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Thread: Front loading first cycle

  1. #1
    pfdept59's Avatar
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    Front loading first cycle

    Started first cycle,500mg Test Cyp per week and 500iu HCG per week.Injecting on Monday and Thursday.I am front loading the Test 1000 mg the first week,250 mg per day for 4 days.What do you guys think about how I am front loading?Should I have shot 1000 mg. on day 1?
    Thanks,pfdept59

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    Never front loaded any cycle I ever did. Personally don’t think it makes any difference. Your just shooting more test c, if you really wanted a front load then test p would have been my choice
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    You can experiment on your body as long as you have adequate knowledge and experience about compounds and how you react to them.
    Frontloading in the first cycle is like leaping forward with your eyes closed. But its not a big deal anyway, you are not going to kill yourself or cause any harm imho.
    Everybody reacts differently and there are too many variables to consider. Frontloading is not something to think about much in a simple test only cycle, you are not going to make significant difference. Frontloading will affect your serum levels (test and E2 levels particularly) in a different way depending on your SHBG levels, aromatase activity etc.
    People frontload because they use very long esters in their cycles or do phase-cycling with a wide variety of compounds.
    That’s my 0.02$. If GearHeaded chimes in, you’ll be enlightened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    Never front loaded any cycle I ever did. Personally donít think it makes any difference. Your just shooting more test c, if you really wanted a front load then test p would have been my choice

    Agree with this (prop bridge) , but anecdotally speaking Iíve noticed differences personally front loading the first week and feeling effects 3-4 weeks in. Hard to paint with a broad brush, but I believe itís worked for me. I also know thereís charts available on this site supporting it.

    To each their own as GHS mentioned too.

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    I would go 500 monday 500 thirsday. Dont like pinning to much. Actually i hate it.

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    Do you think front loading is worth doing the first week of my cycle?

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    I am 51 years old,last cycle I did was 30 years ago.I have been into physical fitness since i was in junior high school.I had quite a bit of knowledge and experience back then but it has been along time so this is technically not my first cycle.Best,pfdept59

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    Quote Originally Posted by pfdept59 View Post
    I am 51 years old,last cycle I did was 30 years ago.I have been into physical fitness since i was in junior high school.I had quite a bit of knowledge and experience back then but it has been along time so this is technically not my first cycle.Best,pfdept59
    It’s worked for me. Here’s a good article on the subject about hitting peak plasma concentrations....

    How to Properly Front-Load a Test E Cycle ? Steroids Before and After

    To be fair, there’s also arguments out there against it as well. Anecdotally I’ve noticed a positive change in test only cycles run at same dosages vs front loaded. My body has reacted positively to front loading. As TGH mentioned everyone reacts differently. There is also the option of starting on a short ester and bridging to a long ester. Good luck which ever way you choose, you’re probably in a win/win. Just be mindful of when you have your labs in October!
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    First 2 weeks in October I am in Germany visiting my daughter who recently left to go to school there,the 3rd week in October I will have my blood work done.I plan on being only on my TRT dose 6 weeks before my blood test,hopefully all my levels will be ok by then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pfdept59 View Post
    First 2 weeks in October I am in Germany visiting my daughter who recently left to go to school there,the 3rd week in October I will have my blood work done.I plan on being only on my TRT dose 6 weeks before my blood test,hopefully all my levels will be ok by then.
    I say fuck it and front load it, your levels are already going to be elevated from TRT. Worst case you lose out one 500 mg’s of test, who cares.

    6 weeks is good to go. Plenty of time, I’ve gotten to baseline in less time with my doc.

    (Love Germany by the way, was born in Wiesbaden. Shit ya, have fun).

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    I''m a fan of front loading, situation dependent of course .. I'll take a whole different perspective and throw this out there--

    guys say you need to run EQ (for example) for 16 weeks cause its such a slow ester .. BS. 16 weeks of EQ at 500mg per week is 8000mg total.

    I say you can inject 2000mg per week for only 4 weeks (8000mg total),, and your body will still utilize all 8000mg just like it would in the long 16 week cycle.. and thats the benefit of such long esters. you can front load them in short bursts and just let them do their thing .
    now guess what . your 16 week long cycle of EQ just became 4 weeks , now after 4 weeks you get to move on to 4 weeks of Tren , and then 4 weeks of NPP, and 4 weeks of Anadrol .. get my point ? in the same 16 week cycle as that measly 500mg of EQ , you've blasted basically 4 cycles instead of just one.

    most guys have it just the opposite . they think that long esters need to be ran for long duration, and short esters for short . WRONG.. look into veterinarian medicine and how a vet would use EQ on a sick horse compared to how it would use Winstrol . the long esters are designed to be injected short term, but last a long time, where the short esters have to be injected often and ran a long duration.
    the forum gurus have this ass backwards. you can front load long esters for short amounts of time and get massive benefits. short esters need to be continued daily as long as the drug is needed.


    side note: perhaps another subject, but I'm also a huge fan of running and front loading long and short esters together .. I rarely run deca without NPP to start, Tren e without tren ace to start, EQ without Dbol (yes eq and dbol are same drug on paper), test prop with test e when blasting test, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I''m a fan of front loading, situation dependent of course .. I'll take a whole different perspective and throw this out there--

    guys say you need to run EQ (for example) for 16 weeks cause its such a slow ester .. BS. 16 weeks of EQ at 500mg per week is 8000mg total.

    I say you can inject 2000mg per week for only 4 weeks (8000mg total),, and your body will still utilize all 8000mg just like it would in the long 16 week cycle.. and thats the benefit of such long esters. you can front load them in short bursts and just let them do their thing .
    now guess what . your 16 week long cycle of EQ just became 4 weeks , now after 4 weeks you get to move on to 4 weeks of Tren , and then 4 weeks of NPP, and 4 weeks of Anadrol .. get my point ? in the same 16 week cycle as that measly 500mg of EQ , you've blasted basically 4 cycles instead of just one.

    most guys have it just the opposite . they think that long esters need to be ran for long duration, and short esters for short . WRONG.. look into veterinarian medicine and how a vet would use EQ on a sick horse compared to how it would use Winstrol . the long esters are designed to be injected short term, but last a long time, where the short esters have to be injected often and ran a long duration.
    the forum gurus have this ass backwards. you can front load long esters for short amounts of time and get massive benefits. short esters need to be continued daily as long as the drug is needed.


    side note: perhaps another subject, but I'm also a huge fan of running and front loading long and short esters together .. I rarely run deca without NPP to start, Tren e without tren ace to start, EQ without Dbol (yes eq and dbol are same drug on paper), test prop with test e when blasting test, etc.
    My question is , is the risk worth the reward?

    This is me picking your brain as it's something I'm interested in trying ( front loading for short periods rather then full on 12 weeks etc.

    Will this destroy the kidneys ?
    What supps would you recommend to avoid any serious damage from high volume doses over these periods of time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisp83TRT View Post
    My question is , is the risk worth the reward?

    This is me picking your brain as it's something I'm interested in trying ( front loading for short periods rather then full on 12 weeks etc.

    Will this destroy the kidneys ?
    What supps would you recommend to avoid any serious damage from high volume doses over these periods of time.

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    the beauty of some Steroids compared to other drugs, is that some of them are attached to long esters and have a very slow and timed steady release.

    if I tell you how good of a time are you going to have drinking 24 beers over the weekend, compared to drinking 24 beers over a month (2 beers a day or so), your totally going to say 24 beers over the weekend . but your also going to say thats probably not as healthy as 'spreading it out' over the month instead.

    WELL.. long ester steroids spread it out for you. they are self tapering. unlike Beer, or coke, or aspirin or any other drug . long ester steroids are a built in safety. you can inject 2000mg of EQ all at once and your just not going to get that all at once.. its going to slowly release over time. its impossible to "od".

    you can't do that with most any other drug.. you can't take 2000mg of Percocet all at once to take care of your back pain for a month. nope, you gotta careful administer micro doses over hours and days.

    so really there is no "damage" or things to worry about front loading high dosages with long esters. the safety is already built into the drug profile itself

  14. #14
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    heres an extreme example of a "necessary" front load .. lets say I was in South America and I came across some super high quality vet grade EQ . but I was in a position where I could not risk trying to fly back home with it and bring it across the border through customs .. well shit, I'll just buy and inject the entire bottle before heading home. the drug will slowly release over weeks and weeks and I'll get the full effect.
    you can't do that with 99% of most other drugs. long ester steroids are awesome !

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I''m a fan of front loading, situation dependent of course .. I'll take a whole different perspective and throw this out there--

    guys say you need to run EQ (for example) for 16 weeks cause its such a slow ester .. BS. 16 weeks of EQ at 500mg per week is 8000mg total.

    I say you can inject 2000mg per week for only 4 weeks (8000mg total),, and your body will still utilize all 8000mg just like it would in the long 16 week cycle.. and thats the benefit of such long esters. you can front load them in short bursts and just let them do their thing .
    now guess what . your 16 week long cycle of EQ just became 4 weeks , now after 4 weeks you get to move on to 4 weeks of Tren , and then 4 weeks of NPP, and 4 weeks of Anadrol .. get my point ? in the same 16 week cycle as that measly 500mg of EQ , you've blasted basically 4 cycles instead of just one.

    most guys have it just the opposite . they think that long esters need to be ran for long duration, and short esters for short . WRONG.. look into veterinarian medicine and how a vet would use EQ on a sick horse compared to how it would use Winstrol . the long esters are designed to be injected short term, but last a long time, where the short esters have to be injected often and ran a long duration.
    the forum gurus have this ass backwards. you can front load long esters for short amounts of time and get massive benefits. short esters need to be continued daily as long as the drug is needed.


    side note: perhaps another subject, but I'm also a huge fan of running and front loading long and short esters together .. I rarely run deca without NPP to start, Tren e without tren ace to start, EQ without Dbol (yes eq and dbol are same drug on paper), test prop with test e when blasting test, etc.
    Running 2g worth of EQ, isn't there a point of diminishing returns? What if I ran 5g?
    Will someone completely new to aas really get better results off 2g test than 1g on their first cycle (if not new, just up the doses accordingly)? Isn't there just a max rate your body can put on muscle at a time?
    With EQ being relatively weak, I would think 2g would be feasible. I'm trying to figure out if this is applicable to all aas or just certain ones

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    Running 2g worth of EQ, isn't there a point of diminishing returns? What if I ran 5g?
    Will someone completely new to aas really get better results off 2g test than 1g on their first cycle (if not new, just up the doses accordingly)? Isn't there just a max rate your body can put on muscle at a time?
    With EQ being relatively weak, I would think 2g would be feasible. I'm trying to figure out if this is applicable to all aas or just certain ones

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    just to clarify I'm talking long esters heres, like EQ and deca .. if you injected 2g of EQ all at once, thats basically 500mg a week for 4 weeks. which is totally reasonable for your body to use all of that. 2g is going to be slowly absorbed over weeks , not days.
    I'm not talking running 2g of Tren ace all at once or test prop

    guys hear the word "2 grams of gear" and think thats the actual dosage. but you have to look at the ester and absorption rate.

    600mg a week of EQ for 12 weeks , is totally reasonable, right ? well thats a higher dosages then 2 grams of EQ in a single one time injection

    its just that we are not used to thinking about long ester drugs this way. we always just think about the weekly dosage over time. but in veterinary medicine long ester AAS are not used that way. if your a rancher with a sick cow that needs to gain weight and increase feed efficiency your not going to go out and inject that cow with EQ twice per week for 12 weeks straight.. instead, because of the long ester, you can simply inject the cow with a high dosage 1-2 times and the ester will slowly absorb providing its effect over time. that way you don't have to keep injecting your cow over and over again.

    again, a single injection of EQ at 2000mg is not really that high a dose because of the ester. the "diminishing returns" thing does not really apply here because your talking like 500mg a week is all that really equates to
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    Essentially what your saying is that you won't experience peaks and valleys with long esters such as EQ when injecting larger amounts. Just to lay it out does this make sense?

    Week 1: 2x injections of 1000mg EQ (2g total)
    Week 2 - 4: approx let's say 500mg is absorbed from initial injections per week. No further injections required?

    Week 5: 2x injections of 2nd long ester compound high dose.

    Week 1 to 10: Supplement cycle with shorter Ester from the start and through cycle for added benefit such as maintaining a base of 300mg test prop injected per week.

    In 10 weeks 2 compounds were added with shorter overall dose and faster initial blood level increase than if they were spread over the 10 weeks.

    Are there risks associated with people absorbing more or faster or is it pretty standard and not person dependent? I I'd be worried my body could absorb the massive dose faster than some others and find myself getting dosed higher than I'm ready to take on in that week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    Essentially what your saying is that you won't experience peaks and valleys with long esters such as EQ when injecting larger amounts. .
    the idea of "peaks" and "valleys" while on a heavy cycle isn't really relevant . its a non issue.. the idea of peaks and valleys comes from TRT, not AAS cycles.

    so heres what I mean..
    lets say your on TRT . ok well your getting your test levels up to the optimal range of say 800 ng/dl. well you want to maintain that "peak" optimal level and not let it drop down to say 300 ng/dl . so you inject as often as needed to maintain 'peak' levels..

    well with a heavy AAS cycle , the "valley" is still 2 x higher then what the peak is in TRT .. lets say you blast test and get your levels to 10,000 ng/dl, thats your "peak" and over time it drops down to say 2000 ng/dl before you get around to another injection .. well your "valley" is still over 2x higher then optimal levels at your low point.

    so you really don't need to worry about peaks and valleys when blasting AAS, as long as your dosages are suitable dosages and not TRT doses (remember TRT is just natty range of test,, not supraphysiological).

    when on cycle, wither you have peaks and valleys or not, your body is still going to utilize all of the drug. you don't have to maintain consistently high levels to get results.
    but again with long esters, they are self tapering. they will slowly elevate your levels then slowly taper the levels off over time. wither your levels are low or high your still going to be up regulating everything that the drug is supposed to be up regulating

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    side note: perhaps another subject, but I'm also a huge fan of running and front loading long and short esters together .. I rarely run deca without NPP to start, Tren e without tren ace to start, EQ without Dbol (yes eq and dbol are same drug on paper), test prop with test e when blasting test, etc.
    I've never done the same drug frontloading but did this short ester-long ester thing and worked for me. I didn't have to wait 3 weeks to get lets say 10 lbs from test e, I got it in the first 1.5 week than the other 1.5 week was extra. I did 750mg test e and 500mg deca front loaded with 500mg prop and 400mg npp the first week and it was great.

    Will definitely try that 4 week blast thing. I always have the problem what to run and what not, this way I could run 2-3-4 things, and don't have to pin them together, so I won't have to pin 4-5mls 2-3 times a week, just here and there once.
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    another potential benefit to front loading (I say "potential" because this theory is not founded on any science at this point), is to get a massive influx of hormones all at once. when you go from having normal androgen levels, to suddenly having a massive influx of very high dosages your body will over react (super compensate) in an attempt to deal with these massive influx of androgens and it will begin up regulating androgen receptor density (I,e, produce more androgen receptors) . more androgen receptors over time = more potential for growth.

    this theory was first proposed a decade or two ago by a cellular biologist who spent 25 years working for a pharmaceutical company that produced AAS, and his main job was studying the androgen receptor (I can't remember his name off the top of my head, but I can look it up).


    by front loading with short esters and long esters at high dosages, you can stimulate this massive influx and possibly increase AR density. you'd only need to do this for about 3 weeks..

    I've attempted this myself running a combo of 1 gram of Tren (tren ace and tren suspension) along with 2 grams of test and 600mg Mast, for a 3 week blast.. the goal here was to increase my androgen receptor density, which in theory would make any future cycles I run more effective .

    of course theres no way to test if it worked or not
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    The other important factor for Vet use is good luck having Old Betsy let you harpoon her every week with a 14G needle. These large animals are not stupid. After 1-2 injections with a 14G harpoon needle the animal wants to retaliate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    the idea of "peaks" and "valleys" while on a heavy cycle isn't really relevant . its a non issue.. the idea of peaks and valleys comes from TRT, not AAS cycles.

    so heres what I mean..
    lets say your on TRT . ok well your getting your test levels up to the optimal range of say 800 ng/dl. well you want to maintain that "peak" optimal level and not let it drop down to say 300 ng/dl . so you inject as often as needed to maintain 'peak' levels..

    well with a heavy AAS cycle , the "valley" is still 2 x higher then what the peak is in TRT .. lets say you blast test and get your levels to 10,000 ng/dl, thats your "peak" and over time it drops down to say 2000 ng/dl before you get around to another injection .. well your "valley" is still over 2x higher then optimal levels at your low point.

    so you really don't need to worry about peaks and valleys when blasting AAS, as long as your dosages are suitable dosages and not TRT doses (remember TRT is just natty range of test,, not supraphysiological).

    when on cycle, wither you have peaks and valleys or not, your body is still going to utilize all of the drug. you don't have to maintain consistently high levels to get results.
    but again with long esters, they are self tapering. they will slowly elevate your levels then slowly taper the levels off over time. wither your levels are low or high your still going to be up regulating everything that the drug is supposed to be up regulating
    I belibe this is true to a certain extent. This is totally anecdotal based off my own experience with my first cycle(obviously I’m no expert but this is my experience). When I was injecting Test E 2x per week I was getting oilier skin and more acne. When I switched to ED injections the oily skin basically went away. The acne got much better also. It would seem to make sense that you would still want to have more stable levels vs peaks and valleys even if your not on TRT and just doing a cycle.

    When your Test is rising your body reacts accordingly right? Increasing sebum production as well as all the other things AAS increase. When your levels are falling your body decreases these things as well. But when your body is basically at a state of “homeostasis” if you will then why wouldn’t there be less side effects?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    I belibe this is true to a certain extent. This is totally anecdotal based off my own experience with my first cycle(obviously I’m no expert but this is my experience). When I was injecting Test E 2x per week I was getting oilier skin and more acne. When I switched to ED injections the oily skin basically went away. The acne got much better also. It would seem to make sense that you would still want to have more stable levels vs peaks and valleys even if your not on TRT and just doing a cycle.

    When your Test is rising your body reacts accordingly right? Increasing sebum production as well as all the other things AAS increase. When your levels are falling your body decreases these things as well. But when your body is basically at a state of “homeostasis” if you will then why wouldn’t there be less side effects?
    I think this is true for a lot of guys,, especially guys that run low dosages ( Note: I consider anything under 1000mg of test per week for example a low dosage.. its at the 1000+ range that test becomes fairly anabolic , but lower then that its mainly an androgen and a very mild anabolic).

    so if your running say 500mg of test per week (which is a high TRT dose).. you never get to that ultra supra physiological range and your much more susceptible to fluctuation levels , ie, "peaks" and "valleys".. and like I said I think a lot of guys notice these fluctuations and experience more side effects when their levels are fluctuating. so guys that run low dosages may very well be better off doing more frequent injections.
    some guys don't notice a difference though (I've done daily and I've done once every 10 days .. don't notice much a difference . I'm talking when I'm just on a cruise dose).

    but guys that are running higher dosages.. 1500- 2 grams of test per week, with say 2 grams of other AAS. they have so much "sand on the beach" sort of speak, that they are not going to notice a drop off in a couple of buckets of sand one way or the other.
    but if your only running say 600mg of test and 400mg of deca ,, its quite possible to notice a drop off from not keeping consistent blood levels (again this is person dependent .. some guys won't notice , and perhaps other guys may get more or less sides).


    on a bit of a side note here-- for women. I've been told that women have less sides and do better running androgens when they specifically try to keep inconsistent blood levels. by not being exposed to a constant elevated level of androgens they will have less androgenic side effects.
    so if a women wanted to run Test Prop, she would be better off NOT doing daily injections, and do an injection only 1-2 x per week so her levels have time to fall off.
    I don't have any first hand experience with this as I only advocate female clients of mine run only anabolics and not androgens. but the info I received was from a fairly high level coach that has worked with female bodybuilders.
    IF this is the case, its interesting and quite different then what your experiencing by having more side effects when levels drop off.
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 06-25-2019 at 01:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I think this is true for a lot of guys,, especially guys that run low dosages ( Note: I consider anything under 1000mg of test per week for example a low dosage.. its at the 1000+ range that test becomes fairly anabolic , but lower then that its mainly an androgen and a very mild anabolic).

    so if your running say 500mg of test per week (which is a high TRT dose).. you never get to that ultra supra physiological range and your much more susceptible to fluctuation levels , ie, "peaks" and "valleys".. and like I said I think a lot of guys notice these fluctuations and experience more side effects when their levels are fluctuating. so guys that run low dosages may very well be better off doing more frequent injections.
    some guys don't notice a difference though (I've done daily and I've done once every 10 days .. don't notice much a difference . I'm talking when I'm just on a cruise dose).

    but guys that are running higher dosages.. 1500- 2 grams of test per week, with say 2 grams of other AAS. they have so much "sand on the beach" sort of speak, that they are not going to notice a drop off in a couple of buckets of sand one way or the other.
    but if your only running say 600mg of test and 400mg of deca ,, its quite possible to notice a drop off from not keeping consistent blood levels (again this is person dependent .. some guys won't notice , and perhaps other guys may get more or less sides).


    on a bit of a side note here-- for women. I've been told that women have less sides and do better running androgens when they specifically try to keep inconsistent blood levels. by not being exposed to a constant elevated level of androgens they will have less androgenic side effects.
    so if a women wanted to run Test Prop, she would be better off NOT doing daily injections, and do an injection only 1-2 x per week so her levels have time to fall off.
    I don't have any first hand experience with this as I only advocate female clients of mine run only anabolics and not androgens. but the info I received was from a fairly high level coach that has worked with female bodybuilders.
    IF this is the case, its interesting and quite different then what your experiencing by having more side effects when levels drop off.
    That does make sense. I was only on 500mg/ week. Also like you said some guys don’t notice any difference and some do.

    I’ve also heard that about women running androgens and trying not to have stable levels to mitigate sides. I Assume it would be different for women but I’d love to hear first hand from a woman with experience

  25. #25
    Couchlockd's Avatar
    Couchlockd is offline Senior Member
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    Haven't read all the posts, but here's .y take.

    Test isn't an ideal compound to front load, it's pretty quick regardless of ester, it's working from the second you inject it.

    As far as full saturation, yeah that takes some weeks, but it's not that it won't work till week 6 bullshit.

    Other compounds are worth front loading as they won't carry extreme sides that test can. Primo and mast are good candidates for a front load. Lots of things are, but test imho isn't worth it.

    Think you may just be inviting sides to build up once the cycle is in week 2 or 3

    You won't see the possible gyno or water cone the front load week, but very well may be laying a path for more estrogen conversion you plan for.

    Also, you may feel the regular weekly doses of test at 250 2x a week don't have "kick" (it will be all mental, but mental is a BIG FACTOR)
    Family_guy likes this.

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