Running lower doses worth it or not?

[Quester]

I've never heard this but it's an interesting view point. I wonder if we can find some data to back this..?

I've heard this on Dr Randy Mclains "ask the Doc" episodes. And, it fits with the logic, once you hit shutdown (0), that's it, there is no below sea level or more severely shutdown. From another standpoint on the same issue, Mclain also spoke of the length of shutdown being more important than the amount or type of substance employed. To post the orriginal story I'd have to watch all those videos again and, NO.

[AlphaMindz]

I've heard this on Dr Randy Mclains "ask the Doc" episodes. And, it fits with the logic, once you hit shutdown (0), that's it, there is no below sea level or more severely shutdown. From another standpoint on the same issue, Mclain also spoke of the length of shutdown being more important than the amount or type of substance employed. To post the orriginal story I'd have to watch all those videos again and, NO.

Doctor Randy is the man! Yeah I know the episode you're referring to but there's a slight difference in what we're talking about...Doc was saying that it's better to take higher doses for shorter durations than taking lower doses for extended periods of time in terms of hpta and reproductive health.

What Octane was saying is that the two will yield the same results because it's overall mg of drug that's taken, whether it's a high dose for a short time or lower dose for a longer time....This is what I'm curious to see data on.

I agree with the doc when he says the "continuity of use" is the biggest determining factor for hpta recovery.

But I'm not convinced that a guy blasting a gram a week for 6 weeks would yield the same results as a guy using 500mg a week for 3 months. The body can only synthesize new muscle tissue so fast, even with drugs...So I feel like what you're saying Octane can def be true in some instances, but I feel like longer cycles allow the body to maximize growth as often times people cut their gains way short by running these quick blasts...right as things really get going they're ending their cycle and running a PCT or dropping back down to trt and that doesn't seem optimal to me..

[GearHeaded]

I could be totally wrong .. but I think Octaneforce was referring to my 'phase cycling' protocols that I've given examples of at various places on these forums. and how that its better to use a higher dose of a long ester for a shorter period for a 'phase' then extend over the long haul

example.
16 weeks of EQ at 500mg per week (4 bottles of EQ, 8000mg total). and thats your whole cycle. is NOT going to be as beneficial as running double the dosage in half the time , so 1000mg of EQ for 8 weeks (4 bottles of EQ, 8000mg total) SO THAT you can then move on to a new 'phase' and a new compound for another 8 weeks (so still 16 weeks total).
so instead of just 16 weeks of EQ at 500mg.. you can get 1000mg of EQ in 8 weeks, and 1000mg of Deca in the next 8 weeks. you're potential for gains is much higher doing the two combined phases. and being these are long esters, the 8,000mg of EQ that you inject the first 8 weeks is still going to be hangin around and getting utilized the second half of the cycle.

in either example, your total dosages of the EQ are still exactly the same

note: this has nothing to do with HPTA recovery though.

[Slacker78]

Interesting thread. Gearheaded, i was wondering about AAS which have a great SHBG affinity. SHGB binds both androgens and estrogens. Blocking SHBG ( reducing its amount ) with Var for example, we raise up free test amount but even estrogens amount as their affinity with the latters also. So, even we have an compound which does not aromatize, as it has a strong SHBG binding affinity, we could expect the same a little ( or modest ) free estrogens amount increasing. Obviously, this estrogens amount shouldn't be the same as a direct aromatization from a compound, but i suppose it could be modest. Maybe i was wrong, but this doubt got in my mind as my girlfriend as i told in some previous thread, is in a cycle with Primo and Var and even if she's keeping a low carb ( carb cycling precisely ) diet, she seems prone to get a little of water underskin, especially in belly. For this reason, i was thinking about estrogens/SHBG stuff....

[Obs]

You cut up a lot slacker! Nice work

[Quester]

Doctor Randy is the man! Yeah I know the episode you're referring to but there's a slight difference in what we're talking about...Doc was saying that it's better to take higher doses for shorter durations than taking lower doses for extended periods of time in terms of hpta and reproductive health.

What Octane was saying is that the two will yield the same results because it's overall mg of drug that's taken, whether it's a high dose for a short time or lower dose for a longer time....This is what I'm curious to see data on.

I agree with the doc when he says the "continuity of use" is the biggest determining factor for hpta recovery.

Brother, I think that is exactly what I said but, sometimes I find that although I didn't think I mispoke, by finding out what someone else heard me say, I get to realize that there was some aspect of the related issues that I missed. I'm wondering if that is the case here?

Um, you mean that Dr Randy's advice was about HPTA shutdown and y'all are talking about another issue having to do with duration v severity of use?
Ooops
Unfortunately, this has been happening more and more but I thought it was just in Nursing School that I didn't understand my professors, nurses. The difference with them is that I often don't know what they're talking about and I'm sure that they don't either.

[Rjr1983]

1 shot of whisky will do what 1 shot of whisky does .
10 shots of whisky will do what 10 shots of whisky does .

its really that simple. even with AAS. if you want one shot of whisky effects (a slight calming effect but thats about it) then take the one shot, if you want 10 shot of whisky effects (getting blasted drunk) then take the 10 shots.

is 1 shot of whisky worth it ? well sure when the context and situation calls for being reserved (perhaps you have to drive home). but at other times you just may want to do the 10 shots.

really depends on what your after for the current situation.

despite what is popular for guys to say , more actually does do more. period. 800mg does more then 400mg. but that does not mean 800mg is the answer for you.. but its stupid to pretend, like guys do, that low dosages are somehow 'noble' and that higher dosages don't work better then lower ones . thats just bullshit and not how drugs even work

Agree wholeheartedly. Just monitor yourself, as you may hit a point of of diminishing gains with a shit ton of sides... Cause like GH said, 10 shots does what ten shots does, and that includes the negatives.

[GearHeaded]

nteresting thread. Gearheaded, i was wondering about AAS which have a great SHBG affinity. SHGB binds both androgens and estrogens. Blocking SHBG ( reducing its amount ) with Var for example, we raise up free test amount but even estrogens amount as their affinity with the latters also. So, even we have an compound which does not aromatize, as it has a strong SHBG binding affinity, we could expect the same a little ( or modest ) free estrogens amount increasing. Obviously, this estrogens amount shouldn't be the same as a direct aromatization from a compound, but i suppose it could be modest.

I think I get what your saying here Slacker and its an observant question.. couple things to note:

- yes SHBG binds estrogens. but it does so very poorly. Androgens have a 20x stronger affinity to SHBG then does Estrogen. so I don't think a lowering of SHBG would even show a notable change in blood serum levels of Estrogen on a blood test (let alone have any dramatic estrogenic effects on the body). however a spike in Androgens, being thats what SHBG mainly binds, will probably be noted.

this may be why drugs like Proviron, which essentially displace androgens from SHBG, are androgenic . its not that Proviron is that androgenic in and of itself, its just that so much more androgens are now available from being displaced from SHBG that you get these androgenic effects from taking the drug. eg., lower SHBG and DHT should elevate substantially (this is why some guys get DHT side effects from drugs that don't even convert to DHT themselves, its just that they lower SHBG and thus way more DHT is now available)

- Also. Many of the drugs that have the capacity to lower SHBG and free up more test in the body are also drugs that have anti estrogenic properties. example, Primo. when you run Primo with say TRT your SHBG is going to go down a bit, free test is coming up just a bit. BUT Estrogen comes down just a bit ... according to your thought estrogen should go up because SHBG went down. but this is not the case. other drugs like Masteron also have this ability to lower estrogen and raise free T.


So NO I would not worry about any estrogenic effects or estrogen increase from drugs that have an affinity for SHBG or that lower SHBG, but are not aromatizing drugs.

[Obs]

Smart people in here.
I am a little intimidated.