Gained fat too quickly on test cycle, need to lean out. Modify cycle or just cals?

[afteriron]

I am currently 5.5 weeks into a test cycle of 400 mg per week for 10-12 weeks. I have catapulted up to around 15% bodyfat up from 12% at the beginning, and am up 17 pounds in total from the combo water weight, fat, and muscle.

I need to be leaner for some photos/events/opportunities coming up. My cutting calories were 2500, and i went up to 2800 for a week then to 3000, then have been eating pretty much 4000 calories every day since then. Should I simply drop calories for awhile and cut while on test only? Moderate deficit so I can retain and possibly even build some more muscle mass while dropping fat or should I do a more aggressive minicut then slowly raise my calories in a more conservative manner?

Diet and cardio aside, is there anything I should add to close out the cycle? var or something to dry out? I also have some high quality epistane and some S4 (which has actually worked for me in the past for vascularity and dryness) that I suppose I could add onto the test. Test and epistane I feel like could make a solid cut look to close out the cycle.

I could also extend the test out so I would be on test for maybe 14-16 weeks and run something else for the last 6-8 weeks with it to close out.

any thoughts appreciated on how I should approach this. Deficit first then go back to gaining or if I should cut gradually close to my maintenance level so I can build a moderate amount of muscle as well. I really messed myself up with the diet and do need to lean up a little bit more to be photogenic

[ScotchGuard02]

If you're packing on fat during your Test cycle with the only variable being eating, you should modify the eating to control the fat. Adding another AAS variable mid-cycle is not a good idea.

[Charlie67]

For me, so take this for what its worth... 4000 cals a day would make me fatten up a bit (but I'm old, 6'2,230). Not sure how big you are, but at 27, 4000 might be right, or it might be too much. If you have an idea of what your maintenance calories are, then add 300-500 calories to that (or however many you need to grow..youth is a powerful thing). If that number is 4,000, and you're still adding too much fat, then maybe try (keeping your protein high) changing the ratio of either fat (as Scotch suggested) or Carbs.

FWIW, I do better keeping my fat a little higher and staying rather low-carb (I can back this thinking up with blood sugar measurements). I maintain at about 2800-2900 cals, so I would look at about 3300-3500 to grow but I would cap my carbs at 200/day max. That's 800 cals from carbs, about 1200cals from protein, leaving me 1300 cals for fat, or about 145 grams of fat.

IGNORE my numbers however, my numbers have nothing to do with what might work for you, I'm just trying to share my thinking about it.

Best of Luck,
C-

[Arcânn]

You don't want to jump too many calories too fast, and it sounds like that's what happened. I'm not sure yet how fast you should increase calories on cycle, but an increase of around 100 cals/week sounds reasonable to me, which means by the end of your cycle you'd be 1200 cals above your previous maintenance. You made an even bigger jump than that in 5 weeks or less. That's a lot.

I think all you can really do now is drop the calories and make sure as much of that drop as possible is from carbs and maybe some fat, and see what happens.

Best of luck to ya

[Couchlockd]

You sure that 3% isn't just bloat from a bulk or water from test?

[afteriron]

If you're packing on fat during your Test cycle with the only variable being eating, you should modify the eating to control the fat. Adding another AAS variable mid-cycle is not a good idea.

Yeah, I totally agree. It's for sure due to the eating. The big thing I am wondering is whether a drop down closer to my original maintenance would simply be enough to lean me out slowly or remove some water weight and bloat or if I need to go into an actual slight deficit again

Also in terms of adding another AAS mid cycle it would be more like a finisher, almost like some add in a compound to dry them out before a comp or how powerlifters run an oral or a different inj leading up to a meet for peaking. But I def get what you're saying, just was wondering if the recomp effects would be better modifying both eating and gear at once

[afteriron]

Do you think I should drop cal numbers back to deficit territory (ie 2500-2700 maybe - now that my maintenance is higher since i am heavier as well as geared) or for a few weeks then slowly start adding them back once I drop a few lbs of fat again or should I just go closer to maintenance and try to do a longer term "recomp" for rest of cycle?

Trying to figure out which would be more efficient. Almost thinking two weeks at a deficit then weeks in a slight surplus would be better than the rest of my weeks around TDEE

[guitarzan]

You sure that 3% isn't just bloat from a bulk or water from test?

I agree. What are you measuring your bf with? I recently put on 22 lbs, and my bf according to my hand held fat meter thing said I increased around 3% bf, but I actually lost a little fat

[MACKATTACK]

Post your meal plan..........

[Couchlockd]

Post your meal plan........

[Chrisp83TRT]

I agree with the water weight.... you may think it’s fat but it possibly be water weight.


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[afteriron]

I don't have a structured meal plan, I am just tracking macros day by day.

I do have a fair allowance of "junk food" that I let fit into the macros every once in a bit, and some food can definitely be salty/processed, if you're wondering about if certain things would cause water retention etc

[afteriron]

I am measuring with body analyzer scale and visual estimate (which I know is prone to bloat and water weight etc)

but all around I'm pretty certain it is not just bloat. Because my diet even up until end of cut I had some water retention going on in core. I was very lean but you could tell I was still holding water. My lower core and obliques don't just look more washed out they definitely look more like "pudge" as those are my trouble issues with fat. Even upping my Aromasin dose/trying some topical 7-keto anything didn't really lower the water or make me look tighter so I am pretty sure it is actually fat and not just test bloat

[Windex]

I don't have a structured meal plan, I am just tracking macros day by day.

I do have a fair allowance of "junk food" that I let fit into the macros every once in a bit, and some food can definitely be salty/processed, if you're wondering about if certain things would cause water retention etc

This is the problem right here. You need to optimize your meal plan and there's a lot more to be mindful of than just macros. It's no surprise you added on fat given this post.

You should read the educational threads in the diet and nutrition section. Adding more drugs and supplements isn't an excuse to be lazy and not have a proper meal program.

[MACKATTACK]

I don't have a structured meal plan, I am just tracking macros day by day.

I do have a fair allowance of "junk food" that I let fit into the macros every once in a bit, and some food can definitely be salty/processed, if you're wondering about if certain things would cause water retention etc

If you are 5.5 weeks in and gained 17lbs, that is going to mainly be Fat and Water IMHO, especially if you are eating 4,000 calories a day combined with junk food. Every time you are eating this junk food you are most likely spiking your insulin which in return makes your body store fat. Now you can do timely insulin spikes post workout which can help with growth but what it sounds like you are not doing any real strategic eating and estimating around 4,000 calories of an overall dirty meal plan. Unless you work a super active job combined with the gym you are eating well above your TDEE.

The easiest way to notice these changes is with photos. I normally take update photos at a minimum weekly to see changes and see which body parts are progressing better then others and which ones I want to work on more.

I would post up at least one day of full eating with no lies that shows the junk food intake also.

[Chrisp83TRT]

I don't have a structured meal plan, I am just tracking macros day by day.

I do have a fair allowance of "junk food" that I let fit into the macros every once in a bit, and some food can definitely be salty/processed, if you're wondering about if certain things would cause water retention etc

Only time you should ever throw in a cheat meal or “junk food” is usually on refeed day or post work out.


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[afteriron]

If you are 5.5 weeks in and gained 17lbs, that is going to mainly be Fat and Water IMHO, especially if you are eating 4,000 calories a day combined with junk food. Every time you are eating this junk food you are most likely spiking your insulin which in return makes your body store fat. Now you can do timely insulin spikes post workout which can help with growth but what it sounds like you are not doing any real strategic eating and estimating around 4,000 calories of an overall dirty meal plan. Unless you work a super active job combined with the gym you are eating well above your TDEE.

The easiest way to notice these changes is with photos. I normally take update photos at a minimum weekly to see changes and see which body parts are progressing better then others and which ones I want to work on more.

I would post up at least one day of full eating with no lies that shows the junk food intake also.

Since a couple of you guys mentioned this, sorry, I would just like to clarify, when I fit in "junk" type food it is in fact my post-workout meal.

Primary protein sources are obv chicken and steak, eat a lot of plain greek yogurt or Skyr icelandic yogurts, jerky, oatmeal, peanut butter, multigrain bagels/toast, lots of veggies throughout the day, tons of fruit, add in "low cal" ice cream sometimes, almond milk with grainy cereals, whey, pitas/tortillas/rice with lean meat, pasta..

[Couchlockd]

Since a couple of you guys mentioned this, sorry, I would just like to clarify, when I fit in "junk" type food it is in fact my post-workout meal.

Primary protein sources are obv chicken and steak, eat a lot of plain greek yogurt or Skyr icelandic yogurts, jerky, oatmeal, peanut butter, multigrain bagels/toast, lots of veggies throughout the day, tons of fruit, add in "low cal" ice cream sometimes, almond milk with grainy cereals, whey, pitas/tortillas/rice with lean meat, pasta..

Tons of fruit is not a good idea, it's mostly pure sugar.

[afteriron]

Tons of fruit is not a good idea, it's mostly pure sugar.

Honestly, a cup of strawberries is like 47 calories, watermelon is just voluminous, 20 grapes is under 70 calories.. I'm still sensible with portions, not going durianrider with the 20 bananas a day haha

[afteriron]

Okay so just to clarify - what then would be the best method to lean out and continue cycle then?

2-3 week mini cut then keep calories in very small surplus for rest of cycle for gains, or lower to maintenance for rest of cycle and do cardio and hope that this recomps over time?

Both could work I just don't know which would be more efficient for a fat loss then muscle gain perspective

[Windex]

As previously stated, your diet is the problem, and you should post your meal program so members can help you improve on it. Additionally, you should read the sticky threads in the diet & nutrition section and calculate your TDEE and build a foundation of education. Otherwise, you will just end up bouncing back to your original spot pre cycle and never keep any of your gains. Diet really determines everything.

[Couchlockd]

Honestly, a cup of strawberries is like 47 calories, watermelon is just voluminous, 20 grapes is under 70 calories.. I'm still sensible with portions, not going durianrider with the 20 bananas a day haha

The thing with fruit is if you're eating it with a meal it's creating an insulin Spike that's more prone to storing fat Sugar's need to be time very carefully while on cycle

[Kay kay]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having moderate amounts of fruits in your diet.

There are a LOT of misconceptions about diet in bodybuildijg in general.

Ensure that your getting sufficient nutrients/vitamins, hit your required calories and fiber intake, and you will be okay.

If you are not seeing the results you desire, but are eating a solid diet, then the issue is likely in your training or hormone balance. Being anal about your diet will not make a significant difference if it’s already quite decent.

[Couchlockd]

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with having moderate amounts of fruits in your diet.

There are a LOT of misconceptions about diet in bodybuildijg in general.

Ensure that your getting sufficient nutrients/vitamins, hit your required calories and fiber intake, and you will be okay.

If you are not seeing the results you desire, but are eating a solid diet, then the issue is likely in your training or hormone balance. Being anal about your diet will not make a significant difference if it’s already quite decent.

Sugar is sugar modern fruits are okay but overdoing it is not okay