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Thread: Experienced feedback greatly appreciated...

  1. #1
    balance is offline Associate Member
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    Thumbs up Experienced feedback greatly appreciated...

    Where I'm at goal wise is I would like to be somewhere between 185-200lbs and decently lean. While I would like to be closer to 200 and lean I am more focused on the lean part vs mass, provided I can stay over 185lbs.

    I would really appreciate some knowledgeable experienced input. Considering my current status and goals I was considering basically following the standard first run cycle protocol recommended here on this forum and the full recommendation on PCT(possibly just run test E at 400 vs 500 though). Do you believe the standard run of just test E at 500mg per week (with AI of arimidex & hcg at recommended dosages) be compatible with my current status and goals? Also how long should I wait after the TRT (200mg test c per week for 10 weeks) before I can begin the test E cycle? I know that there is a ton of information out there regarding time between cycles however is this still needed after running a a lower trt dosage for 10 weeks? If I don't need to wait before starting should I even use the hcg by itself for the 2 weeks after the trt as recommended by the trt clinic?

    Sorry for the long post, just like to provide some insight to help with recommendations.

    Thank you
    b
    Last edited by balance; 08-15-2018 at 02:03 PM.

  2. #2
    balance is offline Associate Member
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    Sorry that post was so long.

    Cliff Notes

    Have been on trt clinic program of 200mg test c per week for the past 9 weeks (self administered 100mg every 3.5 days). Several years of training, increased my calories by 400 daily (tracked with macro breakdown). In 9 weeks put on 10lbs but it's not as clean as I expected. Training over this time has been 5-6 days a week (45-60 minute lifting sessions) I have never used AAS prior but in the past I have seen gains similar to this while just using creatine.

    I am wanting to begin a cycle like the one recommended on this forum for first cycles. How long is it recommended to be off the trt dose to begin?

    Thank you
    b
    Last edited by balance; 07-13-2018 at 05:04 PM.

  3. #3
    usernamewastaken's Avatar
    usernamewastaken is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Sorry that post was so long.

    Cliff Notes

    Have been on trt clinic program of 200mg test c per week for the past 9 weeks (self administered 100mg every 3.5 days). Several years of training, increased my calories by 400 daily (tracked with macro breakdown). In 9 weeks put on 10lbs but it's not as clean as I expected. Training over this time has been 5-6 days a week (45-60 minute lifting sessions) I have never used AAS prior but in the past I have seen gains similar to this while just using creatine.

    I am wanting to begin a cycle like the one recommended on this forum for first cycles. How long is it recommended to be off the trt dose to begin?

    Thank you
    b
    You don't get gains from trt because its just like having normal test without taking aas.
    balance likes this.

  4. #4
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Sorry that post was so long.

    Cliff Notes

    Have been on trt clinic program of 200mg test c per week for the past 9 weeks (self administered 100mg every 3.5 days). Several years of training, increased my calories by 400 daily (tracked with macro breakdown). In 9 weeks put on 10lbs but it's not as clean as I expected. Training over this time has been 5-6 days a week (45-60 minute lifting sessions) I have never used AAS prior but in the past I have seen gains similar to this while just using creatine.

    I am wanting to begin a cycle like the one recommended on this forum for first cycles. How long is it recommended to be off the trt dose to begin?

    Thank you
    b
    How often is your doctor going to be pulling bloodwork? Is your TRT prescribed from your family doctor, endocrinologist, urologist, or self medicating?

    9 Weeks is a very short amount of time. There's no magic number everyone is different - but most people will get bloodwork done atleast every 3-4 months in the first year while their TRT is being dialed in then transition to bloodwork annually or every 6 months.

    There wouldn't be any advantage to cycling this early with frequent bloodwork because it's going to come back sky high with a cycle.

    Personally it took me a year to get TRT dialed in but again everyone is different. Once your TRT protocol is set up then you can cycle. In the meantime I would suggest posting your diet in our diet and nutrition program. Nobody has a perfect diet and there is always room for imrprovement.
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  5. #5
    balance is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    How often is your doctor going to be pulling bloodwork? Is your TRT prescribed from your family doctor, endocrinologist, urologist, or self medicating?

    9 Weeks is a very short amount of time. There's no magic number everyone is different - but most people will get bloodwork done atleast every 3-4 months in the first year while their TRT is being dialed in then transition to bloodwork annually or every 6 months.

    There wouldn't be any advantage to cycling this early with frequent bloodwork because it's going to come back sky high with a cycle.

    Personally it took me a year to get TRT dialed in but again everyone is different. Once your TRT protocol is set up then you can cycle. In the meantime I would suggest posting your diet in our diet and nutrition program. Nobody has a perfect diet and there is always room for imrprovement.
    Windex thank you for your help it's greatly appreciated.

    The trt is doctor prescribed through a wellness clinic that focuses specifically on trt. How this clinic works is you basically go in for labs and if they come back low you can then begin treatment. This clinic has it setup such that you sign on in 12 week increments at a time (last two weeks no testosterone , instead they give you hcg to administer at home). Then at the end of the 12 week period you may begin back on the prescribed protocol. The clinic did my labs originally to see if I was low t (which I was), then they do labs again (4 days after last injection) at end of 10 weeks of being on test C. Depending upon the labs at the 10 week mark they may adjust trt dosage up or down (if I decide to stay with this clinic) depending upon how labs look.

    Here's the thing I am beginning to think that I have overestimated the ability of trt at 200mg per week. While I have noticed a difference in strength and lifts my hopes were such that I would gain lean mass at a rate better than pre trt. This has not been the case. The 10 lbs I have gained are softer than previous 20 lbs I gained naturally over the last 10 months. This has me second guessing my selection of trt vs a standard 12 week higher dose test cycle. Cost of this clinic is not cheap but it is convenient and it's sort of a one stop shop kind of deal. Doing a cycle correctly and getting labs done is likely not much cheaper (possibly more) however the end product gains are more in alignment with my goals.

    I appreciate the suggestion of seeking help in the diet section I may do this shortly, as any tips are always greatly appreciated and helpful. To be very clear though I have not changed my diet at since commencing trt other than adding in 400 calories per day. Pre trt I was 180 lbs and the scale held steady with 3000 calories per day. Once I began trt I kept macro breakdown same but took in an extra 400 calories. Also increased workouts from 4-5 days a week to 5-6 days per week.

    Either way provided my labs comeback decent later next week would it be reasonable to run a cycle of 500mg test E per week for 12 weeks (following this forums guidelines on ancillaries and full pct.)?

    Thank you for your input
    b
    Last edited by balance; 07-13-2018 at 09:49 PM.

  6. #6
    balance is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by usernamewastaken View Post
    You don't get gains from trt because its just like having normal test without taking aas.
    Unfortunately I believe I overestimated trt and you are correct.

    Thank you

  7. #7
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Windex thank you for your help it's greatly appreciated.

    The trt is doctor prescribed through a wellness clinic that focuses specifically on trt. How this clinic works is you basically go in for labs and if they come back low you can then begin treatment. This clinic has it setup such that you sign on in 12 week increments at a time (last two weeks no testosterone , instead they give you hcg to administer at home). Then at the end of the 12 week period you may begin back on the prescribed protocol. The clinic did my labs originally to see if I was low t (which I was), then they do labs again (4 days after last injection) at end of 10 weeks of being on test C. Depending upon the labs at the 10 week mark they may adjust trt dosage up or down (if I decide to stay with this clinic) depending upon how labs look.

    Here's the thing I am beginning to think that I have overestimated the ability of trt at 200mg per week. While I have noticed a difference in strength and lifts my hopes were such that I would gain lean mass at a rate better than pre trt. This has not been the case. The 10 lbs I have gained are softer than previous 20 lbs I gained naturally over the last 10 months. This has me second guessing my selection of trt vs a standard 12 week higher dose test cycle. Cost of this clinic is not cheap but it is convenient and it's sort of a one stop shop kind of deal. Doing a cycle correctly and getting labs done is likely not much cheaper (possibly more) however the end product gains are more in alignment with my goals.

    I appreciate the suggestion of seeking help in the diet section I may do this shortly, as any tips are always greatly appreciated and helpful. To be very clear though I have not changed my diet at since commencing trt other than adding in 400 calories per day. Pre trt I was 180 lbs and the scale held steady with 3000 calories per day. Once I began trt I kept macro breakdown same but took in an extra 400 calories. Also increased workouts from 4-5 days a week to 5-6 days per week.

    Either way provided my labs comeback decent later next week would it be reasonable to run a cycle of 500mg test E per week for 12 weeks (following this forums guidelines on ancillaries and full pct.)?

    Thank you for your input
    b
    As I said in my previous post it is way to early to cycle. You have only been on TRT for two months.

    The wellness clinic you are seeing is using an oudated and very poor standard of care. You need to find a doctor to work with you on TRt not a wellness clinic - they are doing things incorrectly
    balance likes this.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by usernamewastaken View Post
    You don't get gains from trt because its just like having normal test without taking aas.
    Not completely accurate. A TRT patient will get gains because it is like having normal test.
    OdinsOtherSon and balance like this.

  9. #9
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    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Quote Originally Posted by usernamewastaken View Post
    You don't get gains from trt because its just like having normal test without taking aas.
    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Unfortunately I believe I overestimated trt and you are correct.

    Thank you

    If you're coming from sub-standard endogenous test levels to TRT you surely can make gains. Cycle like gains, no, but gains none the less. If not then the issue is nutrition and training. Also remember, TRT takes time to dial in and show improvements. It's not a matter of weeks or even several months, it can take a while.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    If you're coming from sub-standard endogenous test levels to TRT you surely can make gains. Cycle like gains, no, but gains none the less. If not then the issue is nutrition and training. Also remember, TRT takes time to dial in and show improvements. It's not a matter of weeks or even several months, it can take a while.
    from his original post what i thought he meant was being on trt=using aas.my bad if i got that wrong.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Where I'm at goal wise is I would like to be somewhere between 185-200lbs and decently lean. While I would like to be closer to 200 and lean I am more focused on the lean part vs mass, provided I can stay over 185lbs.

    I would really appreciate some knowledgeable experienced input. Considering my current status and goals I was considering basically following the standard first run cycle protocol recommended here on this forum and the full recommendation on PCT(possibly just run test E at 400 vs 500 though). Do you believe the standard run of just test E at 500mg per week (with AI of arimidex & hcg at recommended dosages) be compatible with my current status and goals? Also how long should I wait after the TRT (200mg test c per week for 10 weeks) before I can begin the test E cycle? I know that there is a ton of information out there regarding time between cycles however is this still needed after running a a lower trt dosage for 10 weeks? If I don't need to wait before starting should I even use the hcg by itself for the 2 weeks after the trt as recommended by the trt clinic?
    You have to be on TRT long enough to have a stable blood Test level. Most TRT Test dose range between 100mg/wk to 150mg/wk. 200mg/wk is on the high side for TRT. You need blood work at week 12 to see how the TRT dose is affecting you.

    Once you stabilize your TRT dose, you can run a cycle. 500mg/wk of Test E or Test Cyp + .25mg/eod of Adex (start on week 3). You can take HCG but it's not essential since you're on TRT. You don't PCT, so that's the cycle. Pretty simple.
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  12. #12
    balance is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by usernamewastaken View Post
    from his original post what i thought he meant was being on trt=using aas.my bad if i got that wrong.
    Actually you read me correct. While I understand most folks do not consider trt as aas due to the dosages being different. Thing is from what I have read there are folks doing "cruise" dosages that others consider cycle dosages, semantics maybe. People do and use things for different reasons however I am a simple person and to me it's simply a person either uses aas or does not (no judgement here or need to complicate).
    I appreciate your input.

    Thank you
    b

  13. #13
    balance is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    You have to be on TRT long enough to have a stable blood Test level. Most TRT Test dose range between 100mg/wk to 150mg/wk. 200mg/wk is on the high side for TRT. You need blood work at week 12 to see how the TRT dose is affecting you.

    Once you stabilize your TRT dose, you can run a cycle. 500mg/wk of Test E or Test Cyp + .25mg/eod of Adex (start on week 3). You can take HCG but it's not essential since you're on TRT. You don't PCT, so that's the cycle. Pretty simple.
    Thank you everyone for the information.

    ScotchGuard02

    This clinic does the labs at the 10-11 week mark. So hopefully the numbers look reasonable. By stabilize trt dose I'm reading this as looking for total T and free T values in the high normal range with estrogen within an acceptable range on a sensitive lab test. Would this be correct?

    Also on the 500mg cycle you mention waiting 3 weeks before taking the Adex .25mg eod. This is different than what I previously read which is beginning the Adex 2 days after first injection. Can you explain why or reasoning for waiting 3 weeks to begin the AI?

    Many thanks for the help
    b

  14. #14
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    The correct advice is if you are in the first year of trt you should refrain from doing any other hormones.

    200mg is a high dosage for trt.

    This clinics should be inspected by FDA. Most would close.

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