I can’t breathe

**Doublewide1** · 07-09-2018, 05:51 PM

I’m 48
Been working out since college
Have done numerous cycles
Last cycle was probably 15 years ago
6’ 205 lbs

Started cycle of Test Prop and NPP at 300mgs eod about 10 weeks ago. Started at 192 lbs. and within a month I was at 216 lbs. I have Arimidex and Aromosin on hand which I did not think I would need. No nipple problems but I think jumping up that fast required some Arimidex so I took a low dose for a week. Weight went down but strength still going way up. I’m almost as strong as I was when I did my last cycle and I was doing a much larger cycle including 6 months of HGH.

I get up yesterday morning having a hard time breathing. I’ve had minor breathing problems for the past few weeks. Nothing major just longer rests between sets.

Yesterday was a whole different ballgame. I could hardly walk across the room without being totally out of breath. Like I walk across the room and have to take a few minutes to catch my breath.

So I get water pills and start pounding water. This went on all day. I woke up much, much better today but there is no way I could go run a block.

I’m thinking I just totally screwed up my AI. So I’m cutting the NPP down to half and will start Aromison or Arimidex (not sure which is best) at a low dose ed and hope that will solve the problem.

Sorry for the long post but any suggestions for dumb old man would be appreciated.

**Doublewide1** · 07-10-2018, 05:04 PM

Is anybody out there? Does anybody care?

Breathing problems are still there but much better which is surprising. I went to give blood today thinking that might help. I do have blood pressure pills and figured it was high so I took a pill before I went. Everything was a go. I passed all the tests including blood pressure. One problem: My resting heart rate was 166. She did it twice and it was about the same. So I could not give blood. I am cycling down to end cycle.

Again, any thoughts would really help. Where did I go wrong?

**Mr.BB** · 07-10-2018, 05:07 PM

Go to the hospital or call 911.

Don't waste time reading forums when you can have a serious condition.

**guitarzan** · 07-10-2018, 06:06 PM

Resting hr is 166????? Holy shit man, go to the er

**David LoPanno** · 07-10-2018, 06:13 PM

I would hall my butt to minor ER or ER and get checked out. Could be a number of things not related to your cycle like heart attack, PE or a fib. Always better safe than sorry.

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**guitarzan** · 07-10-2018, 06:16 PM

You probably having a hard time breathing cause your heart is running a marathon

**Dannyboy51577** · 07-10-2018, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by guitarzan

You probably having a hard time breathing cause your heart is running a marathon

Yeah no kidding, you shouldve been at the er a couple days ago. If you havent already, get checked out now. They need to get that hr down now.

I had it happen once as a result of a certain drug - got my hr up to about 150 - thats damn noticeable, i could feel it beating out of my chest and the back of my head.

**guitarzan** · 07-10-2018, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dannyboy51577

Yeah no kidding, you shouldve been at the er a couple days ago. If you havent already, get checked out now. They need to get that hr down now.

I had it happen once as a result of a certain drug - got my hr up to about 150 - thats damn noticeable, i could feel it beating out of my chest and the back of my head.

They give you beta blockers?

**Quester** · 07-10-2018, 07:03 PM

It doesn't sound like your breathing and heart rate problems have anything to do with the gear. Go get checked out immediately. Not sure I would even mention the gear as it will likely bias the medical staff against finding the true reason for your emergency.

**Chrisp83TRT** · 07-10-2018, 07:15 PM

Like others said ... ER .... NOW

**guitarzan** · 07-10-2018, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Quester

It doesn't sound like your breathing and heart rate problems have anything to do with the gear. Go get checked out immediately. Not sure I would even mention the gear as it will likely bias the medical staff against finding the true reason for your emergency.

Yes, I agree. When I told doc about gear when I had blood clot, he automatically blamed the gear. Luckily the vascular doc told me it was from my gallbladder surgery, and aas didn't cause it

**hammerheart** · 07-10-2018, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Doublewide1

Is anybody out there? Does anybody care?

Breathing problems are still there but much better which is surprising. I went to give blood today thinking that might help. I do have blood pressure pills and figured it was high so I took a pill before I went. Everything was a go. I passed all the tests including blood pressure. One problem: My resting heart rate was 166. She did it twice and it was about the same. So I could not give blood. I am cycling down to end cycle.

Again, any thoughts would really help. Where did I go wrong?

From the sound of it your heart or lungs are having an hard time perfusing blood and tissues with oxygen, no matter if gear is related this need a visit to the ER asap.

I'd cut out the NPP completely. Avoid any strenuous physical activity until you got this sorted out.

**ryobi1** · 07-10-2018, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.BB

Go to the hospital or call 911.

Don't waste time reading forums when you can have a serious condition.

agree with this and other poster, you could have a medical condition

**Doublewide1** · 07-11-2018, 01:57 AM

I really appreciate the feedback. I know I need to go to ER and will in morning. I am like most. ER is my last resort. I think I could also have bad gear. This started right after I poppped the top on a new bottle of Test Prop.

This started a few days ago. So I am getting off the gear. Small taper. So I cut my prop in half today. Same thing rapid heart rate. I drank tons of water and I was fine yesterday. Heart pounding just stopped. Today I took that one tiny shot and it almost immediately hard to breathe.

I’ve got pulse down to 110. Still high but going down. Also just took a beta blocker.

So another question is do I even tell the doctor that I’m using AAS?

I do actually have beta blockers at the house

**hammerheart** · 07-11-2018, 02:16 AM

You shouldn't be using any BP med you don't have high BP the elevated heart rate might underlie and/or compensate some other issue going on

FFS stop listening to bro talking and get to the ER.

**Arcânn** · 07-11-2018, 05:03 AM

Sounds more like a personal medical issue than a gear issue, but IMO, the gear is probably making the condition worse. But yeah dude, fuck these forums when your life might actually be in danger. There shouldn't have been an "ER in the morning". You should probably go ASAP. Hopefully by the time you read this, you've already been. I wouldn't risk waiting around man.

**Doublewide1** · 07-11-2018, 05:59 AM

Heading to ER in morning. My BP was very high but the meds brought that down to normal. Heeding everyone’s advice and h4ading to ER this morning. I wanted one Day where I could fix it myself. I am not the only dumbass out there that would have waited last resort to go ER. I’m the type that if I was choking on food at dinner I would get up and go the bathroom and die. Not really but pretty close.

I am not going to tell doc about AAS use. Does everyone agree?

Again, thanks for your comments. Sometimes you need to be told you are an idiot. All you guys shot me straight and that is all I needed. It may not be the gear. I had no problems at all for first 10 weeks. In fact, I was building up to being as strong as I was when I did my last cycle 15 years ago. And that cycle was complete with a higher dose of test, I know I added something to that but can’t remember. I was also on HGH for six months. No problem then at all unless you consider looking great and lifting heavy weight a problem.

**David LoPanno** · 07-11-2018, 09:31 AM

Tell them you took your that beta blocker. Bad thing about a beta blocker is it can cause ED. I would not say anything about gear, they don’t know crap about it and it is not good to have in your electronic medical record.

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**Couchlockd** · 07-11-2018, 09:56 AM

The conundrum;
Get the real help you need by total disclosure
Or
Lie and try to psuedi self diagnose to doctor and skew his diagnosis and get nothing acomplished

**Arcânn** · 07-11-2018, 11:18 AM

I would probably wait to mention the gear. Like another person said, that might skew their diagnosis and cause them to blame the gear right off the bat. If they do blood test and mention something about high test or something else being the problem, then maybe tell them. Or if they just can't seem to figure out what it could possibly be, I'd mention it.

None of us know, and the doctors won't even know what it is at first, but to ME personally, it sounds like an underlying issue that the gear is making worse or maybe just triggering. But that's just my opinion that I'm adding to the collective possibilities.

**i_SLAM_cougars** · 07-11-2018, 12:00 PM

Sounds similar to the condition a friend of mine was in when he had blood clots in his lungs. He wrote it off as bronchitis (which he had at the time) until he went to the doctor and they rushed him to the hospital because he was about to die

**guitarzan** · 07-11-2018, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Arcânn

I would probably wait to mention the gear. Like another person said, that might skew their diagnosis and cause them to blame the gear right off the bat. If they do blood test and mention something about high test or something else being the problem, then maybe tell them. Or if they just can't seem to figure out what it could possibly be, I'd mention it.

None of us know, and the doctors won't even know what it is at first, but to ME personally, it sounds like an underlying issue that the gear is making worse or maybe just triggering. But that's just my opinion that I'm adding to the collective possibilities.

I agree with this

**Doublewide1** · 07-11-2018, 04:57 PM

Just got back from doctor. I am lucky my wife works for a huge group of cardiologists. She was able to get me in to speak with a cardiologist this morning. Heart doctors are either “plumbers” or “electricians”. The guy I met was a regular cardiologist but said to hold on and he was able to get us an appointment with a world renown doctor that is an electrical guy. He is kind of my wife’s boss but she did not want to bother him because he is so busy but he made time right away.

I did not mention this because I really did not think it was the problem. I started having a fib problems when I was 20. I’m now 48. What is funny is my wife works for the same doctors group I have used since I was 20. Ironic. I have had two atrial ablutions and a cardio version (hit you with paddles, clear). But it hardly ever happens now. And I can almost always fix it by taking a major dose of a medicine. The major dose is not what I decided to do myself but what my doctor said to do.

But, this seems different. I’m coughing quite a bit. The medicine I usually take to stop a fib did not work. It just feels different. Anyway, he gave me meds to slow my heart down (beta blocker). I tried those as well before but those did not work.

So I will take the meds and see what happens. Hopefully, it’s as simple as that. This is why I was not horribly worried to get to ER so fast when my heart starts freaking out. When I was younger it would happen all the time. I felt I had a few days to to figure it out.

What’s funny is my heart is very healthy. These guys work with Cowboys players and they say my stress tests are better than them. Probably a fat ass lineman but I’ll take it. It’s an electrical problem my heart is healthy. It just ‘misfires” sometimes which causes it to go out of rhythm.

Still want to thank everyone. I’m not completely sold that is my only problem but will keep my fingers crossed.

Now I need a shot of prop.

**Couchlockd** · 07-11-2018, 05:00 PM

If you have serious underlying heart conditions you need to give the gear a break or leave it alone completely you're not that young anymore not many of us are

**70rs** · 07-12-2018, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Doublewide1

Just got back from doctor. I am lucky my wife works for a huge group of cardiologists. She was able to get me in to speak with a cardiologist this morning. Heart doctors are either “plumbers” or “electricians”. The guy I met was a regular cardiologist but said to hold on and he was able to get us an appointment with a world renown doctor that is an electrical guy. He is kind of my wife’s boss but she did not want to bother him because he is so busy but he made time right away.

I did not mention this because I really did not think it was the problem. I started having a fib problems when I was 20. I’m now 48. What is funny is my wife works for the same doctors group I have used since I was 20. Ironic. I have had two atrial ablutions and a cardio version (hit you with paddles, clear). But it hardly ever happens now. And I can almost always fix it by taking a major dose of a medicine. The major dose is not what I decided to do myself but what my doctor said to do.

But, this seems different. I’m coughing quite a bit. The medicine I usually take to stop a fib did not work. It just feels different. Anyway, he gave me meds to slow my heart down (beta blocker). I tried those as well before but those did not work.

So I will take the meds and see what happens. Hopefully, it’s as simple as that. This is why I was not horribly worried to get to ER so fast when my heart starts freaking out. When I was younger it would happen all the time. I felt I had a few days to to figure it out.

What’s funny is my heart is very healthy. These guys work with Cowboys players and they say my stress tests are better than them. Probably a fat ass lineman but I’ll take it. It’s an electrical problem my heart is healthy. It just ‘misfires” sometimes which causes it to go out of rhythm.

Still want to thank everyone. I’m not completely sold that is my only problem but will keep my fingers crossed.

Now I need a shot of prop.

I'm I. Similar boat,with afib,haven't had to take anything for it in a while,no blood thinners or anything, always come out of afib on my own wich is good, except for the first year it happened, had to have conversion, but anyway, last week was extremely hot were I work, and was having some breathing problems, started taking aspirin as a blood thinner and problems went away,only bothers me in extreme heat, steroids thicken the blood so you might want to look into that .

**Test Monsterone** · 07-15-2018, 07:15 PM

Maybe OP should lower the dose to 150-200 mg/week. Logically I would think putting on 20+ lbs of muscle in a few weeks is taxing on the cardiovascular system. I would get a BP monitor at home and use it a few times a day to see how you stand. I take 2-3000 mg of L-arginine an hour before my workouts to relax the arteries, but I'm not sure if it does anything.

**Quester** · 07-15-2018, 07:31 PM

EDIT:
So, I posted a video to a youtubve link where they couldn't decide if someone was dead or not. Now, I know to purists this might as well be a video link to a smashed frog video lasting :06 but, for some reason, I've learned to be a little more tactful and I now use much better judgement. Happy to hear your not dead, ENJOY CYCLING!!!

**Aerospace** · 07-15-2018, 09:50 PM

You should go to the doctor.
You should also remove anything with strong thermogenic properties from your life.

**Doublewide1** · 07-18-2018, 09:50 PM

After my last post. Breathing got much worse. It took my 250 lb 18 year old to basically carry me to my wife’s car. I’ve had afib for almost 30 years and when it goes into a fib it acts the same. Apperently this one was different. Looking back it may have going on for months. I remember it taking longer between sets. I thought it was because I was lifting a lot more weight. I won’t bore you with the detail but I spent 5 days in cardiac IU. My heart went too long and finally just gave up. Keep in mind I have been tested and have a very healthy heart except when you have something like this. Again, I won6 go into detail but this was about as serious as it gets. My heart output was 15. Means it was working at 15% max. I was going to get cardio verted but started seizing. Doctor calls Code Red and is screaming for the real paddles. My wife there were at least 20 people working on me. I’m lucky I have a world class cardiovascular hospital only 5 miles at most from my house.

So, although I thought these were two of the safest roids out there at a ralatively low dose, I am coming off until I get more answers. I was unable to take a shot of prop or npp for 6 days. I look like total shit from all the trauma and weird water weight. Not sure if it was right thing to do but I took a shot when I got home. I will then slowly come off. By slowly I mean a week or two. Then follow up with PCT. I think this had nothing to do with the roids. But think it best to break from it to cleanse. Does this seem like the correct procedure for coming off.

**Test Monsterone** · 07-19-2018, 04:02 PM

Consult with your doctor, but I don't think coming off completely is necessarily the answer. It might put more stress on your body having to go through the rebound of estrogen, testosterone suppression, depression, etc. At 48 you probably need TRT anyway so I would do about 200 mg a week of test only. Maybe even less.

**cousinmuscles** · 07-19-2018, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

Consult with your doctor, but I don't think coming off completely is necessarily the answer. It might put more stress on your body having to go through the rebound of estrogen, testosterone suppression, depression, etc. At 48 you probably need TRT anyway so I would do about 200 mg a week of test only. Maybe even less.

Hello, I don't mean to make this an attack towards you but it is best to inform and explain why this is bad advice as it is on a public forum, many people read it. 200mg is way beyond a TRT dose and will lead to health issues down the road, not to mention we do not know what/why the OP had issues, this may very well make sure they do not go away. 200mg enanthate /cypionate is about twice as much as a man in their late teens/early twenties produces. With beyond natural levels of test you have beyond natural production of red blood cells, enlargement of the heart, impacts lipids in a negative way, brings estrogen up to beyond natural levels which brings a host of other health issues by itself... This is bad internet knowledge of guys being too eager thinking if they up the "cruise" dose they'll maintain their gains much better. Somehow this is passed around all the time and people think it's healthy. Hell some people think pros "cruise" on a gram of test or some shit and actually believe that is sustainable.

Rebound of estrogen - if test levels go down so does estrogen, for it to rebound, test levels have to go way up. There simply can't be a rebound of estrogen if you come off of a cycle. Depression/inability to recover from a cycle is not the norm. If you had shitty test levels before cycle and needed TRT to begin with then of course even after your PCT, your test levels will slowly drop to where they were. But for now the OPs best decision is not to play doctor on his own body but have a real doctor monitor them and tell them what to do. Of course explain to the doctor what you have done in order to get the help you need... and if they don't know, inform them that they will suffer from low test levels so the doctor can check if their issues get exarcerbated by that.

**Test Monsterone** · 07-19-2018, 08:26 PM

You're right, I didn't mean to offer any real advice, other than an opinion really. I based my thoughts about the 200 mg/week on the fact that I read a bunch of comments on people who said their levels were around 1000 ng/dl with 200 mg a week. I also thought 200/week is a lot better than 600, but I'm not going to argue with your experience - hell, I'm here to learn. OP hope you take your Dr's advice and play it safe.

**Doublewide1** · 07-19-2018, 10:45 PM

Thanks for help. Right now I’m going to cycle off but my test levels are low. Not low enough for insurance to pay but enough that a beautiful woman can lay on my bed and I would, obviously, take action but it’s low. My wife is hot (wife #2. Had to go way younger in that position) and I have to really try to get motivated to have sex with her. I do it but have to constantly work on it.

I see my main cardiologist on Monday so questions will be answered. I fully intend to do self TRT beginning closer to the end of the year.

300 mgs Prop w/ 300mgs of NPP a week is what I was doing. I have literally been wearing my wife out since starting. So we went from having relations about once a week to almost everyday. And I’m kicking ass. No limits. What’s funny is she does not know I’m doing this. She has no idea what hit her. She is like what the hell happened to him.

I’m not going back to where I was. I’ll research it and figure out my best doseage. Will switch to Enanthate . Once a week shots are sounding nice right now.

I 100% believe that these steroids had zero to do with what happened to me.

**Quester** · 07-21-2018, 07:50 AM

Enanthate still requires 2xweekly dosing to stay at stable blood levels. Just go see a TRT doc or do TRT telemed. Glad your feeling better!

**Doublewide1** · 07-22-2018, 07:59 PM

I have two good friends that are doctors. They will monitor my blood work and vitals for free. My insurance believes you have to become a woman before they pay.

Test Enanthate twice a week? Always heard once a week with both Enanthate and Cyp. I chose Enanthate because it is not bad for your liver.

Thanks for help and well wishes.

**Windex** · 07-22-2018, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by Doublewide1

I have two good friends that are doctors. They will monitor my blood work and vitals for free. My insurance believes you have to become a woman before they pay.

Test Enanthate twice a week? Always heard once a week with both Enanthate and Cyp. I chose Enanthate because it is not bad for your liver.

Thanks for help and well wishes.

If your "doctors" provided you that information then you need to find new doctors because they do not understand how hormones work. The only difference between Test E and Test C is the ester. The liver component makes zero sense. Once a week for Test is a very old protocol that is very poor at maintaining blood levels. When test levels are not stable, you're other hormones go off balance

**Windex** · 07-22-2018, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by Doublewide1

Thanks for help. Right now I’m going to cycle off but my test levels are low. Not low enough for insurance to pay but enough that a beautiful woman can lay on my bed and I would, obviously, take action but it’s low. My wife is hot (wife #2. Had to go way younger in that position) and I have to really try to get motivated to have sex with her. I do it but have to constantly work on it.

I see my main cardiologist on Monday so questions will be answered. I fully intend to do self TRT beginning closer to the end of the year.

300 mgs Prop w/ 300mgs of NPP a week is what I was doing. I have literally been wearing my wife out since starting. So we went from having relations about once a week to almost everyday. And I’m kicking ass. No limits. What’s funny is she does not know I’m doing this. She has no idea what hit her. She is like what the hell happened to him.

I’m not going back to where I was. I’ll research it and figure out my best doseage. Will switch to Enanthate . Once a week shots are sounding nice right now.

I 100% believe that these steroids had zero to do with what happened to me.

This is very foolish - do not try to pretend you are an Endo or have a PhD in Andrology. There are 101 problems that can cause low test, 100 of which are correctable without the need of a lifelong commitment of steroids .

Let's be realistic and say you live to 70 years old. You self diagnose TRT and in 12 months you have the same problem. You get tests done, see a doctor/specialist/etc and discover it was actually B, C, or D causing low test instead of A that easily fixed via X, Y, or Z. Now you are stuck on TRT, and are going to spend $1000/year (approx) for the next 22 years on something you didn't actually need.

Would you rather stab yourself with a needle, twice a week, every week, for the rest of your life, or have 22 THOUSAND dollars to spend on whatever you want?

**Doublewide1** · 07-23-2018, 06:51 AM

You’re right. I will go to TRT doc first. My “doctor” (unsure why we are putting quote marks around doctor. They did not give me the fact that test e is safer on liver than cyp. You’re right, they know little about TRT and are against me doing any steroids . They just said they would help me with blood work and vitals just because I’m stubborn. Believe me they are doing it because they care. I have never bothered with them before.

I totally agree that test e and cyp are practically the same. Indeed, my once a week theory is very old. Again, I’m just getting back into the game after over 15 years. 500 mgs once a week. I’ve done this many times a long time ago with great success.

I know what I read so I am catching up. As far as the liver goes I have read this on numerous sites: “Testosterone Enanthate is not toxic to the liver. This steroid will present no stress or damage to the vital organ.” I have not read that about Cyp but it could very well be safe for liver.

I did read that the half life is about one day longer with cyp than test. But, you are right, looks like the half life is about 10 days for E and 11 for cyp. Requiring shots every 5 to 6 days.

I appreciate your advice. I will go to TRT Doctor first. Initial visits are cheap. Thanks for caring.

**cousinmuscles** · 07-23-2018, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Doublewide1

You’re right. I will go to TRT doc first. My “doctor” (unsure why we are putting quote marks around doctor. They did not give me the fact that test e is safer on liver than cyp. You’re right, they know little about TRT and are against me doing any steroids . They just said they would help me with blood work and vitals just because I’m stubborn. Believe me they are doing it because they care. I have never bothered with them before.

I totally agree that test e and cyp are practically the same. Indeed, my once a week theory is very old. Again, I’m just getting back into the game after over 15 years. 500 mgs once a week. I’ve done this many times a long time ago with great success.

I know what I read so I am catching up. As far as the liver goes I have read this on numerous sites: “Testosterone Enanthate is not toxic to the liver. This steroid will present no stress or damage to the vital organ.” I have not read that about Cyp but it could very well be safe for liver.

I did read that the half life is about one day longer with cyp than test. But, you are right, looks like the half life is about 10 days for E and 11 for cyp. Requiring shots every 5 to 6 days.

I appreciate your advice. I will go to TRT Doctor first. Initial visits are cheap. Thanks for caring.

Cypionate is an ester. An ester is a fatty acid. The ester is attached to the hormone molecule so that it breaks down slowly in the body, otherwise if you shot pure testosterone you'd have to inject several times per day. Cypionate isn't harmful and breaks down pretty much at the same speed as enanthate .

Also that half life info is wrong, it is between 5 and 7 days for enanthate/cypionate.

**Test Monsterone** · 07-23-2018, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by Windex

This is very foolish - do not try to pretend you are an Endo or have a PhD in Andrology. There are 101 problems that can cause low test, 100 of which are correctable without the need of a lifelong commitment of steroids .

Let's be realistic and say you live to 70 years old. You self diagnose TRT and in 12 months you have the same problem. You get tests done, see a doctor/specialist/etc and discover it was actually B, C, or D causing low test instead of A that easily fixed via X, Y, or Z. Now you are stuck on TRT, and are going to spend $1000/year (approx) for the next 22 years on something you didn't actually need.

Would you rather stab yourself with a needle, twice a week, every week, for the rest of your life, or have 22 THOUSAND dollars to spend on whatever you want?

$1000 a year? The cheapest TRT clinic in my area is $2400 / year.

It sounds like you are talking about a 22 year old guy, not a 48 year old man. At 48, if he did steroids in the past, guaranteed his natural levels are low. I'm 32 and mine were 471 when I checked and I never did steroids.

Also, while I don't pin (yet), I don't think it would take longer than 2 minutes to do so. Doesn't seem so bad, rather than live with low-t. I don't think there is anything that will put you in the "upper range" at 48. A few minutes a week is probably worth feeling great.

Just my opinion.