Sustanon + Dbol or anadrol? (1st cyle)

**bluelife93** · 07-29-2019, 04:34 AM

Hey everyone!
After months of research, I decided to to start my first cycle soon, I'm aiming for the following cycle:

Week 1-12: sustanon 250mg (twice a week, monday and thursday, glute injection with a 25G needle)
Week 1-6: Dianabol or Anadrol ? 25mg everyday "preworkout" (I'm not sure which one to use yet, I have both in hand. Though, a lot of people advised me to go for anadrol because it's less "toxic" on liver)
Week 13-14: off
PCT:
Week 15-16: Nolvadex 40mg everyday + 250IU of HCG prengyl (1 or 2 times a week?)
Week 17: Nolvadex 20mg everyday + 250IU of HCG prengyl (1 or 2 times a week?)

In terms of AI, I have Arimidex , I know it depends on your body and the general recommendation is .5mg every other day, I'm not sure how susceptible to estrogen related sides I'll be, so I'll start with a low dose and increase if needed, I'll be taking .5mg twice per week. (Can you please recommend when?)

For HCG, I'm still not sure if I should be using it during cycle or use it only during PCT?

I'll be doing blood work pre (2 weeks prior) and post cycle. (6 weeks after).

a little background info:
I'm 25, 5'9, 180lbs, around 15-17% bf, been training for 2 years, I'll be bulking during this cycle.

Diet:
my TDEE is 3437cal, so i'm aiming for a 4000+ calories a day, 6 meals (40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat)

Supplements:
Isolate whey protein (2 shakes a day)
Casein (before bed)
Creatine: (5mg pre, 5mg post workout)
BCAA: intra workout
Multivitamins, akg, glutamine

I don't have extremely high expectations like putting 10lbs of pure muscle or more, but I'm really looking forward to see how my body will grow.

I'd like to hear your opinions and advices!
Thank you!

**Windex** · 07-29-2019, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by bluelife93

Hey everyone!
After months of research, I decided to to start my first cycle soon, I'm aiming for the following cycle:

Week 1-12: sustanon 250mg (twice a week, monday and thursday, glute injection with a 25G needle)
Week 1-6: Dianabol or Anadrol ? 25mg everyday "preworkout" (I'm not sure which one to use yet, I have both in hand. Though, a lot of people advised me to go for anadrol because it's less "toxic" on liver)
Week 13-14: off
PCT:
Week 15-16: Nolvadex 40mg everyday + 250IU of HCG prengyl (1 or 2 times a week?)
Week 17: Nolvadex 20mg everyday + 250IU of HCG prengyl (1 or 2 times a week?)

In terms of AI, I have Arimidex , I know it depends on your body and the general recommendation is .5mg every other day, I'm not sure how susceptible to estrogen related sides I'll be, so I'll start with a low dose and increase if needed, I'll be taking .5mg twice per week. (Can you please recommend when?)

For HCG, I'm still not sure if I should be using it during cycle or use it only during PCT?

I'll be doing blood work pre (2 weeks prior) and post cycle. (6 weeks after).

a little background info:
I'm 25, 5'9, 180lbs, around 15-17% bf, been training for 2 years, I'll be bulking during this cycle.

Diet:
my TDEE is 3437cal, so i'm aiming for a 4000+ calories a day, 6 meals (40% protein, 40% carbs, 20% fat)

Supplements:
Isolate whey protein (2 shakes a day)
Casein (before bed)
Creatine: (5mg pre, 5mg post workout)
BCAA: intra workout
Multivitamins, akg, glutamine

I don't have extremely high expectations like putting 10lbs of pure muscle or more, but I'm really looking forward to see how my body will grow.

I'd like to hear your opinions and advices!
Thank you!

- protein too high replace shakes with more carbs

- cut creatine in half, you don't need 10 grams

- AI to be used WHEN estrogen sides start, not before. Crashing estrogen means you will make almost zero gains

- Replace Sustanon with Test C or Test E unless you want to pin every other day.

- HCG in cycle not PCT

- dbol not anadrol

- Get Clomid for PCT

- Sustanon is bad for people who cycle and PCT because you have to wait 21 days from last injection before you can start PCT. This means longer recovery and longer time before you can cycle again.

I have seen very few people actually have 40/40/20 as the correct macro split. It's meant to be a baseline then adjust from there based on how you respond to food. AGood chance your diet can be improved upon before cycling

- Bloodwork is done 6-8 weeks after PCT NOT after your last injection

- 99% of multivitamins are garbage because they have the wrong version of each multivitamin.

**bluelife93** · 07-29-2019, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Windex

- protein too high replace shakes with more carbs

- cut creatine in half, you don't need 10 grams
Fair enough

- AI to be used WHEN estrogen sides start, not before. Crashing estrogen means you will make almost zero gains
I already have a little bit of gyno (naturally) so i'm not sure how can I know when estrogen sides start showing, maybe when you start getting lots of zits?

- Replace Sustanon with Test C or Test E unless you want to pin every other day.
Being from morocco, i couldn't find test e, sustanon is the most popular thing here, or you can find ANDROTARDYL (in pharmacies), i know it's test also, but is it the same as test e? If so I can legally buy it.
and please can you explain the (pin every other day) thing?
I'll use 500mg of sustanon, 250mg mon, 250mg thur

- HCG in cycle not PCT
Can you please tell me when to inject it? and how many times a week?
and should i do it the same day as sustanon injection or another day?

- dbol not anadrol

- Get Clomid for PCT
I have it too, but they advised me to start only with nolvadex for this first cycle
and add clomid next time when I add more compounds (like maybe deca)

- Sustanon is bad for people who cycle and PCT because you have to wait 21 days from last injection before you can start PCT. This means longer recovery and longer time before you can cycle again.
as far as I know you have to wait 2 weeks before pct, is it different when taking sustanon instead of test?

I have seen very few people actually have 40/40/20 as the correct macro split. It's meant to be a baseline then adjust from there based on how you respond to food. AGood chance your diet can be improved upon before cycling

So should I up my carbs?

- Bloodwork is done 6-8 weeks after PCT NOT after your last injection
Yeah I meant 8 weeks later

- 99% of multivitamins are garbage because they have the wrong version of each multivitamin.

I heard you need vitamin E and C

Thank you so much!

**TooManyYears** · 07-29-2019, 08:55 AM

I already have a little bit of gyno (naturally) so i'm not sure how can I know when estrogen sides start showing, maybe when you start getting lots of zits?
For a first timer it will be very hard to know if and when sides kick in. If you are gyno prone use 10-20 mg of Nolva daily to keep it in check.

Being from morocco, i couldn't find test e, sustanon is the most popular thing here, or you can find ANDROTARDYL (in pharmacies), i know it's test also, but is it the same as test e? If so I can legally buy it.
and please can you explain the (pin every other day) thing?
I'll use 500mg of sustanon, 250mg mon, 250mg thur
Read the Steroid Database on this website to learn the difference.

Can you please tell me when to inject it? and how many times a week?
and should i do it the same day as sustanon injection or another day?
2 times a week 250 IU. The days don't matter. Just 3,5 days in between.

I have it too, but they advised me to start only with nolvadex for this first cycle
and add clomid next time when I add more compounds (like maybe deca )
Use the standard PCT that is advised here by the people who know what they are talking about,

as far as I know you have to wait 2 weeks before pct, is it different when taking sustanon instead of test?
The wait time depends on the halflife of the steroid you use. For sus it's about 3 weeks, for Test E 2 weeks.

So should I up my carbs?
Yes

You do not only need vitamine C and E, but all of them. And minerals as well.

**Bonaparte** · 07-29-2019, 11:37 AM

You don't need any orals on your first cycle. Just give it a few weeks.

**bluelife93** · 07-31-2019, 03:03 AM

Thank you guys!
For hcg , should I run it for all the 12 weeks besides sus?

**TooManyYears** · 07-31-2019, 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by bluelife93

Thank you guys!
For hcg, should I run it for all the 12 weeks besides sus?

Yes, that's the general recommendation.

**HoldMyBeer** · 07-31-2019, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by TooManyYears

Yes, that's the general recommendation.

You sure you don't continue it to week 14 when you start pct? Exogenous test will still be working it's way out of the system during those 2 weeks, so your body will not be producing naturally during that time. Wouldn't it make sense to keep using the hcg ? (Or to week 13 bc I think hcg stays for 1 week)
Idk I've never pct

**TooManyYears** · 07-31-2019, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer

You sure you don't continue it to week 14 when you start pct? Exogenous test will still be working it's way out of the system during those 2 weeks, so your body will not be producing naturally during that time. Wouldn't it make sense to keep using the hcg ? (Or to week 13 bc I think hcg stays for 1 week)
Idk I've never pct

Well, you certainly got a point here. Especially when on sus, when PCT starts 18-21 days after last pin due to the longer esters.
So in that way you could argue to stay on hcg until PCT starts. But I do see one thing here: hcg promotes aromatization to estrogen (in the testes if I am not mistaken).
Now, on cycle this won't be much of a problem (and even wanted) because both male and female hormones will be higher and keep each other in balance.
But, when AAS levels are declining and E stays up, you might run into something.

I hope one of the knowledgeable members can shine their light on this matter.