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Thread: Coming back after a failed first cycle

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    zigzagzig is offline Junior Member
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    Coming back after a failed first cycle

    In March 2018 I started my first cycle, a simple Test E 500mg/week. Unfortunately, one month later, I had to switch jobs and move to another city, making me stop it. Despite the short lived cycle, I did the full PCT protocol and I was able to retain most of the mass and strength the gains I made. Most of the change on my body was on recomposition and shape of muscles.

    I've been training natty since then and I believe I've got the most of it. I'm 36 yrs. old now and I'm starting to see that my performance on training is not advancing as it has been before.

    I'm planning to start my "first" cycle again and do it one twice a year for two or three years at least. I'm considering to do the basic one (described below) and then add more advanced compounds on the subsequent ones, if needed. I would like your input on my plans and also on my thoughts about adding HGH 3 IU EOD non-stop.

    I'm 5'11", currently 175lbs and 15%bf.

    Test E 500mg/week from week 1 to 12, pin 2x week.
    Aromisin 12.5mg EOD from week 1 to 14.
    HCG 750IU per week from week 1 to 14, 2x week.
    Clomid 75mg ED on week 15, 50mg on week 16, 25mg on weeks 17 and 18.
    Nolva 20mg ED from weeks 15 to 19.

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    It’s unlikely you’ll need the Aromasin at 500mg of test a week. Keep it on hand just Incase, but I wouldn’t use it unless you have to. Otherwise you’re just undoing a lot of potential good from the elevated estrogen levels.

    I’d probably run the nolvadex at 40mg instead of 20mg, at least the first week of pct.

    As for the hgh depends. Is it pharmaceutical or Chinese?
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  3. #3
    zigzagzig is offline Junior Member
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    Thanks for the feedback. I already got a way to get the Chinese, but I'm still working to get the pharmaceutical one. What would be your insight for the Chinese and for the pharma?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zigzagzig View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I already got a way to get the Chinese, but I'm still working to get the pharmaceutical one. What would be your insight for the Chinese and for the pharma?
    I’d use twice as much chinese

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    zigzagzig is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    I’d use twice as much chinese
    Which dosage of the Chinese would you recommend for a first 6 month cycle or an entire year cycle? I'm not heading to competition gains in the future but neither just a replacement therapy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zigzagzig View Post
    Which dosage of the Chinese would you recommend for a first 6 month cycle or an entire year cycle? I'm not heading to competition gains in the future but neither just a replacement therapy.
    Just gotta try it and work your way up and see how it is. Start at 1iu, assess how your joints feel after a week or two. Go up to 2ius. Continue on this process until you get to 5 or 6ius.

    That would be my process anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zigzagzig View Post
    Which dosage of the Chinese would you recommend for a first 6 month cycle or an entire year cycle? I'm not heading to competition gains in the future but neither just a replacement therapy.
    It would depend a lot on your goals from what I know about hgh. GearHeaded has a couple great write ups about this on here but I will try to paraphrase as best I can from memory.

    If your goal is burning fat then use the Gh at a couple IU first thing upon waking. This will cause a release of fatty acids into the bloodstr that can then be burned while doing fasted cardio.

    If your goal is bulking then I believe you should break up the dose into 2 doses pre and post workout I think. Or you could do one upon waking and one post workout.

    I’m no expert by any means but I think that’s the gist of it

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    zigzagzig is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    It would depend a lot on your goals from what I know about hgh. GearHeaded has a couple great write ups about this on here but I will try to paraphrase as best I can from memory.

    If your goal is burning fat then use the Gh at a couple IU first thing upon waking. This will cause a release of fatty acids into the bloodstr that can then be burned while doing fasted cardio.

    If your goal is bulking then I believe you should break up the dose into 2 doses pre and post workout I think. Or you could do one upon waking and one post workout.

    I’m no expert by any means but I think that’s the gist of it

    My goal is lean bulking. Not looking just for mass weight per se, but quality one. I've been "bulking" and "cutting" from 170lbs to 185lbs in the last years. But at 175lbs now, I look much better than at 185lbs on my early 30s. Now at 36 y.o., I feel this strategy is not working anymore. Also, I want to get to another level.

    By what I've researched so far, an initial 2 IU/ day (=4 IU/ day generic ?) would be good to assess the effects. However, I'm in doubt if that's the best approach to lean bulk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zigzagzig View Post
    My goal is lean bulking. Not looking just for mass weight per se, but quality one. I've been "bulking" and "cutting" from 170lbs to 185lbs in the last years. But at 175lbs now, I look much better than at 185lbs on my early 30s. Now at 36 y.o., I feel this strategy is not working anymore. Also, I want to get to another level.

    By what I've researched so far, an initial 2 IU/ day (=4 IU/ day generic ?) would be good to assess the effects. However, I'm in doubt if that's the best approach to lean bulk.
    Like I said man I’m no expert. Maybe someone else with more experience with GH can help

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    You can get your IGF levels tested to see how legit your GH is. Start with low dose and wait for sides to appear. If you don’t get achy joints, up the dose.

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    zigzagzig is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Family_guy View Post
    Like I said man I’m no expert. Maybe someone else with more experience with GH can help
    No worries. Thanks for the info!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The God Himself View Post
    You can get your IGF levels tested to see how legit your GH is. Start with low dose and wait for sides to appear. If you don’t get achy joints, up the dose.
    I'm planning to do it after 5 or 6 weeks in.
    I'm able to get a pharma brand instead of a generic one (much more expensive). However as it is not direct from the pharmacy, I'm inclined to get the "legit" Chinese as opposed to a chance of a fake pharma. Any opinion?

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    You need Test your IGF1 levels at Week 2 and Week 4. If it's fake then you contact your source to make it right, otherwise find a new source.

    If it's real but underdosed then you would adjust your dose accordingly.

    The idea that chinese is half the potency or pharma is internet nonsense by parrots

    If you don't know how to 100% confidently spot fake pharma gear then you should not be buying pharma gear.

    Some UGLs offer credits and incentives for bloodwork on their products.

    The best option is to find a reliable source. They are few and far between for HGH.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zigzagzig View Post
    In March 2018 I started my first cycle, a simple Test E 500mg/week. Unfortunately, one month later, I had to switch jobs and move to another city, making me stop it. Despite the short lived cycle, I did the full PCT protocol and I was able to retain most of the mass and strength the gains I made. Most of the change on my body was on recomposition and shape of muscles.

    I've been training natty since then and I believe I've got the most of it. I'm 36 yrs. old now and I'm starting to see that my performance on training is not advancing as it has been before.

    I'm planning to start my "first" cycle again and do it one twice a year for two or three years at least. I'm considering to do the basic one (described below) and then add more advanced compounds on the subsequent ones, if needed. I would like your input on my plans and also on my thoughts about adding HGH 3 IU EOD non-stop.

    I'm 5'11", currently 175lbs and 15%bf.

    Test E 500mg/week from week 1 to 12, pin 2x week.
    Aromisin 12.5mg EOD from week 1 to 14.
    HCG 750IU per week from week 1 to 14, 2x week.
    Clomid 75mg ED on week 15, 50mg on week 16, 25mg on weeks 17 and 18.
    Nolva 20mg ED from weeks 15 to 19.
    That's a bit much HCG, IMHO. I prefer to run GH 5 days on, 2 days off.
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    I've read that the 5 on 2 off theory is off and just really used because it's too expensive for some.

    Personally I ran 4iu Chinese HGH for 4 months 7 days a week. I started at 2.5 and moved up to 4iu and was happy there. My body felt great no huge gains or massive differences but it supported my pre cycle training and my shoulders havnt felt as good since, best restful sleeps of my life as well.

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    Thanks you all for the inputs. My updated plan is to start with 1iu/day on the first week, then 2iu/day on the second and third, then 3iu 5on/2off for another month. If all goes wright, I'll up to 4iu after the blood work.
    I'll start my AAS cycle on the third week of HCG .

    Is it OK to stop it for a week during Xmas air travels?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zigzagzig View Post
    Thanks you all for the inputs. My updated plan is to start with 1iu/day on the first week, then 2iu/day on the second and third, then 3iu 5on/2off for another month. If all goes wright, I'll up to 4iu after the blood work.
    I'll start my AAS cycle on the third week of HCG .

    Is it OK to stop it for a week during Xmas air travels?
    Yes it’s just fine to stop it for a week

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeCee112 View Post
    I've read that the 5 on 2 off theory is off and just really used because it's too expensive for some.

    Personally I ran 4iu Chinese HGH for 4 months 7 days a week. I started at 2.5 and moved up to 4iu and was happy there. My body felt great no huge gains or massive differences but it supported my pre cycle training and my shoulders havnt felt as good since, best restful sleeps of my life as well.
    I run it at 5 on/2 off because I run it low dose (2 iu) as an aid to healing...this time nerve damage. At 5 on/2 off, my IGF-1 is still in the mid to high 400s on a non shot day, so yes, if I can extend my low dose run and maintain a decent IGF-1 score, I definitely go that route.

    On the other hand, if I was going for growth purposes, I would work up to 6-8 iu/day every day.
    There are 3 loves in my life: my wife, my English mastiffs, and my weightlifting....Man, my wife gets really pissed when I get the 3 confused...
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    I've just received my pre-cycle blood work. Apparently my total and free Test are at a reasonable level:
    Total 673,0 ng/dL
    Free 418,6 pmol/L

    IGF-1: 117 ng/mL

    From what I've red around the forum, I should expect the IGF-1 to be above 400ng/mL by the 4th to 5th week of HGH. Righ?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zigzagzig View Post
    I've just received my pre-cycle blood work. Apparently my total and free Test are at a reasonable level:
    Total 673,0 ng/dL
    Free 418,6 pmol/L

    IGF-1: 117 ng/mL

    From what I've red around the forum, I should expect the IGF-1 to be above 400ng/mL by the 4th to 5th week of HGH. Righ?!
    The result is going to vary based on dosage, the lab running the bloodwork, the ref. ranges used, and how much you control your other variables before the blood is drawn.

    There is no number that it "should" be because there are too many variables as mentioned above. What matters is the result relative to the initial bloodwork while considering how all the other variables were handled.
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