DHT blockers while on cycle

[Obs]

Specifically while on cycle with dht derived compounds...

Does finasteride actually counteract the effectiveness of winistrol or masteron to any noticeable degree?

What are your experiences and thoughts?

[GearHeaded]

great subject .. I'll add just a couple simple points at a time (try to limit my long winded wordy posts that make guys eyes glaze over).

to go direct to the point with an answer (which I've actually touched on in several other posts lately regarding the 3HSD enzyme and DHT)

things like VAR and Winny are DHTs .. SO.... since they already 5-alpha reduced, they cannot be reduced further by 5-alpha reductase enzyme (which is what a DHT blocker does, ie., block 5 alpha). Due to the presence of the oxygen atom in the A-ring, this steroid is not deactivated by 3-alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD) in skeletal muscle tissue either. . 3HSD is an enzyme that is found in skeletal muscle that deactivates circulating DHT, rendering it inactive (non anabolic )

I talk about this in my Estrogen is more anabolic then DHT thread.. stating that Estrogen is not effected by this enzyme and is therefore more anabolic in muscle tissue then DHT is


hope that makes sense.

so one point being -- DHT steroids cannot covert to DHT itself, and become 'non anabolic' in muscle tissue the way that Test can. all 100% of the DHT based steroid can be anabolic in muscle tissue (one reason why things like VAR are 3x more anabolic then test). because they are already 5 alpha reduced and also not effected by the 3-alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase enzyme in muscle tissue

[Obs]

great subject .. I'll add just a couple simple points at a time (try to limit my long winded wordy posts that make guys eyes glaze over).

to go direct to the point with an answer (which I've actually touched on in several other posts lately regarding the 3HSD enzyme and DHT)

things like VAR and Winny are DHTs .. SO.... since they already 5-alpha reduced, they cannot be reduced further by 5-alpha reductase enzyme (which is what a DHT blocker does, ie., block 5 alpha). Due to the presence of the oxygen atom in the A-ring, this steroid is not deactivated by 3-alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD) in skeletal muscle. . 3HSD is an enzyme that is found in skeletal muscle that deactivates circulating DHT, rendering it inactive.

I talk about this in my Estrogen is more anabolic then DHT thread.. stating that Estrogen is not effected by this enzyme and is therefore more anabolic in muscle tissue then DHT is


hope that makes sense.

Yez that post is what mafe me ask the question.
Your posts are well recieved, never too long brother and I appreciate it.

What would you recommend for a daily dosage in your opinion to prevent hair loss in someone on a heavy ass cycle?

[charger69]

Specifically while on cycle with dht derived compounds...

Does finasteride actually counteract the effectiveness of winistrol or masteron to any noticeable degree?

What are your experiences and thoughts?

Man up and don’t be a pussy! Shave your head. LOL


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[almostgone]

Man, it been ages, but I did run finasteride along with some primo?
It was my first run with primo, but I had good results. I honestly don't even recall my finasteride dosage, it was just some research finasteride I picked up on whim?

I recently pulled a DHT when I did some self ordered labs to get a baseline DHT because I have some Bayer rimobolan to use up later this spring.

[GearHeaded]

oh by the way , the answer to your question is "NO"

[GearHeaded]

there may be a completely different answer if you were asking if a DHT blocker can help with hair loss when taking Test plus DHT based steroids or highly androgenic steroids.

but the answer as to wither a DHT blocker can limit the anabolic effects of a DHT based steriod in any way , the answer is No, because of the bit of science I laid out in my first post

[kelkel]

Yez that post is what mafe me ask the question.
Your posts are well recieved, never too long brother and I appreciate it.

What would you recommend for a daily dosage in your opinion to prevent hair loss in someone on a heavy ass cycle?

1 mg is recommended for hair loss but remember, that's for "normal" people. Not those running large amounts of aas. I referenced labs I pulled on elevated test and Fina in my pm.

[Obs]

there may be a completely different answer if you were asking if a DHT blocker can help with hair loss when taking Test plus DHT based steroids or highly androgenic steroids.

but the answer as to wither a DHT blocker can limit the anabolic effects of a DHT based steriod in any way , the answer is No, because of the bit of science I laid out in my first post

lolit was supposed to be two fold but I didnt understand that it would do zero good to prevent the hair loss from winny and mast. It will only block the dht from test....
I will definitely still run it but may just slow down the winny I am on at 100mg day

[Obs]

Man up and don’t be a pussy! Shave your head. LOL


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You have seen hpw scary I look, right?

[Obs]

1 mg is recommended for hair loss but remember, that's for "normal" people. Not those running large amounts of aas. I referenced labs I pulled on elevated test and Fina in my pm.

Thanks again...

I was way off on the whole idea I had about it though I had been told right before.

Balancing chemicals... Difficult thing.

[Couchlockd]

lolit was supposed to be two fold but I didnt understand that it would do zero good to prevent the hair loss from winny and mast. It will only block the dht from test....
I will definitely still run it but may just slow down the winny I am on at 100mg day

Damn I'm sorry. Should have told you bout it not working for dht gear.

It's probably the mast, it's infamous for hair loss.

[Obs]

Damn I'm sorry. Should have told you bout it not working for dht gear.

It's probably the mast, it's infamous for hair loss.

You did tell me. I didn't understand.

[Couchlockd]

You did tell me. I didn't understand.

Ah, ok cool

But, it will stop the gram of test from converting, so that should help

[kelkel]

Thanks again...

I was way off on the whole idea I had about it though I had been told right before.

Balancing chemicals... Difficult thing.

No worries. I did a thread some time back where I showed my lab results comparing different levels of exogenous test and my dht levels while on Fina. It's impressive at how it can reduce DHT. Know that most guys simply on TRT doses of test hover at the top of the range or above with DHT levels and don't know it. Nobody really tests for it unless and until they have prostate issues.

[Obs]

Yeah in hind sight... I wish I would have stayed on it from the start. Hadn't messed with winny much or mast at all until this cycle. Not liking how much this has affected my hair.

[GearHeaded]

lolit was supposed to be two fold but I didnt understand that it would do zero good to prevent the hair loss from winny and mast. It will only block the dht from test....
I will definitely still run it but may just slow down the winny I am on at 100mg day

heres a few points

- some guys worry about taking a DHT blocker while on dht derived steroids thinking the dht blocker will limit the anabolic effects of such steroids.. but its impossible for a dht blocker to limit the effects (because of the chemical makeup of said steroids)

- also you may think that a DHT blocker may do nothing to protect against negative DHT side effects while on DHT based drugs, being its impossible for a DHT blocker to stop the conversion of a compound from converting to DHT when it is absolutely unaffected by the enzyme (5 alpha) that converts to DHT in the first place.

BUT there are in-direct down stream effects that can be utilized. I'll give an example.

When your taking any dose of test, even TRT. and you add in something like a Winny or a VAR. what happens is your SHBG goes down and your free test automatically goes up, AND THEN you have more test available to be converted into DHT . Thus your more prone to DHT sides while taking DHT drugs, even though its not directly those drugs doing it, , its the drug effecting test levels and its the test making more DHT.

So YES by all means utilize a DHT blocker while running a DHT compound along with Test to limit negative DHT sides, like hair loss.

I'm hoping I'm getting to the root of your question there Obs

[Obs]

heres a few points

- some guys worry about taking a DHT blocker while on dht derived steroids thinking the dht blocker will limit the anabolic effects of such steroids.. but its impossible for a dht blocker to limit the effects (because of the chemical makeup of said steroids)

- also you may think that a DHT blocker may do nothing to protect against negative DHT side effects while on DHT based drugs, being its impossible for a DHT blocker to stop the conversion of a compound from converting to DHT when it is absolutely unaffected by the enzyme (5 alpha) that converts to DHT in the first place.

BUT there are in-direct down stream effects that can be utilized. I'll give an example.

When your taking any dose of test, even TRT. and you add in something like a Winny or a VAR. what happens is your SHBG goes down and your free test automatically goes up, AND THEN you have more test available to be converted into DHT . Thus your more prone to DHT sides while taking DHT drugs, even though its not directly those drugs doing it, , its the drug effecting test levels and its the test making more DHT.

So YES by all means utilize a DHT blocker while running a DHT compound along with Test to limit negative DHT sides, like hair loss.

I'm hoping I'm getting to the root of your question there Obs

Yes I undersyand now. I have been on a buttload of everything of late. That is an exact measurement btw... My ass can hold anymore, it hurts too much. I should have utilized fina two years ago.

[kelkel]

I'm hoping I'm getting to the root of your question there Obs

As in hair. Quite funny.

[GearHeaded]

as for hair loss . keep in mind its not simply DHT that is the culprit when using AAS. elevated Androgens in general will "act like" dht on receptors in the hair folicles . also why some guys shed like crazy on Tren (though its a progestin not a dht .. its 5x more androgenic then test)

[Obs]

Damn...

If i did everything "right" I wouldn't be able to afford this shiz.

[GearHeaded]

Damn...

If i did everything "right" I wouldn't be able to afford this shiz.

if you did everything right from day one , you'd have no character.


for guys that are really worried about hair loss, or have prostate issues. running super high dosages of anaboics with very little androgens is going to be best (though not the most ideal for overall total growth).

for DHTs , something like Masteron is more androgenic leaning. whereas VAR is far less androgenic and more Anabolic . Tbol is very very low androgenic and fairly high anabolic. Superdrol, probably has the highest anabolic to lowest androgenic rating there is. Anadrol is one of the only DHT options where you can get higher anabolism but also get some estrogen effects from it as well.
and for non DHTs. NPP or Deca

can build a fairly formidable cycle using only anabolics though (but anabolics are still not without their possible side effects)

[Obs]

if you did everything right from day one , you'd have no character.


for guys that are really worried about hair loss, or have prostate issues. running super high dosages of anaboics with very little androgens is going to be best (though not the most ideal for overall total growth).

for DHTs , something like Masteron is more androgenic leaning. whereas VAR is far less androgenic and more Anabolic . Tbol is very very low androgenic and fairly high anabolic. Superdrol, probably has the highest anabolic to lowest androgenic rating there is. Anadrol is one of the only DHT options where you can get higher anabolism but also get some estrogen effects from it as well.
and for non DHTs. NPP or Deca

can build a fairly formidable cycle using only anabolics though (but anabolics are still not without their possible side effects)

Yeah I will just go bald instead lol

[charger69]

You mention prostrate... I had issues on cutting cycle ...: I considered it to be the mast.
I have never had any issues in the past. Any comments?


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[Obs]

You mention prostrate... I had issues on cutting cycle ...: I considered it to be the mast.
I have never had any issues in the past. Any comments?


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If dht is causing prostrate issues you should sit or stand. At the very least lay on your back.

[kelkel]

You mention prostrate... I had issues on cutting cycle ...: I considered it to be the mast.
I have never had any issues in the past. Any comments?


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Yes, monitor you psa more frequently. Particularly when on cycle.

[almostgone]

No worries. I did a thread some time back where I showed my lab results comparing different levels of exogenous test and my dht levels while on Fina. It's impressive at how it can reduce DHT. Know that most guys simply on TRT doses of test hover at the top of the range or above with DHT levels and don't know it. Nobody really tests for it unless and until they have prostate issues.

I never had checked it until you mentioned it would be nice to snag a baseline. I'm glad I did, but dang, it is an expensive test!!!!

[The God Himself]

What about epostane GearHeaded?
It is a potent 3HSD inhibitor. Would that be beneficial?

[charger69]

If dht is causing prostrate issues you should sit or stand. At the very least lay on your back.

Sit stand or lie down. I do that 24 hours a day and it didn’t work. LOL


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[GearHeaded]

What about epostane GearHeaded?
It is a potent 3HSD inhibitor. Would that be beneficial?

beneficial for what exactly ? are you asking in the context of hair loss or limiting the effects of DHT or something else?

IF a drug were able to block the effects of 3HSD on DHT itself (and DHT was not deactivated in muscle tissue) then theoretically that drug would allow for a lot more anabolic activity to take place in muscle tissue.
so we'd be able to take a hormone that is inactive in muscle tissue (ie, DHT) and allow it to become active. that could be fairly potent being we have so much DHT available

[The God Himself]

beneficial for what exactly ? are you asking in the context of hair loss or limiting the effects of DHT or something else?

IF a drug were able to block the effects of 3HSD on DHT itself (and DHT was not deactivated in muscle tissue) then theoretically that drug would allow for a lot more anabolic activity to take place in muscle tissue.
so we'd be able to take a hormone that is inactive in muscle tissue (ie, DHT) and allow it to become active. that could be fairly potent being we have so much DHT available

Yes I am specifically asking for the purpose of making DHT more available in the muscle.
Thanks for the answer, appreciate it.