Estrogen levels TOO low? Causing fatigue?

[Dobie-BOY]

I have been taking 12.5 mgs of exemestane ED to get rid of a little gyno. I have been super tired, but I also started taking 75 mgs of effexor er ED about 5 days ago. I know effexor can do that, but I think my estrogen is too low also. I am switching to nolvadex . My question, I guess, is if my estrogen levels are high enough that its causing gyno nolvadex wont lower my E levels, just block certain receptors. I want to start a combination of nolvadex and exemestane. I am thinking about 10 mg of nolvadex ED and 6.25 mgs of exemestane every 3 days. Then get bloodwork. Thoughts?

[BarbellNinja]

I'm currently dealing with a small lump that has been an issue for years when a cycle. My solution is a combination of Exem and Nolva with a sliding scale of dosages. I always tried to dial back the Exem when upping dosage of Nolva which all but makes the lump disappear. Then, I stop the Nolva thinking I have into under control only to have the lump reappear. I've arrived at 10mg Nolva per day with 12.5 Exem every other day and it seems to be working. I'm 3 weeks into a 12 week run of Test Cyp 500mg per week and Proviron 50mg per day. Bottom line, I need to pull bloods and see where I'm really at. I'm waiting for the mid way point. There's really no logical reason to keep guessing.

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[Dobie-BOY]

Ya, that sounds about in line with what I'm gonna do considering the relative test dosages. However, I may go with 5 mgs nolvadex / day

[Ashop]

Personally I would go with one or the other, either an AI or SERM. Blood work always tells the story, I would recommend it.

[KennyJ]

Personally I would go with one or the other, either an AI or SERM. Blood work always tells the story, I would recommend it.

This will be a good thread for me to learn something. I'm not an advanced AAS user but I thought an AI would prevent further gyno but not reverse it and nolva would reverse gyno. The nolva will reverse gyno but not lower his estrogen too much right? The AI will lower his estrogen but will it reverse gyno?

[edmondle]

From my experience with all the blood work I’ve seen, people with previous Gyno problem will Start to get a little lump under the breast even E2 is in higher end of normal, I’ll keep the normal AI dose and add a little nolva just to block the estrogen receptors in the breast area.

[Chrisp83TRT]

This will be a good thread for me to learn something. I'm not an advanced AAS user but I thought an AI would prevent further gyno but not reverse it and nolva would reverse gyno. The nolva will reverse gyno but not lower his estrogen too much right? The AI will lower his estrogen but will it reverse gyno?

AI doesn't reverse gyno ... It prevents the esto from binding ...
If your E is in check , you're not likely to get sides , when you are dealing with high E and want it high , you should be running nolva to avoid the sides of gyno from high e.

It's always a choice bro haha

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[GearHeaded]

Nolvadex /Tamoxifen IS essentially an estrogen itself . its just 'selective' in its binding and what it communicates to the receptor (thats why its a SERM , 'selective estrogen receptor modulator').

Nolva is NOT going to lower blood levels of estrogen in any way shape or form (again , it itself is essentially and estrogen in a way). But its going to 'occupy' certain receptor sites (like in breast tissue), thus not allowing other forms of estrogen in the body to bind to these sites.

an AI on the other hand is a complexly different drug all together. it simply works by blunting the enzyme that is responsible for converting testosterone into estrogen in the first place (ie, the Aromatase enzyme). being you have less testosterone then converting into estrogen, your blood serum levels of estrogen will begin to go down.
the AI does not block estrogen or blunt its effects on actual receptors themselves.


the best way to deal with gyno is to block estrogen at the receptor site of the breast tissue itself. AND stop testosterone from converting into estrogen in the fist place which is still capable of 'feeding' the gyno.
40mg of Nolva per day
1.5mg Letro EOD
would do the trick

for more of a preventative measures for gyno flare up, just Nolva itself will work (at like 20mg daily), but adding Arimidex or other AI definitely aides in the matter.

your best bet if your gyno prone though .. simply don't run drugs that aromatize or are heavily estrogenic . plenty of good steroids out there that don't convert to estrogen (in fact a majority of them don't convert to estrogen to any high degree).
why guys thinking they have to keep taking Testosterone with their cycles at cycle dosages, when test is heavily estrogenic, and they are estrogen sensitive and gyno prone , is beyond me.

[Quester]

Effexor could be making the problem worse. This is the article I could get but there were quite a few suggesting increased prolactin via Effexor. I'm quite aware, and have posted before about SSRIs causing increased prolactin.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5426493/
Dose Dependent Course of Hyperprolactinemic and Normoprolactinemic Galactorrhea Induced by Venlafaxine

Abstract:
Venlafaxine is a serotonergic and noradrenergic reuptake inhibitor which is used for the treatment of depression. We report a case of galactorrhea in a patient with major depressive disorder after starting treatment with venlafaxine. In particular, we discuss the course of hyper and normoprolactinemic galactorrhea. We managed this side effect initially by dose reduction and further by switching to essitalopram. Physicians should be aware of endocrinologic side effects such as galactorrhea during the serotonin and noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor treatment.