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Thread: Sustanon TRT Dose Year Round vs Natural Training?

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    123kdd100 is offline New Member
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    Arrow Sustanon TRT Dose Year Round vs Natural Training?

    Hey guys, don't know if I'm posting in the right place but here it goes. So i've been on TRT for 1 month now and wondering what kind of results one can expect on 175mg per week of pharma grade Sustanon . I'm not trying to add any other compounds as of yet because I don't think I'm ready or even up the dosage (blast) for a good 10-20 years (even though I could). I inject 50mg every other day to minimize peaks and keep testosterone levels stable. What can a young guy like myself expect to gain year round? I'm obviously not expecting to get bodybuilder big, but I've put on so much strength from the get go in one month than I have for the past 4 years. A lot of people say a TRT dose is the same as natural training and has no advantage what so ever, but I beg to differ. People have peaks throughout the day going from high to lower testosterone , so wouldn't having consistent and high levels (1,200ng/dl at trough) make me put on more muscle than if I was natural? Very curious; if any anecdotal experience/scientific studies please share.
    Thank you,

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    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Going from low T to normal T is of course going to produce a big gain relative to your starting point if your Testosterone levels were infact low. 400 ng to 1200 ng is a 300% increase so of course there is going to be a big difference.

    Invest your time in perfecting your nutrition and training program while your TRT protocol gets dialed in. Also 50mg EOD is not 175mg per week.

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    123kdd100 is offline New Member
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    Thanks for the reply man, I've come from normal testosterone to 70 year old levels in a span of a year (im 20 at the moment). But even when I was at high-normal (800-900) I feel much different now, much more confident and powerful (maybe it's all mental) but I really think there's an advantage that comes with more stability all week long. That being said, my question is more of a scenario where two athletes, one is on TRT and the other isn't but both are on the high-normal end of the range with the exact same genetics, diet, etc. Would the athlete on TRT have a better response because his levels aren't fluctuating at all, while the natural goes through high peaks and drops throughout the day? Also, my bad on that math lol, 50mg eod would put me at 200mg per week right?

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    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123kdd100 View Post
    Thanks for the reply man, I've come from normal testosterone to 70 year old levels in a span of a year (im 20 at the moment). But even when I was at high-normal (800-900) I feel much different now, much more confident and powerful (maybe it's all mental) but I really think there's an advantage that comes with more stability all week long. That being said, my question is more of a scenario where two athletes, one is on TRT and the other isn't but both are on the high-normal end of the range with the exact same genetics, diet, etc. Would the athlete on TRT have a better response because his levels aren't fluctuating at all, while the natural goes through high peaks and drops throughout the day? Also, my bad on that math lol, 50mg eod would put me at 200mg per week right?
    At 4 weeks with Sustanon it's not even fully kicked in yet, it's all in your head. Your question is loaded, but if you want a cookie cutter answer, the difference is going to be very minimal, it doesn't provide an edge like you are hoping for.

    Is your TRT protocol self prescribed or from a Doctor and you are buying it right off the shelf at the pharmacy ?

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    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    Why on earth you want to start TRT at 20 years old? For gains?

    Kids are crazy nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Why on earth you want to start TRT at 20 years old? For gains?

    Kids are crazy nowadays.
    I started trt at 18 im turning 20 soon. It does happen albeit rarely. I put mine down to my fathers steroid use effecting genes in me stopping testosterone production. I can never prove it but its my theory.

    Op make sure you need the treatment. Not want it

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    I started trt at 18 im turning 20 soon. It does happen albeit rarely. I put mine down to my fathers steroid use effecting genes in me stopping testosterone production. I can never prove it but its my theory.

    Op make sure you need the treatment. Not want it
    Well if you have hypogonadism that cant be treated its the only viable option. Did you have total T below 200ng/dl? Primary or secondary?

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    123kdd100 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Why on earth you want to start TRT at 20 years old? For gains?

    Kids are crazy nowadays.

    Lol can you please read? I said I had levels of a 70 year old man before TRT
    Last edited by 123kdd100; 07-21-2018 at 05:39 AM.

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    123kdd100 is offline New Member
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    I've been diagnosed with secondary hypognadism after taking a heavy blow to the head a couple years back (got a concussion) my testosterone gradually declined to 150ng/dl 80-100 year old man levels. I need it more than anyone does trust me lol. Tried treament with my endocronologist for 6 months with no result so he put me on TRT
    Last edited by 123kdd100; 07-21-2018 at 05:35 AM.

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    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Good catch did not see age.

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    123kdd100 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    At 4 weeks with Sustanon it's not even fully kicked in yet, it's all in your head. Your question is loaded, but if you want a cookie cutter answer, the difference is going to be very minimal, it doesn't provide an edge like you are hoping for.

    Is your TRT protocol self prescribed or from a Doctor and you are buying it right off the shelf at the pharmacy ?

    Doctor's prescription, but doctor prescribed Nebido (it sucks because very long ester caused me some severe fluctuations in mood). Lucky for me I live in Kuwait lol, where all steroids are bought from the pharmacy without a prescription.
    Last edited by 123kdd100; 07-21-2018 at 05:37 AM.

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    hollowedzeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Well if you have hypogonadism that cant be treated its the only viable option. Did you have total T below 200ng/dl? Primary or secondary?
    280ng/dl ish is what i think the coversion was. Free t was below range also.

    Neither. Testicles have been shown to produce test when clomid has been introduced however it didny relieve symptoms, only boosted my testosterone to around 1600ng/dl.

    My lh and fsh were fairly normal readings.

    My doctor was conviced after showing multiple blood tests, explaining my rejection from the nhs and 2 different protocols of clomid, one with ai and one without, that i had a form of hypogonadism of some origion.

    Signs dont point to either primary or secondary. I am on nebido at 1000mg every 10 weeks.
    Numbers at my trough are rising from 500ng ish atm and i feel great.

    Ive never sufficiently produced test so i dont feel it can be categorised the same as others. Ive never produced rather than stopped producing unfortunatly.

    Strange case indeed

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    123kdd100 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    280ng/dl ish is what i think the coversion was. Free t was below range also.

    Neither. Testicles have been shown to produce test when clomid has been introduced however it didny relieve symptoms, only boosted my testosterone to around 1600ng/dl.

    My lh and fsh were fairly normal readings.

    My doctor was conviced after showing multiple blood tests, explaining my rejection from the nhs and 2 different protocols of clomid, one with ai and one without, that i had a form of hypogonadism of some origion.

    Signs dont point to either primary or secondary. I am on nebido at 1000mg every 10 weeks.
    Numbers at my trough are rising from 500ng ish atm and i feel great.

    Ive never sufficiently produced test so i dont feel it can be categorised the same as others. Ive never produced rather than stopped producing unfortunatly.

    Strange case indeed
    Have you tried changing up to a shorter ester? Nebido made me go through alot of ups and downs, switching to a shorter ester made me feel much more stable

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    Mr.BB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123kdd100 View Post
    Lol can you please read? I said I had levels of a 70 year old man before TRT
    Could only read after you typed next post.

    Quote Originally Posted by 123kdd100 View Post
    I've been diagnosed with secondary hypognadism after taking a heavy blow to the head a couple years back (got a concussion) my testosterone gradually declined to 150ng/dl 80-100 year old man levels. I need it more than anyone does trust me lol. Tried treament with my endocronologist for 6 months with no result so he put me on TRT
    Understand, blow to the head can do that.

    You should have persisted with nebido, it is the most stable protocol. It does take time to feel its actions, Im on nebido myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 123kdd100 View Post
    Have you tried changing up to a shorter ester? Nebido made me go through alot of ups and downs, switching to a shorter ester made me feel much more stable
    Ive never used shorter esters. From research and feedback from members here sought after nebido over sustanon . Its stability and convenience are excellent.

    I was willing to pay cash for nebido by doing it privately until a kind gp took over prescription. Its £110 per injection. I think its well worth it.

    Im on 8 months in and its still getting better. Takes a long time to gear up so to speak. Only recently have i been able to get an maintain an erection without the use of cialis

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    The lows of the weeks just before shots at the start of nebido are absolutely horrendous so i understand where you are coming from but i persevered

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    Have you considered using a long ester for TRT? Sus isn't very good for TRT because you have to inject it so often to maintain bloods. I'm at 150mg/wk and I pin once a week.

    What you can expect @ 175mg/wk? You can expect to see lower belly fat, more energy, more "ruddy" look in the face, more tone in your muscle (I said tone not muscular hypertrophy like a bodybuilder), and overall increase in sense of well being. TRT's a miracle for those with low T.

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    123kdd100 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollowedzeus View Post
    The lows of the weeks just before shots at the start of nebido are absolutely horrendous so i understand where you are coming from but i persevered
    Those lows are what made me stop nebido, and TBH Sustanon was a great decision for me. If I could get my hands on Test-E it would be even better but I live in a country where Sustanon and Nebido are my only options

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    123kdd100 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02 View Post
    Have you considered using a long ester for TRT? Sus isn't very good for TRT because you have to inject it so often to maintain bloods. I'm at 150mg/wk and I pin once a week.

    What you can ex.
    I have, i've tried it out for 2 months (1 injection of 1000mg every 2 months) before making a decision about it. Those are exactly the kind of benefits I'm feeling atm, and i'm loving the confidence boost it gives me in the gym to perform much more. I feel like I could push myself really hard and barely feel any soreness the next day which is awesome.

    Kind of offtopic, but I've found out that I have lower DHEA levels 2.9 at a reference range of 2.1-15.0) . Should I supplement 50mg everyday of DHEA? My libido at the moment is almost non-existant (my estrogen is optimal at 28 pmol/l) and free testosterone is very high

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    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123kdd100 View Post
    Those lows are what made me stop nebido, and TBH Sustanon was a great decision for me. If I could get my hands on Test-E it would be even better but I live in a country where Sustanon and Nebido are my only options
    Sustanon makes zero sense for TRT, it's the worst option. When you look at the breakdown of the compound you see half the dose per mL is short esters and the other half is long esters. If you don't pin Sustanon every other day then you lose half the compound. Let's say you have Sustanon 250, which is

    30mg Test Prop
    60mg Test phenylprop
    60mg Test iso
    100mg Test decanoate

    Let's make the math easy and say you are on 125mg/week (0.5mL). If you pin using the traditional protocol of every 3.5 days you are throwing 45mg of your Test out the window every week because of the terminal half life of the Esters of Prop and Phenyl Prop. Therefore, to avoid this you'd have to pin every other day instead of twice per week. At that point if you are pinning every other day you may as well just be using Test Prop with no blend.

    On the flip side, if you pinned twice a week, then Test C or Test E is superior because you don't have part of the compound go to waste.

    I would take Nebido over Test C/E in a heartbeat if I had the option for it for my TRT. Unfortunately, North America doesn't offer it.

    If the peaks/valleys of the hormone levels are a concern for you then I don't see why you can't pin Nebido twice per week just like a Test E or Test C. There's no "rule" that long Esters have to be pinned less often, only the reverse applies where short Esters must be pinned frequently.
    cousinmuscles likes this.

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    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123kdd100 View Post
    I have, i've tried it out for 2 months (1 injection of 1000mg every 2 months) before making a decision about it. Those are exactly the kind of benefits I'm feeling atm, and i'm loving the confidence boost it gives me in the gym to perform much more. I feel like I could push myself really hard and barely feel any soreness the next day which is awesome.

    Kind of offtopic, but I've found out that I have lower DHEA levels 2.9 at a reference range of 2.1-15.0) . Should I supplement 50mg everyday of DHEA? My libido at the moment is almost non-existant (my estrogen is optimal at 28 pmol/l) and free testosterone is very high

    Can you clarify - have you only been on TRT for 2 months ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    I would take Nebido over Test C/E in a heartbeat if I had the option for it for my TRT. Unfortunately, North America doesn't offer it.
    They don't offer Nebido but the do offer Aveed. Same product but 750 mgs (thanks FDA) instead of 1000.
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    I'm doing daily test prop 50 (no solvent) sub q @ 25mg a day.

    I feel great. Even better than when on 500mg of test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    They don't offer Nebido but the do offer Aveed. Same product but 750 mgs (thanks FDA) instead of 1000.
    Neat, thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    Can you clarify - have you only been on TRT for 2 months ?
    I'm going to be moving very soon and Test E/Test C could be an option for me. I've been on TRT for 3 1/2 months in total, 2 months on nebido and 1 1/2 months on Sustanon . I'm injecting Sustanon EOD as you have suggested. Should I just be more patient with my Libido and wait a month or two and stop taking DHEA, i've decided on 25mg before bed. Endo told me that TRT takes 5 months before I get my sex drive back, but alot of people report getting their sex drive almost immediately so I'm unsure on what to do.

    Might give Nebido another try and inject it once every week because I had a better sex drive, but more ups and downs with my depression.

    Also Test prop isn't sold anywhere unfortunately.
    Last edited by 123kdd100; 07-27-2018 at 11:09 AM.

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    Sustanon is just a trade name for a mix of test esters, I am on TRT therapy and I cannot even get real Organon Sust from the Pharmacy. The esters blended in Sust are to keep your body on some form of level Test level for a month, though it never lasted me more than three weeks. If you're pinning it every week, then you are cycling, plain and simple. EOD pinning of Sust is just a waste of needles and injection sites, it has long esters that last up to a month. There are four esters, if I remember rightly, and you can feel good really quickly, but at the level you are pinning, you will be loaded with test long enough to just go weekly on an enanthate , or monthly with a decanoate. TRT does indeed keep one's body at normal male levels, but you are not hi-lighting TRT. What you have is a test cycle, nothing less. Higher levels of test will indeed give you muscle gains if you diet and workout, but it will also shut down your nuts and increase the estrogen bi-product. You may as well start studying aromatase inhibitors now, 'cause if your body is sensitive, you will start growing tits in the near future.

    I guess the problem I have with the OP is that you are kidding yourself. You are cycling. P.s. you tagged into a post that began in 2010.

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    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    It's not uncommon for it to take up to a year before TRT is completely dialed in. 3 and a half months is nothing - need to be a lot more patient

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    Quote Originally Posted by shirlsguy View Post
    Sustanon is just a trade name for a mix of test esters, I am on TRT therapy and I cannot even get real Organon Sust from the Pharmacy. The esters blended in Sust are to keep your body on some form of level Test level for a month, though it never lasted me more than three weeks. If you're pinning it every week, then you are cycling, plain and simple. EOD pinning of Sust is just a waste of needles and injection sites, it has long esters that last up to a month. There are four esters, if I remember rightly, and you can feel good really quickly, but at the level you are pinning, you will be loaded with test long enough to just go weekly on an enanthate , or monthly with a decanoate. TRT does indeed keep one's body at normal male levels, but you are not hi-lighting TRT. What you have is a test cycle, nothing less. Higher levels of test will indeed give you muscle gains if you diet and workout, but it will also shut down your nuts and increase the estrogen bi-product. You may as well start studying aromatase inhibitors now, 'cause if your body is sensitive, you will start growing tits in the near future.

    I guess the problem I have with the OP is that you are kidding yourself. You are cycling. P.s. you tagged into a post that began in 2010.
    Yes, i've studied and researched TRT for 5 months before even considering it. I'm very aware of AI's, and no I don't need an AI as my body doesn't convert alot of test into estrogen, and im an anastrozole over-responder. With that being said, taking 1/32 of an arimidex 1mg pill crashes me so hard, it takes a couple weeks for my body to recover. How am I on a test cycle; I dont understand? 50mg eod translates into 200mg of Sustanon, and only 70% of that converts to pure testosterone . Actually, on average my body is taking in only 175mg of Sustanon since EOD translates into approximately 3.5 times a week.. Please enlighten me on why I am running a test cycle and not a TRT dose. Esters don't really matter if managed properly, and there is no such thing as a one way approach, some people respond to drugs differently than others and saying that your approach is the only way makes me not want to take your advice. You're right about injection sites and that is why I'm thinking of mixing it up with Subq and IM.

    If my Estrogen does end up overextending in the future, I have an AI on deck but I really hope I wont have to use it as my body may deplete all my estrogen instead of being more moderate.

    Also, pharmaceutical Sustanon is common in Kuwait, it's actually the most popular choice here for bodybuilders.
    Last edited by 123kdd100; 07-27-2018 at 01:22 PM.

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    123kdd100 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    It's not uncommon for it to take up to a year before TRT is completely dialed in. 3 and a half months is nothing - need to be a lot more patient
    Understood. Maybe i'm rushing into things a bit too quickly, but so far so good thanks for your input.

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