Thinking of trying Deca

I've already tried all 3 major testosterones, Sustanon, and EQ. I'm thinking of trying something different now. I really don't know much about Deca other than that it is good for bulking, holds water, can cause prolactin issues with the nips, and the good old deca dick. So, what else do I need to know and how should I administer it? What ancillaries do I need for deca? I plan on running it alongside testosterone. What type of doses would be acceptable and in what ratios? What sides should I expect or look out for?

thanks in advance

The side effects of Deca are from poor cycle planning more than the drug itself.

I'm of the belief to run Test low and Deca high. A DHT will also be valuable to use with Nandrolone. Your mileage may vary.

Pramiplexol, Cabergoline, and Bromocriptine are the three drugs that fight prolactin. The best option is Caber because most people cannot handle Prami and Bromo is very hard to find. Caber should never be used proactively (ie from Day 1) and instead be used retroactively. Bloodwork is useful on a first 19nor run.

In terms of nutrition, Running low carbs with 19nors is a waste of time in my opinion.

I'd start with NPP (short ester Deca).. you'll get a much better feel for Nandrolone with it as it will kick in fairly quick.. I'd run 350-500mg a week just along side a TRT dose of test. if you have issues, being its a short ester it will be out of your system quickly as well . whereas deca will hang around for 4 weeks after last injection

deca/npp - is an ANABOLIC only (not really an AAS) it does not have any androgen load. in fact instead of converting to DHT like test does, it converts to DHN which then binds to DHT receptors but does not illicit any androgenic effects .. without test in your cycle, Deca can actually be anti androgenic in nature. (which is part of the reason why its a great compound for women)..
also, its not really going to aromatize (despite what online steroid profiles say). the molecular structure of a 19 nor limits aromatization (if you did not run Test, your estrogen levels would go down with deca).
Deca is 'wet' , not in that its estrogenic, but in that its 'retentive' in nature. this means it increases fluid retention (in a positive way) in muscle cells and in blood volume. it increases RBC as well as mineral retention . these are all beneficial for putting on mass

deca is a progestin based compound . that means it can interact with progesterone receptors as progestin itself.. so even though your progestin and prolactin levels may not elevate, the deca itself will act like progestin in the body. guys that are progestin sensitive may have issues with this (progestin receptor activation is going to make you super sensitive to estrogen . . . an AI will do nothing here. because its not aromatization that is the issue, its deca acting as progestin thats the issue). Masteron and Nolva are best combo to have on hand or implement if your progestin sensitive
note: caber and prami are often used incorrectly with deca, as most of the time the negative side effects are not actually from elevated prolactin.. Masteron does the trick and is a way better option

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GearHeaded

I'd start with NPP (short ester Deca).. you'll get a much better feel for Nandrolone with it as it will kick in fairly quick.. I'd run 350-500mg a week just along side a TRT dose of test. if you have issues, being its a short ester it will be out of your system quickly as well . whereas deca will hang around for 4 weeks after last injection

deca/npp - is an ANABOLIC only (not really an AAS) it does not have any androgen load. in fact instead of converting to DHT like test does, it converts to DHN which then binds to DHT receptors but does not illicit any androgenic effects .. without test in your cycle, Deca can actually be anti androgenic in nature. (which is part of the reason why its a great compound for women)..
also, its not really going to aromatize (despite what online steroid profiles say). the molecular structure of a 19 nor limits aromatization (if you did not run Test, your estrogen levels would go down with deca).
Deca is 'wet' , not in that its estrogenic, but in that its 'retentive' in nature. this means it increases fluid retention (in a positive way) in muscle cells and in blood volume. it increases RBC as well as mineral retention . these are all beneficial for putting on mass

deca is a progestin based compound . that means it can interact with progesterone receptors as progestin itself.. so even though your progestin and prolactin levels may not elevate, the deca itself will act like progestin in the body. guys that are progestin sensitive may have issues with this (progestin receptor activation is going to make you super sensitive to estrogen . . . an AI will do nothing here. because its not aromatization that is the issue, its deca acting as progestin thats the issue). Masteron and Nolva are best combo to have on hand or implement if your progestin sensitive
note: caber and prami are often used incorrectly with deca, as most of the time the negative side effects are not actually from elevated prolactin.. Masteron does the trick and is a way better option

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I love when gear speaks. .. :)

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Thanks for the suggestions and advice...

Gear, I would take NPP but I feel like in order to get the most out of any propionate ester, I would have to inject every day. When I was taking Test Prop EOD, I think what made me feel like crap after a while was the prop. The steady long esters, I seem to be able to handle better. Maybe it was just a fluke, but I felt better. With that said, I think I would want to stick to the long ester decanoate, just to play it safe and so I don't come on here in a few months and say "deca sucks!!" lol.

Windex, what numbers are you thinking with low test/high deca? 200/600? I will follow back up with caber dosing once I begin this "cycle." I am also kind of wondering if I could just cruise at a low test/low deca amount and be able to lower some fat and maintain or gain a little muscle. I know deca is a wet compound, but maybe I won't have issues at a lower dosage.

Other than that... I'm not sure I even want to try other DHTs outside of EQ. Even with EQ, as a guy who has a full head of hair, I noticed the top front of my hair getting thinner and my overall hair was looking stringier/less full. Now a month off EQ I swear my hair feels fuller in the front. Dryer compounds seem to need more frequent injections, which I want to stay away from. I've had my fun with daily injections, and I think I'm going to stay away from that. Masteron enanthate seemed like a cool choice at a low dose - I wonder if it affects hair and the prostate at 2-300 mg/week?

Hmm a lot to think about.

Subbed. TM I’ll be curious to see what you end up doing. It seems that we are brothers in arms when it comes to how test/EQ works with our bodies. I haven’t seen the results that others have seen. Even my first ever test cycle yielded zero results years ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

Thanks for the suggestions and advice...

Gear, I would take NPP but I feel like in order to get the most out of any propionate ester, I would have to inject every day. When I was taking Test Prop EOD, I think what made me feel like crap after a while was the prop. The steady long esters, I seem to be able to handle better. Maybe it was just a fluke, but I felt better. With that said, I think I would want to stick to the long ester decanoate, just to play it safe and so I don't come on here in a few months and say "deca sucks!!" lol.

Windex, what numbers are you thinking with low test/high deca? 200/600? I will follow back up with caber dosing once I begin this "cycle." I am also kind of wondering if I could just cruise at a low test/low deca amount and be able to lower some fat and maintain or gain a little muscle. I know deca is a wet compound, but maybe I won't have issues at a lower dosage.

Other than that... I'm not sure I even want to try other DHTs outside of EQ. Even with EQ, as a guy who has a full head of hair, I noticed the top front of my hair getting thinner and my overall hair was looking stringier/less full. Now a month off EQ I swear my hair feels fuller in the front. Dryer compounds seem to need more frequent injections, which I want to stay away from. I've had my fun with daily injections, and I think I'm going to stay away from that. Masteron enanthate seemed like a cool choice at a low dose - I wonder if it affects hair and the prostate at 2-300 mg/week?

Hmm a lot to think about.

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Eq is derived from test not dht.
I would say the hair thing is paranoia as I’m pretty sure it doesn’t come back ones it starts to thin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

Thanks for the suggestions and advice...

Gear, I would take NPP but I feel like in order to get the most out of any propionate ester, I would have to inject every day. When I was taking Test Prop EOD, I think what made me feel like crap after a while was the prop. The steady long esters, I seem to be able to handle better. Maybe it was just a fluke, but I felt better. With that said, I think I would want to stick to the long ester decanoate, just to play it safe and so I don't come on here in a few months and say "deca sucks!!" lol.

Windex, what numbers are you thinking with low test/high deca? 200/600? I will follow back up with caber dosing once I begin this "cycle." I am also kind of wondering if I could just cruise at a low test/low deca amount and be able to lower some fat and maintain or gain a little muscle. I know deca is a wet compound, but maybe I won't have issues at a lower dosage.

Other than that... I'm not sure I even want to try other DHTs outside of EQ. Even with EQ, as a guy who has a full head of hair, I noticed the top front of my hair getting thinner and my overall hair was looking stringier/less full. Now a month off EQ I swear my hair feels fuller in the front. Dryer compounds seem to need more frequent injections, which I want to stay away from. I've had my fun with daily injections, and I think I'm going to stay away from that. Masteron enanthate seemed like a cool choice at a low dose - I wonder if it affects hair and the prostate at 2-300 mg/week?

Hmm a lot to think about.

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Every single steroid affects prostate to some degree.

Male Pattern Baldness (hair shedding) is hereditary. Either you have the allele codes for it or you don't. Aside from running a DNA/genetics test ($300+) your only option is to run a DHT and see what happens.

Family history is also a misconception because people think well my dad balded so I'm automatically going to as well. Not true if you took your moms allele for that genotype.

Enanthate or longer esters should be injected E3D or 3x per week anyways if you want to maximize blood serum stability and health.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Windex

Every single steroid affects prostate to some degree.

Male Pattern Baldness (hair shedding) is hereditary. Either you have the allele codes for it or you don't. Aside from running a DNA/genetics test ($300+) your only option is to run a DHT and see what happens.

Family history is also a misconception because people think well my dad balded so I'm automatically going to as well. Not true if you took your moms allele for that genotype.

Enanthate or longer esters should be injected E3D or 3x per week anyways if you want to maximize blood serum stability and health.

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Maximizing blood serum stability actually happens on Ed injections even with long esthers although most people are not willing to do this. Maximizing blood serum stability means minimizing the sides.
Tren is probably the best compound to see this with since the sides can be pretty intense.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by charger69

Maximizing blood serum stability actually happens on Ed injections even with long esthers although most people are not willing to do this. Maximizing blood serum stability means minimizing the sides.
Tren is probably the best compound to see this with since the sides can be pretty intense.


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Yes, that's why I advocate E3D or 3xW since pinning Nandrolone, Parabolan, or EQ ED or EOD is not practical.

I'm referencing from the cookie cutter protocol of 2x per week (ie Mon AM Thurs PM). When moved to 3x per week on the same ester there is a substantial difference (anecdotally and from looking at graph). Even Tren Hex I pin 3x per week.