Test E Deca & Tren Ace Cycle Advice

[Dead_Bench]

Hi everyone, first post here! Looking some advice on my 3rd cycle.

I currently train only for powerlifting and have a upcoming competition. I have previously run 2 cycles of Test and Anavar which were brilliant. It agreed with me very well and give me no side effects.

I have been looking to try Tren now for a while as i always hear it is brilliant for strength!

I have now decided to try a cycle of Test E, Deca and Tren Ace

The amounts i am currently thinking weekly

Test E 600ml
Deca 300ml
Tren Ace 300ml - only for 8 week

I am really just looking so advice on how this looks? I am only adding in the Deca for help with joins as i have hear Tren can be hard on them.

Also looking to know can you add all 3 of these into the one syringe? I know Tren and Test is no problem but i am unsure about Deca but i can imagine its ok too as its an oil?

Thanks in advance!

[GearHeaded]

after running deca and tren together, you may have a real hard time recovering natty test production . may want to look into what a lifetime of TRT entails just in case.

sure you can inject Deca and Tren ace in the same syringe.. but Tren is best suited for daily injections (or EOD at the least) where as with Deca at only 300mg you can get by with one injection per week

[jaredaero]

Just a few thoughts:

I don't know how well you do with increased prolactin.. It's all subjective to the individual.

So the deca will take a bit over two weeks to feel anything while tren ace should be every day or EOD. That's a lot of Nandrolone I would worry about deca dick or tren dick. It depends on what you're willing to risk. The tren is out of your system quickly but you could have deca dick for a month.

A good rule of thumb with Nandrolone is to do half as much as the amount of testosterone.

So for example 300 mg of test per week and 150mg of deca. I would start lower with the deca, give it two weeks and increase it slowly.

But like I said, everyone is different.



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[GearHeaded]

I don't know how well you do with increased prolactin.. It's all subjective to the individual.

So the deca will take a bit over two weeks to feel anything while tren ace should be every day or EOD. That's a lot of Nandrolone I would worry about deca dick or tren dick. It depends on what you're willing to risk. The tren is out of your system quickly but you could have deca dick for a month.

A good rule of thumb with Nandrolone is to do half as much as the amount of testosterone.

just an fyi -- for guys that are prolactin or progesterone sensitive in the first place .. running higher amounts of Test then 19nor can possibly exasperate that problem, not help it.

[jaredaero]

just an fyi -- for guys that are prolactin or progesterone sensitive in the first place .. running higher amounts of Test then 19nor can possibly exasperate that problem, not help it.

I'm curious about this. Here's what I found:

Nandrolone produces DHN as a metabolite via 5-alpha reductase, this acts as partial agonist. And competitively displaces DHT from androgenic tissue, like in the penis.

Now Seth Feroceand A few bros in the gym actually say to run twice as much test as Nandrolone.

I currently run deca with winstrol in a stack. So I'm curious if the DHT in the winstrol is counteracting the deca dick?

Now you're saying that the problem is prolactin sensitivity?

So are you saying to not run test, to run Nandrolone and test at the same level, or run some Cabergoline with your stack?

I'm getting conflicting info. Help us understand please....

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[Kay kay]

300mg deca is too much for just joint health, 150 will do just fine for that purpose.

[GearHeaded]

I'm curious about this. Here's what I found:

Nandrolone produces DHN as a metabolite via 5-alpha reductase, this acts as partial agonist. And competitively displaces DHT from androgenic tissue, like in the penis.

Now Seth Feroceand A few bros in the gym actually say to run twice as much test as Nandrolone.

I currently run deca with winstrol in a stack. So I'm curious if the DHT in the winstrol is counteracting the deca dick?

I wasn't referring to 'deca dick' at all . in fact, I never even used the word 'dick' in my post

I was referring to progesterone and prolactin sensitivity from running progesterone derived hormones like deca and tren. this can be felt in many ways from gyno, to lack of sex drive. Adding more 'estrogen' (ie, testosterone) is never a good solution to those type of problems (as estrogen and progesterone are 'inter-related' sort of speak).

as for Deca dick. yes if you only ran Deca with not test, then eventually the DHN is going to build up displace DHT and you'll eventually not be able to feel your dick. thats a given wither your prolactin sensitive or not.

as for the Winny. its a DHT derived steroid with mild androgenic properties and does not convert to DHT (its unable to interact with 5 alpha reductase). so there is no "dht in Winstrol' sort of speak and its unlikely counteracting any deca dick issues by itself.

deca dick is not that common. it developed a lot of hype back in the day when the old school guys would run deca only cycles cause test was considered a 'dirty' compound back then and lots of guys would not run test with their cycles.

but like I said, it can surely happen with DHT is displaced by DHN . prolactin sensitivity is far more common (and why a lot of guys chose to run their Test dosages much lower then their deca dosages). thats person dependent though as well as goal dependent.

theres a time and place to run much high test then deca and tren, and a time and place to run much higher deca and tren then test.

[AlphaMindz]

I'm curious about this. Here's what I found:

Nandrolone produces DHN as a metabolite via 5-alpha reductase, this acts as partial agonist. And competitively displaces DHT from androgenic tissue, like in the penis.

Now Seth Feroceand A few bros in the gym actually say to run twice as much test as Nandrolone.

I currently run deca with winstrol in a stack. So I'm curious if the DHT in the winstrol is counteracting the deca dick?

Now you're saying that the problem is prolactin sensitivity?

So are you saying to not run test, to run Nandrolone and test at the same level, or run some Cabergoline with your stack?

I'm getting conflicting info. Help us understand please....

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Interesting.... So are you saying that DHN has similar properties to DHT? Could this be a contributing factor to acne break outs as I've never broken out from test or dht derived compounds, but when I used nandrolone my back exploded with acne! This would make sense as to why that happened...

[jaredaero]

The DHT receptors will bind with Dihydronandrolone. So you get the side effects of nandrolone if that binds the receptors before DHT.

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[AlphaMindz]

Hi everyone, first post here! Looking some advice on my 3rd cycle.

I currently train only for powerlifting and have a upcoming competition. I have previously run 2 cycles of Test and Anavar which were brilliant. It agreed with me very well and give me no side effects.

I have been looking to try Tren now for a while as i always hear it is brilliant for strength!

I have now decided to try a cycle of Test E, Deca and Tren Ace

The amounts i am currently thinking weekly

Test E 600ml
Deca 300ml
Tren Ace 300ml - only for 8 week

I am really just looking so advice on how this looks? I am only adding in the Deca for help with joins as i have hear Tren can be hard on them.

Also looking to know can you add all 3 of these into the one syringe? I know Tren and Test is no problem but i am unsure about Deca but i can imagine its ok too as its an oil?

Thanks in advance!

Hey man how's it going? Welcome to the forum.

So the first thing I was wondering is why you'd use anavar for powerlifting...? It doesn't do a whole lot for strength IMO.

But yes with tren you will notice incredible strength increases. To the point where one has to be careful of their tendons and ligaments as your muscle will be able to move a lot more weight very quickly (within a couple weeks) but the connective tissue haven't had a chance to catch up....something to be aware of, especially cause you're powerlifting..

I personally wouldn't recommend running two 19nors unless you're already on trt because as GH mentioned they are both highly suppressive of endogenous test production and will be difficult to recover from.

Btw tren is not hard on the joints, at least not IME.

[GearHeaded]

The DHT receptors will bind with Dihydronandrolone. So you get the side effects of nandrolone if that binds the receptors before DHT.

DHN is way way weaker then DHT and has a weak binding affinity. in fact, Deca converting to DHN is what makes it a very low 'androgenic' steroid. because DHN is weak and not very androgenic. this is a 'good thing' for the most part. its why women can take Deca with very little issues, and why Men use it as a primary anabolic

[AlphaMindz]

The DHT receptors will bind with Dihydronandrolone. So you get the side effects of nandrolone if that binds the receptors before DHT.

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Ok so based on what you've researched have you seen anything that mentions DHN acting like DHT in regards to acne? (a common side effect of DHT).

I'm curious because this could solve the riddle as to what caused my break out while on deca, thanks!

*I appreciate you bringing this to my attention and I'm gonna look into it more when I'm not at work

[AlphaMindz]

DHN is way way weaker then DHT and has a weak binding affinity. in fact, Deca converting to DHN is what makes it a very low 'androgenic' steroid. because DHN is weak and not very androgenic. this is a 'good thing' for the most part. its why women can take Deca with very little issues, and why Men use it as a primary anabolic

Gotcha. Well you know better than most what I was dealing with at the time and you did mention DHN back then, I remember that. Do you think DHN is related to acne as per my question to jared..? Thanks brother.

[GearHeaded]

The DHT receptors will bind with Dihydronandrolone. So you get the side effects of nandrolone if that binds the receptors before DHT.

this is what you WANT to happen . this is the whole reason for using Nandrolone over some other compound. you don't want nandrolone converting to DHT or acting as strong as DHT.. otherwise Deca would be an "androgenic' steroid and not primarily an "anabolic' steroid.
also why women use Deca, and why men will run Deca only cycles . to get mainly anabolic effects and less androgenic effects.

[GearHeaded]

Gotcha. Well you know better than most what I was dealing with at the time and you did mention DHN back then, I remember that. Do you think DHN is related to acne as per my question to jared..? Thanks brother.

If I recall , I think hormonal flux between androgens, estrogen, and progesterone/prolactin, while taking Deca is what probably caused the acne flare up.

IF you were super sensitive to DHT based acne. then Test would be your worst compound to take. As it converts to DHT the most.. but you said you do ok on test. so if DHT does not flare up your acne, then surely the much weaker DHN would not.

I believe I recommended getting back on Masteron to help, as Mast has the ability to blunt prolactin and estrogen receptors and thus help 'stabilize' your hormonal flux that was possibly going on.

theres a lot to acne control . with all the hormonal flux .. heck I think there is something like 17 different estrogens in the body (we always refer to estrogen as a single thing, but its more to it then that)

[GearHeaded]

also keep in mind guys ...
DHT has NO ability to be anabolic on muscle tissue itself. This is due to the enzyme in muscle tissue, 3-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase, which binds to DHT and deactivates it making it unable to activate and bind to muscle tissue whatsoever.

so having high levels of DHT does not mean your going to build more muscle

[redz]

A good rule of thumb with Nandrolone is to do half as much as the amount of testosterone .

This is poor information I have found through experience lower test high 19nor is the best way. Less sides too. Currently running 250mg Test E with 600mg Deca.

[Dead_Bench]

Hi, doing good thanks!

I took it as i was told you get good strength from it and that its also mild on your system. I honestly believe i got good strength gains from Anavar.

I have hear that injury's can be common on tren and your tendons and ligaments are strong enough for the rapid strength increase. This is definitely something i will be very cautious about!

Thanks for the advice!

[jaredaero]

I disagree. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone. The info I got was from ifbb pro's. And my pharma source does test and deca blends that are 2 to 1. Now their main focus of this is for deca dick.

I can see why someone would run more Deca than Test because deca has a smaller androgenic rating, hence less sides.
But for me ED is worse than baldness or acne ect. I'm very cautious to make a one size fits all statement bro. Like I said, everyone reacts differently to different compounds. So i think it helps OP to give him info on what IFBB people do. What my pharma supplier does. What works for you, what works for me, and our rationale on why we do it that way. That way OP can have more info to understand what the risks are for each stack. I value your feedback.

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[Windex]

I disagree. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone. The info I got was from ifbb pro's. And my pharma source does test and deca blends that are 2 to 1. Now their main focus of this is for deca dick.

I can see why someone would run more Deca than Test because deca has a smaller androgenic rating, hence less sides.
But for me ED is worse than baldness or acne ect. I'm very cautious to make a one size fits all statement bro. Like I said, everyone reacts differently to different compounds. So i think it helps OP to give him info on what IFBB people do. What my pharma supplier does. What works for you, what works for me, and our rationale on why we do it that way. That way OP can have more info to understand what the risks are for each stack. I value your feedback.

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Blends are poor choices for compounds because you have less control over doses, and are more likely to crash in prolonged storage. They also tend to have higher PIP unless it's mostly Ethyl Oleate which would create a more expensive product. Any of the "this is what the IFBB pro does" Is just gossip/rumors unless a pro openly talks about his/her cycle. On top of that, some pros now are like puppets being babysat by coaches.

[jaredaero]

Blends are poor choices for compounds because you have less control over doses, and are more likely to crash in prolonged storage. They also tend to have higher PIP unless it's mostly Ethyl Oleate which would create a more expensive product. Any of the "this is what the IFBB pro does" Is just gossip/rumors unless a pro openly talks about his/her cycle. On top of that, some pros now are like puppets being babysat by coaches.

I agree about the dosage control. They are more of a brainless addition to an existing regiment.. Just load up a 1ML injection and don't think about it..

Now crashed gear really isn't that big of a deal. Reheat and store again.

Now the ifbb pro's aren't really that much different than you or I. They have hands on knowledge and also have a lot of bro science in their heads. Wether they're full of shit or not is something I don't know.

My problem with all of this is everyone has an opinion or anecdotal evidence. But no one has empirical evidence of this or data to back it. So we are all stuck being our own lab rats.

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[GearHeaded]

So i think it helps OP to give him info on what IFBB people do.

The OP is a power lifter. . most of what IFBB guys do is irrelevant to him.

I disagree. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for everyone. The info I got was from ifbb pro's. And my pharma source does test and deca blends that are 2 to 1. Now their main focus of this is for deca dick.

maybe IFBB bikini girl or mens physique pro's lol . but no real hardcore pro is going to design his cycles around his 'dick' being the main focus (especially something as rare as deca dick).
these guys can care less if their deca ever works , so long as they are winning shows.

I've learned a lot from guys at a pretty high level, some that have worked with a ton of IFBB pros, and guys at the Olympia level. never once did 'deca dick' come up as a focus for anything . its totally irrelevant at that level

not saying there is anything wrong with running twice as much test as Deca . heck if I'm running a gram of deca I got no prob running 2 grams of test . but thats not my point.. point is pro level 'cycles' are not even really cycles , let alone are they designed around preventing deca dick (which is mainly an online steroid forum phenomenon)

[charger69]

The OP is a power lifter. . most of what IFBB guys do is irrelevant to him.



maybe IFBB bikini girl or mens physique pro's lol . but no real hardcore pro is going to design his cycles around his 'dick' being the main focus (especially something as rare as deca dick).
these guys can care less if their deca ever works , so long as they are winning shows.

I've learned a lot from guys at a pretty high level, some that have worked with a ton of IFBB pros, and guys at the Olympia level. never once did 'deca dick' come up as a focus for anything . its totally irrelevant at that level

not saying there is anything wrong with running twice as much test as Deca . heck if I'm running a gram of deca I got no prob running 2 grams of test . but thats not my point.. point is pro level 'cycles' are not even really cycles , let alone are they designed around preventing deca dick (which is mainly an online steroid forum phenomenon)

Just control prolactin and you can take all the deca you want without “deca dick”.


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[jaredaero]

Haha. Good point. I wonder if that's fear mongering like the guys that obsess over gyno and are overdoing their AI?

So at that point would you recommend Caber as a preventative measure?

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[GearHeaded]

Just control prolactin and you can take all the deca you want without “deca dick”.

This is true for a lot of guys.. but in some more rare cases where guys run Deca for an extended amount of time in a low androgen environment they can develop deca dick apart from any prolactin sensitivity issues (too put it simply, they run out of DHT sort of speak)

[GearHeaded]

Haha. Good point. I wonder if that's fear mongering like the guys that obsess over gyno and are overdoing their AI?

excellent comparison there. yes there is lots of fear mongering especially on the steroid forum communities and newer users of AAS

[GearHeaded]

So at that point would you recommend Caber as a preventative measure?

I recommend always running Masteron with 19nor cycles first and foremost before adding in a DA like Caber or Prami.. mast will help blunt prolactin sensitivity , yet is still anabolic and has its benefits.

also is person dependent. I don't need Caber even at a gram of Deca with 400mg a week of Tren on top of it. other guys need a DA at merely 400mg a week of Deca

[jaredaero]

This is true for a lot of guys.. but in some more rare cases where guys run Deca for an extended amount of time in a low androgen environment they can develop deca dick apart from any prolactin sensitivity issues (too put it simply, they run out of DHT sort of speak)

Ah! This is where we come to the DHN binding to the DHT receptors. [emoji16]
I'm enjoying this conversation!

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[Charlie67]

Haha. Good point. I wonder if that's fear mongering like the guys that obsess over gyno and are overdoing their AI?

So at that point would you recommend Caber as a preventative measure?

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I'm in the minority maybe, but i wouldn't actually start Caber until i had symptoms or bloodwork showing I was headed towards problems. But I'm a pretty conservative guy.

[charger69]

This is true for a lot of guys.. but in some more rare cases where guys run Deca for an extended amount of time in a low androgen environment they can develop deca dick apart from any prolactin sensitivity issues (too put it simply, they run out of DHT sort of speak)

You learn something new everyday. I am taking 600 of deca and no prolactin issues.


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[GearHeaded]

Ah! This is where we come to the DHN binding to the DHT receptors. [emoji16]
I'm enjoying this conversation!

well I would prefer to use the word "displacing'' .. where DHN 'displaces' DHT as the dominant male hormone . don't really want this to happen.

but again, this is why Deca is such a great anabolic (in regards to anabolic/androgenic ratio) , and also why it is such a great compound for women to use (heck its derived from a female hormone essentially)

[GearHeaded]

I'm in the minority maybe, but i wouldn't actually start Caber until i had symptoms or bloodwork showing I was headed towards problems. But I'm a pretty conservative guy.

agree . Caber is something to have on hand. don't take it unless you know for sure you need it .. most guys don't need it (they are just taught by their 'dealer' to buy it and use it anytime you run deca or tren)

[GearHeaded]

You learn something new everyday. I am taking 600 of deca and no prolactin issues.

this is actually the norm. most guys are NOT that prolactin sensitive. the reason the issues have come up for a lot of guys and its popular online is because of this.
- guys decide to run their first Deca cycle. they run say 500mg test and 500mg deca. deca doesn't convert to E a whole lot. YET these guys will blast their AI's like arimidex at the start of the cycle at like .5mg every day. then what do you know,, 3 weeks in and their dick isn't working. they say "oh NO, the dreaded Deca dick" . but its wasn't the deca you dumb ass , it was the AI you been running so high.

[Charlie67]

You learn something new everyday. I am taking 600 of deca and no prolactin issues.

Out of curiosity, how much Test are you running with the deca?

[PrimoCyp25]

Good thread but so many opinions and different ideas that it's hard to get a proper dosage/balance between compounds, and or solutions.

[GearHeaded]

Good thread but so many opinions and different ideas that it's hard to get a proper dosage/balance between compounds, and or solutions.

its simple
- if your trying to grow and your a guy that functions well with high amounts of androgens and not estrogen and prolactin sensitive, then run your Test dose higher then Deca dose.

- if your tying to grow but your a guy that does better with purely anabolic compounds as high androgens give you negative side effects (like hair loss, prostate issues, acne, aggression, lack of sleep etc.).. then run your test dose much lower then your deca dose.

- if your prone to Deca dick , then run something else all together.

- if your a female. Then run Deca only cycles (or preferably NPP, ie, fast acting deca)

[jaredaero]

its simple
- if your trying to grow and your a guy that functions well with high amounts of androgens and not estrogen and prolactin sensitive, then run your Test dose higher then Deca dose.

- if your tying to grow but your a guy that does better with purely anabolic compounds as high androgens give you negative side effects (like hair loss, prostate issues, acne, aggression, lack of sleep etc.).. then run your test dose much lower then your deca dose.

- if your prone to Deca dick , then run something else all together.

- if your a female. Then run Deca only cycles (or preferably NPP, ie, fast acting deca)

I would like to add to this. Just one thing: npp is fantastic, but if you don't like injecting ED or EOD, stick with Deca.

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[Aerospace]

Yea that's good
for powerlifting also look into strength compounds like Halotestin, Anavar, Anadrol

[charger69]

Yea that's good
for powerlifting also look into strength compounds like Halotestin, Anavar, Anadrol

Halo wreaks havoc with your liver. Be careful. I am not recommending Halo, just if you take it, 3 weeks max. No other orals.


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