this

Week 1 to 12: Test @ 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
Week 1 to 12: hCG @ 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
Week 1 to 10: Deca @ 150mg every 3.5 days (300mg/week total)
Week 1 to 14: Exemestane @ 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)
Week 1 to 12: 600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine daily

PCT (2 weeks after last injection)
Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20


Any suggestions changes increases / decreases etc let me know thanks for the help

deca will not heal your joints.
it will mask the pain.

deca is not a good choice for you because it is especially difficult to recover from.

you are not going to tone up/lose body fat without changing your diet. Sorry.

maybe you feel lethargic and have low T because of your diet.
garbage in/garbage out

[aussie30]

"ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS"

Come onto forum ask for help / ask questions don't get answers get people repeating the same thing over and over

Ask for tips on cycle get no input on cycle just more repeated stuff that has nothing to do with what i asked

How is this forum taking seriously with members who can't even answer questions and provide valuable input ......


1.Nowhere did i say deca will heal my joints it masks / lubes the joints to help with lifting
2.I'm not asking about dieting information so why keep mentioning it ?
3.Maybe i feel lethargic / low T because i have certain injuries that would benefit from more muscle mass e.g meniscus tear if my legs are more developed it takes less pressure off the knee which essentially helps it and also the fact im 30 years old and test levels naturally begin to drop

Once again if people aren't willing to provide input on my cycle and actually try to help don't bother commenting your wasting your time and mine

[Mr.BB]

"ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS"

Come onto forum ask for help / ask questions don't get answers get people repeating the same thing over and over

Ask for tips on cycle get no input on cycle just more repeated stuff that has nothing to do with what i asked

How is this forum taking seriously with members who can't even answer questions and provide valuable input ......


1.Nowhere did i say deca will heal my joints it masks / lubes the joints to help with lifting
2.I'm not asking about dieting information so why keep mentioning it ?
3.Maybe i feel lethargic / low T because i have certain injuries that would benefit from more muscle mass e.g meniscus tear if my legs are more developed it takes less pressure off the knee which essentially helps it and also the fact im 30 years old and test levels naturally begin to drop

Once again if people aren't willing to provide input on my cycle and actually try to help don't bother commenting your wasting your time and mine

1. Personnaly I dont advise deca to anyone not on TRT, as it is very supressive, it will shut you down from first shot, and very slow. Needs minimum 12 weeks, and then you need to wait 4 weeks to start PCT.
2. Proper nutrition is essencial to get results, no way around it. Taking steroids and not doing eating right is a waste of health. It seems you are wanting to cut, right? If so you just need to take some test to maintain muscle mass, you can add some oral like winstrol which will make look harder, but you have to be in calorific deficit or you wont cut any fat. It doesnt mean you need to eat very little, it means you need to count your calories in and out. Want to eat more? increase cardio.
Many want to cut and gain muscle at same time, let me tell you unless you have prime genetics you will fail at this. 95% people need to cut or bulk, cant do both.
3. Dont know how increasing muscle in quad would reduce pressure off meniscus, dont understand your logic as the meniscus is a cartilage separating your upper and lower leg. Your blood work looks normal.

[*Admin*]

"ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS"

Come onto forum ask for help / ask questions don't get answers get people repeating the same thing over and over

Ask for tips on cycle get no input on cycle just more repeated stuff that has nothing to do with what i asked

How is this forum taking seriously with members who can't even answer questions and provide valuable input ...…



1.Nowhere did i say deca will heal my joints it masks / lubes the joints to help with lifting <--- (yes it does mask it and can allow you to be injured further because it masks the pain of injury also)
2.I'm not asking about dieting information so why keep mentioning it ? <--- (Because what you asked concerns your diet
3.Maybe i feel lethargic / low T because i have certain injuries that would benefit from more muscle mass e.g meniscus tear if my legs are more developed it takes less pressure off the knee which essentially helps it and also the fact im 30 years old and test levels naturally begin to drop.

Once again if people aren't willing to provide input on my cycle and actually try to help don't bother commenting your wasting your time and mine <--- (People are providing input... just NOT what you want to hear...)

We are taken seriously because we do not give bullshit answers just because that is what someone wants... we give answers that have been researched and proven.

You have been getting valuable input... maybe NOT what you want to hear because the men here do not just tell people what they want to hear... They are speaking from their experience and information gathered from their research on real ups and downs of people who have done it! Not who are wanting to be told they are right when they are not...

Diet is the number one thing that most men and women can not handle and that is why they fail at increased muscle, lean mass, cutting etc.... end of story... Unless you or anyone learns that FOOD is FUEL... NOT... food is for pleasure, they will not succeed... ask anyone who has made it to their goal.

Of course everyone loves food and wants that great meal, so save it for a cheat day... but you have to give up things to achieve the body goal... Then add back in moderation and control... No one loses body fat without a diet being on point!

[cousinmuscles]

"ANABOLIC STEROIDS - QUESTIONS & ANSWERS"

Come onto forum ask for help / ask questions don't get answers get people repeating the same thing over and over

Ask for tips on cycle get no input on cycle just more repeated stuff that has nothing to do with what i asked

How is this forum taking seriously with members who can't even answer questions and provide valuable input ......


1.Nowhere did i say deca will heal my joints it masks / lubes the joints to help with lifting
2.I'm not asking about dieting information so why keep mentioning it ?
3.Maybe i feel lethargic / low T because i have certain injuries that would benefit from more muscle mass e.g meniscus tear if my legs are more developed it takes less pressure off the knee which essentially helps it and also the fact im 30 years old and test levels naturally begin to drop

Once again if people aren't willing to provide input on my cycle and actually try to help don't bother commenting your wasting your time and mine

Apart from the replies from the other members and admin, keep in mind nobody is getting paid to help you, this is a community where everything relies on mutual exchanges, think again before shitting on those who took the time to reply... What have you done to help in this community?

[aussie30]

Apart from the replies from the other members and admin, keep in mind nobody is getting paid to help you, this is a community where everything relies on mutual exchanges, think again before shitting on those who took the time to reply... What have you done to help in this community?

I understand that 100% and i apologise for coming across rude and arrogant its just i have most of the stuff ready and im trying to get help on the cycle itself and the way people are talking seems like a condescending way without actually helping to answer questions

This is my current cycle


Week 1 to 12: Test @ 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
Week 1 to 12: hCG @ 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
Week 1 to 10: Deca @ 150mg every 3.5 days (300mg/week total)
Week 1 to 14: Exemestane @ 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)
Week 1 to 12: 600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine daily

PCT (2 weeks after last injection)
Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20


The questions i have are as followed

1.If i run deca at 200/300mg with the hcg 500iu a week and test at 500mg a week will that avoid the test shutdown or make the recovery easy ?
2.If deca kills off test on first shot why do people always use it and why is it so popular and why do people swear by using it ? surely if it kills your natural test and there's a high risk of killing natural test permanently people would avoid it ?
3.Why bother running HCG to keep natural test going if deca kills it on first shot ?
4.If i had 20 tablets of 50mg anapolon would you suggest using them in the first week or 2 for a kick start ? what dosages would you recommend and i know orals are heavy on liver (I don't drink , smoke or do any drugs and my last cycle was like 6+ years ago so would it be ok ?)
5.Based on the cycle above would i get decent benefit / gains if i dropped the deca and make my life much easier for recovery ?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I understand that 100% and i apologise for coming across rude and arrogant its just i have most of the stuff ready and im trying to get help on the cycle itself and the way people are talking seems like a condescending way without actually helping to answer questions

This is my current cycle


Week 1 to 12: Test @ 250 mg every 3.5 days (500mg/week total)
Week 1 to 12: hCG @ 250 iu every 3.5 days (500 iu/week total)
Week 1 to 10: Deca @ 150mg every 3.5 days (300mg/week total)
Week 1 to 14: Exemestane @ 0.25mg every other day (From day 2 up until PCT starts)
Week 1 to 12: 600 mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine daily

PCT (2 weeks after last injection)
Clomid @ 75/50/50/50 & Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20


The questions i have are as followed

1.If i run deca at 200/300mg with the hcg 500iu a week and test at 500mg a week will that avoid the test shutdown or make the recovery easy ? you will be shutdown. the hCG simply keeps your testes artificially producing test. the hCG makes recovery easier because at least your balls stayed active.
2.If deca kills off test on first shot why do people always use it and why is it so popular and why do people swear by using it ? surely if it kills your natural test and there's a high risk of killing natural test permanently people would avoid it ? not everyone uses it or swears by it. people like it as a bulker and as joint relief. many won't touch it because it is harsh on the HPTA.
3.Why bother running HCG to keep natural test going if deca kills it on first shot ? the hCG keeps the T part of your HPTA active so in theory recovery should be easier since your entire HPTA wasn't dormant.
4.If i had 20 tablets of 50mg anapolon would you suggest using them in the first week or 2 for a kick start ? what dosages would you recommend and i know orals are heavy on liver (I don't drink , smoke or do any drugs and my last cycle was like 6+ years ago so would it be ok ?) drop the deca and run 50mg a day for a kickstart if you are looking for a bulking agent. 300mg deca for 10 weeks is too little for too short a time frame. it will provide some joint relief.
5.Based on the cycle above would i get decent benefit / gains if i dropped the deca and make my life much easier for recovery ?what gains are you looking for? hate to say it but it all comes back to your diet. Recovery will be much easier without the deca.

see above in red

[usernamewastaken]

see above in red

Not fixing your diet is bad but your choice.You won't get the same results you would with a good diet.But using deca is plain stupid,u only did 1 cycle and that was 6 years ago.Start with test e alone and you'll see really good results with that alone.

[MACKATTACK]

When you say lose body fat.......that is ONLY DIET AND CARDIO......

I have not seen u once mention cardio, also you said u are going to continue your “bad diet.” Steroids like these are only going to compound the issue and actually add body fat. U may look leaner on cycle because your muscles look bigger but with a crap diet, no cardio and gear you will gain fat with it and u will probably look bloated if it’s that bad and super high in sodium.....

Btw Primo helps with the estrogen and probably why u looked leaner because it is definitely an asthetic steroid per say. Also when ur 23 your metabolism is probably much faster then it is now at your age, hence why u got fatter...

Good luck......

[aussie30]

see above in red

Thank you for the reply deadlifting greatly appreciated

1.Is there any amount of deca that can be run for joint relief at a low mg like 50mg etc that will give join relief without shutting down test on first jab ?

2.What im hoping to achieve is an increase in muscle mass and to tone up and improve strength / energy im currently 83kg and ideally would like t get to 90-95kg

3.Few people have said about diet so i feel like i should clarify my wording more clearly i enjoy eating food and currently only eat 1 to 2 meals a day i don't eat junk food like maccas and ive stopped all soft drinks but i do enjoy eating out like kebabs / mixed plates and sometimes indian food stuff like salads and lamb / mince /chicken skewers with rice and bread these are meals i enjoy and so when i said i don't want to diet what i mean is i don't want to be 1 of those people counting calories preparing 100 meals in my fridge kind of person but obviously cutting out sugars / sweets / desserts / soft drinks / as much processed food as possible is something i will do my goal for this coming month is to ensure i get my diet in control and try to increase my meals throughout the day then the following month (september) will be the start of my cycle

My routine will be
Mon - Back and biceps
Tues - Chest and Triceps
Wed - Cardio
Thurs - Legs
Friday - Shoulders / core / abs and possibly more cardio
Sat / Sun - Rest

At this stage i am also considering dropping deca as per your advise if there's no way to run it for benefit of joins without shutting down natural test

If you have anything to add with what i have said about my diet / routine or ways to improve i would appreciate the input

[Windex]

- There is no amount of Deca that is safe to run. The therapeutic doses of Nandrolone acts a turbocharged Tylenol+Glucosamine. Once the needle is in, you are shut down its that simple. Nandrolone is best suited for athletes that compete, they use their body as their means of income, or are already a TRT patient.

- Eating once (or twice) a day has been proven to be very unhealthy, and arguably the worst option for nutrition (not to be confused with fasting which is different altogether). I would argue eating multiple times a day with less healthy foods would be better than once or twice per day with "healthy" foods. Removing sugar, processed foods, and fast food is common sense. There are so many more dimensions and levels to nutrition; micronutrients, digestion, phytonutrients, precycle priming, carb cycling, I-Fasting, it goes on and on.

- The reason why everyone is preaching nutrition is because it is the end all be all of fitness, health, and well being. The people on this board are trying to help you by not wasting your time, your money, and risking your health over what will be marginal/zero gain with a poor nutrition program. You could have the holy grail of a training program with literally your bathtub full of Testosterone and your kitchen sink full of Nandrolone and it still won't do anything without proper food protocol.

We've all seen people that have walked the same path

they think they know how to eat or choose to be stubborn and not accept the black and white nutrition advice provided to them -->

maybe they hop on whatever diet bandwagon is trending or try to follow some "cookie-cutter bodybuilding meal plan" -->

30 days later they think "This is easy, I'm ready to cycle" --->

They Cycle and 1 of 2 things happen ---
(1) They gain weight then lose within 4-6 weeks after cycling because of the first point, get extremely frustrated [Insert any excuse here rather than admitting the fundemental problem], "to hell with all of it", and no more gym or training, or even worse

(2) No results and have the mentality "I didn't use enough gear". Now the vicious cycle begins where they think more gear has to be the answer.

[aussie30]

- There is no amount of Deca that is safe to run. The therapeutic doses of Nandrolone acts a turbocharged Tylenol+Glucosamine. Once the needle is in, you are shut down its that simple. I Don't recommend nandrolone unless Bodybuilding is the primary source of income, they are a competing athlete, or are a TRT patient.

- Eating once (or twice) a day has been proven to be very unhealthy, and arguably the worst option for nutrition (not to be confused with fasting which is different altogether). I would argue eating multiple times a day with less healthy foods would be better than once or twice per day with "healthy" foods. Removing sugar, processed foods, and fast food is common sense. There are so many more dimensions and levels to nutrition; micronutrients, digestion, phytonutrients, precycle priming, carb cycling, I-Fasting, it goes on and on.

- The reason why everyone is preaching nutrition is because it is the end all be all of fitness, health, and well being. The people on this board are trying to help you by not wasting your time, your money, and risking your health over what will be marginal/zero gain with a poor nutrition program. You could have the holy grail of a training program with literally your bathtub full of Testosterone and your kitchen sink full of Nandrolone and it still won't do anything without proper food protocol.

We've all seen people that have walked the same path

they think they know how to eat or choose to be stubborn and not accept the black and white nutrition advice provided to them -->

maybe they hop on whatever diet bandwagon is trending or try to follow some "cookie-cutter bodybuilding meal plan" -->

30 days later they think "This is easy, I'm ready to cycle" --->

They Cycle and 1 of 2 things happen ---
(1) They gain weight then lose within 4-6 weeks after cycling because of the first point, get extremely frustrated [Insert any excuse here rather than admitting the fundemental problem], "to hell with all of it", and no more gym or training, or even worse

(2) No results and have the mentality "I didn't use enough gear". Now the vicious cycle begins where they think more gear has to be the answer.

Could you give me some decenr diet advice and what i should i be aiming for and if not any idepth guides that will have good informtion so i can do more research

[Ricky1]

Heya folks , my first post here just joined site today .And heya Aussie30 mate , after reading , your posts and replies ,am not sure steroidal treatment is your best course of action . Firstly some things you have mentioned , constant tiredness etc, have you had a Diabetic check ? ,do you get itchy legs ,seem thirsty often even after plenty of water etc,maybe a first point of call (I suggest at least every man over 35 , keeps a good eye on diabetes,2 as is a sneaky insidious lil bastard disease). With steroids there are only 2 options we are after , TRT to regain what our bodies are not making in what we require to feel as we did in our mid 20`s ,`Therapeutic` or ` Performance `. And wouldn`t worry about your weight so much as how to change it , for what your body would be in good condition . What I have found ( by accident ), was 18 months ago , I became a referee , and just by sheer exercise my hunger dropped too (was 132 kg , now 108) . Think your real answer , maybe find a healthy interest , Gymnasiums may not be for you right now .

[Ricky1]

Think you hit the nail , directly on the head there Windex

[Windex]

Could you give me some decenr diet advice and what i should i be aiming for and if not any idepth guides that will have good informtion so i can do more research

Read all the diet stickies, twice. it will give you a foundation of nutrition information. Build a meal plan based on what you've read and post it for review