cycle length thoughts

**jm21** · 02-09-2019, 09:32 AM

Hello,

I have been on here and gotten some advice on cycle doses for Athletic performance.

The cycle i am going to use is

weeks 1-14 Deca @ 200-300mg / week
weeks 1-16 test prop 200-330mg per week
weeks 10-16 Winny 50mg/day (injectable)
weeks 16/20 clomid 150/100/50/50

i will also have nolva and amridex on hand if i have any issues with sides however was going to run the armidex to help prevent bloating which i have had in the past.

Current stats are 195lbs 11-12% body fat and have used 3 cycles in the past mainly for bulking, However i have been unable to train properly in the last 24 weeks due to injury and hvent done a cycle in 2-1/2 years.

My goals for this cycle are to maxamize the results of a 16 week strength and conditioning cycle.

My question is again to check on these potential doses and if 16 weeks is an okay time to run it? -
i am worried about running it longer and being shut down for this length of time, i originally wanted to run it for 24 weeks. But feel its too long and i would have burnt out by then withiut the inclusion on HGH which i cannot afford right now.

**Windex** · 02-09-2019, 11:46 AM

If youare concerned about recovery then you shouldn't be anywhere near Deca and should stick to a simple 8 week cycle with short/no ester compounds. In and out quick.

Clomid is also not sufficient for PCT, Tamoxifen is required as well.

What type of athletic performance? Winny is notorious for drying out joints. Anavar more than likely a better choice.

**AlphaMindz** · 02-09-2019, 12:12 PM

I think that's actually a great cycle for enhancing athletic performance and should yield you some good results assuming you train, eat, and recover properly. Nandrolone does cause a lot of shut down as Windex mentioned so that is a potential risk although IMO you're not running a high dose and you're not running it for an excessive period of time so you should be fine as long you do a thorough pct. (I'm of the opinion that any time anyone injects exogenous hormones they need to assume the risk of permanent pituitary shut down and may have to rely on trt)

**jm21** · 02-09-2019, 12:19 PM

Thank you,

MY goals are to improve strength and power output, however i do need to do 3 x conditioning sessions a week

I actually have Tamoxifen sorry i ddint put it in but was going to do 4 weeks 40/40/20/20 along side the clomid

My original idea was to only run test prop only for 10 weeks on the come off and back on again, it was someone else who suggested the deca to help with the recovery between workouts.

I have used test prop and tren acetate in the past for this type of training but again i orgininal ly wanted to keep it simple one compound.

**Windex** · 02-09-2019, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by jm21

Thank you,

MY goals are to improve strength and power output, however i do need to do 3 x conditioning sessions a week

I actually have Tamoxifen sorry i ddint put it in but was going to do 4 weeks 40/40/20/20 along side the clomid

My original idea was to only run test prop only for 10 weeks on the come off and back on again, it was someone else who suggested the deca to help with the recovery between workouts.

I have used test prop and tren acetate in the past for this type of training but again i orgininal ly wanted to keep it simple one compound.

When do you plan to cycle? Given you haven't been training for the last 24 weeks (6month) + haven't done cycles in years jumping into a cycle and restarting the gym at the same time is asking to get injured versus waiting a bit and rebuilding your strength base. this is more with your tendons, ligaments, and stabilizing muscles, not the big muscle groups.

What level of Athletics is this ? Are you going to be tested ? Deca is detectable for up to a year.

**Test Monsterone** · 02-09-2019, 05:51 PM

If you don't plan on staying on forever, I suggest you don't cycle anything. However, if you want to take your HPTA for a trip, I suggest what Windex is saying. The longer you stay on, the harder it will be to bounce back to normal levels (if you even get back to normal levels). And the short ester is so the steroids kick in quickly, and leave quickly when you do PCT.

**jm21** · 02-10-2019, 07:43 AM

Ive been giving this a good bit of thought and it seems to be the best option with the lowest risks. I mean obv there are risks but ill be avoiding the thing i am mostly concerned about and that is the time to recover after the cycle.

what i might do is run Test prop for 8 weeks into 4 weeks pct (Same as above) then back on again 4 weeks later. I may add in Winny for weeks 2-8 to help with speed and power as i havent experienced dry joints in the past with this.

**jm21** · 02-10-2019, 07:46 AM

Thanks for this,

i have been building back up over the last 8 weeks - the only things ive missed out are explosive movements whilst working on building up the strength in a groin tear.

I wont get tested, Im not to proud to admit im doing this to catch back up with the rest of the guys i will be up against (who also use). Before i got injured i was there abouts with them while they were using and i was clean. So want to see what happens when i level the playing field.

**Chrisp83TRT** · 02-10-2019, 08:22 AM

Test prop with deca ? Don't get it

Why not test prop and NPP ?
Or test Enanthate and deca ?

Whinny isn't going to be good for this goal as it will dry you out . And deca will wet you up.

I'm just confused about your cycle and goal .

Think you research more before jumping on this . ESP if you are going to do pct.

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**jm21** · 02-10-2019, 09:06 AM

hello mate,

the training goal was to increase strength and power, the cycle to was to maxamize this and the recovery between sessions.

i chose tesp prop as test enanthate in the past lead to bad pain in the injection sites for me versus prop.

What doyou mean ESP if i use pct wouldnt this be a requirement regardless of the cycle?

**Windex** · 02-10-2019, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by jm21

hello mate,

the training goal was to increase strength and power, the cycle to was to maxamize this and the recovery between sessions.

i chose tesp prop as test enanthate in the past lead to bad pain in the injection sites for me versus prop.

What doyou mean ESP if i use pct wouldnt this be a requirement regardless of the cycle?

Doing 4 weeks of PCT only to just immediately cycle again doesn't really make much sense. You aren't giving your body any time to recover. The rule of thumb is time on + PCT = time off. So an 8 week cycle + 4 weeks of PCT = 12 weeks off before cycling again. Bloodwork is key here.

Cycling then PCT then cycling again is worse than just being on.

Do you mean you are only using gear because other people in the gym use gear? I don't follow that logic. Do you copy their diet and training ?
What if they jump off a bridge ?

**jm21** · 02-10-2019, 09:30 AM

No man i am not doing it because they are,

I am doing it because i want to be at the level i used to be, and thats behind them due ti them using so if i want to keep competting i must step up what i do.

Like wise if you want to do a ciurse to bulk up or compete in body building you aint going ti get anywhere unless you are willing to do what the compeititon is doing.

Most people take gear just because they want to be bigger im doing it because i want to do better in competing whats the difference there

**jm21** · 02-10-2019, 09:36 AM

This is all good feedback guys and im glad i asked before i rush into something,

I appreciate your time on this...

You must understand tho that your goal may be to get big and gain as much size or be as lean as possible.

Mine is simply to get the most out of a S&C Program

**XnavyHMCS** · 02-10-2019, 10:01 AM

I have a few questions here about my own cycle:

Made my own post.

PS: I do not intend to hijack this thread, so my regards to the OP...

**Chrisp83TRT** · 02-10-2019, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by jm21

hello mate,

the training goal was to increase strength and power, the cycle to was to maxamize this and the recovery between sessions.

i chose tesp prop as test enanthate in the past lead to bad pain in the injection sites for me versus prop.

What doyou mean ESP if i use pct wouldnt this be a requirement regardless of the cycle?

If you are getting pip from test Enanthate switch to cyp .
And bro the name of the game is needles , pain is going to happen weather you like it or not haha.
Your pct isn't a good pct
Clomid alone isn't going to do much.
You are going to want to run nolvadex as well and maybe some proviron .
You mine as well just blast and cruise at this point ESP if you are always concerned with competing with others with strength etc...
Like I said , research all these things before doing it. Each compound plays a part as to why it does what it does and when to take it or not. All depends on your goal.

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**Chrisp83TRT** · 02-10-2019, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by XnavyHMCS

I have a few questions here about my own cycle:

Background: 54 yo, been on numerous cycles, the first being when I was 18 yo, after that with military deployments to S. America and Asia, I had the opportunity to purchase gear (this was way before the internet) and justly exploited this option. During most of my GWOT time I was clean. Now into a well-deserved retirement, I am back in the game for the last several years.

Currently: I am a low dose user, as I am not interested in getting too big or competing; I am just a "recreational" user and abuser! My last cycle lasted 4 mos, and consisted of 250mg of Test. E mixed with 100mg Deca , and I was taking one injection every 6 days, along with 10 mg (only one tablet, sometimes two) of Dbol per day.

Question/s: I would like to jump next to Sustenon for a few months, and then take a month off, before hitting a cycle of Tren E. during the summer months (the Tren is great, as long as my L shoulder holds out and my temper remains under control...). Does this sound like a viable switch / cycle? How much HCG should I be using during / in between? I have never, aside from some tenderness in my L nipple, had any issues with gyno, so I am not taking anything for that. WTF??? *The more I read on here, the less I realize that I know or ever knew and the more I look back on money wasted; but I had a great time none the less...

***Being 54 yo, I am not at all concerned about procreation, but I am a bit concerned (when I take the rare moment to think about it) my health. I guess I should get some blood work done; for once... You young guys must understand that I am an anachronism, coming from the time when the only "reputable" source out there was the Underground Steroid Handbook... This was a long time ago... My best underground source/s were either at the local gym, and my brother (my idol and a decent bodybuilder for his level) and I met Larry Pacifico in the pool in Scottsdale, Arizona in 1983 where I was competing in the Teenage National Powerlifting Championships, and he hooked my brother up with a mail-order list, and being the future commando that I was, I swiped the list and made an order or two with friends... The good ol'days...

Conclusion: Thanks for listening and responding with input. I have had PM contact with one member on here and their advice was golden, so I am anticipating something similar. I am currently residing in S.E. Poland (it is a long story, like my magnificent adventurous life, sorry to beat my chest) and it is a bit difficult to find reliable sources of info here, reliable sources of great gear are plentiful, though...

PS: I do not intend to hijack this thread, so my regards to the OP...

Why did you hi jack this thread while having made your own ?

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**XnavyHMCS** · 02-10-2019, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT

Why did you hi jack this thread while having made your own ?

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Sorry bro/bros, I made this post on his thread, then I made my own thread. I meant no disrespect, my brothers! I will try to delete my post (I think you can do that here, but I am far from the most internet savy individual).

**XnavyHMCS** · 02-10-2019, 01:08 PM

WOW!!!

If I keep making mistakes I will eventually increase my post count... Works wonders.

**jm21** · 02-10-2019, 01:24 PM

What would you think about adding just test prop on 8 weeks cycle, do pct as you suggested come of for the length of time been on athen reapeat over the next year. To give me that edge i need but not shut myself down with the Deca . And keep the cycles relatively light say 300-400mg/week of test ?

**Chrisp83TRT** · 02-10-2019, 03:30 PM

Originally Posted by jm21

What would you think about adding just test prop on 8 weeks cycle, do pct as you suggested come of for the length of time been on athen reapeat over the next year. To give me that edge i need but not shut myself down with the Deca. And keep the cycles relatively light say 300-400mg/week of test ?

Why would you use deca bro ?
Use NPP if you're using test prop and why would you use test prop , why not use.test cyp. It's less.pins a week

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**kelkel** · 02-10-2019, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by XnavyHMCS

Sorry bro/bros, I made this post on his thread, then I made my own thread. I meant no disrespect, my brothers! I will try to delete my post (I think you can do that here, but I am far from the most internet savy individual).

No worries Xnavy.

**Quester** · 02-10-2019, 06:01 PM

jm,
Tell me if I'm getting this right.
You've been here since 2008?
Then, You said you were 24 but, you said 23 in the same month?
You said, in 2008, you are a personal trainer, you put beginner for training and then said in another thread (you started) in 2008 that you have 3-4 years of training?
You used to ask the same questions within days of each other?
Following your threads, you have multiple cutting and multiple bulking cycles? You have asked about PCT, in 2011, roughly your fourth cycle at that time, many times and posted your PCT to your other cycle questions before?
Every single post you have made is to threads you have started?
Some threads you start you never respond to and the only other response pattern (from you) shows multiple responses and bumps?
You never post to any other area other than "questions and answers?"
You always spend months between posts yet ask the same questions and have the same patterns?

**Chrisp83TRT** · 02-10-2019, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Quester

jm,
Tell me if I'm getting this right.
You've been here since 2008?
Then, You said you were 24 but, you said 23 in the same month?
You said, in 2008, you are a personal trainer, you put beginner for training and then said in another thread (you started) in 2008 that you have 3-4 years of training?
You used to ask the same questions within days of each other?
Following your threads, you have multiple cutting and multiple bulking cycles? You have asked about PCT, in 2011, roughly your fourth cycle at that time, many times and posted your PCT to your other cycle questions before?
Every single post you have made is to threads you have started?
Some threads you start you never respond to and the only other response pattern (from you) shows multiple responses and bumps?
You never post to any other area other than "questions and answers?"
You always spend months between posts yet ask the same questions and have the same patterns?

Damn you have a good eye for this stuff ( no sarcasm )

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**GearHeaded** · 02-10-2019, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT

Whinny isn't going to be good for this goal as it will dry you out . And deca will wet you up.

Running Deca /Npp with Winstrol is a good combo (depending on goals and purpose of course). The reason that Winstrol can cause joint pains (despite the "dryness") is that it blunts cortisol , and cortisol is your bodies natural anti-inflammatory (but its also catabolic and protein wasting). So with low cortisol levels your joints are going to hurt. Deca on the other hand will provide additional synovial fluid retention in the joints and acts as a mild anti inflammatory as well , yet its anabolic . so adding some deca/npp with Winstrol can be helpful for some people that suffer these joint issues.

Winstorl and Deca also work well together in that both are 'pure' anaboilcs with little androgenic effects. so you can run them together in a anabolic phase and the Winstol again will block cortisol (working as an anti catabolic) as well will lower SHBG and provide your body with more available free testosterone and DHT , which is very beneficial for limiting 'deca dick'.

Winstrol and Deca/Npp work great in an anabolic phase for cutting especially , as their properties are very conducive for muscle retention .

just something to think about

**Chrisp83TRT** · 02-11-2019, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

Running Deca /Npp with Winstrol is a good combo (depending on goals and purpose of course). The reason that Winstrol can cause joint pains (despite the "dryness") is that it blunts cortisol , and cortisol is your bodies natural anti-inflammatory (but its also catabolic and protein wasting). So with low cortisol levels your joints are going to hurt. Deca on the other hand will provide additional synovial fluid retention in the joints and acts as a mild anti inflammatory as well , yet its anabolic . so adding some deca/npp with Winstrol can be helpful for some people that suffer these joint issues.

Winstorl and Deca also work well together in that both are 'pure' anaboilcs with little androgenic effects. so you can run them together in a anabolic phase and the Winstol again will block cortisol (working as an anti catabolic) as well will lower SHBG and provide your body with more available free testosterone and DHT , which is very beneficial for limiting 'deca dick'.

Winstrol and Deca/Npp work great in an anabolic phase for cutting especially , as their properties are very conducive for muscle retention .

just something to think about

I'm more curious why he is so against running test E or C and is set on prop .

The whinny deca thing I can't even argue that because you are a guru

But wouldn't it make sense to run NPP with prop and not deca ?

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**AlphaMindz** · 02-11-2019, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT

I'm more curious why he is so against running test E or C and is set on prop .

The whinny deca thing I can't even argue that because you are a guru

But wouldn't it make sense to run NPP with prop and not deca ?

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Apparently NPP doesn't have the same properties as deca in regards to lubricating joints/healing connective tissue. I can't speak directly on this as I haven't experienced it for myself but I've heard this so for that reason I left it alone. Otherwise you're right, keeping short esters together would make more sense!

**Quester** · 02-11-2019, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by AlphaMindz

Apparently NPP doesn't have the same properties as deca in regards to lubricating joints/healing connective tissue. I can't speak directly on this as I haven't experienced it for myself but I've heard this so for that reason I left it alone. Otherwise you're right, keeping short esters together would make more sense!

Alpha (or GH or anybody who knows),
I've been looking at NPP just for the lubricating/ joint healing properties. Does anyone have any studies or other info about NPP lacking this property that Deca has?

**jm21** · 02-12-2019, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT

I'm more curious why he is so against running test E or C and is set on prop .

The whinny deca thing I can't even argue that because you are a guru

But wouldn't it make sense to run NPP with prop and not deca ?

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When ever i have used anything other than Prop i have swealing at the injection site, when i use prop thi sdoes not happen thats why i choose it over enanthate or cyp for some reason i sweal up when using these.

**jm21** · 02-12-2019, 12:43 PM

Interestingly the suggested cycle on the steroid .com website for athletic performance is test/deca and winny and even comments on being able to use prop