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Thread: Anabolics vs Androgenics

  1. #1
    DeeCee112's Avatar
    DeeCee112 is offline Associate Member
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    Anabolics vs Androgenics

    So I've been doing some research and following along with some of you vets throwing down knowledge and I'm a little confused on this subject.

    Anabolic
    Coles notes definition is the prime muscle building state the body can be in promoting increased muscle building capacity and performance. Opposite state is catabolic which we all know negatively effects muscle building capacity

    Androgenic
    Alot of reference Ive found to androgen or androgenjc is male characteristics. In the steroid world this seems to always been immediately following by the words side effects because of the excessive effects, aggressiveness, hair growth, ect.

    So steroids have an anabolic and and androgenic rating. This seems straight forward except the numbers don't seem to actually relate to actual real world results unless I'm reading wrong.
    Anadrol has an anaboliic rating of 320 and androgenic 45.
    I've seen some of you guys label compounds as either androgenic or anabolic and refer to these ratios being in check when building cycles. My question is why would you want androgens to be high at all?

    Where does amatasing rates fit in here. With anabolics mostly I believe? Since we've learned estrogen is in itself beneficial to muscle building I'd this part of why high anabolic ratings are better for results.
    Androgens are traditionally the "dryer" compounds as well correct?

    What's confusing me is if you look at the numbers only and throw out what people have told you why would anyone ever run anything except low testosterone to support proper function and high ratio difference steroids like anadrol and anavar as these are over 3x more anabolic with less than half the androgenic rating of test. Yet we know that anavar is not great for mass. How can this be if it is highly anabolic? Is this where the estrogen link comes into play.

    Sorry for rambling! The research continues. I kind of suck at the internet are there any solid published books on steroids anyone can recommend?
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  2. #2
    Ephemeral is offline Junior Member
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    The high anabolic rating of orals is just one thing, their side effects like toxicity to the liver, messing up lipids etc limit the dose and the time they can be run. For beginners even a low dose test + orals can have some decent results, but for a serious user they're used as a secondary compound for things like synergy or for a specific goal like lowering SHBG or cortisol.

    "My question is why would you want androgens to be high at all?"

    Androgens have serious mass building properties too, but I'm not sure about the exact mechanisms behind that. It's a very complicated process. GearHeaded for example in his advanced protocols uses different phases like high androgenic , high anabolic, high estrogen, and each of those serve a purpose. That said, if you just a run a cycle now and then, you can have good results with just low dose test plus anabolics like deca , anavar , primo etc. and that's what I plan to do as well. But for best results you need every tool in the toolbox, at least that is my understanding.

  3. #3
    HoldMyBeer is online now Productive Member
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    Because the adrogenic effects are what make you feel like pornstar Superman.
    Anabolic is muscle building
    Those ratios on paper are often misleading though. Many work better or worse than it says on paper due to other mechanisms. For example, halo is rated at something like 5000, but it's doesn't actually build 50 times more muscle than test

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  4. #4
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    GearHeaded is online now Anabolic Member
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    AAS = anabolic androgenic steroids . What’s a steroid ? A derivative of cholesterol. You have both anabolic steroids and catabolic steroids. Anabolic steroids are derived from the hormone testosterone (which is made from cholesterol). Catabolic steroids are made from the hormone Cortisol (which is made from cholesterol). These cortisol steroids are generally known as your anti inflammatory drugs. Cortisol is an natural anti-inflammatory hormone in the body. However it’s the opposite of testosterone in that its catabolic not anabolic.. the reason these steroids are catabolic is because its parent hormone, cortisol, is catabolic in that it’s the hormone that promotes the up-regulation of ‘Gluconeogenesis’, where the liver converts amino acids (proteins) and turns them into glucose to be used for energy. This happens when muscle tissue is broken down and becomes amino acids in the blood stream. Ie, catabolic.

    Ok that’s just a bonus. Figured get that out of the way so we all know what we are all on these forums talking about.. AAS. The anabolic steroids. Not the catabolic steroids.

    Note: did you know that Anabolic steroids are given in medicine to people who have massive inflammatory problems and are on high dosages of corticoid steroids . this is to help them preserve muscle, because again these anti inflammatory steroids are catabolic. So anabolic steroids are given as well to counter the catabolism.

    Off to the good stuff now..

    AAS is both anabolic and androgenic steroids because the parent hormone, Testosterone has both androgenic and anabolic properties. It does both essentially equally.

    To clarify though.. Testosterone itself in medicine is NOT considered an anabolic steroid. An anabolic steroid by definition is a drug that has been ‘derived’ from testosterone. Test is simply considered a male androgen not an AAS.
    Something that is a derivative of can never be that from which it was derived. And vice versa.

    You can’t say Dbol is Testoerone. Because its not. Even though it was derived from.
    You can’t say Cholesterol is a steroid just because steroids are made from cholesterol.
    You can’t say Var is a “DHT”, just cause it was derived from DHT.
    They are all very different things.
    So again, Testosterone is NOT an Anabolic Steriod . Hoever AAS is derived from Test.


    Ok so now that that’s clear, next post lets go right into the main topic.
    Androgen vs Anabolic .. and I’ll also add in vs Estrogen as well (being estrogen is derived from Test as well)

  5. #5
    GearHeaded's Avatar
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    I’m going to try and not get to detailed here keep things simple

    Anabolics are the drugs that upregulate anabolic mechanisms of action, like protein synthesis and nitrogen retention. Essentially they bind to receptors and say “build proteins” and the upregulation of proteins begin. They are very simple really.

    Androgens are far more complex then Anabolics. These drugs/hormones do a whole host of different things (mainly because unlike anabolics they work directly on the brain and not just other tissues). Androgens don’t upregulate protein synthesis in muscle tissue at all (however they do indirectly help build muscle). The promote growth of other tissues though.. for example every fetus every developed starts out as a female. But if there are androgens present the androgens develop a penis. Androgens develop all other male characteristics as well. So they build tissue in a way, just not muscle tissue. Androgens bind to receptors in the brain as well and promote male attributes like aggression… too much to say about the brain chemisty stuff right now though.
    On to the good stuff. Androgens work with the body’s glucose metabolism. Androgens help the body store glycogen in muscle tissue, and along with that proteins (ie, amino acids) are able to enter into muscle cells (so that the anabolics can now build proteins) ---- see that there how the androgen and the anabolic are working together. Also along with that more nutrients and water can enter the muscle cell.

    This is why Androgens are important in your cycles. No they are no anabolic in themselves but they have lots of great benefits for muscle building indirectly. I would say that Androgens are more “cosmetic”.

    Ever wonder why you can take high dose of Tren ace for only two weeks and then look in the mirror and be like “wow, I’m looking good .. round and hard” . its because tren is so damn androgenic . It has an immediate cosmetic effect on the muscle (from the glucose metabolism stuff I mentioned above) . I can say this for sure, your not looking good in just 2 short weeks because Tren is Anabolic. Nope the Anabolic mechanism of action are a long slow tedious process that takes months. Building all new tissues is time consuming.

    Tren can transform you in two weeks with cosmetic effects (which can all go away in two weeks as well) because Tren is highly androgenic.
    Deca on the other hand it takes months to see results. But the results are well worth it because its generally all new muscle tissue you are seeing. Deca is an anabolic and has no real androgenic effects.

    Ask my clients why I often have them running both Tren and Deca together


    Heres another thing about androgens.. any bodybuilder I’m helping as he gets close to the show, about 6 weeks out, we run mainly androgens. The reason is to get the androgens effects and cosmetic effects. In a calorie deficit and only 6 weeks out we aren’t going to be building new muscle. We need the cosmetic effects… the glycogen retention, also androgens help dry you out, one way in which they do this is androgens are a counter balance to estrogens (which can promote water retention).. if your androgens are much higher then your estrogens you will dry out. Also the brain chemistry and nervous sytems. Androgens promote aggression. And when you tired and worn out but still need to train for your show, androgens help give you that extra edge in the gym. Then 2 weeks out from a show I’ll generally have a guy run Halotestin , the most androgenic AAS on earth. They will fill up with glycogen, get hard, grainy, dry, and have plenty of aggression.

    One thing to keep in mind at this point though, estrogen levels are down. I talked about brain chemistry. If your brain is androgen dominant and does not have a whole lot of estrogen to bind to the E receptors in the brain (to balance things out), then you might get a little whack. You might lose your sex drive and libido too (estrogen controls libido).
    Just a side note

    See how this all kinda works together

    So where do the anabolics come in to play here? Well they are there in the back ground still slowly but steadily upregulating protein building.. the reason you need this in place still is because you don’t want to lose muscle (calorie deficit). Anabolics just sit there and do their job quietly in the background.
    People will say primo is weak.. well its not weak, it’s a pure anabolic. Its ONLY job is to upregulate protein synthesis. You cannot ‘feel this’. It’s a slow steady process.. however other steroids you can feel because of the androgenic effect.

    Ok, another post to further clarify and bring in estrogen and some practical stacking information

  6. #6
    DeeCee112's Avatar
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    Just want to say thanks guys for the input and taking the time to respond, lots of good information. Very thankful I have you guys on this board as a source for knowledge and support! I have lots to add to keep the discussion going but Im flying out to Mexico so it will have to wait till I return!
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    Just want to say thanks guys for the input and taking the time to respond, lots of good information. Very thankful I have you guys on this board as a source for knowledge and support! I have lots to add to keep the discussion going but Im flying out to Mexico so it will have to wait till I return!
    Great topic! We’ve had a couple great topics the last few days. I liked HoldMybeers also the other day.

    Great responses as well. Where else do you get responses like this!!

  8. #8
    Littlearnie is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    Great topic! We’ve had a couple great topics the last few days. I liked HoldMybeers also the other day.

    Great responses as well. Where else do you get responses like this!!
    There’s not many members around but those who are left are very knowledgeable.
    This forum has quality over quantity for sure. There’s some serious fucktards on other forums lol..
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  9. #9
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    All I know is thank god I had an over-abundance of androgens when I was a fetus....
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  10. #10
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    it's important to think about potent androgens stimulating the CNS hard which will allow you to train much harder resulting in more "anabolic " effects.

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