Continual Growth - Advanced AAS protocols

[guitarzan]

750 isn’t high imo

I agree, if bulking. 750 seems to be a good amount for me to recomp

[guitarzan]

Let me know when you find a source for the Cytadren

Will do, looking

[charger69]

Let me know when you find a source for the Cytadren

Me also please.


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[GearHeaded]

Why so high on the test? 750 imho is off the chart. The actual difference in gains between 500 and 750 is minimal but the aromitization is crazy on 750.

I agree with the other guys (remember we are in an "advanced protocols" thread) that 750mg of test is not that high at all . if you look at my example 2 protocol, you see test is front loaded at 200mg per DAY.

the difference between 500mg of test and 750mg is not that much for a newer user, I agree. but 500mg of test is what a lot of bigger guys are doing as there TRT.

also, Aromatization being crazy high at 750 mg . that depends on the person. I don't need an AI at a gram of test per week. and besides, depending on the goal of the cycle and the protocol we are using, we may be specifically after and wanting higher aromatization.
we may be running higher doses of test, over a gram, AND throwing Dbol in there as well just to get as much estrogen as possible (depends on the situation . . . so just saying 'crazy aromatization' is not necessarily a negative side effect)

[GearHeaded]

GH,

Does it really need to be this complicated for people to continue to grow? I am asking because I do not know. I am just happy that my sport of choice does not involve this complicated type of AAS cycling :-)

For anyone trying this, I saw guitarzan is, I would love to hear results.

Tarmyg, thanks for joining in. your comments are always beneficial.

I will just say that the 'complicated' nature of protocols laid forth in this thread were not made up or invented by me.. sure I've done lots of research and put lots of things together and chatted with guys about some of these types of protocols. BUT I cannot take credit for them as my idea (I have my own ideas and twists on things for certain reasons).

A lot of these methods have been around for 25+ years. 'Gurus' from the 90s that helped put guys on the Olympia stage have written about these methods (and they were used at the highest levels).
My point is, these type of protocols have been tried and true, proven and worked, and been around a long time. so they are really not as 'complicated' as they appear on the surface , but they are definitely advanced (again practiced at the highest level .. and perhaps most of us don't need to dabble with these type of protocols, but at the same time why not have the knowledge available to us and ability to utilize if we so chose).

driving a Toyota prius around a race track is probably not all that complicated, and perhaps may be enough to satisfy our adrenaline. But , properly learning how to implement all the advanced protocols of driving a formula 1 car, learning all the ends and outs over time and lots of study, AND then getting to drive the formula 1 race car on the race track is probably a whole different experience.

so its just about options and choices

[GearHeaded]

Let me know when you find a source for the Cytadren

just a hint guys.. you'll probably have better luck looking for " Aminoglutethimide " (which is the actual chemical name for Cytadren ).
BUT its super pricey guys . like I said in another post , you can use the combination of "winstrol and letro" and have a somewhat similar effect (but a totally diff mechanism of action)

[Capebuffalo]

just a hint guys.. you'll probably have better luck looking for " Aminoglutethimide " (which is the actual chemical name for Cytadren ).
BUT its super pricey guys . like I said in another post , you can use the combination of "winstrol and letro" and have a somewhat similar effect (but a totally diff mechanism of action)

Looks to be about $5.20 per 250 mg tab. So about $150 for the 14 day supply. But I can only find 100 tab minimum.

Tarzan you buy the 100 and I’ll buy 30 from you.

[GearHeaded]

Thank you GH. I guess I will be a little more specific.
My cutting cycle will start 12 weeks from the show. Right now, I am on a bulking cycle. Of test, deca, and anadrol. I frontloaded on it so I am going to cut it down to a 12 week cycle ( I have always run for 16 weeks without frontloading. The problem that I would have is time to go off the bulk and then fit in another cycle before cutting. I was planning on using your protocol as the fill in up to my cutting cycle.

ok so you have 12 weeks contest prep cycle.. your currently on a 12 week bulk cycle. how far into this are you exactly ? how many weeks out from the show are you right now ?

instead of trying to fit in another cycle, ones I know your time frame , I'm guessing that improvising your bulk and prep cycle and the transition in between the two is going to be the best strategy .
also, you don't want to go into a contest prep cycle with 'worn out' receptors and not fresh. so utilizing phase 2 and phase 3 between bulk and cut cycles is ideal

[GearHeaded]

This sounds like it's perfect for me. I'm nowhere near contest prep, or need to just bulk, I'm still trying to transform my body. Since I'll be coming off a 16 week cycle in about six weeks, how do you propose I transition into to this. Should I go ahead and incorporate phase 3 and 4 at the end of this cycle? I dont have the gear to stop cycle and start phase 3 and 4 now, but could have it as early as 3 weeks.
Current cycle
Test 750
Mast 600
Tren 300
Was planning to run some winny for 4 weeks, but now I'm thinking about waiting till after cycle

yes exactly, at the end of this cycle utilize phase 3 and phase 4. you may want to extend phase 3 and 4 to being 3 weeks each instead of just 2 weeks each because of how long you were on this cycle.

in regards to the Winny.. yes it can be utilized at the tail end of this cycle and going into phase 3. the last two weeks of this current cycle you would drop your test dosage down a bit, perhaps utilize an AI (not sure what your current AI protocol is), and then add in 50mg of Winny per day for 2 weeks.. then come off the cycle completely but keep running the Winny at 50mg for two more weeks.
This will help with your anti cortisol and anti estrogen phases to help you prepare for your next cycle.

for you, being you've been on for awhile.. the 'androgen re-sensitiziation' aspect is going to be an essential part of phase 4 as well (you may actually want to begin phase 4 at the same time as phase 3 to get a longer run)..
This is where you'll want to run about 5ml per day of Synthetine , as well as around 60mcg of Clen combined with 150mcg of T4 (big BONUS here, not only will these things all in synergy help re-sensitize androgen receptors, but they will help you keep your gains AND help burn body fat and aide you in your recomp goals). Add in a GHRP (or MK677) like Hexarelin, and you'll get additional growth factors and lipolytic effects.

so, even your 4-6 week 'cruise phase' and being off of cycle, you will still make substantial body comp changes to reach your goals, all while re-sensitizing your body to prepare for its next cycle.. its a 'win win '
thats how "continued growth" cycles work

[guitarzan]

yes exactly, at the end of this cycle utilize phase 3 and phase 4. you may want to extend phase 3 and 4 to being 3 weeks each instead of just 2 weeks each because of how long you were on this cycle.

in regards to the Winny.. yes it can be utilized at the tail end of this cycle and going into phase 3. the last two weeks of this current cycle you would drop your test dosage down a bit, perhaps utilize an AI (not sure what your current AI protocol is), and then add in 50mg of Winny per day for 2 weeks.. then come off the cycle completely but keep running the Winny at 50mg for two more weeks.
This will help with your anti cortisol and anti estrogen phases to help you prepare for your next cycle.

for you, being you've been on for awhile.. the 'androgen re-sensitiziation' aspect is going to be an essential part of phase 4 as well (you may actually want to begin phase 4 at the same time as phase 3 to get a longer run)..
This is where you'll want to run about 5ml per day of Synthetine , as well as around 60mcg of Clen combined with 150mcg of T4 (big BONUS here, not only will these things all in synergy help re-sensitize androgen receptors, but they will help you keep your gains AND help burn body fat and aide you in your recomp goals). Add in a GHRP (or MK677) like Hexarelin, and you'll get additional growth factors and lipolytic effects.

so, even your 4-6 week 'cruise phase' and being off of cycle, you will still make substantial body comp changes to reach your goals, all while re-sensitizing your body to prepare for its next cycle.. its a 'win win '
thats how "continued growth" cycles work

That's exactly what I wanted to hear...lol
I like the idea of the fat loss benefits of the cruise phase, makes me think running it six weeks anyway, even one I start the six week blast. Keep doing six weeks on, six weeks off, as long as I'm still in recomp mode.

[tarmyg]

just a hint guys.. you'll probably have better luck looking for " Aminoglutethimide " (which is the actual chemical name for Cytadren ).
BUT its super pricey guys . like I said in another post , you can use the combination of "winstrol and letro" and have a somewhat similar effect (but a totally diff mechanism of action)

GH,

The first thing I did was Google Cytadren because I had never heard of it. The Wikipedia page on it is fairly decent but I, obviously, only have surface knowledge thus far. I did notice that it is only legal in three countries due to toxicity and that some alternatives were proposed. None of these seems to be sold here in India so I can not give you a price comparison. A lot of words for a simple question :-)

Are the alternatives proposed as good as Cytadren itself for this specific purpose taking the toxicity of Cytadren into consideration?

[guitarzan]

Looks to be about $5.20 per 250 mg tab. So about $150 for the 14 day supply. But I can only find 100 tab minimum.

Tarzan you buy the 100 and I’ll buy 30 from you.

I'm in

[GearHeaded]

GH,

The first thing I did was Google Cytadren because I had never heard of it. The Wikipedia page on it is fairly decent but I, obviously, only have surface knowledge thus far. I did notice that it is only legal in three countries due to toxicity and that some alternatives were proposed. None of these seems to be sold here in India so I can not give you a price comparison. A lot of words for a simple question :-)

Are the alternatives proposed as good as Cytadren itself for this specific purpose taking the toxicity of Cytadren into consideration?

"toxicity" is a very relative and context dependent term. so many of the drugs that we take are considered 'toxic' , and thats why we alter the time frame and the dosage to help limit that negativity... to put it in context, Aspirin is very common drug, however its so toxic that if you accidentally take too much at once it leads to death. . very few AAS based compounds and hormone drugs that a bodybuilder uses has that level of toxicity and side effects as does Aspirin (leading to a quick over dose and death)

as for Cytadren-- in the example protocol I laid out, I have it being used for ONLY 14 days . thats it. and at a very reasonable dosage. I'm guessing at that short of a time frame its going to be less toxic then a Big Mac at mcdondalds


BUT , to answer your question about 'alternatives' ,, YES, I did specifically mention an alternative and gave an example. Running Letro and Winstrol together for a 14 day blast will also have similar results as running the Cytadren (the mechanisms of actions are very very different, but the end results are similar).

as for the direct alternatives to Cytadren used in the medical community to treat things like cushings syndrome, I'm unaware of those drugs being used in bodybuilding as a Safer alternative to it . and this is probably because a bodybuilders usage and time frame of Cytadren is so minimal that an alternative for toxicity sake is unwarranted (now 'price point' is a whole different subject)

[guitarzan]

Hey gh, since I'm hoping to benefit from the fat burning potential in phase 3 and 4, can I run the t3 and clen during both phases? I like to run clen for six weeks, taking benadryl, and plan to run those phases 3 weeks each. And would not using slin be critical, however I'm thinking about trying it. My hypoglycemia has been under control since diet got on track

[guitarzan]

Also, if I go the winny and letro route, how much letro? I'm thinking I will, as I holding on to gains is not extremely important to me right now, or gonna lose much anyway...

[GearHeaded]

Hey gh, since I'm hoping to benefit from the fat burning potential in phase 3 and 4, can I run the t3 and clen during both phases? I like to run clen for six weeks, taking benadryl, and plan to run those phases 3 weeks each.

yes you could run T3 during this phase. my original example has T4 being ran in the cruise phase at I believe 150mcg per day with Clen . The reason I have T4 here with the Clen, is that together these compounds are both going to aide in fat burning, but are also anti-catabolic, possibly anabolic , and help re-sensitize androgen receptors . I do NOT have T3 in here as a stand alone as for some people it can be a bit catabolic.
But , you can add T3 on top of the Clen and T4 as well. you'll increase metabolic rate, feed efficiency, partitioning, etc.. and when running them all together, 'according to bro science', any un-coverted T4 has anabolic properties. so its not going to hurt running them all together.

on the other hand.. maybe you could use your explosives license and buy some of that stuff that starts with a 'D' and ends with a "P" they used to make explosives and pesticides out of

And would not using slin be critical, however I'm thinking about trying it. My hypoglycemia has been under control since diet got on track

insulin would add a beneficial synergistic effect to everything I mentioned and benefit phases 3 and 4 quite a bit . even has protective benefits when using the 'yellow stuff' I mentioned.
But I would try to add a GH protocol to this as well to some extent, even if we are just talking a peptide like Hexarelin or GHRP6 or MK677.

[GearHeaded]

Also, if I go the winny and letro route, how much letro? I'm thinking I will, as I holding on to gains is not extremely important to me right now, or gonna lose much anyway...

its hard to give exact AI dosages , as we all aromatize differently , and what you were running on cycle leading up to your cruise phase may be different or changing as well depending on context and compounds ran.

but a base starting point . 50mg Winstrol a day , with 1.5 mg Letrozole EOD. for 14-21 days

[guitarzan]

yes you could run T3 during this phase. my original example has T4 being ran in the cruise phase at I believe 150mcg per day with Clen . The reason I have T4 here with the Clen, is that together these compounds are both going to aide in fat burning, but are also anti-catabolic, possibly anabolic , and help re-sensitize androgen receptors . I do NOT have T3 in here as a stand alone as for some people it can be a bit catabolic.
But , you can add T3 on top of the Clen and T4 as well. you'll increase metabolic rate, feed efficiency, partitioning, etc.. and when running them all together, 'according to bro science', any un-coverted T4 has anabolic properties. so its not going to hurt running them all together.

on the other hand.. maybe you could use your explosives license and buy some of that stuff that starts with a 'D' and ends with a "P" they used to make explosives and pesticides out of




insulin would add a beneficial synergistic effect to everything I mentioned and benefit phases 3 and 4 quite a bit . even has protective benefits when using the 'yellow stuff' I mentioned.
But I would try to add a GH protocol to this as well to some extent, even if we are just talking a peptide like Hexarelin or GHRP6 or MK677.

Ha, just had a inspection from the guys that go by 3 letters. Sorry I keep trying to modify this, but I'm really excited about the potential for this to be a kick butt recomp plan. 6 weeks putting on muscle, 6 weeks burning fat. A year of that should equal total transformation!

[guitarzan]

Just ordered gh, slin, letro, t4 and synthetine. Whew, that was more than my house payment. Already got everything else. Gonna add t3 and mk677 to the proposed phase 3 and 4, and run both for three weeks. I'm gonna run the clen , t3 and t4 the whole 6 weeks. I will stop current cycle and start this as soon as the goodies arrive, hopefully no more than couple weeks.

[GearHeaded]

a man with a plan right there !!

[charger69]

Just ordered gh, slin, letro, t4 and synthetine. Whew, that was more than my house payment. Already got everything else. Gonna add t3 and mk677 to the proposed phase 3 and 4, and run both for three weeks. I'm gonna run the clen, t3 and t4 the whole 6 weeks. I will stop current cycle and start this as soon as the goodies arrive, hopefully no more than couple weeks.

Tarzan- you be careful with the T3 and T4.
We want you around !!!!


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[guitarzan]

Tarzan- you be careful with the T3 and T4.
We want you around !!!!


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I'm not having high resting hr anymore, I think I had a bottle of t3 that was extremely overdosed. 50 mcg's was putting rested hr at 120!

[guitarzan]

a man with a plan right there !!

I plan to do phase 1 and 2 just like you proposed. I'm not palm reader, or psychic, but I predict growth in my future!

[GearHeaded]

I'm not having high resting hr anymore, I think I had a bottle of t3 that was extremely overdosed. 50 mcg's was putting rested hr at 120!

may want to have Atenolol around just in case , or just simply take it anyways as a 'heart protective' insurance policy . Atenolol dropped my BP and resting heart rate quite a bit. actually feel better taking it so I just take it year round on or off cycle . super cheap too

[guitarzan]

may want to have Atenolol around just in case , or just simply take it anyways as a 'heart protective' insurance policy . Atenolol dropped my BP and resting heart rate quite a bit. actually feel better taking it so I just take it year round on or off cycle . super cheap too

I had wondered bout taking a beta blocker, my only concern would be I naturally have low BP. Last time I checked it was 107/59, and that's on tren ! It normally runs 112/65, give or take a few

[GearHeaded]

I had wondered bout taking a beta blocker, my only concern would be I naturally have low BP. Last time I checked it was 107/59, and that's on tren! It normally runs 112/65, give or take a few

damn , hypo-glycemia and low blood pressure . in reality a lot of guys would like to have both those problems cause they have quite the opposite. so you always check out good at the doctors visits

Atenolol definitely helps with resting heat rate, as well as adrenaline spikes to your heart, and your heart rate spiking or being out of rhythm for short times . all of that was fixed once I got on it. resting heart rate is down from 106 to now 70 and no other issues (used to get heart rate spikes in the middle of the night) . it also helped my cardio capacity.

I will say the times I drank excessively , the heart rate issues were way way worse and exaggerated . so keep that in mind. not sure if you still drink or not, but something to consider

[powerliftmike]

Blast and cruise is effective. Test propinate is the preferred testosterone for the blasts for sure. For years now I have been a proponent of tapering testosterone down after blast until reaching near physiological levels. This is because, as you made mention, cortisol and other catabolic horomones will rise during cycle and so best to gradually lower test and let these hormones progressively descend as well. This method also essentially got rid of any acne problems (which for me was mainly an issue during PCT). I mention this because most of the forum advice out there recommends abruptly stopping, waiting until drug clearance, and then launching into a clomid, nolvadex , or other PCT protocol.

[charger69]

damn , hypo-glycemia and low blood pressure . in reality a lot of guys would like to have both those problems cause they have quite the opposite. so you always check out good at the doctors visits

Atenolol definitely helps with resting heat rate, as well as adrenaline spikes to your heart, and your heart rate spiking or being out of rhythm for short times . all of that was fixed once I got on it. resting heart rate is down from 106 to now 70 and no other issues (used to get heart rate spikes in the middle of the night) . it also helped my cardio capacity.

I will say the times I drank excessively , the heart rate issues were way way worse and exaggerated . so keep that in mind. not sure if you still drink or not, but something to consider

Damn GH- your on top of all of this. On tren at high levels I needed atenolol


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[charger69]

ok so you have 12 weeks contest prep cycle.. your currently on a 12 week bulk cycle. how far into this are you exactly ? how many weeks out from the show are you right now ?

instead of trying to fit in another cycle, ones I know your time frame , I'm guessing that improvising your bulk and prep cycle and the transition in between the two is going to be the best strategy .
also, you don't want to go into a contest prep cycle with 'worn out' receptors and not fresh. so utilizing phase 2 and phase 3 between bulk and cut cycles is ideal

My first comp will be in May, next 2 in July. I will finish my bulk near the end of Nov.
I do not know exact dates yet, but this gives a good idea.


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[GearHeaded]

Damn GH- your on top of all of this. On tren at high levels I needed atenolol

I try not to leave any "stone un turned'' sort of speak , especially with 'advanced protocols'.. theres a lot to consider and a lot of stuff you need to stay on top of. but when you get it all dialed in , you have perfect synergy between things and they all have their purpose and benefits.
OPTIMIZATION !!

[GearHeaded]

Blast and cruise is effective. Test propinate is the preferred testosterone for the blasts for sure. For years now I have been a proponent of tapering testosterone down after blast until reaching near physiological levels. This is because, as you made mention, cortisol and other catabolic horomones will rise during cycle and so best to gradually lower test and let these hormones progressively descend as well. This method also essentially got rid of any acne problems (which for me was mainly an issue during PCT). I mention this because most of the forum advice out there recommends abruptly stopping, waiting until drug clearance, and then launching into a clomid, nolvadex, or other PCT protocol.

EXACTLY !

I'll be starting a thread, which I already mentioned here, about advanced AAS protocols and optimizing PCT . part of my protocols with that is exactly what you just stated, and going against the idea of abruptly stopping all your compounds and jumping on a generic PCT regimen.

[GearHeaded]

and keep in mind guys theres always something to learn from guys we interact with here .. it was Obs when I first joined here that got me to start running Atenolol. now I've added that into plenty of protocols cause of his help originally

[Obs]

and keep in mind guys theres always something to learn from guys we interact with here .. it was Obs when I first joined here that got me to start running Atenolol. now I've added that into plenty of protocols cause of his help originally

You acted on a suggestion from Obs?
I got ED for two months last time I listened to that moron!

[guitarzan]

damn , hypo-glycemia and low blood pressure . in reality a lot of guys would like to have both those problems cause they have quite the opposite. so you always check out good at the doctors visits

Atenolol definitely helps with resting heat rate, as well as adrenaline spikes to your heart, and your heart rate spiking or being out of rhythm for short times . all of that was fixed once I got on it. resting heart rate is down from 106 to now 70 and no other issues (used to get heart rate spikes in the middle of the night) . it also helped my cardio capacity.

I will say the times I drank excessively , the heart rate issues were way way worse and exaggerated . so keep that in mind. not sure if you still drink or not, but something to consider

I pretty much only drink one night a week, football Saturday's. My rested hr is usually in the low 60's, if not taking anything to raise it. Only had issues running that one batch of t3, which I have no doubt was overdosed.

[guitarzan]

Hey gear, I read that synthetine needs a insulin spike to be effective, so I'm assuming that timing will be necessary for it and the slin? If so, how do you reccomend to take it

[GearHeaded]

Hey gear, I read that synthetine needs a insulin spike to be effective, so I'm assuming that timing will be necessary for it and the slin? If so, how do you reccomend to take it

I've come across this as well but I'm pretty sure its only in relation to the L-carnitines accumulation in muscle tissue (ie, the ability to store more and more L carnitine). but just for androgen receptor building, and its ability to promote lipolysis and have mitochondria use fat for fuel, I do not believe that insulin is essential for these aspects of it.

I'll look into this further though..

if insulin helps Synthetines fat burning properties. then it would actually work perfectly with my fat burning protocols , which I've laid out on these forums quite often.

first thing in the morning fasted before starting fasted cardio
- 500mcg HGH-Frag
- 10mg yohimble
- 3iu of insulin

then simply add your 4ML of Synthetine to this protocol and inject at the same time before the fasted cardio .


BUT again I'll look into this further

[guitarzan]

I've come across this as well but I'm pretty sure its only in relation to the L-carnitines accumulation in muscle tissue (ie, the ability to store more and more L carnitine). but just for androgen receptor building, and its ability to promote lipolysis and have mitochondria use fat for fuel, I do not believe that insulin is essential for these aspects of it.

I'll look into this further though..

if insulin helps Synthetines fat burning properties. then it would actually work perfectly with my fat burning protocols , which I've laid out on these forums quite often.

first thing in the morning fasted before starting fasted cardio
- 500mcg HGH-Frag
- 10mg yohimble
- 3iu of insulin

then simply add your 4ML of Synthetine to this protocol and inject at the same time before the fasted cardio .


BUT again I'll look into this further

Thanks man

[Bobik]

Heloo GH and thnx for answer,

"alternatives Winny + Letro" - it's possible change Letro ? I think different AI Exemestane or Arimidex ?

[Chrisp83TRT]

just a hint guys.. you'll probably have better luck looking for " Aminoglutethimide " (which is the actual chemical name for Cytadren ).
BUT its super pricey guys . like I said in another post , you can use the combination of "winstrol and letro" and have a somewhat similar effect (but a totally diff mechanism of action)

GH , just want to thank you for being selfish and providing us with tons of amazing info on all this.
I'm in my 30's and definitely appreciate a good read ( yes physical books ) haha and even with that being said , I'm still learning more and more everyday from you so

Thanks brother , it's very appreciated.

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[Slacker78]

Nice Gearheaded ! A question: is there an equivalent for women ? My girlfriend is performing a 8 weeks cycle and i wondering if it could be a good cruising protocol i could administer to her. It would be helpful some good tips it about for women