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Thread: First Test ONLY Cycle High Estrogen

  1. #1
    Sinister1957 is online now New Member
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    First Test ONLY Cycle High Estrogen

    Hi

    I wish I would have done my own research before I started But its to late for that.

    I am 61yrs old !72 Pounds 5'7" I was 235lbs about 2 years ago lost the weigh and maintained for about 1.5 years I have been working out for about 1 year.
    Doctor said my test was low so he put me on TRT for a few months from around November 2017 to Feb 2018 Taking Test Cyp 200mg every other week. Made me feel like a new man After I stopped the trt I got weaker and decided to do a Testosterone Cyp Only cycle.

    I started in June
    I have been Taking 200mg twice a week for 4 weeks now. I do have PCT Cycle

    Dosages of nolvadex and clomid combined for PCT protocol:
    Day 1 Clomid 250mg + Nolvadex 60mg
    Following 10 days Clomid 100mg + Nolvadex 40mg
    Following 10 days Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg

    I recently had my Estorgen levels checked and they are High at 63 ... I read somewhere that taking 10mg a day of novadex from beginning of cycle would be a good Idea. Should I start taking Novadex from this point on. I am feeling no ill affects of the higher estorgen levels Should I be concerned or just continue on and just do PCT after cycle.

    Thank You

  2. #2
    Windex's Avatar
    Windex is online now MONITOR
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    Just want to clarify first - You stopped the TRT protocol? Was it explained to you that TRT is a lifelong commitment, it is not something you start/stop. In addition, the TRT program you were given is very dated and no longer considered the correct standard of care. When you pin only every other week it causes your hormones and blood levels to spike and crash

    If you were to use SteroidGraph - Graph your cycle and plot it the graph would show peaks and valleys. (I did it for you but couldn't figure out how to save the graph).

    Patients on TRT do not require PCT they simply return to their TRT dosee when their cycle ends. Do you still have the ongoing perscription for Testosterone Cypionate from your doctor, and if so were you doing the injections yourself at home? If that's the case and you are a candidate for TRT then the program you would want to use is to take 50mg of Testosterone Cypionate twice per week (Every 3.5days, ie Monday morning and Thursday evening) rather than 200mg every other week.

    Did you use an AI (Aromatase Inhibitor) such as Aromasin or Arimidex during your cycle ?

    Finally, do you know your bodyfat percentage at your current height and weight ?
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    Hi Sinister and welcome to the forum.

    First, any doctor that puts someone on TRT for a "few months" is not educated in testosterone 's function or how the HPTA works. Quite common yet sad. Second, a protocol with every two week injections is horrible. He's dosing you on the terminal life of testosterone, not it's half life which puts you on a hormonal roller coaster with extreme highs and lows. I'd love to hear his logic for short term TRT....

    So, now your running 400mgs per week. The more test you run the higher your estrogen will be. One follows the other. I can only assume the estrogen test was standard estradiol? If so, it can be very inaccurate in men and tends to read higher as it's geared for women and can have accuracy issues at a mans lower levels. Men need to run a Sensitive Estrogen Assay to be accurate. All that said, 63 is not really that high assuming it's a normal scale. Estrogen is always better a little higher than lower, especially when trying to make gains.

    Nolvadex isn't a bad idea if you are gyno sensitive. Otherwise there's no need as it will not stop estrogen from rising, only block it from receptors in the chest. It would probably be a good idea if you do not have quick access to scripted adex to use a research chemical site and buy it in liquid form. It's cheap and works just fine.

    When it comes to pct you numbers are way off. But before that, if you had poor testosterone levels initially why would you not go to a different (hopefully educated) doctor and get on a proper TRT protocol? A cycle followed by pct is not really going to do anything to help your endogenous T levels. If anything, they'll be worse.

    Take a few minutes and read the Successful First Cycle Thread at the very top of this forum. It's a sticky, meaning it doesn't move and is always at the top of the threads. PCT and proper dosing is in it. No need for me to write it out. It's a very educational thread.

    Seriously though, if your T was low before, it's still going to be low. Jump on TRT, just definitly not with that doctor!
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    Sinister1957 is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Hi Sinister and welcome to the forum.

    First, any doctor that puts someone on TRT for a "few months" is not educated in testosterone 's function or how the HPTA works. Quite common yet sad. Second, a protocol with every two week injections is horrible. He's dosing you on the terminal life of testosterone, not it's half life which puts you on a hormonal roller coaster with extreme highs and lows. I'd love to hear his logic for short term TRT....

    So, now your running 400mgs per week. The more test you run the higher your estrogen will be. One follows the other. I can only assume the estrogen test was standard estradiol? If so, it can be very inaccurate in men and tends to read higher as it's geared for women and can have accuracy issues at a mans lower levels. Men need to run a Sensitive Estrogen Assay to be accurate. All that said, 63 is not really that high assuming it's a normal scale. Estrogen is always better a little higher than lower, especially when trying to make gains.

    Nolvadex isn't a bad idea if you are gyno sensitive. Otherwise there's no need as it will not stop estrogen from rising, only block it from receptors in the chest. It would probably be a good idea if you do not have quick access to scripted adex to use a research chemical site and buy it in liquid form. It's cheap and works just fine.

    When it comes to pct you numbers are way off. But before that, if you had poor testosterone levels initially why would you not go to a different (hopefully educated) doctor and get on a proper TRT protocol? A cycle followed by pct is not really going to do anything to help your endogenous T levels. If anything, they'll be worse.

    Take a few minutes and read the Successful First Cycle Thread at the very top of this forum. It's a sticky, meaning it doesn't move and is always at the top of the threads. PCT and proper dosing is in it. No need for me to write it out. It's a very educational thread.

    Seriously though, if your T was low before, it's still going to be low. Jump on TRT, just definitly not with that doctor!
    Hi Kelkel

    It gets better ..apparently my doctor is clueless ...I was told my levels were good again after 3 months or so and He took me off the testosterone.. Backed up by a blood test... He was not in the next time I visited so I used a different doctor in same office.. This doctor gave me a blood test and also said my levels were fine...I have to believe there was probably never a problem with my levels according to what you say about it being an on going treatment and results from 2 latest blood test.

    In any case I read the Sticky and will follow the PCT protocol outlined. I planned on doing a 12 week cycle at this point should I continue on or start taking either a
    aromatase inhibitor (AI) such as Arimidex or Aromasin or Novadex as a precautionary measure while on cycle? I have Novadex on hand. I would have to order AI's and would take about 2 weeks to get.

    BTW ..My Body Fat ranges from 17 - 20% Taken at gym with hand held machine.. I am told that it is not very accurate but that is all I have access to. I am 61 and was told that is excellent for my age do not know if it is good enough for cycle.

    Talk about on the job training. To be honest I probably would have never started this had not my doctor prescribed it for me originally.

    One last thing I have been Dieting eating 2100 calories at 45% Carbs 35% protein 20% fat got lucky on this one LOL

    Its late now but tomorrow I will calculate TDEE and see if I am eating enough calories
    Last edited by Sinister1957; 07-17-2018 at 02:50 AM.

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    Sinister1957 is online now New Member
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    Hi Windex

    I answered most of these questions in a post to Kelkel in this thread

    Thank you for the reply

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    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister1957 View Post
    Hi Kelkel

    It gets better ..apparently my doctor is clueless ...I was told my levels were good again after 3 months or so and He took me off the testosterone .. Backed up by a blood test... He was not in the next time I visited so I used a different doctor in same office.. This doctor gave me a blood test and also said my levels were fine...I have to believe there was probably never a problem with my levels according to what you say about it being an on going treatment and results from 2 latest blood test.

    In any case I read the Sticky and will follow the PCT protocol outlined. I planned on doing a 12 week cycle at this point should I continue on or start taking either a
    aromatase inhibitor (AI) such as Arimidex or Aromasin or Novadex as a precautionary measure while on cycle? I have Novadex on hand. I would have to order AI's and would take about 2 weeks to get.

    BTW ..My Body Fat ranges from 17 - 20% Taken at gym with hand held machine.. I am told that it is not very accurate but that is all I have access to. I am 61 and was told that is excellent for my age do not know if it is good enough for cycle.

    Talk about on the job training. To be honest I probably would have never started this had not my doctor prescribed it for me originally.

    One last thing I have been Dieting eating 2100 calories at 45% Carbs 35% protein 20% fat got lucky on this one LOL

    Its late now but tomorrow I will calculate TDEE and see if I am eating enough calories
    Do you know what your levels were before, during and after?
    Well, I assume your levels were good because you were on testosterone.
    How long between the blood test on T where you were told all was well and your next BW when off testosterone. This would be your natural levels if I'm reading things correctly.
    You need adex or aromasin during your cycle. Order up. You'll be fine for two weeks. If you don't want to wait use a chem site like suggested previously.
    You're fine at that body fat level.
    Remember, we have a Nutrition Forum here where the guys can help you out.
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    Sinister1957 is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Do you know what your levels were before, during and after?
    Well, I assume your levels were good because you were on testosterone .
    How long between the blood test on T where you were told all was well and your next BW when off testosterone. This would be your natural levels if I'm reading things correctly.
    You need adex or aromasin during your cycle. Order up. You'll be fine for two weeks. If you don't want to wait use a chem site like suggested previously.
    You're fine at that body fat level.
    Remember, we have a Nutrition Forum here where the guys can help you out.

    when you say adex do you mean Nolvadex ?

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    Windex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister1957 View Post
    when you say adex do you mean Nolvadex?
    Adex is Arimidex , an Aromatase Inhibitor, it is what is used to control estrogen levels. You always need an AI during a cycle. Men produce estrogen by converting testosterone into estrogen. So when you have high levels of test you need an AI to prevent getting high estrogen and the side effects that come with high estrogen,

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    Sinister1957 is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    Adex is Arimidex, an Aromatase Inhibitor, it is what is used to control estrogen levels. You always need an AI during a cycle. Men produce estrogen by converting testosterone into estrogen. So when you have high levels of test you need an AI to prevent getting high estrogen and the side effects that come with high estrogen,
    Thank You ..ordering it today

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    Sinister1957 is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Do you know what your levels were before, during and after?
    Well, I assume your levels were good because you were on testosterone .
    How long between the blood test on T where you were told all was well and your next BW when off testosterone. This would be your natural levels if I'm reading things correctly.
    You need adex or aromasin during your cycle. Order up. You'll be fine for two weeks. If you don't want to wait use a chem site like suggested previously.
    You're fine at that body fat level.
    Remember, we have a Nutrition Forum here where the guys can help you out.

    I am ordering adex 30 x 1mg from what I read .25mg EOD should be a good starting point ...How can I determine weather to take more or less... Is this even your recommended dosage.

    I will be going over what paper work I have regarding Blood work and will upload for both windex and youself to look at. .. Really appreciate all the help wish I had been a little smarter before I started. Glad I found this site before I did any real harm to myself..BTW I am getting another PCP

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    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister1957 View Post
    I am ordering adex 30 x 1mg from what I read .25mg EOD should be a good starting point ...How can I determine weather to take more or less... Is this even your recommended dosage.

    I will be going over what paper work I have regarding Blood work and will upload for both windex and youself to look at. .. Really appreciate all the help wish I had been a little smarter before I started. Glad I found this site before I did any real harm to myself..BTW I am getting another PCP
    At 400 mgs I'd probably go with .25 M-W-F and keep it simple. Always better to have your E2 a little higher than lower. Remember to pull some BW about 6 weeks in to check levels. There's a list in the First Cycle thread and directions to private labs as well if I recall correctly. If not, just ask or pm me.

    Good idea about the pcp, but I'd wait until after pct before doing any blood work with him/her.
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    Sinister1957 is online now New Member
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    Hi..
    I finished my cycle Did Adex from sixth week on .25 Mon wed and fri and waited I think it was 18 days to start PCT according to sticky.. Waited 5 weeks and did blood test I am attaching results Looks good to me but what do I know lol. I have a back issue right now so I am out of gym for a little while, look to do a second cycle in march.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    time to donate blood

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    Sinister1957 is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    time to donate blood
    Does that mean Im OK ... If it does I will donate... seems like a good thing to do anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister1957 View Post
    Does that mean Im OK ... If it does I will donate... seems like a good thing to do anyway
    I mentioned donating blood because your hemoglobin/hematorcrit levels are out of range and elevated while being OFF cycle (its normal to be elevated on cycle). they may go down naturally on their own over time , but donating at this point may be beneficial and help speed up the process. IF its even a concern for you.

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    Hey guys,
    I dont mean to hi-jack this thread but Im trying to post my first cycle as well and Im getting a message that says Im not allowed to. Can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks

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    Sinister1957 is online now New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I mentioned donating blood because your hemoglobin/hematorcrit levels are out of range and elevated while being OFF cycle (its normal to be elevated on cycle). they may go down naturally on their own over time , but donating at this point may be beneficial and help speed up the process. IF its even a concern for you.
    Thank you ..I will go donate blood ....Is it something I should worry about? About how long before it will level out. I plan on doing another cycle in March
    Last edited by Sinister1957; 12-06-2018 at 10:05 PM.

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