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Thread: Insulin + AAS CYCLE NO HGH Help!

  1. #1
    Hattacker3 is offline New Member
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    Insulin + AAS CYCLE NO HGH Help!

    Hey everyone!

    Long time lurker, i'll cut straight to the point. Been lifting on and off for years, have cycled many compounds before in different doses like Test, Winny, DNP , Tren , Dbol , Var etc.

    So lately i'm very low on cash and want to give insulin a shot. Obviously it's going to be a mass building cycle. I hope you don't get the wrong idea, my diet is dialed in brutally. I want to make the most lean muscle gain i can in the bulk cycle. I read here and some other sites that insulin helps recovery and if used right, can lead to immense gains even without HGH. Obviously HGH and Insulin counter balance each other to give the most growth possible but i'm curious as to what AAS would have a synergistic effect with insulin and how should i go about it? I want to take the most rapid acting insulin pre workout and post workout along with the carb protocols. I will be monitoring blood glucose so that is not an issue.

    So far i have thought up of:

    Weeks 1-20: Test E - 900mg
    Weeks 1-4: Anadrol - 100mg
    Weeks ?-?: Insulin - ? IU

    So you get the missing piece of the puzzle, please critique my current cycle. I have left question marks on the insulin dosing because i do not have enough knowledge of it and i am still researching it. This is a cycle planned for October so i'm not jumping into this. I know this is not the Insulin sub forum but if anyone can chime in and help in all aspects i would be really grateful.

    What roids should i stack to get the most bang for buck? Are there cheaper options available as money is kind of low(Sorry no tren). How should i dose my insulin? I'm asking with you guys knowing that my diet is good and my training is great. Thank you

  2. #2
    Couchlockd's Avatar
    Couchlockd is offline Senior Member
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    Insulin is not dosed per week, it's dosed per meal prep and post workout

    Research before you kill yourself
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  3. #3
    David LoPan's Avatar
    David LoPan is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    I am not a fan of A bombs. To hard on the liver. Your profile says you are 21, is that correct? Do have a budget for PCT? HCG ? At your age I would suggest staying far away from Insulin . Adding that to your cycle is not cheap and it can kill you. You are going to spend a lot of money just on testing supplies.

  4. #4
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    I am confused as to how you have no problem affording 900mg of Test per week + Anadrol , and what I hope to assume HCG , AI, and PCT but you say you have budget constraints.

  5. #5
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    AlphaMindz is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    You're not ready for insulin man. That is a drug for serious competitive body builders and I would not recommend using it as too many things can go wrong, especially if you don't have a coach giving you specific protocols and monitoring your dosing.

    I was looking into insulin myself, and I am working on competing and have a coach, but I decided against it.

    The physiques from the 70's, which are my favorite looking physiques, were not built using insulin. As a matter of fact, the physiques of the 90's and 2000's where guys were getting HUGE and also blocky looking were built using insulin so keep in mind what kind of body you're ultimately trying to achieve.

    That's my two cents. I wouldn't do it at all, but if you decide that's what you want then you really need a lot more experience to start messing with insulin because unlike gear and growth, insulin CAN kill you if you make one mistake. Not worth it! Just like DNP isn't worth it for burning fat cause it can also kill you. There are different and better ways to make gains or lose fat...

  6. #6
    Hattacker3 is offline New Member
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    Ah right, I am on TRT(Naturally severely low T levels) so i don't really need alot of PCT. I have 25 aromasin on hand which i already stocked up and i have alot of experience using different roids. I was asking for advice on how i can improve this plan. I am not going to jump into it, I know insulin is taking at meals and i will start off with 10g carb per IU and slowly ramp down. What roids fit together really well with slin and give the best overall combined results?

    I know diet is key and i have it down. The budget restraint was in the sense that i can not get HGH otherwise i would run the turbo full HGH + slin. I know slin still works without HGH and was looking for compounds which go along with slin the best. I tried Dbol but was not impressed that much. I went as high as 160mg/day but estrogen shot through the roof. Back pumps were insane and gained lots of weight. I wanted a slightly different look and Anadrol i have never tried before.

  7. #7
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    The only compound that is "synergistic" with insulin is HGH. So if you can't afford HGH you may as well throw insulin out the window. Moreover, it's a really dangerous compound.

    Coming from a guy who stupidly used DNP , the risks of insulin really do not outweigh the rewards. Unless your body is the only means for you to get a paycheque it's simply not worth it.

    In terms of $$$, where I am from Humalin is the one of the most expensive compounds after HGh and Nandrolone

    When you see deaths in bodybuilding it's usually from one of three things

    - Insulin use and/or abuse

    - DNP

    - Recreational drugs


    It's as black and white as if you make a mistake you end up dead or in acoma, which may as well be dead all the same
    Last edited by Windex; 07-27-2018 at 12:44 PM.

  8. #8
    Hattacker3 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    The only compound that is "synergistic" with insulin is HGH. So if you can't afford HGH you may as well throw insulin out the window. Moreover, it's a really dangerous compound.

    Coming from a guy who stupidly used DNP , the risks of insulin really do not outweigh the rewards. Unless your body is the only means for you to get a paycheque it's simply not worth it.

    In terms of $$$, where I am from Humalin is the one of the most expensive compounds after HGh and Nandrolone

    When you see deaths in bodybuilding it's usually from one of three things

    - Insulin use and/or abuse

    - DNP

    - Recreational drugs


    It's as black and white as if you make a mistake you end up dead or in acoma, which may as well be dead all the same
    Ah right. Thanks i'm starting to understand a bit more. What about everything else? Does it look like a solid strength/mass cycle? I am avoiding adding in deca as i'd need to purchase caber+deca and that would put me over my budget. Also i buy in bulk so yeah adding in another compound + caber costs me close to an extra 200 dollars or so. Do you think Dbol + Anadrol at lower doses would be better? What about lowering my test dose and adding in another injectable with it or will a high test dose have equally good gains?

  9. #9
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hattacker3 View Post
    Ah right. Thanks i'm starting to understand a bit more. What about everything else? Does it look like a solid strength/mass cycle? I am avoiding adding in deca as i'd need to purchase caber+deca and that would put me over my budget. Also i buy in bulk so yeah adding in another compound + caber costs me close to an extra 200 dollars or so. Do you think Dbol + Anadrol at lower doses would be better? What about lowering my test dose and adding in another injectable with it or will a high test dose have equally good gains?
    Hard to advise without knowing your stats. For me, I am on 150 mg of Test per week for TRT, so if I was to do your proposed plan I would need to buy enough pharm grade test for another 750mg per Week, which would cost X dollars. It would cost me about the same as to buy Dostinex and 350mg'ish of Tren .

    If I had to choose 900mg of Test or 150mg Test + 350mg Tren I would take the second option every time. Just my $0.02

    My best results have come from following Marcus' diet priming protocol with a low dose of Tren alongside my TRT
    Last edited by Windex; 07-27-2018 at 06:41 PM.

  10. #10
    Couchlockd's Avatar
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    15g carb per unit, and do not ramp down carbs, you need to cover the slin.

    Also if it's not rapid acting, your going to drop all day

    Only slin I'd recommend is Novo-Nordisk "Nova-Log/Nova-rapid"

  11. #11
    Hattacker3 is offline New Member
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    I swear i read multiple times that you should start with 10g carb and slowly lower it as you monitor blood glucose. 15g seems too much if someone is running a moderately upper end insulin dose. That many carbs would flat out make you fat imo.

    How is 150mg test + 350mg tren (I'm assuming you mean tren E since tren A and test E don't really go well) superior to flat out runinng almost a gram of test + anadrol ? I get that tren is nectar of gods but that dose is almost nothing, i have ran close to a gram of tren A and didn't feel MUCH difference albeit my diet was shit(I still feel that tren was bunk somewhat) but i did get the coughs. Personally a 8 month long bulk blast on Test E alone got me the biggest i have been but i had fat on me too. Not much but i was in no shape lean. I also read that its better to stack compounds rather than run test really high, so incase i do go for Tren again, Do you think a Test P, Tren A, Anadrol for bulking would be suitable? I know its short esters and all but i really wanna run short esters. What dosage should i aim for with Test P, Tren A and anadrol?

    My stats:

    I used to be huge, left lifting for a few months and got into oly lifting. Started doing exclusively squats and legs for the next 5 months and upper body atropied. Right now i'm close to a skinny fat 88kg with 6'4 height but my legs are holy moly compared to every other muscle on my body. Yaaaa i fked up XD

    Just trying to get on the right track again, please don't judge me and inb4 "lift normally for a few months u gonna get noob gains again", I am already on TRT so why should i not blast right away once i have my cycle planned and delivered to me.

  12. #12
    Couchlockd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hattacker3 View Post
    I swear i read multiple times that you should start with 10g carb and slowly lower it as you monitor blood glucose. 15g seems too much if someone is running a moderately upper end insulin dose. That many carbs would flat out make you fat imo.

    How is 150mg test + 350mg tren (I'm assuming you mean tren E since tren A and test E don't really go well) superior to flat out runinng almost a gram of test + anadrol ? I get that tren is nectar of gods but that dose is almost nothing, i have ran close to a gram of tren A and didn't feel MUCH difference albeit my diet was shit(I still feel that tren was bunk somewhat) but i did get the coughs. Personally a 8 month long bulk blast on Test E alone got me the biggest i have been but i had fat on me too. Not much but i was in no shape lean. I also read that its better to stack compounds rather than run test really high, so incase i do go for Tren again, Do you think a Test P, Tren A, Anadrol for bulking would be suitable? I know its short esters and all but i really wanna run short esters. What dosage should i aim for with Test P, Tren A and anadrol?

    My stats:

    I used to be huge, left lifting for a few months and got into oly lifting. Started doing exclusively squats and legs for the next 5 months and upper body atropied. Right now i'm close to a skinny fat 88kg with 6'4 height but my legs are holy moly compared to every other muscle on my body. Yaaaa i fked up XD

    Just trying to get on the right track again, please don't judge me and inb4 "lift normally for a few months u gonna get noob gains again", I am already on TRT so why should i not blast right away once i have my cycle planned and delivered to me.
    Slowly ramp down carbs from 10g per unit?!?

    Are you fucking kidding me?

    There's many reasons why that's absolutely retarded.

    1) I live with a diabetic, trust me I know what I'm talking about.

    2) why take insulin if your going to deprive yourself of carbs? It's sole purpose and point of using it for recreational and professional bodybuilding is because it force feeds the carbs into your muscles.

    3) if a 5 unit shot needing 60g carbs to cover a post workout dose of slin, is "flat out going to make you fat" then you don't lift or workout hard enough to even justify steroids in the first place, let alone insulin.

    If I came off harsh and blunt, that's because I meant to be.

    Simply put, you come here asking how to use some thing you know 0 about then tell us we are wrong.

    Try this, I'll mail you a bottle of novalog sealed free of charge and I'll pay shipping.

    Tell me how 10g or less carb per unit works for you, until you slip into a coma you won't wake up from.

    J

  13. #13
    Quester's Avatar
    Quester is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Hat,
    Perhaps you should spend more time reading the educational threads.

  14. #14
    2758100 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couchlockd View Post
    Slowly ramp down carbs from 10g per unit?!?

    Are you fucking kidding me?

    There's many reasons why that's absolutely retarded.

    1) I live with a diabetic, trust me I know what I'm talking about.

    2) why take insulin if your going to deprive yourself of carbs? It's sole purpose and point of using it for recreational and professional bodybuilding is because it force feeds the carbs into your muscles.

    3) if a 5 unit shot needing 60g carbs to cover a post workout dose of slin, is "flat out going to make you fat" then you don't lift or workout hard enough to even justify steroids in the first place, let alone insulin.

    If I came off harsh and blunt, that's because I meant to be.

    Simply put, you come here asking how to use some thing you know 0 about then tell us we are wrong.

    Try this, I'll mail you a bottle of novalog sealed free of charge and I'll pay shipping.

    Tell me how 10g or less carb per unit works for you, until you slip into a coma you won't wake up from.

    J
    Lifelong "controlled" diabetic here and I still have off days with low lows. Nobody on here knows what they are doing with insulin. NOBODY. Not even the so called 'experts.' I saw one guy on here riffing off mayo clinic jargon and giving advice to others. This dope uses the cheap old school insulin sold at walmart which is way different than new age insulin. Old school insulin is taken after meals and this guy was advising people to take before meals and right after work out which is a risky move. If you have lived with a diabetic you know the deal.

  15. #15
    Couchlockd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2758100 View Post
    Lifelong "controlled" diabetic here and I still have off days with low lows. Nobody on here knows what they are doing with insulin. NOBODY. Not even the so called 'experts.' I saw one guy on here riffing off mayo clinic jargon and giving advice to others. This dope uses the cheap old school insulin sold at walmart which is way different than new age insulin. Old school insulin is taken after meals and this guy was advising people to take before meals and right after work out which is a risky move. If you have lived with a diabetic you know the deal.
    Yes I know the deal.

    I won't touch the stuff, I see how touchy it can be.

    I can only spew basic guide lines on rapid acting slin. And it's just what I've learned off of watching her try to dial in her sliding scale on rapid.

    She takes 25 units basalgar daily, and Nova log with meals.

  16. #16
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    If your diet sucked then that's the reason you didn't have success. You should dial in your nutrition program before cycling again. If you can't diet on a gram of tren then that's a pretty big red flag. If you can't be motived in huge doses of gear what does that say?

    Aside from that if you are really on a tight budget then why spend money gear at all ? You mention deca +caber is an extra $200.0
    I don't mean to cause any offence but this is not a cheap hobby and $200.00 should not be the cost delta to determining whether or not you cycle.

    Don't spend what you can't afford to lose.
    Last edited by Windex; 07-28-2018 at 06:59 PM.
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  17. #17
    Hattacker3 is offline New Member
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    Okay everyone thank you for your knowledge. I give up slin and gonna move back to just AAS. I'm sory you got the wrong idea of the diet not being dialed in. It wasn't strict or dialed in as i read everywhere that tren ace 700mg and above shreds fat even on pizzas. I thought im hitting over a gram of ace so why not eat more? I did eat mostly protein but the calories were way too much and relied on tren to get rid of them. Now when i'm on my cruise dose, my diet has been consistently strong and i eat a very high protein diet with exactly around 2000 cals everyday. I'm getting leaner and wanna get down to single digits before i go for a lean bulk again.

    My final thoughts now that i have read everything, this is the cycle i have finalized:

    Wks 1-10 Test P - 500mg pw
    Wks 1-10 Tren A - 500mg pw
    Wks 1-4 Anadrol - 50mg ED

    Okay so please critique my final cycle and if there are improvements i can make then let me know so. Thank you so much but i'm confused over one thing, i ran a gram of test 8 months straight with 160mg Dbol in between and got no gyno. I ran the tren E cycle since jan to may and got a disc behind my right nipple, It still hurts and its not old. I was thinking of Raloxifine to get rid of it. Do you think it will go away or do i need surgery now?

    Please devise a AI/Dophamine antagonist protocol. I don't have a PCT as im on B and C. I'm clueless to AI and prolactin control as i never used it before. Maybe 25mg aromasin ED with Prami? I don't know what dose Prami to run for

    Thanks everyone again

  18. #18
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    If you are concerned about your chest/nipple I would consult with your doctor.

    I prefer to use Dostinex over Prami - regardless of the option you choose make sure its pharmagrade. No UGL or Research Company nonsense

    If you are on TRT you should hopefully be able to get a script for Arimidex .

  19. #19
    Hattacker3 is offline New Member
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    Will do asap.

    The rest of the cycle looks okay?

  20. #20
    Mr. Small's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hattacker3 View Post
    Will do asap.

    The rest of the cycle looks okay?
    Tren dose is quite high. Do you really need all that. Even the test dose is higher than needed.

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