nandrolone

ok so i was wondering what a typical dose of nandrolone decanoate per week is when running it with 500 mg test cyp in my case? 400 seems a little high to me honestly. i know you have to run caber with it to combat the prolactin increase. im planning on hopping on deca at the beginning of the new year. right now im running test cyp 500 mg per week and taking quite a bit of the orals roughly one day per week. also is it true that deca has some of the same sides as tren such as lowering serotonin and thyroid? which ester do ya'll prefer? decanoate or phenylpropionate?

400mg/week was always my sweet spot between great gains and no sides.

Depends i do not get sides on Deca at any dose. I been doing this a while so i like a higher dose but 400 ew is the sweet spot for most

I agree on the 400

I hsve low dosed it at 150mg wk for therapeutic reasons with no real benefit other than anti inflammatory effects and joint relief.

Monitor estrogen and prolactin levels and you should have no issue

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Originally Posted by hollywoodundead2016

400 seems a little high to me honestly. i know you have to run caber with it to combat the prolactin increase.

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you don't have to run Caber with Deca unless your prolactin sensitive. some guys are, lots of guys are not. I personally can run a gram of Nandrolone for months without a DA like caber or prami.
also, instead of caber you can run Vitamin b6 to blunt prolactin and of course you can add in some Masteron which blocks Prolactin at the receptor (Mast is at least anabolic and going to provide plenty of synergy to your cycle, while Caber will not)

400mg is a good starting dose imo. I prefer to combine decanoate and phenylpropiane esters. start by running NPP and Deca together while the deca ester builds up, then cruise the rest of the cycle with just the Deca ester

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

you don't have to run Caber with Deca unless your prolactin sensitive. some guys are, lots of guys are not. I personally can run a gram of Nandrolone for months without a DA like caber or prami.
also, instead of caber you can run Vitamin b6 to blunt prolactin and of course you can add in some Masteron which blocks Prolactin at the receptor (Mast is at least anabolic and going to provide plenty of synergy to your cycle, while Caber will not)

400mg is a good starting dose imo. I prefer to combine decanoate and phenylpropiane esters. start by running NPP and Deca together while the deca ester builds up, then cruise the rest of the cycle with just the Deca ester

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GH, how little Mast could you run to get those benefits? For example, you run 600 test and 400 Deca, with how little Mast could you take? 150? 100?

Just curious about prostate health because I'm old, and heavy amounts of Mast makes me pee all night :)

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Originally Posted by Charlie67

GH, how little Mast could you run to get those benefits? For example, you run 600 test and 400 Deca, with how little Mast could you take? 150? 100?

Just curious about prostate health because I'm old, and heavy amounts of Mast makes me pee all night :)

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On time I thought my gear was way underdosed, so I doubled everything (test and mast). Turns out it was only the test, and I was taking 600mg mast per week. I felt fucking great
-Adding no value to your question, but I am curious about the answer myself. The hairloss is what scares me about mast, so know how little can be run would be good to know

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Charlie67

GH, how little Mast could you run to get those benefits? For example, you run 600 test and 400 Deca, with how little Mast could you take? 150? 100?

Just curious about prostate health because I'm old, and heavy amounts of Mast makes me pee all night :)

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unfortunately I don't have an exact number . theres really no way in blood work etc. to know how much Mast it takes to blunt prolactin receptors. heck even if 300mg of Mast worked great at blunting prolactin receptors, thats still at the receptor site itself and this will not be seen on blood work (prolactin may even be elevated on blood work, but doesn't matter cause its simply not doing anything at the receptor ).
so all I can do is guess. and my guess is 250mg per week. I've also never personally or known anyone else to take Mast 'only' for the purpose of blunting prolactin. most guys generally want that benefit, but also want the androgenic and anabolic benefits as well and will run moderate to high dosages.

keep in mind that Masteron is DHT 'derived' and therefore is not dht itself nor can it convert to DHT.. so the prostate issues are not necessarily from masteron as a 'dht' , its possibly from the androgenic effects of the Mast or the effects that Mast has on lowering SHBG and thus raising free Test , and that more available free test is whats effecting the prostate (more test avail to convert to dht as well)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

unfortunately I don't have an exact number . theres really no way in blood work etc. to know how much Mast it takes to blunt prolactin receptors. heck even if 300mg of Mast worked great at blunting prolactin receptors, thats still at the receptor site itself and this will not be seen on blood work (prolactin may even be elevated on blood work, but doesn't matter cause its simply not doing anything at the receptor ).
so all I can do is guess. and my guess is 250mg per week. I've also never personally or known anyone else to take Mast 'only' for the purpose of blunting prolactin. most guys generally want that benefit, but also want the androgenic and anabolic benefits as well and will run moderate to high dosages.

keep in mind that Masteron is DHT 'derived' and therefore is not dht itself nor can it convert to DHT.. so the prostate issues are not necessarily from masteron as a 'dht' , its possibly from the androgenic effects of the Mast or the effects that Mast has on lowering SHBG and thus raising free Test , and that more available free test is whats effecting the prostate (more test avail to convert to dht as well)

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Mast makes me have to go to the bathroom but I can’t.. Cialis eliminates this.
Not a GH type explanation, but it works for me.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by charger69

Mast makes me have to go to the bathroom but I can’t.. Cialis eliminates this.
Not a GH type explanation, but it works for me.


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Can finastride also help with the pee issue when using dht derived compounds? Luckily
I havent had any issues since im just a young punk, but i like to educate myself

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

unfortunately I don't have an exact number . theres really no way in blood work etc. to know how much Mast it takes to blunt prolactin receptors. heck even if 300mg of Mast worked great at blunting prolactin receptors, thats still at the receptor site itself and this will not be seen on blood work (prolactin may even be elevated on blood work, but doesn't matter cause its simply not doing anything at the receptor ).
so all I can do is guess. and my guess is 250mg per week. I've also never personally or known anyone else to take Mast 'only' for the purpose of blunting prolactin. most guys generally want that benefit, but also want the androgenic and anabolic benefits as well and will run moderate to high dosages.

keep in mind that Masteron is DHT 'derived' and therefore is not dht itself nor can it convert to DHT.. so the prostate issues are not necessarily from masteron as a 'dht' , its possibly from the androgenic effects of the Mast or the effects that Mast has on lowering SHBG and thus raising free Test , and that more available free test is whats effecting the prostate (more test avail to convert to dht as well)

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Mostly I was asking because I just came off a 12 week Mast/Test cycle and was going to hope into maybe a Test/Deca/Dbol cycle after a 6-8 week break. So I was just curious about MAYBE adding a limited amount Mast to help buffer the Deca.

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Originally Posted by Charlie67

Mostly I was asking because I just came off a 12 week Mast/Test cycle and was going to hope into maybe a Test/Deca/Dbol cycle after a 6-8 week break. So I was just curious about MAYBE adding a limited amount Mast to help buffer the Deca.

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I recommend Mast for anyone running 19nors. doesn't matter wither its a bulk or a cut, it just helps make everything work better when running progestin based compounds.
I'm running Test, Deca/npp, Dbol, Mast , right now myself . I'm a big fan of Masteron and the synergistic benefits it provides.

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Originally Posted by Octaneforce

Can finastride also help with the pee issue when using dht derived compounds? Luckily
I havent had any issues since im just a young punk, but i like to educate myself

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the answer is NO and Yes , depending on various factors.

the answer is no -- Dht 'derived' compounds are NO longer DHT nor can they convert to DHT in the body. Also, being they are derived by something already 5-alpha reductase enzyme reduced, they can no longer be effected by that enzyme (and thus Finasteride blocking that Enzyme will do nothing).
Finasteride is going to essentially stop 5-alpha reductase enzyme from producing (converting) Dht. Masteron as a DHT derived steroid is already 5-alpha reductase reduced by its very nature . thus Finasteride has nothing to stop or action to blunt.

but keep in mind that a drug that is 'derived' from something means that that drug is NO LONGER that from which it was derived. example, D-bol is derived from Testosterone, so by nature when taking D-bol it can not become nor 'be' testosterone itself in the body.
so with masteron or any other dht derivative. it cannot become or convert to DHT in the body because thats what it was derived from.. too many guys confuse a 'dht derivative' compound with being DHT itself , when it is not and no longer can be.

ok

now the answer is "yes'' in this regards - Masteron will lower SHBG and make more Testosterone available . this 'extra' testosterone that is now available because of using Mast, can now also be converting into DHT by the 5-aphpa reductase enzyme (which has no effect on mast but does on Test). so by taking Finasteride you will keep this "extra' available testosterone from converting to DHT and binding to areas like the prostate.

hope that all makes some sort of sense :)

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

the answer is NO and Yes , depending on various factors.

the answer is no -- Dht 'derived' compounds are NO longer DHT nor can they convert to DHT in the body. Also, being they are derived by something already 5-alpha reductase enzyme reduced, they can no longer be effected by that enzyme (and thus Finasteride blocking that Enzyme will do nothing).
Finasteride is going to essentially stop 5-alpha reductase enzyme from producing (converting) Dht. Masteron as a DHT derived steroid is already 5-alpha reductase reduced by its very nature . thus Finasteride has nothing to stop or action to blunt.

but keep in mind that a drug that is 'derived' from something means that that drug is NO LONGER that from which it was derived. example, D-bol is derived from Testosterone, so by nature when taking D-bol it can not become nor 'be' testosterone itself in the body.
so with masteron or any other dht derivative. it cannot become or convert to DHT in the body because thats what it was derived from.. too many guys confuse a 'dht derivative' compound with being DHT itself , when it is not and no longer can be.

ok

now the answer is "yes'' in this regards - Masteron will lower SHBG and make more Testosterone available . this 'extra' testosterone that is now available because of using Mast, can now also be converting into DHT by the 5-aphpa reductase enzyme (which has no effect on mast but does on Test). so by taking Finasteride you will keep this "extra' available testosterone from converting to DHT and binding to areas like the prostate.

hope that all makes some sort of sense :)

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How are you not an endocronologist?

So basically dht derived compounds are not directly what causes dht sides. The issue arises because of the increased free test being available, and that test now has a chance to convert to dht by the alphafunka humpty dumpty 5 enzyme.
Right?
I feel like not many people know this in the steroid community.

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Originally Posted by Octaneforce

How are you not an endocronologist?

So basically dht derived compounds are not directly what causes dht sides. The issue arises because of the increased free test being available, and that test now has a chance to convert to dht by the alphafunka humpty dumpty 5 enzyme.
Right?
I feel like not many people know this in the steroid community.

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He was in his last year of med school (weightlifting scholarship)

Tested positive...

He became bitter.
He began his own series of human experiments in a makeshift lab that he made in the ruins of an underground fallout shelter, that had been forgotten in the forest near the university.

Once in a while there is report of a strange muscular man, running in a bikini in the woods near the university.

The locals have goven a name to this beastly scientist....

GEARHEADED

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obs

He was in his last year of med school (weightlifting scholarship)

Tested positive...

He became bitter.
He began his own series of human experiments in a makeshift lab that he made in the ruins of an underground fallout shelter, that had been forgotten in the forest near the university.

Once in a while there is report of a strange muscular man, running in a bikini in the woods near the university.

The locals have goven a name to this beastly scientist....

GEARHEADED

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Thats actually a great idea for american horror story

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Originally Posted by Octaneforce

How are you not an endocronologist?

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well maybe I'll take the title "Steroidologist" , even though endocronologist definitely pays more :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Octaneforce

So basically dht derived compounds are not directly what causes dht sides. The issue arises because of the increased free test being available, and that test now has a chance to convert to dht by the alphafunka humpty dumpty 5 enzyme.
Right?
I feel like not many people know this in the steroid community.

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in one aspect, yes. because dht derived steroids are no longer dht and cannot covert to dht in the body. but indirectly through other mechanisms of action they can cause dht 'like' side effects.

one thing to remember with DHT derived compounds and why its important to realize that they are NOT Dht itself, is that is how they are anabolic in muscle.
DHT itself has no ability to be anabolic on muscle tissue. This is due to the enzyme in muscle tissue, 3-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase, which binds to DHT and deactivates it making it unable to activate and bind to muscle tissue whatsoever.

so if Masteon for example acted like or was dht in the body, it could have no anabolic effect on muscle tissue. but being its been altered it can now be 100% anabolic in muscle tissue (unlike dht itself).
think about that .. not even testosterone is 100% mg per mg anabolic in muscle tissue (because up to 20% of test gets converted to DHT). whereas mg per mg a dht derived steroid does not convert to DHT at all and is 100% able to bind and be anabolic in muscle tissue.

just pointing that out as one big benefit to dht derived compounds. and also pointing that out as a way to show that dht derived compounds are NOT actual DHT , if they were then they couldn't be anabolic to muscle tissue.
- I'm over emphasizing this because a lot of guys will talk about running a "dht" like winstrol, var, masteron, etc.. and use the terms dht and the compound interchangeably, when in fact they are not near the same things at all

in light of what I state above about DHT not being able to be anabolic in muscle tissue because of the enzyme 3-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase deactivating it..

I'd like to invent a 'steroid' ancillary (like an AI) which is able to bind to 3-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase and blunt/block its effects on DHT. just like an AI blocks the aromatase enzyme from converting test into estrogen..
just think about all that DHT floating around our blood stream. it would then be available to bind to muscle tissue and be anabolic , WITHOUT the need of having to run any other exogenous hormone/androgen. heck we produce enough dht naturally that such a drug would have substantial benefit I'd imagine

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

in light of what I state above about DHT not being able to be anabolic in muscle tissue because of the enzyme 3-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase deactivating it..

I'd like to invent a 'steroid' ancillary (like an AI) which is able to bind to 3-hydroxysteroid-dehydrogenase and blunt/block its effects on DHT. just like an AI blocks the aromatase enzyme from converting test into estrogen..
just think about all that DHT floating around our blood stream. it would then be available to bind to muscle tissue and be anabolic , WITHOUT the need of having to run any other exogenous hormone/androgen. heck we produce enough dht naturally that such a drug would have substantial benefit I'd imagine

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So when will it be available?? LOL


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by charger69

So when will it be available?? LOL

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I'll bet it already exists. its just being used in some obscure way in medicine thats totally different then what we would want to use it for in bodybuilding. just like PGF2, which is a decent site enhancement drug for bodybuilding, yet in veterinary medicine its used to induce labor in cattle .
its out there, we just gotta find it and experiment guys. who's volunteering for the first injection experiments ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I'll bet it already exists. its just being used in some obscure way in medicine thats totally different then what we would want to use it for in bodybuilding. just like PGF2, which is a decent site enhancement drug for bodybuilding, yet in veterinary medicine its used to induce labor in cattle .
its out there, we just gotta find it and experiment guys. who's volunteering for the first injection experiments ?

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Beam me up scotty

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I'll bet it already exists. its just being used in some obscure way in medicine thats totally different then what we would want to use it for in bodybuilding. just like PGF2, which is a decent site enhancement drug for bodybuilding, yet in veterinary medicine its used to induce labor in cattle .
its out there, we just gotta find it and experiment guys. who's volunteering for the first injection experiments ?

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Send it. I shoot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obs

Beam me up scotty

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Why doesn’t this surprise me????


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by charger69

Why doesn’t this surprise me????


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Attachment 174837

850mg daily dose.....
No AI

I am horny AF.
Delts look disgusting.

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I recommend Mast for anyone running 19nors. doesn't matter wither its a bulk or a cut, it just helps make everything work better when running progestin based compounds.
I'm running Test, Deca/npp, Dbol, Mast , right now myself . I'm a big fan of Masteron and the synergistic benefits it provides.

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So.... Since we've totally derailed OP's pretty anyway, lol... You run way more gear than I do, but I'm curious what your amounts are of Test/Deca/Dbol/Mast?

Lean bulk, staying under 12BF, I'm thinking maybe 600T cyp/400D/40Dbol/300Mast. 12 weeks.

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Originally Posted by Charlie67

So.... Since we've totally derailed OP's pretty anyway, lol... You run way more gear than I do, but I'm curious what your amounts are of Test/Deca/Dbol/Mast?

Lean bulk, staying under 12BF, I'm thinking maybe 600T cyp/400D/40Dbol/300Mast. 12 weeks.

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well I don't run your traditional 12 or so week long cycles. I use compound rotation with phase cycling.. so my dosages are going to look a bit differently then they may look for someone like yourself that does basic cycles.

Test e - 1250mg
Npp - 400mg
Deca - 500mg
Dbol - 50mg day

thats where I was a couple weeks ago, but now the Test E has dropped down to 500mg per week and this added
Masteron E - 400mg per week
Masteron Prop - 100mg EOD


again dosages are 'high' (high is in quotes cause its really a relative term and person and situation dependent), but I'm not staying on these compounds at those dosages for a long 12+ week long cycle.
test has already dropped down as mast was added in..

Dbol will cease in 12 days from now.. injectable Winstrol will take its place.
NPP will cease in a few weeks.. Primobolan will take its place
Deca will stay at 500mg per week
Test will drop to 250mg per week
Masteron will switch to 100mg prop every day
Tren ace will be added at 75mg a day for about 3 weeks
I will end this phase by pulling everything out and finishing with 2 weeks of Superdrol. then I'll be off and prepare to re-phase

so again because of how I run gear, my dosages may look different then traditional cycles..

your dosages look pretty good for 12 weeks.. I'd however bump the deca up to 500mg. I like Dbol at 40mg, as long as its not just for a short kickstart.. at that dosage and for a traditional cycle I recommend running Dbol much longer , 8 weeks or more (more if you use the taper method). heck if your blood work stays good, run the dbol the whole cycle (perhaps thats what you plan)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

well I don't run your traditional 12 or so week long cycles. I use compound rotation with phase cycling.. so my dosages are going to look a bit differently then they may look for someone like yourself that does basic cycles.

Test e - 1250mg
Npp - 400mg
Deca - 500mg
Dbol - 50mg day

thats where I was a couple weeks ago, but now the Test E has dropped down to 500mg per week and this added
Masteron E - 400mg per week
Masteron Prop - 100mg EOD


again dosages are 'high' (high is in quotes cause its really a relative term and person and situation dependent), but I'm not staying on these compounds at those dosages for a long 12+ week long cycle.
test has already dropped down as mast was added in..

Dbol will cease in 12 days from now.. injectable Winstrol will take its place.
NPP will cease in a few weeks.. Primobolan will take its place
Deca will stay at 500mg per week
Test will drop to 250mg per week
Masteron will switch to 100mg prop every day
Tren ace will be added at 75mg a day for about 3 weeks
I will end this phase by pulling everything out and finishing with 2 weeks of Superdrol. then I'll be off and prepare to re-phase

so again because of how I run gear, my dosages may look different then traditional cycles..

your dosages look pretty good for 12 weeks.. I'd however bump the deca up to 500mg. I like Dbol at 40mg, as long as its not just for a short kickstart.. at that dosage and for a traditional cycle I recommend running Dbol much longer , 8 weeks or more (more if you use the taper method). heck if your blood work stays good, run the dbol the whole cycle (perhaps thats what you plan)

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Thanks GH. Damn your cycles seem complicated... Maybe some day, but for now consistency is easier :)

I was going to run the Dbol 7.3 weeks because that just happens to be how many tabs i have left :). I'll up the Deca to 500. Thanks again, i appreciate the thoughtful advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

you don't have to run Caber with Deca unless your prolactin sensitive. some guys are, lots of guys are not. I personally can run a gram of Nandrolone for months without a DA like caber or prami.
also, instead of caber you can run Vitamin b6 to blunt prolactin and of course you can add in some Masteron which blocks Prolactin at the receptor (Mast is at least anabolic and going to provide plenty of synergy to your cycle, while Caber will not)

400mg is a good starting dose imo. I prefer to combine decanoate and phenylpropiane esters. start by running NPP and Deca together while the deca ester builds up, then cruise the rest of the cycle with just the Deca ester

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Why don’t you front load deca instead of using NPP? If you double your dose, your serum levels will be that of 5 weeks in one week.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by charger69

Why don’t you front load deca instead of using NPP? If you double your dose, your serum levels will be that of 5 weeks in one week.

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so you want me to run 2000mg of nandrolone from the start instead of the 900 I usually do :) ok, 2000mg it is !

well nandrolone is nandrolone once it gets into the blood stream. but I find that doubling up on my nandrolone dosage from the start by combining NPP and Deca together is simply faster and more effective then just front loading deca with deca by itself.
for starters, mg per mg the NPP is higher dosed. 350-400mg NPP is = to about 500mg deca. and apart from serum levels, NPP is going to more quickly bind to receptors at a fuller concentration then deca . so it makes sense for me to just combine NPP with Deca as a type of 'front load' rather then doubling up my deca dosage.

IF I ran longer 12-16 week traditional cycles, rather then phase cycling, then perhaps just running deca and just front loading with deca would make sense. but being my Nandrolone run might only be 6 weeks total, I need it to hit hard and fast,, so the NPP gets added in.

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Originally Posted by hollywoodundead2016

ok so i was wondering what a typical dose of nandrolone decanoate per week is when running it with 500 mg test cyp in my case? 400 seems a little high to me honestly. i know you have to run caber with it to combat the prolactin increase. im planning on hopping on deca at the beginning of the new year. right now im running test cyp 500 mg per week and taking quite a bit of the orals roughly one day per week. also is it true that deca has some of the same sides as tren such as lowering serotonin and thyroid? which ester do ya'll prefer? decanoate or phenylpropionate?

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The old rule of thumb that worked very well was 2mg per pound of bodyweight (200lbs=400mg wk)