Full Nurtition, cycle and training for critique

Bulk time is here. I've been cutting for the past 2 months, dropped 20lbs and I'm ready to start sticking size back on again. I've got down to 195lbs (190 is the goal to start bulk) I think I'm at about 12-15%. Veins visible on arms, shoulders, lower abs.

Weeks 1-8 Test E 300mg & Mast P 300mg pw
Weeks 4-8 Tren A 300mg PW
Weeks 1-8 2 IU GH in AM

Cutting calories were at 2500 and 2800 on training days, all carbs were eating pre, during and post workout. Cardio was 25mins steady state 5x week, 2 days we're fasted and fat burners were used (Cycles of clen, yohimbine, ECA)

Bloodwork was done today for health markers and estrogen levels, I'll have results Monday or Tuesday. I'll get bloods again 1-2 months into cycle to judge estrogen.

Now for the fun stuff, bulking.

Anabolics
Week 1-2 1200mg Test E & 800mg Deca
Week 1-4 100mg Anadrol
Week 3-12 800mg Test E & 500mg Deca
Week 1-12 12.5mg Aromasin E3D
Week 1-12 400mg Mast P
Week 1-12 4IU GH in AM
Week 1-12 1000mg substrained release Metformin (split AM/PM)

I know mast isn't really a bulker but I like the anti estrogen effects, the dryness and especially the mood & libido. Maybe throw in another oral for weeks 4-8 or 8-12? I can get good caber, I know if I keep my estrogen in check prolactin should be ok but maybe throw in .25mg twice a week for good measure, it can't hurt right? Anabolics will be shot Mon, Wed, Fri.

I have an endomorph body type so my diet is based on that. I've used this macro ratio during cutting, energy levels are great. Carbs are only eaten before, during and after workout all from potatoes (I'm Irish, spent 26 years there, I cant live without potatoes) On rest days carbs come from green veg. Most of my protein is from ground turkey except for two shakes. 1 cheatmeal a week on Sunday after WO. Possibly 1 small other one midweek or refeed using rice cakes as needed. I have an actual meal plan, its a modified version that I got from a coach. I think it'd be unfair to post his hard work for free so here's the macros.

Nutrition
Rest Days
Meal 1 - 59.4p, 9c, 52.35f 763 Calories
Meal 2 - 75p, 21f 489 Calories
Meal 3 - 89.4p, 9c, 32.85f 707 Calories
Meal 4 - 100.5p, 2.1c, 19.5f 594 Calories
Meal 5 - 78.9p, 9c, 18.35f 534 Calories
Meal 6 - 89.4p, 9c, 28.35f 666 Calories

Total - 483p, 38.1c, 172f 3754 Calories

Workout Days
Meal 1 - 49.5p, 9c, 42.35f 633 Calories
Meal 2 - 75p, 21f 489 Calories
Meal 3 - 89.4p, 9c, 23.85f 626 Calories
Meal 4 - 79.5p, 2.1c, 19.5f 510 Calories
Pre WO - 85.7p, 106c, 3.5f 801 Calories
Intra WO- 65c 260 Calroies
Meal 6 - 96.3p, 106c, 1.5f 825 Calories

Total - 475p, 298c, 112f 4146 Calories

As I type this I thnk my carbs might be low, maybe raise to 450g on WO days and add in 80g in restday breakfast?


For my workout its a toss up between the these two plans, I'm open to better suggestions though. I work a lot, 60-80 hours a week so I have 4 days to workout, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. Cardio 3x week 25 mins steady state one day fasted
https://www.muscleandstrength.com/wo...-swole-program
or
https://www.ironworksbirmingham.com/...out-routine_46

Bump. Anyone?

I'll bite

- Your stats don't equate to 2 grams of gear. It's beyond excessive and makes no sense

- Hiding your food choices is silly. Even if someone had the exact same stats as you copying the food choices would offer them no benefit because everyone's body is different, people have food allergies, likes/dislikes on certain food, etc. Coaches are a dime a dozen and really aren't necessary outside of professional athletes.

- Macros make no sense. Ridiculous amount of protein - haven't even seen a pro bodybuilder let alone an average guy eat or even advocate eating that much protein. One way ticket to damaging your body eating half a kilo of protein per day with no benefit. If the coach is telling you to eat that much protein, you got ripped off.

- Growth Hormone for 12 weeks does nothing, needs to be run year round.

- Your too tiny for Metformin to make sense in a Risk/Reward analysis

- If you need a website to tell you how to train you have no control of your body and don't have the necessary experience in the gym to know what works or doesn't work for you. Muscular hypertrophy is achieve with muscle under tension from 45-60 seconds roughly. You should be training based on what gives your body the best results with minimizing the risk of injury, not blinding following broscience from Muscle and Strength or a Mickey Mouse spreadsheet on the other website.

- Keep estrogen in check doesn't magically keep Prolactin in check when you run 19nors in high doses so you are wrong there.

- If you dropped 20 lbs in 8 weeks that is not healthy and you guaranteed sacrificed a lot of muscle tissue in the process.


We can help you fix your nutrition program if you remove the nonsense roadblock of hiding food choices. Training you need to discover on your own. The biggest mistake is the amount of gear, it literally makes no sense at 190 lbs. You will never be successful long term if you think you need 2.5grams of gear in a cycle at that body weight.

You also posted this on other boards so it seems like you are more looking for validation than actual advice.

Thanks for the reply mate, even if slightly angry haha.

If you think the gear is excessive I could drop the test and deca by 100mg each? Maybe even bring the test down to 600.

With the macros I was simply multiplying out my current macro split. Trying to keep carbs low and using protein to make up the excess. Maybe I could use more fats. What do you think about keeping carbs low on rest days and basing most of my carbs around workouts? I'll post up a copy of my food plan.

I run GH year round. 2IUs started 2 months ago jumping up to 4iu. I'll continue it at that.

I don't need a website to tell me how to train. I like to pick and follow a program, it mixes stuff up and keeps me motivated.

Interesting about the prolactin, it wasn't my understanding. So you would suggest running the caber?

Muscle growth comes from carbs not protein, You really don't need more than 220-260g of Protein at your weight

You posted two websites with training spreadsheets

You should always control prolactin unless you want boobs

If you aren't on TRT and you run Deca you need to be willing to accept being on TRT for the rest of your life because nandrolone is the hardest drug to recover from

If you can't grow on 500mg Test 500mg Deca you have only your training and diet to blame

How tall are you?

Damn, no wonder I'm on TRT now I used to love Deca and Primobolan back in the days before all these great forums on the internet.... People really need to take advantage and learn all they can from knowledgeable folks like yourself, hense the reason I joined :)

Damn, no wonder I'm on TRT now I used to love Deca and Primobolan back in the days before all these great forums on the internet.... People really need to take advantage and learn all they can from knowledgeable folks like yourself, hense the reason I joined :) Oops I should've quoted Windex on this reply... My bad :)

6'1 mate

You should fix your diet, dial in your training, then get bloodwork, then run a reasonable amount of gear.

I have 20lbs of muscle on you and use 75% less gear than what you proposed.

Duly noted windex. My training is good, again I like to follow plans sometimes but I do make progress with it without the gear.

Diet wise I've adjusted my diet. I was trying something new and trying to keep fat gain low by keeping carbs low. It was based off a diet that worked for me. I got some help on another forum and lowered my Cal's aswel. New macros are as below. I'm willing to PM you my food plan.

Gear wise you're 100% right, test is down to 650, deca 500 and drol 50. Aromason 12.5mg EOD based on current bloods and caber will be .5mg 2xweek



Rest Days
Meal 1 - 38p, 3c, 1f 378cal
Meal 2 - 60p, 7f 303cal
Meal 3 - 66p, 91c, 23f 852cal
Meal 4 - 61p, 1c, 6f 310cal
Meal 5 - 66p, 91c, 23f 852cal
Meal 6 - 57p, 6c, 38.9f 616cal
Total - 351p, 195c, 120f 3313cal

Workout Days
Meal 1 - 33p, 6c, 16f 313cal
Meal 2 - 50p, 41c 30f 701cal
Meal 3 - 61p, 41c, 30f 701cal
Meal 4 - 51p, 1c, 6f 270cal
PreWO - 67p, 115c, 21f 918cal
Intra - 90c 360cal
Meal 6 - 67p, 115c, 21f 918cal
Total - 331p, 367c, 102f 3737cal

Nobody has reinvented the wheel on food. Chicken and Rice is still chicken in rice, I don't follow the logic of being so afraid to post the meal plan on your thread. I calculated your TDEE @ Approx 3052 calories. You could easily drop 30-40g of Protein since it's not really necessary to be 700 calories over TDEE especially if you feel that you are endomorphic and put on weight easily. If your TDEE is infact higher (I guessed your age and BMR) then you should still be lowering protein and increasing carbs or fats.

You haven't indicated whether you are doing PCT or are on TRT. There's also no mention of HCG. You also have not indicated your age.

I can appreciate the willingness to reduce the amount of gear after receiving feedback but the total amount in my opinion doesn't jive with your stats. I don't know how to put it politely, but someone over 6ft tall and under 200 lbs is small, still has a lot of opportunity+potential, and doesn't need over a gram of gear, half of which coming from a 19nor.

If you want to run that amount of gear, by all means its your prerogative but you should understand that steroids have a ceiling and diminishing returns. It's always best to get the most possible from the lowest dose. It doesn't take much to get the the ceiling.

You also posted on a Canadian board - are you Canadian?

Thanks Windex, some good info. I work 12 hour days 6 days a week, that's why I put my calories higher. I could be wrong with this. I would of thought and endomoph bodytype would want to stay lower on carbs?


I'm 32 and already on TRT, there'll be no PCT

In your opinion how much gear should I run?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leprechaun

Thanks Windex, some good info. I work 12 hour days 6 days a week, that's why I put my calories higher. I could be wrong with this. I would of thought and endomoph bodytype would want to stay lower on carbs?


I'm 32 and already on TRT, there'll be no PCT

In your opinion how much gear should I run?

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Bulking and low carbs are kindof counterproductive. If you are infact 12% bodyfat then putting on 1-2% bodyfat in a cycle is probably not going to even be noticeable. I'm assuming at 6ft1 you also have longer limbs so you can hide fat a bit easier versus a shorter person.

Have you used Deca before?

I've used deca before with good results. I worked hard on this cut and it's why I'm trying to keep as much of my progress as possible.

My workout should be good with 367carbs. I'm guessing drop some fat and protein from rest day and brings carbs up to 300?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leprechaun

I've used deca before with good results. I worked hard on this cut and it's why I'm trying to keep as much of my progress as possible.

My workout should be good with 367carbs. I'm guessing drop some fat and protein from rest day and brings carbs up to 300?

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You could do 300 Test and 500 Deca with an optimized diet and training.

Because you are on TRT I would run 16 weeks instead of 12 and do a clean easy bulk. 1.3lbs per week as an example and finish at 20-22 lbs heavier.

Is your TRT script set up in a way you can use that rather than having to source additional Test without ended up short ?

For example, my TRT script is set up to be dispensed as a 3 month supply but i can refill every 51 or 61 days IIRC so I'm never short.

The reason I was planning more test than deca was to reduce the chance of deca dick. From my understanding deca causes the problem by reducing DHT. More test = more DHT and should help. I ran 600 test with 400 deca before and didn't have an issue. Again, would like your opinion though.

TRT wise, I went through a doc a year and a half ago, my levels came back very low but he decided it was in range. I took matters into my own hands and cruise on 200mg

For the diet. 367c on workout and 300 rest seems ok? I'm tempted to add more carbs pre workout to round up to 400.

You’re getting good advice, Good on you for listening :)

U are supposed to rest or atleast cruise beetween cycles. Its not recommended to do a 2 months cuttingcycle then 3 months bulkingcycle.

Drop your bulkingcycle.
Do a cruise at 250 mg test for 3 months.
Donate.
If ur serious pimp with mk677/ipam/cardarine.
Then do BW. Make sure BP, enzymes, e2/prolactin, kidneys, heartbeat and rbc/hct are ok. If not, wait.
Then do a clean bulk.

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