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Thread: AAS and Brain Reward System

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb AAS and Brain Reward System

    Hello everyone,
    Lately I was checking some articles about AAS and their effects. I have came across a diferent study about AAS and their effects on brain reward system.

    The article can be found here:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4549565/

    The study is done on rats, mice and hamsters. Different drugs seem to induce different results. For example, low doses of testosterone increased the conditional place preference on mice but on rats it seems to increase the self-administration of the drug. They also have found that in animals drostanolone and nandrolone tend to be self-administered. They suggested dopaminergic antagonist may alleviate this effect to some extent which means that the dopaminergic pathways are important in this behavior especially in nucleus accumbens (NA) and ventral tegmental area (VTA). Nandrolone seems to reduce the mRNA expression of D1 receptors in NA.
    The study requires a detailed analysis and a good read since some effects can be seen only when the testosterone is directly injected into NA. NA and VTA plays important role in reinforced behaviour in mammals iirc.
    I believe this is a great study and would be great to discuss further in this topic about the behavioral effects of AAS use in men.
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    That is one of the best articles I have read, in any discipline. As far as the addiction potential, anything that someone devotes their life to is by definition addicting. AAS are hormones. Hormones effect all aspects of function: biology, psyche, behavior, etc. It is interesting that different AAS affected different signaling pathways and different behavioral effects. This would be expected but not proven.
    One of the main takeaways of the article is that moderation is key to all aspects of health and life.
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    You just read my mind, my new girlfriend called me an AAS addict and I am actually not, I don't think I can be addicted to it, running test only cycles for years although she believes that AAS addiction is similar to something like Oxy or cocaine as when I am off cycle I actually crave for it and whenever I am on cycle I just can't wait for my next injection, I literally wait patiently and count days to my next injection.

    We are still in this battle where I am explaining better healthy lifestyle with AAS where she is stuck on 'Natty is the new healthy' phenomenon.

    I am 37 now and she is making me think if I have an Addiction? I guess this is the brain reward system and I know if today I want to go all natty I can (yes there will be struggling times but I can if I want)

    Don't know if my post makes any sense to anyone
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    I am addicted.
    If I stopped I would become self destructive and hate all things including life itself.

    I am well put toogether, calm, and content.

    Right up until I cant fufill my building duties and fall back. Then I am no one to be around. I am not just antisocial. I become anti life in general.

    I have seen all hormone levels available in huge fluxes. None of it caused irrational behavior once I put advanced reasoning over instinctual desire.

    I can't do that with a loss of the the thing that drives me.

    Biggest issues I faced were hot summers unable to maintain with work and dead winters with no work.

    If I don't have building and my work then I am better off dead.
    I actually wrote some notes on this for the upcoming podcast.

    AAS did not change me. The lifestyle is what changed me. My entire lifestyle.

    I operate off kill mode. Every day and every job or lift is something I have to come at with a mindset to destroy. Without that my drive has no place to be expelled.

    I get tired, sick of shit, and I have to just start moving with aggrivation at the challenge. Pretty soon I am at a dead run either slinging trees or on to a dropset.

    The confusion starts off the fact that this mindset does not work for domesticated life.

    I can't come charging in to family game night and make shit all better. Tedious tasks that require a gentle nature are cumbersome, aggrivating, and seen as a distraction to what I feel.

    I procrastinate until I have to often times. In procrastination I am dead weight and not even there. Once the beast wakes up it does not lie down.
    It consumes.

    If its work I am conquering I cant bear to stop to eat even if I haven't eaten all day.
    If its building I am more focused on it infuriates me to go to work in 90 heat and burn my ass up.

    I have changed.
    I am not the same person I was at all.
    I never even wanted bodybuilding. I wanted to get to xxx and surpassed it. Then I realized it would never be enough. Money/building and they type A personality...

    Hell I still dont want either but I have to be the best I can be or I will want death.

    It has consumed me.
    I won't stop. The addiction is a personality flaw that has become who I am.

  5. #5
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    Some time a long time ago someone pointed out:

    What kind of person does it take to risk prison and take injectable substances for the sole purpose of increasing muscular power and physique?
    A damn agressive person.

    You won't find any advanced BB's that are type b personalities. They are driven to the point of risking their well being to achieve a goal.
    That premise basically excludes type B's

    Therefore the others will see BB's as agressive very often. The "roid rage " idea stems off this I believe.

    Hell no we aren't as social either.
    My neighbors are slamming beers and bullshitting with buddies while I am downstairs lifting or off to the gym.

    There is no calm in a builders mind.
    Thats the fake face they put on. Theres a constant war going on inside and they like it. Thats the only way you get there.

    AAS didn't make me order that first vial and stick a 16 guage cow needle in my ass. I wanted that shit because I am an aggressive assertive person willing to do whatever it takes.
    I ain't going in halfway. I don't play just the tip.
    Its all in or its all out. I actually treat people in my life the same way.

    The effects of AAS are 100% dependant on the personality of the end user. Animals dont have advanced reasoning to control their instinctual desire so patterns are seen. The pattern in humans is the desire to succeed that got them taking it in the first place.

    A driven man will be a lot more prone to being consumed by the lifestyle. A half asser will complain of sides to no end.

    I get anxious, I get angry, I get horny, I get depressed, I get bloated, I get GI issues, I get and got and had all that shit before AAS.

    Matter of fact, a lot of that is what led me to internet searching "steroids " and finding this site a dozen years ago. I didn't have a mentor or peer pressure or any shit telling me to do it at 21 years old. Hell I had to buy pins and barrels at a feed store and washed and reused them.

    I was driven. Something was going to change and it did. The guy I am now loves it to much to stop, come death.

    This board is loaded with driven, assertive, aggressive, A types.
    Whatever it takes.

    Most of my observations are based on philosophy and human nature. Rarely science.

    Science tries to link trending behaviors or dominant behaviors to classify mental conditions etc.

    Yet they have no basis of a perfect mindset. Therefore findings are just laid out as possible conditions.

    A mouse with a tendancy is in no way comparable to a human.

    For example I would love to go fuck a bunch of strage young women and could. But I dont.
    I know I wont do better than what I have if I look for the rest of my life.

    Advanced reasoning dictates all.

    The idea that people cannot control or are more predispositioned toward certain actions based on a hormone flux or imbalance or that they will do "x" is total bs in my opinion.

    Scientists look at things backwards.

    "Steroids can enlarge the heart!"

    No spanky... 150 extra lbs of muscle having to be fed blood and oxygen under extreme duress enlarges the heart and other organs.

    We live in a society that wants explanations for behaviors that science looks at from a chemical standpoint. Good luck with that.

    I could really go for some strange puss though.
    I would tear it up and on to the next.

    That pesky advanced reasoning...
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    If you just look at the nature, most of the animals are hormone-driven. The cute pink domestic pig becomes the wild boar (they are the same species: sus scrofa), when it goes feral, as in wild environment they start to produce more and more testosterone .
    Cats go frenzy when march comes, due to increased androgens. Yet all human embryos start the journey as females until the androgens start to transform the embryo to a male.
    What makes us different is that we are conscious. We are not solely based on our instincts. But what I really want to point here is that the androgens can really change our reasoning, the way we think and alter our personalities.
    After all, our brain makes us who we are. Our bodies naturally produce steroids and some of them are called neurosteroids. They play crucial role on our mental health and sanity. Deprivation of neurosteroids can lead to depression, memory and cognitive dysfunction, mental fog and many other issues. This is why many of people with hypogonadism go the TRT route: to feel and function better.
    There are many neurotransmitters in human brain, but to name few I can count serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline. These three are members of a family called monoamines that scientists blame their imbalance are responsible of many mental illnesses such as depression and anxiety. As GearHeaded mentioned many times, our brains have both androgen and estrogen receptors. And supraphysiological levels of steroids can play role in up/downregulation of such monoamines.
    My point is that if you have any underlying mental illness or lack enough knowledge about human body and endocrinological systems, you should steer clear of irresponsible use of any AAS unless you know what you're doing really well and conscious.
    I can't talk for all but certainly some of us, including myself, had self-esteem issues in the past (rooting from childhood or teenage years may be) and this is one of implicit reasons we choose AAS to perfect the imperfections we have seen in ourselves. People can't see our personalities but they can definitely see our bodies and how strong we may appear. In such cases, stupid decisions and psychological problems can lead to even worse cases of mental issues. I don't want anyone to destroy their lives, upping the tren may even make things worse in some cases lol.
    In the end this is either a recreational activity/hobby for us to live our lives better or a tool we use to rise on the contest stage. It is up to us to differentiate what we do from addiction. If there is nothing else makes you happy other than AAS, then definitely things are not going well for you. (not targeting anyone in this thread with this sentence)
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    Quote Originally Posted by The God Himself View Post
    If you just look at the nature, most of the animals are hormone-driven. The cute pink domestic pig becomes the wild boar (they are the same species: sus scrofa), when it goes feral, as in wild environment they start to produce more and more testosterone .
    Cats go frenzy when march comes, due to increased androgens. Yet all human embryos start the journey as females until the androgens start to transform the embryo to a male.
    What makes us different is that we are conscious. We are not solely based on our instincts. But what I really want to point here is that the androgens can really change our reasoning, the way we think and alter our personalities.
    After all, our brain makes us who we are. Our bodies naturally produce steroids and some of them are called neurosteroids. They play crucial role on our mental health and sanity. Deprivation of neurosteroids can lead to depression, memory and cognitive dysfunction, mental fog and many other issues. This is why many of people with hypogonadism go the TRT route: to feel and function better.
    There are many neurotransmitters in human brain, but to name few I can count serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline. These three are members of a family called monoamines that scientists blame their imbalance are responsible of many mental illnesses such as depression and anxiety. As GearHeaded mentioned many times, our brains have both androgen and estrogen receptors. And supraphysiological levels of steroids can play role in up/downregulation of such monoamines.
    My point is that if you have any underlying mental illness or lack enough knowledge about human body and endocrinological systems, you should steer clear of irresponsible use of any AAS unless you know what you're doing really well and conscious.
    I can't talk for all but certainly some of us, including myself, had self-esteem issues in the past (rooting from childhood or teenage years may be) and this is one of implicit reasons we choose AAS to perfect the imperfections we have seen in ourselves. People can't see our personalities but they can definitely see our bodies and how strong we may appear. In such cases, stupid decisions and psychological problems can lead to even worse cases of mental issues. I don't want anyone to destroy their lives, upping the tren may even make things worse in some cases lol.
    In the end this is either a recreational activity/hobby for us to live our lives better or a tool we use to rise on the contest stage. It is up to us to differentiate what we do from addiction. If there is nothing else makes you happy other than AAS, then definitely things are not going well for you. (not targeting anyone in this thread with this sentence)
    I really cant say what makes me happy.
    Happiness is not really happiness for me.

    Not steroid related.
    My point was my personality and mindframe has always overshadowed any instinctual offset of AAS.

    If a person finds hormones dictating ther actions or lives in any amount, I would suggest they cease them until they are mentally equipped enough to handle their actions.
    Last edited by Obs; 09-03-2019 at 01:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    If a person finds hormones dictating ther actions or lives in any amount, I would suggest they cease them until they are mentally equipped enough to handle their actions.
    That should be an opening to any steroid related book.
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    I hear someone say,
    How would you feel if all the sudden you couldn't take steroids anymore? Fear? Sense of loss? That's addiction
    Which is crap. Anything that your body is physically dependant on or it will make you go through depression, hormone changes, etc is going to make you feel that way. Plus, you spend how many years and how much money towards a goal which is now unobtainable? Take away someone's dreams and that will definitely cause a sense of loss
    I do agree there is a correlation between gear and addiction, but I've been / am (technically you always are and you are only in recovery not ever actually "all better") a true addict , and this is nowhere near comparable. The instant gratification just isn't there for it to be. Or maybe I just haven't pinned enough tren base at one time....
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    I hear someone say,
    How would you feel if all the sudden you couldn't take steroids anymore?
    If I couldn’t take AAS anymore I’d just start blasting growth factors and Insulin . I’ve seen some very big dudes grow doing that for a few months while they’ve completely dropped gear. Not my personal choice, but it does work apparently.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    I hear someone say,
    How would you feel if all the sudden you couldn't take steroids anymore? Fear? Sense of loss? That's addiction
    Which is crap. Anything that your body is physically dependant on or it will make you go through depression, hormone changes, etc is going to make you feel that way. Plus, you spend how many years and how much money towards a goal which is now unobtainable? Take away someone's dreams and that will definitely cause a sense of loss
    I do agree there is a correlation between gear and addiction, but I've been / am (technically you always are and you are only in recovery not ever actually "all better") a true addict , and this is nowhere near comparable. The instant gratification just isn't there for it to be. Or maybe I just haven't pinned enough tren base at one time....
    "According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, people begin taking drugs for a variety of reasons, including:

    to feel good — feeling of pleasure, “high”
    to feel better — e.g., relieve stress
    to do better — improve performance
    curiosity and peer pressure
    People with addictive disorders may be aware of their problem, but be unable to stop it even if they want to. The addiction may cause health problems as well as problems at work and with family members and friends. The misuse of drugs and alcohol is the leading cause of preventable illnesses and premature death.

    Symptoms of substance use disorder are grouped into four categories:

    Impaired control: a craving or strong urge to use the substance; desire or failed attempts to cut down or control substance use
    Social problems: substance use causes failure to complete major tasks at work, school or home; social, work or leisure activities are given up or cut back because of substance use
    Risky use: substance is used in risky settings; continued use despite known problems
    Drug effects: tolerance (need for larger amounts to get the same effect); withdrawal symptoms (different for each substance)"

    I think my situation classifies on all levels but its the lifestyle, not just a compound.

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    Tobacco is considered an addiction.
    I could leave tobbacco easily if I wanted.

    I won't leave this and if I did it would destroy me and everything around me.
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    Anyone else enjoys the PIP? (I mean mild), I feel happy when PIP is there and then slowly slowly fades away I think I am crazy hahahha

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    I'm on a very mild cycle right now. my main injection days are Saturday and Weds,, I also do a daily injection of a SARM in my biceps daily,, but thats not much. every Saturday and weds I break open an ampule of test (I've added a little bit of EQ to that as well). I totally look forward to these days.

    just because I look forward to these days and doing these injections , does that mean I'm addicted ?

    I don't think so.. I'm just trying to optimize my results and performance. its like eating quality and nutritious food. if I look forward to a meal that I know is going to fuel my performance and better me , does that mean I'm addicted to food ? no I don't think so


    I started a few different cycles this summer, but pulled the plug like 2 weeks in knowing my diet and training were not on point because of other shit going on. If I was an 'addict' I'd probably of went though with the cycles anyhow . just like an alcoholic,, he's not going to have half a beer and say, "nah I'm good" , no he's going to have the whole beer and 12 more.

    I've had like 9 different surgeries and major life altering injuries and been bed ridden for a year. I could not function without hardcore narcotic pain pills. I couldn't face a day without them. then when my health got better and pain subsided some,, physically my body still had to have those pills otherwise it would rebel against me. thats a 'real' addiction. a physical addiction where you can't just start and stop and stop anytime you want.

    I have and can stop AAS use at anytime.. There is no physical addiction. though mentally, just like training and a quality diet, I know that AAS can enhance my results and quality of life. but heck, even though I make ZERO natty test, I've even came off of Test and all AAS for 6 months just for the hell of it.


    of course anything can become an 'addiction' - but there is a world of difference , imo, from a physical dependency addiction (where you could actually die from stopping cold turkey) and a basic 'mental' addiction to something you like

    note- of course there are plenty of physiological things with AAS use. I'm not saying its only mental. but just because one day you decide to stop using AAS cold turkey, your not going to go into shock and die (which can happen with other highly addictive drugs)
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 09-04-2019 at 10:47 AM.
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    I wouldn’t say they’re addictive, but I think that word gets over used now in days. Just like how they’ve coined a “disorder” after every human condition.

    At one point I completely quit using AAS for like 12 years. Kind of wish I didn’t. Definitely didn’t put me ahead in any way, shape, or form. Surely didn’t improve my quality of life.

    To be fair, there have been several times where I have been just as excited to get off of a large cycle as I was to get on it in the first place. That doesn’t seem like addiction to me.

    Now am I somewhat “addicted” to testosterone ? I’ll leave that up for debate. My natty levels are dog shit, and I feel better cruising on the high end of normal, or higher than normal. I don’t think think that’s addiction as much as it’s like saying I prefer working outside when it’s 75 and sunny as opposed to 38 degrees and raining. Am I addicted to the sunshine? No. I just prefer things not to suck.
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    AAS and Brain Reward System

    Interesting topic for sure. I have watched several YT videos where Dave Crossland speaks in depth specifically on nandrolone and similar studies to the one posted by the OP. Iirc he specifically believes nandrolone based compounds have contributed to some issues he is personally dealing with.

    Also interesting that the study posted seams to point to AAS usage appearing to make users hypersensitive to a degree to opioids and other cns stimulants.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dgs59 View Post
    You just read my mind, my new girlfriend called me an AAS addict and I am actually not, I don't think I can be addicted to it, running test only cycles for years although she believes that AAS addiction is similar to something like Oxy or cocaine as when I am off cycle I actually crave for it and whenever I am on cycle I just can't wait for my next injection, I literally wait patiently and count days to my next injection.

    We are still in this battle where I am explaining better healthy lifestyle with AAS where she is stuck on 'Natty is the new healthy' phenomenon.

    I am 37 now and she is making me think if I have an Addiction? I guess this is the brain reward system and I know if today I want to go all natty I can (yes there will be struggling times but I can if I want)

    Don't know if my post makes any sense to anyone

    The way we speak defines ourselves to others, provides a framework for how we speak again, and puts limits on what we can do (and get away with). The power of words creates our reality, we are social animals, social relations is our reality. Perhaps your possible addiction seems to be within the framework of the reality you created? By the reality you have created, maybe you need to be conscious of what you are telling yourself or, that which you are broadcasting? Ask yourself, why am I sending out this message. Why do I feel that I am only good when I'm cycling? (Maybe you are always good? Maybe you are defining your happiness to those times? Or, maybe you are happier than you know?) Everything that exists outside of us is an object that our brain can define the relationship between ourselves and that object...AAS, girlfriends, words...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    I am addicted.
    If I stopped I would become self destructive and hate all things including life itself.

    I am well put toogether, calm, and content.

    Right up until I cant fufill my building duties and fall back. Then I am no one to be around. I am not just antisocial. I become anti life in general.

    I have seen all hormone levels available in huge fluxes. None of it caused irrational behavior once I put advanced reasoning over instinctual desire.

    I can't do that with a loss of the the thing that drives me.

    Biggest issues I faced were hot summers unable to maintain with work and dead winters with no work.

    If I don't have building and my work then I am better off dead.
    I actually wrote some notes on this for the upcoming podcast.

    AAS did not change me. The lifestyle is what changed me. My entire lifestyle.

    I operate off kill mode. Every day and every job or lift is something I have to come at with a mindset to destroy. Without that my drive has no place to be expelled.

    I get tired, sick of shit, and I have to just start moving with aggrivation at the challenge. Pretty soon I am at a dead run either slinging trees or on to a dropset.

    The confusion starts off the fact that this mindset does not work for domesticated life.

    I can't come charging in to family game night and make shit all better. Tedious tasks that require a gentle nature are cumbersome, aggrivating, and seen as a distraction to what I feel.

    I procrastinate until I have to often times. In procrastination I am dead weight and not even there. Once the beast wakes up it does not lie down.
    It consumes.

    If its work I am conquering I cant bear to stop to eat even if I haven't eaten all day.
    If its building I am more focused on it infuriates me to go to work in 90 heat and burn my ass up.

    I have changed.
    I am not the same person I was at all.
    I never even wanted bodybuilding. I wanted to get to xxx and surpassed it. Then I realized it would never be enough. Money/building and they type A personality...

    Hell I still dont want either but I have to be the best I can be or I will want death.

    It has consumed me.
    I won't stop. The addiction is a personality flaw that has become who I am.

    OBS, you are a very industrious individual. AAS are fine, but perhaps you should diversify. The ability to receive reward from other sources provides a greater level of fulfillment. You are martial, perhaps in addition to this pursuit (AAS) you may look into other ways of suited to a man with an aggressive nature. MMA, volunteer fireman..something like that. Make it something social, if that doesn't suit you, look to art in order to share and take from the world. Isn't that what you are doing here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    Some time a long time ago someone pointed out:

    What kind of person does it take to risk prison and take injectable substances for the sole purpose of increasing muscular power and physique?
    A damn agressive person.

    You won't find any advanced BB's that are type b personalities. They are driven to the point of risking their well being to achieve a goal.
    That premise basically excludes type B's

    Therefore the others will see BB's as agressive very often. The "roid rage " idea stems off this I believe.

    Hell no we aren't as social either.
    My neighbors are slamming beers and bullshitting with buddies while I am downstairs lifting or off to the gym.

    There is no calm in a builders mind.
    Thats the fake face they put on. Theres a constant war going on inside and they like it. Thats the only way you get there.

    AAS didn't make me order that first vial and stick a 16 guage cow needle in my ass. I wanted that shit because I am an aggressive assertive person willing to do whatever it takes.
    I ain't going in halfway. I don't play just the tip.
    Its all in or its all out. I actually treat people in my life the same way.

    The effects of AAS are 100% dependant on the personality of the end user. Animals dont have advanced reasoning to control their instinctual desire so patterns are seen. The pattern in humans is the desire to succeed that got them taking it in the first place.

    A driven man will be a lot more prone to being consumed by the lifestyle. A half asser will complain of sides to no end.

    I get anxious, I get angry, I get horny, I get depressed, I get bloated, I get GI issues, I get and got and had all that shit before AAS.

    Matter of fact, a lot of that is what led me to internet searching "steroids " and finding this site a dozen years ago. I didn't have a mentor or peer pressure or any shit telling me to do it at 21 years old. Hell I had to buy pins and barrels at a feed store and washed and reused them.

    I was driven. Something was going to change and it did. The guy I am now loves it to much to stop, come death.

    This board is loaded with driven, assertive, aggressive, A types.
    Whatever it takes.

    Most of my observations are based on philosophy and human nature. Rarely science.

    Science tries to link trending behaviors or dominant behaviors to classify mental conditions etc.

    Yet they have no basis of a perfect mindset. Therefore findings are just laid out as possible conditions.

    A mouse with a tendancy is in no way comparable to a human.

    For example I would love to go fuck a bunch of strage young women and could. But I dont.
    I know I wont do better than what I have if I look for the rest of my life.

    Advanced reasoning dictates all.

    The idea that people cannot control or are more predispositioned toward certain actions based on a hormone flux or imbalance or that they will do "x" is total bs in my opinion.

    Scientists look at things backwards.

    "Steroids can enlarge the heart!"

    No spanky... 150 extra lbs of muscle having to be fed blood and oxygen under extreme duress enlarges the heart and other organs.

    We live in a society that wants explanations for behaviors that science looks at from a chemical standpoint. Good luck with that.

    I could really go for some strange puss though.
    I would tear it up and on to the next.

    That pesky advanced reasoning...
    You don't have to drink beer and make friends with a whole bunch of Baumhuer King of the Hill Types nor changes, quit or modify your current program. Walk into a room where you have something to learn. Keep going back there until the challenge changes from improving yourself to investing in others self improvement. Such is the nature of manhood. Just be just as dominant in these other pursuits. Diversify yourself, create proteges that you can guide and see their achievements with your eyes.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by The God Himself View Post
    If you just look at the nature, most of the animals are hormone-driven. The cute pink domestic pig becomes the wild boar (they are the same species: sus scrofa), when it goes feral, as in wild environment they start to produce more and more testosterone .
    Cats go frenzy when march comes, due to increased androgens. Yet all human embryos start the journey as females until the androgens start to transform the embryo to a male.
    What makes us different is that we are conscious. We are not solely based on our instincts. But what I really want to point here is that the androgens can really change our reasoning, the way we think and alter our personalities.
    After all, our brain makes us who we are. Our bodies naturally produce steroids and some of them are called neurosteroids. They play crucial role on our mental health and sanity. Deprivation of neurosteroids can lead to depression, memory and cognitive dysfunction, mental fog and many other issues. This is why many of people with hypogonadism go the TRT route: to feel and function better.
    There are many neurotransmitters in human brain, but to name few I can count serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline. These three are members of a family called monoamines that scientists blame their imbalance are responsible of many mental illnesses such as depression and anxiety. As GearHeaded mentioned many times, our brains have both androgen and estrogen receptors. And supraphysiological levels of steroids can play role in up/downregulation of such monoamines.
    My point is that if you have any underlying mental illness or lack enough knowledge about human body and endocrinological systems, you should steer clear of irresponsible use of any AAS unless you know what you're doing really well and conscious.
    I can't talk for all but certainly some of us, including myself, had self-esteem issues in the past (rooting from childhood or teenage years may be) and this is one of implicit reasons we choose AAS to perfect the imperfections we have seen in ourselves. People can't see our personalities but they can definitely see our bodies and how strong we may appear. In such cases, stupid decisions and psychological problems can lead to even worse cases of mental issues. I don't want anyone to destroy their lives, upping the tren may even make things worse in some cases lol.
    In the end this is either a recreational activity/hobby for us to live our lives better or a tool we use to rise on the contest stage. It is up to us to differentiate what we do from addiction. If there is nothing else makes you happy other than AAS, then definitely things are not going well for you. (not targeting anyone in this thread with this sentence)
    TGH,
    We are not driven by hormones but affected by them, of just as much importance, or perhaps moreso (our worlds change fast but maybe that is just me because I am really impulsive, conscientious and neurotic?). Neurotransmitters are just as important as hormones, shorter and more profound versus longer influence and something we can adapt too?
    This doesn't apply to us here but it is interesting.
    Psychologist Jordan Peterson says lobsters help to explain why human hierarchies exist ? do they?
    I'm not sure if that is the best example of Jordan Peterson's thought on serotonin, liberals and conservatives alike hate him. However, he speaks well about dominance hierarchies and serotonin. Serotonin is the happy neurotransmitter, when we are doing well, we have a lot of it, and vice a versa.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obs View Post
    I really cant say what makes me happy.
    Happiness is not really happiness for me.

    Not steroid related.
    My point was my personality and mindframe has always overshadowed any instinctual offset of AAS.

    If a person finds hormones dictating ther actions or lives in any amount, I would suggest they cease them until they are mentally equipped enough to handle their actions.
    Happiness is defined as a temporary state. Joy is defined as a more longer lasting feeling/influence. One should have both and preferably from the same things. OBS, you receive both happiness and joy from your AAS and B-building. Maybe some perspective and or context, provided by a diversity of pursuits (more context/wider viewing angle), would better allow you to enjoy your accomplishments in this particular pursuit?
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    I hear someone say,
    How would you feel if all the sudden you couldn't take steroids anymore? Fear? Sense of loss? That's addiction
    Which is crap. Anything that your body is physically dependant on or it will make you go through depression, hormone changes, etc is going to make you feel that way. Plus, you spend how many years and how much money towards a goal which is now unobtainable? Take away someone's dreams and that will definitely cause a sense of loss
    I do agree there is a correlation between gear and addiction, but I've been / am (technically you always are and you are only in recovery not ever actually "all better") a true addict , and this is nowhere near comparable. The instant gratification just isn't there for it to be. Or maybe I just haven't pinned enough tren base at one time....
    Brother, does this not speak to the point of the perils of being singularly focused?
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    I'm on a very mild cycle right now. my main injection days are Saturday and Weds,, I also do a daily injection of a SARM in my biceps daily,, but thats not much. every Saturday and weds I break open an ampule of test (I've added a little bit of EQ to that as well). I totally look forward to these days.

    just because I look forward to these days and doing these injections , does that mean I'm addicted ?

    I don't think so.. I'm just trying to optimize my results and performance. its like eating quality and nutritious food. if I look forward to a meal that I know is going to fuel my performance and better me , does that mean I'm addicted to food ? no I don't think so


    I started a few different cycles this summer, but pulled the plug like 2 weeks in knowing my diet and training were not on point because of other shit going on. If I was an 'addict' I'd probably of went though with the cycles anyhow . just like an alcoholic,, he's not going to have half a beer and say, "nah I'm good" , no he's going to have the whole beer and 12 more.

    I've had like 9 different surgeries and major life altering injuries and been bed ridden for a year. I could not function without hardcore narcotic pain pills. I couldn't face a day without them. then when my health got better and pain subsided some,, physically my body still had to have those pills otherwise it would rebel against me. thats a 'real' addiction. a physical addiction where you can't just start and stop and stop anytime you want.

    I have and can stop AAS use at anytime.. There is no physical addiction. though mentally, just like training and a quality diet, I know that AAS can enhance my results and quality of life. but heck, even though I make ZERO natty test, I've even came off of Test and all AAS for 6 months just for the hell of it.


    of course anything can become an 'addiction' - but there is a world of difference , imo, from a physical dependency addiction (where you could actually die from stopping cold turkey) and a basic 'mental' addiction to something you like

    note- of course there are plenty of physiological things with AAS use. I'm not saying its only mental. but just because one day you decide to stop using AAS cold turkey, your not going to go into shock and die (which can happen with other highly addictive drugs)
    No, it has nothing to do with addiction. Your happiness with regard to fulfilling your short term goals is realized by meeting that goal. This is the difference between happiness and joy.
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    For me, the most enticing aspect of AAS is that I know I am advancing my goals directly. I feel that by meeting my short term goals with my use I know right away, I am on the path, in this endeavor, to self-fulfillment. I know immediately that I have done a good job or where I can improve. That is the "addiction." The bigger puzzle is to translate that into meeting other goals that, on a day to day, do not provide the knowledge that i am advancing and moving forward in my life. I. E., THE LONG GAME.
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    It is a fucking program. Like being in the Marines except you do the research, you do the learning, you create your program and follow it. Very rewarding. But, life is a program. How do we take this ability to do something other people wouldn't do, question yet admire, and turn that into more than just this? It is possible. This takes discipline. Life takes discipline. Most people accomplish little, why? IDK, and I don't know why I don't have more. I still question everything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    OBS, you are a very industrious individual. AAS are fine, but perhaps you should diversify. The ability to receive reward from other sources provides a greater level of fulfillment. You are martial, perhaps in addition to this pursuit (AAS) you may look into other ways of suited to a man with an aggressive nature. MMA, volunteer fireman..something like that. Make it something social, if that doesn't suit you, look to art in order to share and take from the world. Isn't that what you are doing here?
    I diversified.
    I added stump grinding and bulk topsoil delivery and emplacement this year.
    I work alone though:,(

    Its always been money.
    Then bodybuilding was my diversification and I saw money as getting in the way of it.

    Now balancing the two I lost all interest in pretty much everything.

    Really like your writing style by the way. You could authour one hell of a good book.
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    You guys may want to see these studies too, regarding the permanent effects of nandrolone on neurotransmitters:

    The effect of sub-chronic nandrolone decanoate treatment on dopaminergic and serotonergic neuronal systems in the brains of rats.

    The anabolic-androgenic steroid nandrolone decanoate affects the density of dopamine receptors in the male rat brain.

    The Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on the Central Nervous System (especially this one, pretty detailed)

    I want to point out that I am not justfying, not saying steroids cause or not cause addiction etc, just enjoy to discuss scientific aspects of AAS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    note- of course there are plenty of physiological things with AAS use. I'm not saying its only mental. but just because one day you decide to stop using AAS cold turkey, your not going to go into shock and die (which can happen with other highly addictive drugs)
    I agree. My post wasn't actually about addiction but about how altering can AAS be on our brain.
    I think what you mean here is steroids can be addictive (mental) but are not causing any dependence (which is physiological). I agree with that but quitting AAS cold turkey can definitely have significant psychological outcomes:
    Effects of withdrawal from anabolic androgenic steroids on aggression in adult male rats.


    This is why AAS are for adults not teenagers, you would not want to ruin yourself at an important point of your life.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by The God Himself View Post
    .
    The Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on the Central Nervous System (especially this one, pretty detailed)
    the study authors lose some credibility when they say that Deca is "banned by professional sport organizations and is an illegal drug" . this is not true. they make it sound like cocaine, which is an actual illegal drug. Deca on the other hand is perfectly legal, you just need a prescription for it (and in a majority of other countries its legal and you don't even need the script) I have gotten a doctor to prescribe me deca right from the pharmacy. doctors don't prescribe "illegal drugs". also , deca is only 'banned' from "some" sports organizations,, the IFBB and NPC not being one of them.

    if your going to publish a study, simple little facts like this should at least be accurate. if you can't get even the most simple of shit right, then I'm sure the bigger issues in the study are also flawed and wrong.
    again, you lose all credibility in publishing a study if you can't even get the simplest of things right.
    Last edited by GearHeaded; 09-05-2019 at 07:23 AM.

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    It's ironic that I am about to begin a nandrolone cycle and posting studies about effects of nandrolone, yet I won't be a pussy (don't worry Obs, lol) and do it anyway.
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  31. #31
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    one thing to keep in mind,, the difference between AAS and mind altering addictive drugs. is that your body has a physiological 'need' for a lot of the things that AAS provide . you body needs androgens, estrogen, and anabolic up-regulation, to function properly.. just like it needs food and water.
    your body does not have a real physiological 'need' for cocaine, alcohol, etc..

    now I'm not saying that tren and deca are naturally occurring hormones. I'm just saying that the way they work in the body and the information they transcribe to cells is something we've had in nature since the day we were born. its not a transcription of 'foreign information',, up regulation of protein synthesis via hormonal pathways and AR binding is completely a natural process for us .. however, alcohol replacing dopamine in the brain is not a naturally occurring process,, its an introduction of something 'foreign'


    now granite, AAS allows us to do these things to a supraphysioligical level that is not quite "natural"-- my only point is that the things that are up regulating by using AAS are natural processes the body has been accustomed to since day one (thats how we grew from being a 7 pound baby to a 200 pound man)

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    the study authors lose some credibility when they say that Deca is "banned by professional sport organizations and is an illegal drug" . this is not true. they make it sound like cocaine, which is an actual illegal drug. Deca on the other hand is perfectly legal, you just need a prescription for it (and in a majority of other countries its legal and you don't even need the script) I have gotten a doctor to prescribe me deca right from the pharmacy. doctors don't prescribe "illegal drugs". also , deca is only 'banned' from "some" sports organizations,, the IFBB and NPC not being one of them.

    if your going to publish a study, simple little facts like this should at least be accurate. if you can't get even the most simple of shit right, then I'm sure the bigger issues in the study are also flawed and wrong.
    again, you lose all credibility in publishing a study if you can't even get the simplest of things right.
    I have read that there are some ways to assess the reliability and accuracy of a study, which I have no idea about. It is pretty damn hard to know when not to trust science.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by The God Himself View Post
    It's ironic that I am about to begin a nandrolone cycle and posting studies about effects of nandrolone, yet I won't be a pussy (don't worry Obs, lol) and do it anyway.
    you never know,, the brain alteration that might take place from the nandrolone could end up being a positive one

    just like some people take a 'trip' on mushrooms and end up having a positive life altering experience,, now sure the shrooms fucked with their brain, but it was not necessarily a bad thing
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The God Himself View Post
    I have read that there are some ways to assess the reliability and accuracy of a study, which I have no idea about. It is pretty damn hard to know when not to trust science.
    I'm sure the study is useful.. I don't discredit it. it just irks me when "professional" people state such un informed shit,, basically comparing deca (a medication that has saved lives) to an illegal recreational highly abused drug (when its not at all)
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    just to clarify more on my post 31

    AAS generally up regulate and speed up NATURALLY occurring processes in the body.. things our body is already used to and does.

    I'll just use a random number to make a point -- lets say the average person has a protein turnover rate of 100. the body is naturally already used to protein synthesis. now lets say you take AAS and this rate triples to 300. your only up regulating something your body is already accustomed to to begin with.
    its a natural thing that is occurring, even though it may be at an advanced and "un natural" pace.

    this is not quite so with other addictive and mind altering drugs. if you drink alcohol and that replaces dopamine in your brain to make you 'feel good' , that is a foreign substance and a foreign feeling that does not happen naturally .


    can AAS alter the brain ? sure.. but I think society has a whole host of other things that are fucking our brains up way worse then AAS ..

    its funny. your family and friends might find out you take steroids and your suddenly a 'criminal' or bad person.. yet they all go out and binge drink and party every weekend.
    Lol , whats worse for you. binge drinking and partying every weekend, or up regulating protein synthesis to a high level

    your average Joe blow person does way more shit to F up their brain just on a weekly normal basis then an AAS user probably does
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    you never know,, the brain alteration that might take place from the nandrolone could end up being a positive one

    just like some people take a 'trip' on mushrooms and end up having a positive life altering experience,, now sure the shrooms fucked with their brain, but it was not necessarily a bad thing
    Hope it happens that way, that would be motivational
    The studies are mostly done on rats or mice. There are millions of people doing steroids on earth and am sure thousands of them would be willing to participate in such study. Heck, even we pay for our own AAS. We need some more human studies.

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    its completely acceptable for a 25 year old guy to go out to the clubs every weekend and binge drink and get totally smashed and high and really F his brain up ,, in fact society glorifies it.
    but when that same guy stops doing that, trains every day, eats healthy and starts using AAS to enhance his physique, all the sudden he is a criminal illicit illegal drug user. he's definitely going to mess himself up and get hurt. his family and friends will be concerned for his life and health , lol .
    society has it ass backwards imo
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    its completely acceptable for a 25 year old guy to go out to the clubs every weekend and binge drink and get totally smashed and high and really F his brain up ,, in fact society glorifies it.
    but when that same guy stops doing that, trains every day, eats healthy and starts using AAS to enhance his physique, all the sudden he is a criminal illicit illegal drug user. he's definitely going to mess himself up and get hurt. his family and friends will be concerned for his life and health , lol .
    society has it ass backwards imo
    Let it stay that way, I enjoy looking and being different
    Fuck society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    you never know,, the brain alteration that might take place from the nandrolone could end up being a positive one

    just like some people take a 'trip' on mushrooms and end up having a positive life altering experience,, now sure the shrooms fucked with their brain, but it was not necessarily a bad thing
    Done

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    you never know,, the brain alteration that might take place from the nandrolone could end up being a positive one

    just like some people take a 'trip' on mushrooms and end up having a positive life altering experience,, now sure the shrooms fucked with their brain, but it was not necessarily a bad thing
    So how much shrooms should be added into cycle?

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