Hematocrit, RBC and MCV

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07-12-2018, 04:22 PM
Slacker78

Hematocrit, RBC and MCV

Hello guys, i'm on TRT and now i'm cycling with Test E 500mg/w and Tren A 100mg/EOD.

I perform monthly a blood work to monitor all my panels.

Beyond HDL decreasing ( around ~-15% ) as i expected as Tren crash HDL, i've seen my RBC count is around ~ 5.640.000 ( ref value 4.500.000 - 6.000.000 ), while my HCT is 47,5%; in past with that RBC my HCT was around ~52-53% so i compared past blood works and i've seen that difference is in MCV; now my MCV is 83 ( ref value 80 - 100 ) while in past was around ~95 and this explain the blood density i had as my red cells was bigger than now.

As i did several blood draws to lower hematocrit in a short time span, i got a light iron deficiency as expected that i treated with iron pills. I suppose this explain while my MCV is lower and so my HCT is lower even though an high RBC count ( 5.640.000 ).

Now i wonder if this HCT value ( 47,5% ) is the same a critical value as the RBC count is high even though MCV is low. What could be useful to do in this case ? If my RBC count continue to increase, it would be advisable to do another blood drain to lowering it ?

Thank you for your suggestions.
07-13-2018, 08:49 AM
kelkel

Imho useful would be to continue the iron supplementation at maybe 65 mgs pd elemental iron. When the cycle is over you should return to homeostatis over time. Your numbers aren't that bad at all on cycle.
07-13-2018, 09:13 AM
hammerheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slacker78

As i did several blood draws to lower hematocrit in a short time span, i got a light iron deficiency as expected that i treated with iron pills. I suppose this explain while my MCV is lower and so my HCT is lower even though an high RBC count ( 5.640.000 ).

Well not really Iron deficiency usually leads to smaller erythrocytes and thus MCV. Low folate and/or B12 is linked to higher MCV.
07-13-2018, 09:18 AM
Slacker78

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerheart

Well not really Iron deficiency usually leads to smaller erythrocytes and thus MCV. Low folate and/or B12 is linked to higher MCV.

I do B12 shots 1000mcg/week. MVC follow MCH as general rule, when it could be an iron deficiency.

Look in attachment:

Attachment 173436
07-13-2018, 09:23 AM
Slacker78

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelkel

Imho useful would be to continue the iron supplementation at maybe 65 mgs pd elemental iron. When the cycle is over you should return to homeostatis over time. Your numbers aren't that bad at all on cycle.

Yes Kel, i'm taking ferrograd 40. It contains 105mg of FE+2. It could be useful to take a pill per day of it ? And for how much time ?

Another question: my RBC count seems to be increasing even my HCT is not high still ( due to low MCV ). Do you think i've to refer to RBC count to decide to do another blood drain in this case, rather HCT ? Or my reference value to keep an eye is always HCT even RBC count is increasing ?

Thank you so much Kel.
07-13-2018, 09:25 AM
hammerheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slacker78

I do B12 shots 1000mcg/week. MVC follow MCH as general rule, when it could be an iron deficiency.

Look in attachment:

Attachment 173436

I'd say it's the B12 shots that resulted in lower MCV; you should look at MCHC instead which is adjusted by cell volume.
07-13-2018, 09:32 AM
Slacker78

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerheart

I'd say it's the B12 shots that resulted in lower MCV; you should look at MCHC instead which is adjusted by cell volume.

Yes, i suspected that. Do you think it would be good to suspend B12 shots for a while ?
07-13-2018, 10:00 AM
hammerheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slacker78

Yes, i suspected that. Do you think it would be good to suspend B12 shots for a while ?

That MCV is fine, and prevent your hct from going high. Why suspend?

Ferrograd is horrible btw. What is your iron status? I take 100mg Iron bysglicinate from Solgar weekly and that keeps my serum Fe and ferritin just normal.

I got "anemia mediterranea" my RBC counts go as high as 7.000.000 yet my HCT is normal, that's what matters.
07-13-2018, 10:25 AM
Slacker78

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerheart

That MCV is fine, and prevent your hct from going high. Why suspend?

Ferrograd is horrible btw. What is your iron status? I take 100mg Iron bysglicinate from Solgar weekly and that keeps my serum Fe and ferritin just normal.

I got "anemia mediterranea" my RBC counts go as high as 7.000.000 yet my HCT is normal, that's what matters.

I've checked my iron status some month ago and ferritin was low but in range, at low minimum threshold. Now i've not checked still as you can see in the attachment, but the other blood values target to little iron deficiency.

Why Ferrograd is horrible ?

I suppose your RBC count increased so high to compensate the lack of iron... your MCV was so low ?
07-13-2018, 10:29 AM
hammerheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slacker78

I've checked my iron status some month ago and ferritin was low but in range, at low minimum threshold. Now i've not checked still as you can see in the attachment, but the other blood values target to little iron deficiency.

Why Ferrograd is horrible ?

I suppose your RBC count increased so high to compensate the lack of iron... your MCV was so low ?

It's an old supp still prescribed by doctors but got very poor bioavailability and can be irritating to the gut.

High RBC in thalassemia beta minor goes to compensate of low MCV, mine is 65. It's not about iron.
07-13-2018, 10:43 AM
Slacker78

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerheart

It's an old supp still prescribed by doctors but got very poor bioavailability and can be irritating to the gut.

High RBC in thalassemia beta minor goes to compensate of low MCV, mine is 65. It's not about iron.

Ah ok, i understood. In every case, RBC count increase as result of low MCV as compensation result, regardless anemia or other causes, isn'it ? In my case it could due to little iron deficiency and/or B12 shots supplements at this point.
07-13-2018, 10:56 AM
hammerheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slacker78

Ah ok, i understood. In every case, RBC count increase as result of low MCV as compensation result, regardless anemia or other causes, isn'it ? In my case it could due to little iron deficiency and/or B12 shots supplements at this point.

Nope beta thalassemia is a special case, was just arguing that as long as hematocrit is normal you shouldn't bother about high RBC (but yours is still in well in range).

It's probably the B12 boosting the RBC counts in your case. As the Iron deficiency corrects, you might witness a small increase in MCV as well.
07-13-2018, 10:59 AM
Slacker78

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerheart

Nope beta thalassemia is a special case, was just arguing that as long as hematocrit is normal you shouldn't bother about high RBC (but yours is still in well in range).

It's probably the B12 boosting the RBC counts in your case. As the Iron deficiency corrects, you might witness a small increase in MCV as well.

So, my reference where i have to keep my eye is always HCT. Thank you HammerHeart, you were very helpful ;)
07-13-2018, 11:10 AM
kelkel

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammerheart

I got "anemia mediterranea" .

Explain that one please.
Not familiar.
07-13-2018, 11:32 AM
hammerheart

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelkel

Explain that one please.
Not familiar.

It's an Italian misnomer for the thalassemia beta minor condition (quite widespread in the South), since Slacker and I are both from there I thought I best explained myself that way.
07-13-2018, 11:59 AM
Mr.BB

Kel non capisce
07-13-2018, 01:09 PM
Slacker78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Kel non capisce

Tu invece ? :D
07-13-2018, 02:25 PM
Mr.BB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slacker78

Tu invece ? :D

Si parlas piano si, no tutti
07-13-2018, 02:38 PM
Slacker78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Si parlas piano si, no tutti

Return to your English man ;) ( good look Mr. BB, great ! ) ;)
07-13-2018, 02:42 PM
kelkel

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Kel non capisce

I'm non something or other...