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Thread: Running lower doses worth it or not?

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    Running lower doses worth it or not?

    If you ran something like NPP or tren a for 12 weeks at 100mg-250mg per week would it be worth it or is it custom per individual so play around with your own doses?

    Looking for something "light" and won't bloat me up
    NPP at 100mg per week sounds great about now
    Tren Ace at 150-250mg per week sounds like something I want to try

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    Tren works amazing even in smaller doses, I've ran it 225 mg per week with TRT dose test and 250 mg masteron , it still did wonders for me..
    Can't speak for NPP though.

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    I can tell you low doses can definitely work. Many of the older big guys just cruise on testosterone ~250mg/wk to maintain their mass and strength.
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    Its not so much the weekly dose, but the entire amount of mg used. For example, 500/week for 16 weeks would probably yeild similar results as 1000/week for 8 weeks. However the shorter more aggressive cycle will be more efficient and less time shut down, and shorter clean out time for new compounds. Just my point of view.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The God Himself View Post
    Tren works amazing even in smaller doses, I've ran it 225 mg per week with TRT dose test and 250 mg masteron , it still did wonders for me..
    Can't speak for NPP though.
    How long did you run the tren for at that dose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by powerliftmike View Post
    I can tell you low doses can definitely work. Many of the older big guys just cruise on testosterone ~250mg/wk to maintain their mass and strength.
    Yea I see they might be able to for 12+ weeks if they're dosed right?
    I saw some results of tren ace on someone after three months and tbh the results on a tren/test cycle is pretty amazing for just three months??

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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    If you ran something like NPP or tren a for 12 weeks at 100mg-250mg per week would it be worth it or is it custom per individual so play around with your own doses?

    Looking for something "light" and won't bloat me up
    NPP at 100mg per week sounds great about now
    Tren Ace at 150-250mg per week sounds like something I want to try
    Well, I think if a person is sensitive to androgenic compounds as such especially the stronger ones it's possible to get all the benefits even at quite low doses. Although side effects could still also be common.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    If you ran something like NPP or tren a for 12 weeks at 100mg-250mg per week would it be worth it or is it custom per individual so play around with your own doses?

    Looking for something "light" and won't bloat me up
    NPP at 100mg per week sounds great about now
    Tren Ace at 150-250mg per week sounds like something I want to try
    My early years were small dosages (250mg SUST or TEST C-E per week) and I made significant gains.
    My genetics aren't superior either and I have always made gains on low dosage cycles.

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    1 shot of whisky will do what 1 shot of whisky does .
    10 shots of whisky will do what 10 shots of whisky does .

    its really that simple. even with AAS. if you want one shot of whisky effects (a slight calming effect but thats about it) then take the one shot, if you want 10 shot of whisky effects (getting blasted drunk) then take the 10 shots.

    is 1 shot of whisky worth it ? well sure when the context and situation calls for being reserved (perhaps you have to drive home). but at other times you just may want to do the 10 shots.

    really depends on what your after for the current situation.

    despite what is popular for guys to say , more actually does do more. period. 800mg does more then 400mg. but that does not mean 800mg is the answer for you.. but its stupid to pretend, like guys do, that low dosages are somehow 'noble' and that higher dosages don't work better then lower ones . thats just bullshit and not how drugs even work
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-18-2019 at 07:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    If you ran something like NPP or tren a for 12 weeks at 100mg-250mg per week would it be worth it or is it custom per individual so play around with your own doses?

    Looking for something "light" and won't bloat me up
    NPP at 100mg per week sounds great about now
    Tren Ace at 150-250mg per week sounds like something I want to try
    NPP 100mg a week ?

    It's a short ester bro so you should be pinning 100mg ed or eod .

    100mg a week won't do shit .

    It's like expected gains from 25mg test E once a week lol .

    Just my 2 cents

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    damn, guess im not there yet and need to do more reading/paying attention \
    100mg per week is light maybe too light, 100mg x3 times a week would do it than

    damn, back to the drawing board
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    damn, guess im not there yet and need to do more reading/paying attention \
    100mg per week is light maybe too light, 100mg x3 times a week would do it than

    damn, back to the drawing board
    are you on TRT ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    are you on TRT ?
    yea, i am on TRT only so far haven't ran anything other than test e or cyp
    Weekly is 150 split into 2 injections
    A few months ago i stepped it up to 350mg just to see how i would take it and it didn't go wrong. I actually felt much better on that higher dose but i did split it into 3 injections per week mon, wed, fri

    I've read around and plenty of people say 500mg test e for 10-12 weeks is one of the best first cycles you can run but i haven't gone that far with it yet so idk
    i remember reading npp was short ester etc.. but i didn't put it all down on paper/or retained it all in my head
    just been reading around on cycles of various gear, i really did think 100mg npp would work

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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    yea, i am on TRT only so far haven't ran anything other than test e or cyp
    Weekly is 150 split into 2 injections
    A few months ago i stepped it up to 350mg just to see how i would take it and it didn't go wrong. I actually felt much better on that higher dose but i did split it into 3 injections per week mon, wed, fri

    I've read around and plenty of people say 500mg test e for 10-12 weeks is one of the best first cycles you can run but i haven't gone that far with it yet so idk
    i remember reading npp was short ester etc.. but i didn't put it all down on paper/or retained it all in my head
    just been reading around on cycles of various gear, i really did think 100mg npp would work
    ok. so here is what I would recommend in context of your desire to want to run low dosages but still get good results.

    simply run things that optimize your current TRT protocol .
    add in
    30-50 mg of VAR per day (this will lower SHBG, free up more test from your TRT, provide purely anabolic effects, etc.)
    20mg of LGD (this will work on the AR as primarily a muscle builder and nothing more)
    15-20mg of Tren per day (this will provide way higher levels of androgenic effect and sync with the estrogen your converting from your trt)

    ^ you'll get similar muscle building effects to running 600mg of test per week . but with much much less negatives . you'll likely feel like your just on TRT, but consistently the drugs are working in the background

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    Why so low tren ? I'm guessing total of 140-150mg tren ace per week with daily pins? For how long, thats a bit too much to pin everyday
    How long would you run the 50mg var?
    I would need to schedule this when im running it for 8-10 weeks and than switch to something else or stop the var completely?

    I want to keep the gear lower doses to prevent hair loss

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    if you went with 50mg of Var , you could run that whole cycle for 8 weeks or more.. if you went with say 30mg of var with the 20mg of LGD and 15mg of tren per day , you could run that 12+ weeks as an addition to your tRT and only come off when needed (if blood work dictates).

    YES that low a dosage of Tren , when properly stacked, will yield very good results when taken daily and for a long enough period.
    simply back load a bunch of insulin syringes and you'll have an easy fast injection to do daily (super easy to pin that low a dose with insulin syringe)

    yes you can switch to other compounds when done with this cycle, and you likely wouldn't even need a break.. just keep rotating compounds with your TRT. the main goal is to use compounds that work synergestically together and with your TRT though
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    just an fyi - Tren ace is one of the few compounds you can low daily dose like that (15mg) and it be beneficial to your cycle . thats because of its super strong androgenic effects. you can't do that with other compounds like NPP or EQ or Mast.

    I've got a client right now (member of this forum) who is on just 20mg of Tren per day and getting great strength gains.. he's on a cut. I wanted him to get some more androgenic effects, but I did NOT want to up his testosterone dosage to do this . so simply adding in a very very small dosage of Tren accomplished this.
    remember, 100mg of tren is = to 500mg of Test in regards to androgenic effects

    a cycle of 200mg of tren with 300mg of test is = to 1300mg of test in regards to androgenic effect
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-18-2019 at 08:28 PM.

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    Ok, how about this when I'm ready
    Up the test up to 300 or even 250mg per week (i want to keep it low for multiple reasons)
    Week 1-12
    Test E 250-300 per week three pins a week mon-wed-fri
    Week 1-8
    Anavar 50mg per week. 25mg mon 25mg thur
    Week 1-12 Tren ace 140mg per week using your method of 20mg per day?

    AI
    .25 dex twice a week. I currently only use .50 at it keeps my e2 around 20-22 (any blood work i have done shows that reading)
    HCG
    Currently will stick with same dose
    250iu x2 week

    I do have nolva/clomid but i dont use it
    Another question what about adding in provirion? I have not done the research yet but have heard good things about testosterone and proviron benefits
    Caber if i need it..

    not sure what LGD is but if its a sarm i dont need it

    I'm also already using NAC and some organ/liver supplement so im good on that side
    Last blood work did show a little bit (very small) elevated ALT/AST but im not concerned
    Heavy gym sessions/food/sleep etc.. i think may ave an affect on ALT/AST anyway
    Last edited by EDCG19; 01-18-2019 at 08:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    just an fyi - Tren ace is one of the few compounds you can low daily dose like that (15mg) and it be beneficial to your cycle . thats because of its super strong androgenic effects. you can't do that with other compounds like NPP or EQ or Mast.

    Low dose Tren has even been studied as a form of TRT. No shit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    Anavar 50mg per week. 25mg mon 25mg thur

    Another question what about adding in provirion? I have not done the research yet but have heard good things about testosterone and proviron benefits
    Anavar is an oral that your going to want to run daily, 25-50mg per DAY

    with Anavar in there , proviron would not really be needed. Var does all that proviron does to some degree, but is very very anabolic . Provorin is merely a light androgen with no anabolic properties.. however having said that, proviron is a fine addition to TRT just to help free up more Test from SHBG (var will do the same thing yet has additional muscle building qualities)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    Anavar is an oral that your going to want to run daily, 25-50mg per DAY

    with Anavar in there , proviron would not really be needed. Var does all that proviron does to some degree, but is very very anabolic. Provorin is merely a light androgen with no anabolic properties.. however having said that, proviron is a fine addition to TRT just to help free up more Test from SHBG (var will do the same thing yet has additional muscle building qualities)

    I know its an oral damn, i forgot you run anavar daily
    shit

    thats right.. daily var 25mg per day which really wouldn't do much would it since women run 20-25per day but men need something like 40-60 per day

    shit, i swear i knew var is ran daily at over 60mg per day depending on the individual, shit my mind is all over the place tonight
    Last edited by EDCG19; 01-18-2019 at 08:47 PM.

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    LGD is a sarm . I'm not a huge fan of sarms and prefer to lean towards traditional AAS .. however, LGD is the one sarm that has impressed me and I've used several times myself and have several clients using it (male and female). the results are there, and no side effects. the only reason I even bring it up in this thread is your desire for low dosages indicates a desire for low side effects , and LGD is the one compound I've seen added to TRT or to a female that illicits gains with no sides

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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    daily var 25mg per day which really wouldn't do much would it since women run 20-25per day but men need something like 40-60 per day
    your forgetting about the SYNERGY factor . sure 30mg of Var per day is not a lot as a stand alone cycle for a man .. but 30mg of Var per day with 200mg of test, then Tren , then LGD all stacked together for 12 weeks is a more powerful combo then 40-60mg of Var a day as a stand alone

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    Back to the drawing board i guess
    Time to start reading again I'm not there yet

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    I will never ever run high dose aas again, only way i might up the doses would be if i was crazy enough to do a show....high doses in anything are not good plain and simple i feel much better on low doses and my gains are pretty much the same as well ive ran 1200mg of ugl test before and im no bigger then than i am now on 180-200mg pharma

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    I've been doing this long enough that I know my diet & training formulas 100% for cutting/maintaining/bulking. Low dose AAS is icing on the cake, meaning once diet and training are optimized then just low doses of AAS will grow significantly more muscle. I'm on TRT and just going from 100mg of test per week to 200mg I can put muscle on more easily (assuming I'm not taking a break on my diet eating pizza every day).

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    Unfortunately high doses don't work that well for the most of us - Including myself



    My body just does do well with high doses anymore at all



    Yet, low doses are still working just fine & cost way less


    My size, strength or Bf% really has not fluctuated since the dropping of my doses + I feel better & get almost no sides when I get m sauce dialed in


    Next cycle will prob b, 500 150 300 (test, trenA, MastP) + daily Var(I still haven't worked the Var doses out yet)

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    Quote Originally Posted by < <Samson> > View Post
    Unfortunately high doses don't work that well for the most of us - Including myself



    My body just does do well with high doses anymore at all



    Yet, low doses are still working just fine & cost way less


    My size, strength or Bf% really has not fluctuated since the dropping of my doses + I feel better & get almost no sides when I get m sauce dialed in


    Next cycle will prob b, 500 150 300 (test, trenA, MastP) + daily Var(I still haven't worked the Var doses out yet)
    Ok, that's kind of the thing though why are most of you guys saying high doses dont work as well when probably most of you are running a gram of test or higher doses because the gains are better.

    I'll take that into account that higher isn't better and perhaps starting something lighter to see where i stand is better than just throwing in 500mg test and 300 tren ace. Frankly, i still dont really now what im doing so idk will have to see and wait

    I'm still leaning towards running NPP or deca though, those compounds sound like something i want to run this year, still not sure on tren because the sides are something i probably couldn't deal with tbh

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    Quote Originally Posted by JdFlex View Post
    I've been doing this long enough that I know my diet & training formulas 100% for cutting/maintaining/bulking. Low dose AAS is icing on the cake, meaning once diet and training are optimized then just low doses of AAS will grow significantly more muscle. I'm on TRT and just going from 100mg of test per week to 200mg I can put muscle on more easily (assuming I'm not taking a break on my diet eating pizza every day).
    My training is fine for now, my diet I'll be honest it is spot on but not 100% of the week, I'll have to cave in sometime around fridays or saturdays to get my cravings met

    I have another question here though, the thing im not really 100% knowledgeable on right now is how long to run something and whats a good starting dose for various compounds, i would think there should be a guide somewhere that says run tren ace for 12 weeks at 150-300mg per week etc...

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    You can run whatever you want(I did), but it's mostly without benefit



    Now - This Tren for TRT talk sounds quite promising
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    It seems intuitive that multiple compounds + a test base + low doses would combine to provide the greatest synergy and least sides?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    It seems intuitive that multiple compounds + a test base + low doses would combine to provide the greatest synergy and least sides?
    ^ this .. often times someone may see an AAS protocol I do and think "man your throwing everything but the kitchen sink in the mix" . but theres generally a good reason for running a host of different compounds at lower/moderate dosages.

    combining class 1 steroids with class 2 steroids
    combining androgenic steroids with estrogenic steroids with anabolic steroids
    combining DHTs, with test derivatives, with progestin derivatives
    etc..

    can illicit lots of synergy and better effects then simply running one compound at high dose
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    ^ this .. often times someone may see an AAS protocol I do and think "man your throwing everything but the kitchen sink in the mix" . but theres generally a good reason for running a host of different compounds at lower/moderate dosages.

    combining class 1 steroids with class 2 steroids
    combining androgenic steroids with estrogenic steroids with anabolic steroids
    combining DHTs, with test derivatives, with progestin derivatives
    etc..

    can illicit lots of synergy and better effects then simply running one compound at high dose
    I guess this is where the HW or knowledge really comes into play. There's just so many biochemical aspects to consider, even if one did have access to whatever they wanted. There really is an art to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    I guess this is where the HW or knowledge really comes into play. There's just so many biochemical aspects to consider, even if one did have access to whatever they wanted. There really is an art to it.
    I like to think of all the different AAS compounds out there as "micro chips" that all each have their own unique sets of information. we then upload that information by using that compound (information is transcribed to the cells). by picking and choosing multiple different "micro chips" to upload information that can work together (or provide the 'just right' information needed for your current goal).

    simply having lots of the SAME information from one "micro chip" , is not nearly as effective as rotating in multiple "micro chips" and constantly getting updating and new information

    but yeah, picking what "micro chip" to upload and use for what purprose and goal takes lots of trial and error and experience, as well as understanding the type of information said 'micro chip' may contain in the first place.


    perhaps a silly example . but just one way I think about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I like to think of all the different AAS compounds out there as "micro chips" that all each have their own unique sets of information. we then upload that information by using that compound (information is transcribed to the cells). by picking and choosing multiple different "micro chips" to upload information that can work together (or provide the 'just right' information needed for your current goal).

    simply having lots of the SAME information from one "micro chip" , is not nearly as effective as rotating in multiple "micro chips" and constantly getting updating and new information

    but yeah, picking what "micro chip" to upload and use for what purprose and goal takes lots of trial and error and experience, as well as understanding the type of information said 'micro chip' may contain in the first place.


    perhaps a silly example . but just one way I think about it
    Not silly. Makes perfect sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Octaneforce View Post
    Its not so much the weekly dose, but the entire amount of mg used. For example, 500/week for 16 weeks would probably yeild similar results as 1000/week for 8 weeks. However the shorter more aggressive cycle will be more efficient and less time shut down, and shorter clean out time for new compounds. Just my point of view.
    I've never heard this but it's an interesting view point. I wonder if we can find some data to back this..?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EDCG19 View Post
    If you ran something like NPP or tren a for 12 weeks at 100mg-250mg per week would it be worth it or is it custom per individual so play around with your own doses?

    Looking for something "light" and won't bloat me up
    NPP at 100mg per week sounds great about now
    Tren Ace at 150-250mg per week sounds like something I want to try
    I actually PREFER tren at lower doses as you still get all the benefits with much milder side effects, and once you've run it a few times you'll be able to run at a low dose with virtually no sides at all...The first couple times one runs tren they ARE going to feel some sides, even at low doses..

    As a matter of fact, I believe all 19nors should be run at low doses because they're highly suppressive and cause a host of side effects. Also, I've noticed that there is def a point of diminishing returns with 19nors more is not better by any means.

    The idea IMO is to use different steroids in different dosages TOGETHER to create an optimal environment to build muscle using the synergistic properties of combining certain compounds..

    I like running test and EQ at a gram as GH has suggested (it's the way to go IMO) while adding and rotating in other compounds. The only drugs I stay on are test and eq, although every few months I'll drop the eq altogether and drop my test down to one shot a week for about 6 weeks to let my receptors upregulate a bit...
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    I've never heard this but it's an interesting view point. I wonder if we can find some data to back this..?
    I've written about this a lot in my log , as well as several other places here. I'll see if I can search and post a few links
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlphaMindz View Post
    I actually PREFER tren at lower doses as you still get all the benefits with much milder side effects,

    As a matter of fact, I believe all 19nors should be run at low doses

    The idea IMO is to use different steroids in different dosages TOGETHER to create an optimal environment to build muscle using the synergistic properties of combining certain compounds..
    despite what you often hear online , I really like the idea of stacking 19 nors together at lower dosages (I've done this a lot myself and have several clients on similar protocols currently).

    the idea is that instead of running say 800mg of deca . or 600mg of tren by themselves. you do say 300mg of Tren combined with 300mg of NPP for a 'combined' 600mg.
    most the 19 nors out there are very very different compounds and complement each other very well.

    eg. one of the best 19 nor combos for growth. Tren and Ment.
    they are both 19 nor, but still are very much opposites. Tren is an androgenic , ment is an anabolic , Tren is dry and non estrogenic, ment is wet and very very estrogenic. they are exact opposites even though they are both same 19 nors.

    or again with Tren and NPP. Tren is the androgenic whereas NPP is your Anabolic. you can add more anabolic load to your Tren cycle by simply adding in NPP rather then upping your dosage of the Tren and getting more androgenic side effects.

    19 nors stacked together can all compliment each other very well , DESPITE the steroid forum urban legend that 19 nors shouldn't be stacked together

    I'll go so far as to stack two 19 nors together in a cycle and consider their combination as a single compound.
    -Tren and NPP stacked together is my ONE 19 nor compound in the cycle
    -then add in say Mast as my DHT and added androgen
    -then add in Primo as my Anabolic

    I consider that a 3 compound stack (even though on paper its 4 compounds)
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 01-22-2019 at 11:16 AM.
    KrossOut and Rjr1983 like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    despite what you often hear online , I really like the idea of stacking 19 nors together at lower dosages (I've done this a lot myself and have several clients on similar protocols currently).

    the idea is that instead of running say 800mg of deca . or 600mg of tren by themselves. you do say 300mg of Tren combined with 300mg of NPP for a 'combined' 600mg.
    most the 19 nors out there are very very different compounds and complement each other very well.

    eg. one of the best 19 nor combos for growth. Tren and Ment.
    they are both 19 nor, but still are very much opposites. Tren is an androgenic , ment is an anabolic , Tren is dry and non estrogenic, ment is wet and very very estrogenic. they are exact opposites even though they are both same 19 nors.

    or again with Tren and NPP. Tren is the androgenic whereas NPP is your Anabolic. you can add more anabolic load to your Tren cycle by simply adding in NPP rather then upping your dosage of the Tren and getting more androgenic side effects.

    19 nors stacked together can all compliment each other very well , DESPITE the steroid forum urban legend that 19 nors shouldn't be stacked together

    I'll go so far as to stack two 19 nors together in a cycle and consider their combination as a single compound.
    -Tren and NPP stacked together is my ONE 19 nor compound in the cycle
    -then add in say Mast as my DHT and added androgen
    -then add in Primo as my Anabolic

    I consider that a 3 compound stack (even though on paper its 4 compounds)
    Interesting ideas GH you're pretty damn creative with how you approach steroid use . Of course certain approaches will work better for certain people.

    For example, I wouldn't run Ment until I've had my glands removed cause I feel like I'd do a shot and wake up with bigger tits than my girl lmao. I guess a high dose of nolva would keep me safe from gyno but the amount I'd have to take to completely block those receptors would surely have a notable impact on IGF-1 production and likely hinder gains...

    That cycle would be a monster bro! NPP,Tren, Mast, and Primo stacked on top of trt test?

    I see the logic you're operating with, though, by manipulating androgens vs. anabolics within the same category of steroid. Interesting man, something to look into!
    KrossOut and GearHeaded like this.

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