Advice on 2nd cycle @Gearhead

[Anon19283]

Hey gearhead to start please send me a PM with a way to contact you. I'd like to purchase coaching/advice from you.

I'm planning my second cycle and would like some input on it.
I've done a previous cycle of 620mg Test C/ week for 10 weeks with great results.

Stats:
25yo
5' 8''
~185lb
~15% bodyfat

Baseline Compounds:
I'm on TRT on the following
50mg Test EOD
10IU HGH/ day (Started 4iu/day in May and have slowly worked my way to 10iu)
250IU HCG EOD
25-40IU insulin/day

Other compounds I have on hand:
Deca
Primo
Test
Nolva
Caber
T3

For my second cycle here is what I was planning:
20 Week Cycle
-Primo 400mg E3D
-100-200mg Deca/Week
-500mg Test + TRT Dose
-10mg Nolva/day
-250IU HCG EOD
-25-40IU insulin/day
-8-12IU HGH/day
-50mg T3/day


My diet is very good and I lift 6 days a week and do fasted cardio 5 to 7 days a week.
My goal is to put on clean mass with this cycle and to prep myself for a much stronger cycle come summer.

Please give me any advice/input.

[jackfrost88]

This has to be one of the most aggressive 2nd cycles for 20weeks with 12iu of hgh and T3 and slin?? Others will chime in that know more than me but that is completely overkill for a guy who's 185lbs and 15%

[ksingh93]

This has to be one of the most aggressive 2nd cycles for 20weeks with 12iu of hgh and T3 and slin?? Others will chime in that know more than me but that is completely overkill for a guy who's 185lbs and 15%

this

[fiddlesticks]

A "much stronger" than 40 iu insulin and 12 iu GH cycle is pretty nutty lol.

[charger69]

Have you taken slin before? If not, then you are dancing with the devil.
I would say 20 iu of slin ( after working up to it) would be sufficient.
One of the rules that I follow is not to add more than one compound at a time. The reason being is because you may have some bad sides, retain extra water, etc etc. if you add multiple compounds, you do not know what is causing it- you are just guessing.
HCG should be 250 2X/ week not EOD.
I would also say you must have quite a bit of $ at the qty of hGH.
IMO you are trying to run before you walk. I do not see why the hGh, why the T3, why the slin,etc. yes they do have their place in cycles, but being your 2nd cycle, I do not see the need at this point.


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[Eduke93]

10iu HGH a day... Is it perscribed???

As per above, aggressive second cycle... obviously it will work but why start with something so aggressive when you can get similar results from using much less? Less is more at this stage, use what your body needs then adjust doses dependant on progress.

[redz]

How will you even know what compound is causing an issue if it comes up? Keep it simple and gradually add in more compounds and drugs through future cycles.

[Couchlockd]

Run the primo and test toss in clen if you must and call it a day.

Of course keep the AI and nolva on hand.

Maybe try bits of slin.

[Anon19283]

Have you taken slin before? If not, then you are dancing with the devil.
I would say 20 iu of slin ( after working up to it) would be sufficient.
One of the rules that I follow is not to add more than one compound at a time. The reason being is because you may have some bad sides, retain extra water, etc etc. if you add multiple compounds, you do not know what is causing it- you are just guessing.
HCG should be 250 2X/ week not EOD.
I would also say you must have quite a bit of $ at the qty of hGH.
IMO you are trying to run before you walk. I do not see why the hGh, why the T3, why the slin,etc. yes they do have their place in cycles, but being your 2nd cycle, I do not see the need at this point.


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Yes I've been using slin since october at doses up to 50iu per day. Along with T3 thrown in randomly.
The money for HGH isn't in issue and I'm keeping the dose high to benefit myself in the long term for putting on size.

My TRT script has me injecting EOD w/ Test C. It's through defy so I'm assuming the doc had a good reason. I am running the slin and HGH year round so that is why it's included in the cycle. The only new compounds I was adding in was the test and primo and deca, and I'm just running the deca at a dose on the higher end of a joint support dose.

I know this isn't a simple cycle but I've got my mind pretty set on it and I want to give it a go to prep for a much stronger cycle later this year.

[Couchlockd]

Yes I've been using slin since october at doses up to 50iu per day. Along with T3 thrown in randomly.
The money for HGH isn't in issue and I'm keeping the dose high to benefit myself in the long term for putting on size.

My TRT script has me injecting EOD w/ Test C. It's through defy so I'm assuming the doc had a good reason. I am running the slin and HGH year round so that is why it's included in the cycle. The only new compounds I was adding in was the test and primo and deca, and I'm just running the deca at a dose on the higher end of a joint support dose.

I know this isn't a simple cycle but I've got my mind pretty set on it and I want to give it a go to prep for a much stronger cycle later this year.

Ok, so you've researched it and seem to know what's up

I'd say run it.

[fiddlesticks]

Yes I've been using slin since october at doses up to 50iu per day. Along with T3 thrown in randomly.
The money for HGH isn't in issue and I'm keeping the dose high to benefit myself in the long term for putting on size.

My TRT script has me injecting EOD w/ Test C. It's through defy so I'm assuming the doc had a good reason. I am running the slin and HGH year round so that is why it's included in the cycle. The only new compounds I was adding in was the test and primo and deca, and I'm just running the deca at a dose on the higher end of a joint support dose.

I know this isn't a simple cycle but I've got my mind pretty set on it and I want to give it a go to prep for a much stronger cycle later this year.

Damn! How many IU at once?

[Windex]

Yes I've been using slin since october at doses up to 50iu per day. Along with T3 thrown in randomly.
The money for HGH isn't in issue and I'm keeping the dose high to benefit myself in the long term for putting on size.

My TRT script has me injecting EOD w/ Test C. It's through defy so I'm assuming the doc had a good reason. I am running the slin and HGH year round so that is why it's included in the cycle. The only new compounds I was adding in was the test and primo and deca, and I'm just running the deca at a dose on the higher end of a joint support dose.

I know this isn't a simple cycle but I've got my mind pretty set on it and I want to give it a go to prep for a much stronger cycle later this year.

Your first post finishes by asking for advice but this post indicates your mind is made up.

How can you accept feedback and constructive criticism if your mind is made up?

Couchlock gave great advice, but are you actually looking for validation, not advice ?

[redz]

You receptors are so fresh right now it’s truly a waste to run a cycle like that this early.

[KennyJ]

You are 25 with only one cycle of test and you had great results. I'm no vet but man you have many good years ahead of you. Personally I would listen to the advice given above. Why not just try upping the test and deca(if you're on TRT for life) for 16 weeks and see how that works before running 5 different things for 20 weeks?

[kelkel]

prep myself for a much stronger cycle come summer.

.

What does that mean?

[Anon19283]

I'm using 5-6IU in the morning before cardio and the same dose in the afternoon after lifting.


I was just looking for ways to alter this cycle or do it more efficiently windex

Kelkel, I am using this to build clean mass and up my strength before doing a aggressive cycle meant for putting on shear mass later this year. I'm taking advantage of using gearhead for coaching so am not going into these completely blind, as well as having put in a good amount of time on research of my own

[kelkel]

Kelkel, I am using this to build clean mass and up my strength before doing a aggressive cycle meant for putting on shear mass later this year. I'm taking advantage of using gearhead for coaching so am not going into these completely blind, as well as having put in a good amount of time on research of my own

Well, you are in excellent hands then. How are you looking currently?

[Anon19283]

Well, you are in excellent hands then. How are you looking currently?

I look the best I ever have. 2 years ago I was ~130lbs and couldn't gain weight for the life of me. Had to do a very dirt bulk to get up to 185 over about 8 months with lifting. Probably hit 25% bodyfat though. Cut back down to ~165lbs and then have slowly worked my way back up to where I'm at using insuling and that 10 week test cycle. Stronger and putting up more weight in every exercise than I ever have.

I've fractured my back twice so it's been a slow process for me to start lifting as it took almost 5 years from the 2nd injury to be able to lift any free-weights at all without having my back be destroyed for days.

For anyone else with a similar injury I can't even tell you how much insulin has changed my life. It won't allow me to post links on here but insulin has very strong anti-inflammatory properties which caused most of my issues, because any use of those muscles would just turn them into a tight inflammed mess where I couldn't do any exercise without only feeling it in my injury spot. It does so much more than painkillers or muscle relaxers have ever done.

[fiddlesticks]

I look the best I ever have. 2 years ago I was ~130lbs and couldn't gain weight for the life of me. Had to do a very dirt bulk to get up to 185 over about 8 months with lifting. Probably hit 25% bodyfat though. Cut back down to ~165lbs and then have slowly worked my way back up to where I'm at using insuling and that 10 week test cycle. Stronger and putting up more weight in every exercise than I ever have.

I've fractured my back twice so it's been a slow process for me to start lifting as it took almost 5 years from the 2nd injury to be able to lift any free-weights at all without having my back be destroyed for days.

For anyone else with a similar injury I can't even tell you how much insulin has changed my life. It won't allow me to post links on here but insulin has very strong anti-inflammatory properties which caused most of my issues, because any use of those muscles would just turn them into a tight inflammed mess where I couldn't do any exercise without only feeling it in my injury spot. It does so much more than painkillers or muscle relaxers have ever done.

This is very interesting. I have spoken about insulin painkilling properties before, its extremely potent.

[Anon19283]

This is very interesting. I have spoken about insulin painkilling properties before, its extremely potent.

It doesn't seem to be a painkiller in the way normal pills are. It reduces inflammation greatly so I am able to actually workout all those muscles that were so weak and stubborn that as soon as I exerted them they tightend and swolled up where I couldn't strengthen them or make progress. If you google "insulin and inflammation" there are a few studies showing it reduces inflammation. 10-15IU doses do wonders for me. I can't post links for having under 25 posts or I'd link it.

Seriously life changing. I spent 5 years trying every pill and physical therapy there was and now on my 4th month of insulin I've set PR's for every exercise and can actually work those muscles.

[Cuz]

Damn bro not trying to hate but you could get to 200lbs with just test and deca or dbol....little extreme there... well no way extreme using slin and growth.....ehhh i wouldnt advise that myself but youre going to do it anyway i believe just be careful

[Family_guy]

Hey gearhead to start please send me a PM with a way to contact you. I'd like to purchase coaching/advice from you.

I'm planning my second cycle and would like some input on it.
I've done a previous cycle of 620mg Test C/ week for 10 weeks with great results.

Stats:
25yo
5' 8''
~185lb
~15% bodyfat

Baseline Compounds:
I'm on TRT on the following
50mg Test EOD
10IU HGH/ day (Started 4iu/day in May and have slowly worked my way to 10iu)
250IU HCG EOD
25-40IU insulin/day

Other compounds I have on hand:
Deca
Primo
Test
Nolva
Caber
T3

For my second cycle here is what I was planning:
20 Week Cycle
-Primo 400mg E3D
-100-200mg Deca/Week
-500mg Test + TRT Dose
-10mg Nolva/day
-250IU HCG EOD
-25-40IU insulin/day
-8-12IU HGH/day
-50mg T3/day


My diet is very good and I lift 6 days a week and do fasted cardio 5 to 7 days a week.
My goal is to put on clean mass with this cycle and to prep myself for a much stronger cycle come summer.

Please give me any advice/input.

When do you plan on starting this cycle?

[Anon19283]

Damn bro not trying to hate but you could get to 200lbs with just test and deca or dbol....little extreme there... well no way extreme using slin and growth.....ehhh i wouldnt advise that myself but youre going to do it anyway i believe just be careful

The only new compounds I'm adding into this is the Primo. I've done everything else. And am just upping my TRT dose of Deca from 100mg to 200mg/week. I plan on getting a good base with this cycle to run a higher dose Deca/Dbol/Test cycle later this year to really bulk up. I'm using this to build a stronger base.

I'm starting this cycle the 1st week of Feb

[Family_guy]

The only new compounds I'm adding into this is the Primo. I've done everything else. And am just upping my TRT dose of Deca from 100mg to 200mg/week. I plan on getting a good base with this cycle to run a higher dose Deca/Dbol/Test cycle later this year to really bulk up. I'm using this to build a stronger base.

I'm starting this cycle the 1st week of Feb

I’d be very interested in seeing your results. Have you thought about logging your cycle on this forum?

[Anon19283]

I’d be very interested in seeing your results. Have you thought about logging your cycle on this forum?

Yeah I plan on logging everything here once I start just to get more information out there on this combo.

[fiddlesticks]

It doesn't seem to be a painkiller in the way normal pills are. It reduces inflammation greatly so I am able to actually workout all those muscles that were so weak and stubborn that as soon as I exerted them they tightend and swolled up where I couldn't strengthen them or make progress. If you google "insulin and inflammation" there are a few studies showing it reduces inflammation. 10-15IU doses do wonders for me. I can't post links for having under 25 posts or I'd link it.

Seriously life changing. I spent 5 years trying every pill and physical therapy there was and now on my 4th month of insulin I've set PR's for every exercise and can actually work those muscles.

There are extremely clear workout/muscle fatigue painkilling systems it effects, its one of the biggest features of insulin imo. Literally allows you to train impossibly hard due to it numbing cns pain from extreme training.

[GearHeaded]

just want to say in regards to guys saying this is a big cycle you have planned and is over kill..
well look at the AAS used. you have

800mg of Primo (which is basically the safest and least harsh steroid you can run)
Test at just above a cruise dosage
Deca at a female or therapeutic dosage

theres nothing 'harsh' or extreme about this. my recommendation would actually be to increase dosages and rotate compounds (ie, not run this for 20 weeks but add in various other compounds along the way of the 20 weeks).


as for the T3. its just regulating metabolism and helping with nutrient partitioning here. HGH dosage is high but as long as its limited to only 6 months and not run that high for long term. Slin, well any dosage is fine as long as its "complementing" your diet and your not having to force in a ton of extra carbs to feed the insulin .. its really person dependent, and not for anyone else to say wither 10iu a day or 50iu a day is a high dosage or not (really depends on the person and their diet).


personally, I have my own recommendations on how best to grow on a "20 week" 2nd cycle. no its not the cycle that OP has planned, but I still don't think that his plan was/is all that off base or that aggressive like some posters are indicating it is. I think he would do fairly well with his plan and have great gains and very little side effects.

[GearHeaded]

so heres just a couple ideas I'll throw out there (nothing 'formal', the master plan we can discuss in private)

Primobolan is an awesome choice to run as your long term growth anabolic. running 600mg for 20 weeks is going to provide you with quality tissue and little to no negative side effects. keep in mind that Primo has some anti estrogen properties to it (if you just added Primo to your TRT, you may find your E2 levels come down on your routine blood work)

as for Test. I would vary the dosages of test depending on what phase of your cycle your in. Test is mainly going to be used as an androgen and a estrogen producer where/when needed.. there is no point in running Test as your main anabolic (then having to add ancillaries) when there are other drugs that work much better as an anabolic .
so for example, start out your 20 week long journey with a high dosage of test , 1 gram, with very little AI usage (as little as you can get by with) to elevate your androgen and estrogen levels (which is going to help sensitize and stimulate androgen receptors as well as provide secondary growth factors). after say 6-8 weeks of this, then back your dosage down and rotate in another compound to provide the androgenic or anabolic effects your after (eg., add in Masteron). IF however your responding really well to high amounts of test and estrogen, then stick with a fairly hefty dosage and just add in the other compounds. (some guys will actually respond better to low dosage test and high dosage anabolics, and other guys respond well to high dosage test and higher amounts of E)

you can stick with your one anabolic , in this case Primobolan, the entire 20 weeks. but only that. with other compounds your going to want to do phases and rotation of compounds. some guys may have EQ as their main anabolic , some guys Deca, etc.. but either way just pick ONE only and stick with that one but rotate you other compounds.

why compound rotation?

think of different AAS as different "micro chips". and each micro chip has its own unique set of information. you plug these micro chips into your body to upload muscle building information.
IF you only plug in testosterone, then your body will only have the information that testosterone provides, nothing more and nothing less. but if you also plug in Var and Masteron, you'll also get the unique muscle building information that these "micro chips" provide as well. so by rotation of compounds your simply constantly uploading new information for your body to use towards muscle building (and a lot more of course).

thats a very very simplified way of explaining whats actually happening at the cellular level and the transcribing of DNA that happens when taking various AAS.
but the constant providing of 'new' information is going to help you build muscle faster and more optimally (plus the synergistic benefits to be had by using multiple compounds)


being your on a lot of insulin, it may be beneficial to run T4 during most of your cycle rather then T3 (this is a minor detail). and if you did stick with the T3, then for your goals of growing I would lower the dosage and utilize it strictly for metabolism regulation and nutrient uptake (50mcg per day is going to promote weight loss)

if you can afford 12iu of HGH per day then your going to want to use that strategically. so a small dose in the morning to promote lipolysis. another dose later on with a large meal and insulin to promote anabolism and IGF production. and another dose around your workout.


as for deca . your cutting yourself short by only running a therapeutic dosage. with your goal of wanting to add on more mass then deca is going to be your best friend. I'd shoot for 400-600mg a week with an NPP front load.. with the NPP and deca combo you can get 12 weeks worth of results in only 8 weeks. then move on to your next phase and compound rotation.
simply running 200mg of Deca for 20 weeks is not going to yield what a npp/deca combo can provide in 8 weeks

I'm a fan of running a few select orals during a long run like you have planned. starting off different phases of your cycle with orals has some big benefits. one of which is an increase in IGF production in the liver, which is going to help with your overall growth and help provide permanent gains.
I won't go into details now, but placing some orals in at certain times would be beneficial to your goals.


your use of Nolva instead of an AI is a good idea (especially being you want to grow). but its usage is going to depend on a few factors and change over time.
perhaps with 500mg of test BUT with 800mg of primo in there, you'll find you need NO estrogen control at all. or perhaps with 800mg of Test and NO primo in there, you do need estrogen control .
so have the nolva (and even an AI) on. hand and use when needed . if there is any doubt about you being gyno prone, then yes just run 10mg daily