Planning first cycle - Last minute suggestions

**Arcânn** · 11-20-2018, 12:55 AM

I'm FINALLY at a point where I know my first cycle is inevitable. I've actually had everything I need for a while but I originally put off my first cycle because of cholesterol numbers and I've been taking steps to correct that. I'll be getting my next labs around the beginning of January and I plan to start my first cycle mid-late January (depending on labs), but I'm getting this post out the way now so that I have time to prepare for any last-minute adjustments I may need to make.

It's going to be a cutting cycle. I prefer to go that route because I don't want to try to get gains on cycle that I won't be able to maintain off cycle. I'd rather build myself up naturally, use AAS to hold on to what I have while cutting, then continue to grow naturally without having to stress over lost gains. Life will just be less stressful for me that way and this just feels like the right course for me to take with all of this.

Until I start my cycle, I'll be raising the calories to put on just a few more pounds. My current stats are:

28 years old
6'2"
209 LBS
~15-16% BF

Here's what my current cycle plan looks like:

Test E 400mg/week - 12 weeks
Nolvadex 10mg/day throughout cycle
Aromasin : Assuming I don't need it during cycle as well, I only plan to use this during the 2 weeks from last pin before PCT: 12.5mg EOD during that period
HCG : 500 IU/week. I have 6000 IU. I plan on starting this after the first 2 weeks all the way until it's time to start PCT. If it's necessary to use it during the first 2 weeks as well, I'll get some more before I start.

PCT:
Nolva: 40/20/20/20
Clomid: 75/50/50/50

During the first 4 weeks, I plan on dropping the calories by 100 a week. I don't want to drop too much too fast because I know this stuff takes time to kick in. Once it does, I maybe start to drop the calories a little faster, but I'm open to any suggestions in this area.

Let me know what you guys think and I'll take it from there

**Charlie67** · 11-20-2018, 03:42 PM

Kudos to you for putting so much thought into your first cycle.

Is your thinking that the Nolvadex will keep your estrogen in check? That's become popular around here lately. FWIW, it doesn't seem to work for me, I need Adex (or Aromasin in your case) throughout my whole cycle to keep my E a bit high, but still in check. Although 400/week is on the lower side so your results may be better. Just get bloodwork, its the only way to know whats happening. As for the HCG , you're probably ok starting after week two, I wouldn't sweat it. Opinions will vary I suspect.

**Arcânn** · 11-20-2018, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie67

Kudos to you for putting so much thought into your first cycle.

Is your thinking that the Nolvadex will keep your estrogen in check? That's become popular around here lately. FWIW, it doesn't seem to work for me, I need Adex (or Aromasin in your case) throughout my whole cycle to keep my E a bit high, but still in check. Although 400/week is on the lower side so your results may be better. Just get bloodwork, its the only way to know whats happening. As for the HCG, you're probably ok starting after week two, I wouldn't sweat it. Opinions will vary I suspect.

My thinking with the nolvadex is to just use it to keep the gyno at bay, just in case I'm susceptible. I know some people don't take anything until they start to get side effects but I'd rather not play around with that particular side effect. I have no plans on lowering estrogen until the end of my cycle, as a means of attempting to keep a good test/estro balance. But I will get labs done after 6 weeks to see what all my levels are. If I'm feeling some bad estro-related sides and the bloodwork backs that up, I'll start using aromasin . But yeah, nolva is just there for the gyno and I'll let the estrogen take its course unless it gets really out of hand.

**GearHeaded** · 11-20-2018, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie67

Kudos to you for putting so much thought into your first cycle.

Is your thinking that the Nolvadex will keep your estrogen in check? That's become popular around here lately. FWIW, it doesn't seem to work for me, I need Adex (or Aromasin in your case) throughout my whole cycle to keep my E a bit high, but still in check. Although 400/week is on the lower side so your results may be better. Just get bloodwork, .

hey Charlie , maybe you already know this and perhaps I'm mis understanding what your saying here.
but when you run Nolva as your anti estrogen with no AI , your blood serum levels of E are supposed to get high and above range. the Nolva does nothing to lower serum levels (its just working at the receptor site itself).
so blood work will NOT tell you how well your nolva is working at blocking undesirable estrogen side effects at the receptors.

the benefit of running Nolva instead of an AI is so that your blood serum levels of E can elevate along with your androgen level elevation and give you all those benefits of elevated E (like increased anabolism , increased IGF and HGH, increased HDL etc). BUT as a SERM ('selective' estrogen receptor modulator) its "selectively" blocking negative estrogenic effects at receptors like breast tissue (even if your blood work showed high e levels).

this has benefits over an AI because an AI can only stop negative estrogen side effects by lowering serum levels of Estrogen (so your lowering the good and the bad together). Nolva allows for high blood serum levels of estrogen while still blocking negative effects, so you get the good but block the bad, sort of speak.

so if you get blood work while running high dosages of test along with Nolva but no AI, you should expect your serum levels of estrogen to be high , this is what you want

to clarify . your not running nolva in an attempt to keep serum levels of estrogen in range. not at all. your running it so that the negative effects of estrogen are blocked at the receptor site even if your serum levels are off the charts.

**GearHeaded** · 11-20-2018, 05:11 PM

Nolva allows you to be able to get very high elevated blood serum levels of Estrogen, but its still going to block the receptor sites at things like breast tissue . so even if E is off the charts, you still won't get gyno (ie, if your running enough Nolva).

so when you get your 6 week blood work done, and it shows elevated estrogen.. don't worry about that. as long as negative estrogen sides are blunted and your not having symptoms or issues physically your good to go.

**GearHeaded** · 11-20-2018, 05:25 PM

oh and BTW , op. very well thought out first cycle. I like that your running an AI at the tail end of this cycle going into PCT (you may consider running it about 3 weeks out from PCT rather then 2. this is going to help your PCT and recovery go smoother). I like using HCG at week 2 rather then day one. you may consider doubling your dosage the last two weeks going into your PCT.
and of course I like your use of using Nolva instead of the standard AI the duration of your cycle just to keep negative estrogen sides in check

note : if you cutting on this cycle, I would highly recommend a carb cycling approach rather then a strict low carb or any type of keto diet. on a first cycle like this the carbs are really going to help

**Family_guy** · 11-20-2018, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Arcânn

I'm FINALLY at a point where I know my first cycle is inevitable. I've actually had everything I need for a while but I originally put off my first cycle because of cholesterol numbers and I've been taking steps to correct that. I'll be getting my next labs around the beginning of January and I plan to start my first cycle mid-late January (depending on labs), but I'm getting this post out the way now so that I have time to prepare for any last-minute adjustments I may need to make.

It's going to be a cutting cycle. I prefer to go that route because I don't want to try to get gains on cycle that I won't be able to maintain off cycle. I'd rather build myself up naturally, use AAS to hold on to what I have while cutting, then continue to grow naturally without having to stress over lost gains. Life will just be less stressful for me that way and this just feels like the right course for me to take with all of this.

Until I start my cycle, I'll be raising the calories to put on just a few more pounds. My current stats are:

28 years old
6'2"
209 LBS
~15-16% BF

Here's what my current cycle plan looks like:

Test E 400mg/week - 12 weeks
Nolvadex 10mg/day throughout cycle
Aromasin : Assuming I don't need it during cycle as well, I only plan to use this during the 2 weeks from last pin before PCT: 12.5mg EOD during that period
HCG : 500 IU/week. I have 6000 IU. I plan on starting this after the first 2 weeks all the way until it's time to start PCT. If it's necessary to use it during the first 2 weeks as well, I'll get some more before I start.

PCT:
Nolva: 40/20/20/20
Clomid: 75/50/50/50

During the first 4 weeks, I plan on dropping the calories by 100 a week. I don't want to drop too much too fast because I know this stuff takes time to kick in. Once it does, I maybe start to drop the calories a little faster, but I'm open to any suggestions in this area.

Let me know what you guys think and I'll take it from there

That’s pretty much exactly what I want to do for my first cycle someday. I would also only do 400 mg test. I’m curious as to you chose 400 instead of the “standard” 500mg/week?

**The God Himself** · 11-21-2018, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

oh and BTW , op. very well thought out first cycle. I like that your running an AI at the tail end of this cycle going into PCT (you may consider running it about 3 weeks out from PCT rather then 2. this is going to help your PCT and recovery go smoother). I like using HCG at week 2 rather then day one. you may consider doubling your dosage the last two weeks going into your PCT.
and of course I like your use of using Nolva instead of the standard AI the duration of your cycle just to keep negative estrogen sides in check

note : if you cutting on this cycle, I would highly recommend a carb cycling approach rather then a strict low carb or any type of keto diet. on a first cycle like this the carbs are really going to help

I want to note that if you are using SSRI (anti-depressant), some of old generation drugs like paroxetine will inhibit tamoxifene from converting into its active metabolite endoxifene at liver. (Escitalopram is safe, for example).
So if you don’t want to use AI and run nolva while youre using SSRIs, you should up your nolva dosage or consider adding an AI.

**Arcânn** · 11-21-2018, 05:09 AM

Originally Posted by Family_guy

That’s pretty much exactly what I want to do for my first cycle someday. I would also only do 400 mg test. I’m curious as to you chose 400 instead of the “standard” 500mg/week?

I'm doing 400 instead of 500 mainly to keep the side effects at bay, particularly acne, although it sounds like most people get that during/after PCT rather than on cycle. But acne seems to be caused more by hormonal changes than anything else, and it seems to get better for most people with each cycle. But I figured I'd limit the hormonal shifts as much as reasonably possible. Not mention the myriad of other possible sides.

And on top of that, since I'm running this cycle as a means of maintaining rather than building, adding more, especially on a first cycle, probably wouldn't benefit me much anyway.

At the end of the day, I'm starting from a body that I'm already okay with so at this point I'm willing to sacrifice possible gains in order to make sure I can still take my shirt off without people throwing clearasil at me (or whatever that acne cream is). And my health is more important than the extra gains, especially on a first cycle when I have no clue how this is going to effect everything.

Basically, I'm coming at this whole thing with the attitude of a hypochondriac haha

**Jerry2020** · 11-21-2018, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by The God Himself

I want to note that if you are using SSRI (anti-depressant), some of old generation drugs like paroxetine will inhibit tamoxifene from converting into its active metabolite endoxifene at liver. (Escitalopram is safe, for example).
So if you don’t want to use AI and run nolva while youre using SSRIs, you should up your nolva dosage or consider adding an AI.

Hey TGH, is this true for SNRIs as well? I’m currently on Pristiq and was wondering if this would be impacted.