Poll - who has gotten better gains from dropping AI usage

[GearHeaded]

hopefully this shows up as a poll

I'm curious to know where you guys fall

1 - I've lowered or dropped my AI usage and I've noticed better gains

2 - I've lowered or dropped my AI usage and I haven't noticed anything better

3 - I'm afraid of estrogen and not about to experiment running a cycle without an AI



now I know of at least 10 of you guys that I've personally worked with that fall into category 1 and I've first hand seen your physiques transform and take off since dropping AI usage.
for example..

Charger, aren't you up about 40 pounds heavier and way bigger and more jacked then you were when you were running AI's (oh yeah, and have two 1st place shows under your belt now)

Jayd, up about 30 pounds in 8 months and has ton more muscularity, roundness and shape, and is still lean with abs.. 1500mg of Test with no AI (who would of guessed)

Prox, making quality gains and putting on quality tissue at his age is awesome ! pulled all AI usage from TRT protocol and cycles he's ran

Balance, running TRT only and had an AI with that protocol .. bumped up to 1000mg of test per week and dropped AI use all together , add a little bit of Tren and Mast,, and he's 15+ pounds heavier and super lean. thats all quality muscle he has put on

[charger69]

hopefully this shows up as a poll

I'm curious to know where you guys fall

1 - I've lowered or dropped my AI usage and I've noticed better gains

2 - I've lowered or dropped my AI usage and I haven't noticed anything better

3 - I'm afraid of estrogen and not about to experiment running a cycle without an AI



now I know of at least 10 of you guys that I've personally worked with that fall into category 1 and I've first hand seen your physiques transform and take off since dropping AI usage.
for example..

Charger, aren't you up about 40 pounds heavier and way bigger and more jacked then you were when you were running AI's (oh yeah, and have two 1st place shows under your belt now)

Jays, up about 30 pounds in 8 months and has ton more muscularity, roundness and shape, and is still lean with abs.. 1500mg of Test with no AI (who would of guessed)

Prox, making quality gains and putting on quality tissue at his age is awesome ! pulled all AI usage from TRT protocol and cycles he's ran

Balance, running TRT only and had an AI with that protocol .. bumped up to 1000mg of test per week and dropped AI use all together , add a little bit of Tren and Mast,, and he's 15+ pounds heavier and super lean. thats all quality muscle he has put on

In my case, you are correct.
NOTE: this is not showing up as a poll- or maybe just the old man can’t figure out how to vote. LOL


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[GearHeaded]

In my case, you are correct.
NOTE: this is not showing up as a poll- or maybe just the old man can’t figure out how to vote. LOL

yep dropping the AI , and adding in insulin ,,combined with your dedication and work ethic turned you into a monster.

I should note ,, insulin and estrogen are synergistic . when both are elevated then anabolic mechanisms are turned on and enhanced

[HoldMyBeer]

Too scared. My dick stopped working when I tried it. Now I just run TrT + gear that doesnt aromatize into estrogen

[The God Himself]

Too scared. My dick stopped working when I tried it. Now I just run TrT + gear that doesnt aromatize into estrogen

Same for me, gyno and ED are things that happen when I drop AI. Nolva helps with gyno but it doesn’t solve ED. May be I am doing something wrong idk.
Even on 100 mg T and 500 iu hCG a week, I have to use an AI because hCG skyrockets my E2 even in lower doses.

[Ashop]

With the RIGHT dosage of AI I look better and feel better and I don't think my gains are hindered at all.

[GearHeaded]

Same for me, gyno and ED are things that happen when I drop AI. Nolva helps with gyno but it doesn’t solve ED. May be I am doing something wrong idk.
Even on 100 mg T and 500 iu hCG a week, I have to use an AI because hCG skyrockets my E2 even in lower doses.

have you ever tried something like dropping AI all together, but then running AAS that have anti estrogen aspects to them at high dosages..
so for example. run only 100mg of test per week, but then run 800mg of Primo and 600mg of Masteron

thats 1500mg of gear per week, which isn't all that high but surely such a cycle wouldn't require an AI (the primo and mast will actually be driving E levels down themselves).. rather then running a traditional 500-1000mg of test on cycle (then require an AI) with one added anabolic .

[GearHeaded]

With the RIGHT dosage of AI I look better and feel better and I don't think my gains are hindered at all.

is the "right dosage" of an AI , while blasting and on cycle , a dosage that puts your estrogen in normal range ?

how do you know thats actually a "right dosage" .. if your on a heavy cycle and your androgen levels are 20x normal , why do you think you'd need to keep your E levels at 0x normal range ?

especially when you consider the evidence that when androgen levels are sky high, estrogen levels should follow, and when they do follow they provide a lot more anabolic mechanisms of action in the body.


the "normal range" of estrogen as shown on blood work is for "normal people" ,, ie, your 70 year old neighbor who does not lift let alone take steroids. that range does not apply to us especially when we are on cycle and upregulating hormones and so many other processes in the body.


edit - I'm all for keeping estrogen in 'normal range' when off cycle when we are actually 'normal' and that range fits us . but if your blasting 3 grams of gear and your androgen levels are off the charts,, keeping estrogen in "normal range" is highly likely to be counter productive to the anabolic properties your trying to enhance by being on cycle to begin with (unless your E sensitive and you don't have a choice)

[charger69]

In my case, you are correct.
NOTE: this is not showing up as a poll- or maybe just the old man can’t figure out how to vote. LOL


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Actually, 3 first place finishes but who’s counting. LOL


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[Windex]

Should include an option if I don't use an AI but don't run estrogenic compounds.

[GearHeaded]

Should include an option if I don't use an AI but don't run estrogenic compounds.

well if you had previously tried running AI in the past,, then switched to dropping AI's and running non estrogenic compounds and gotten better gains,, technically that would put you in option 1

[Jayd85]

Number 1 here, as you noted above. No AI has been a game changer for me.

[balance]

hopefully this shows up as a poll

I'm curious to know where you guys fall

1 - I've lowered or dropped my AI usage and I've noticed better gains

2 - I've lowered or dropped my AI usage and I haven't noticed anything better

3 - I'm afraid of estrogen and not about to experiment running a cycle without an AI



now I know of at least 10 of you guys that I've personally worked with that fall into category 1 and I've first hand seen your physiques transform and take off since dropping AI usage.
for example..

Charger, aren't you up about 40 pounds heavier and way bigger and more jacked then you were when you were running AI's (oh yeah, and have two 1st place shows under your belt now)

Jayd, up about 30 pounds in 8 months and has ton more muscularity, roundness and shape, and is still lean with abs.. 1500mg of Test with no AI (who would of guessed)

Prox, making quality gains and putting on quality tissue at his age is awesome ! pulled all AI usage from TRT protocol and cycles he's ran

Balance, running TRT only and had an AI with that protocol .. bumped up to 1000mg of test per week and dropped AI use all together , add a little bit of Tren and Mast,, and he's 15+ pounds heavier and super lean. thats all quality muscle he has put on

I’m definitely in the first group as GH mentioned. As mentioned I began trt with a clinic that had an ai in the protocol right from the get go. I did see some positive results from just getting my T into the normal range. The results plateaued after a few months and I was looking to run a cycle, was going to go the standard forum recommend cycle 500mg test, ai, and hcg. Fortunately I had the great benefit of working with GH and he helped me see the shortcomings of running an ai and such a meager amount of test (especially since I was coming from running trt, and my body was already acclimated to exogenous test). After extensive consultation I ran a first cycle with several different compounds that were rotated through different phases in an attempt to maximize the results. Long story short it worked.

I can understand mens fear of not wanting to grow breast but running an ai unnecessarily is far from ideal. Yes you are leaving gains on the table but that’s not the only issue at hand. Some very commonly used ai products can have many other deleterious health effects.

Also worth mentioning here after cycling with no AI my trt protocol (200mg test weekly) changed. I stopped using the ai during my trt/cruise and it appears according to my lab work my body has adapted somewhat to seeing test and does not have my E2 highl (only mildly elevated). Considering the downsides to running an ai I prefer to leave it out currently.


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[Obs]

is the "right dosage" of an AI , while blasting and on cycle , a dosage that puts your estrogen in normal range ?

how do you know thats actually a "right dosage" .. if your on a heavy cycle and your androgen levels are 20x normal , why do you think you'd need to keep your E levels at 0x normal range ?

especially when you consider the evidence that when androgen levels are sky high, estrogen levels should follow, and when they do follow they provide a lot more anabolic mechanisms of action in the body.


the "normal range" of estrogen as shown on blood work is for "normal people" ,, ie, your 70 year old neighbor who does not lift let alone take steroids. that range does not apply to us especially when we are on cycle and upregulating hormones and so many other processes in the body.


edit - I'm all for keeping estrogen in 'normal range' when off cycle when we are actually 'normal' and that range fits us . but if your blasting 3 grams of gear and your androgen levels are off the charts,, keeping estrogen in "normal range" is highly likely to be counter productive to the anabolic properties your trying to enhance by being on cycle to begin with (unless your E sensitive and you don't have a choice)

He never responds to a question on here but once in a blue moon.
Just kinda spouts the old status quo and floats along.
Part of the reason I've no respect for him.

If he responds it will be about the third time here in history.

[Family_guy]

He never responds to a question on here but once in a blue moon.
Just kinda spouts the old status quo and floats along.
Part of the reason I've no respect for him.

If he responds it will be about the third time here in history.

Lol!

[Family_guy]

Well I’m actually in a category you didn’t list. I’m group 4-lucky enough to have trusted GH from the start and never ran an AI at all. I figured especially since I’ve always been pretty lean I wouldn’t have issues with aromatizimg too much.(although from what I’ve read gyno is really totally genetic and an AI won’t really change that at all. Either your predisposed or not) I got up to 1000mg of test which seemed like a dose I would never actually do cuz that seemed like a crazy amount lol. But ran NO AI for the entire 6 month cycle and I’m glad I didn’t. I don’t think I will ever use one

[Obs]

Not changing the subject but the porn forum passed vote over a year ago...


Where is it?

[charger69]

Not changing the subject but the porn forum passed vote over a year ago...


Where is it?

I’m here! Lol


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[Dgs59]

Addictive to AI on cycles, read through the discussion few days ago, dropped AI completely and suddenly, felt an extra kick in energy (10% more) but it's too early to tell if getting better gains, can tell in few more weeks, no signs of high estrogen so far, no impact on sex drive (still good), gonna do a blood test next week sometime, will show a clear picture.

[balance]

Could be placebo but I felt a noticeable improvement in my joints after dropping ai.


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[Windex]

All someone has to do is take a few minutes to read the history of why AI's were created. Then spend a few minutes reading the pharmacology of how it interacts in the male body.

Completely toxic.

[gjoney_b]

I did with and without an AI 500mg of test , without an AI/adex i would go up in weight every week and blew up from water weight my face was like a balloon, after that same cycle with adex .5 twice a week minimal bloating , I also tried 1g of test and had to use like .5 adex EOD first 2-3 weeks my heart felt at night like as if ive taken clen but after that i got crazy pumps from test alone nothing else i guess from all that water weight being held .
OT if i could id never use AI but high estrogen , boldenone and clen if id mix those 3 id be like a walking schizophren .. aggressive, shaking and crazy anxiety

[Family_guy]

I did with and without an AI 500mg of test , without an AI/adex i would go up in weight every week and blew up from water weight my face was like a balloon, after that same cycle with adex .5 twice a week minimal bloating , I also tried 1g of test and had to use like .5 adex EOD first 2-3 weeks my heart felt at night like as if ive taken clen but after that i got crazy pumps from test alone nothing else i guess from all that water weight being held .
OT if i could id never use AI but high estrogen , boldenone and clen if id mix those 3 id be like a walking schizophren .. aggressive, shaking and crazy anxiety

So other than the water retention/bloat what side effects does having high E2 cause you?

[GearHeaded]

I did with and without an AI 500mg of test , without an AI/adex i would go up in weight every week and blew up from water weight my face was like a balloon, after that same cycle with adex .5 twice a week minimal bloating , I also tried 1g of test and had to use like .5 adex EOD first 2-3 weeks my heart felt at night like as if ive taken clen but after that i got crazy pumps from test alone nothing else i guess from all that water weight being held .
OT if i could id never use AI but high estrogen , boldenone and clen if id mix those 3 id be like a walking schizophren .. aggressive, shaking and crazy anxiety

years ago when I started TRT and then running mainly Test based cycles ,, I'd have similar effects. bloating, water retention , puffy face, etc.. and so I'd run some AI to counter the high e2 . however, after a period of time, based mainly out of pure convenience (I ran out of AI and didn't buy more) I just kept running test at 500-1000mg and let my E elevate and just not give a shit. eventually those side effects went away. I'm no longer sensitive to high E at all . I can run 2000mg of test per week with no AI and get no high E2 sides like bloat, puffy face, water retention. my body has adapted. I think too many guys rely and depend on AI's when on cycle and they never get to the point of adapting to all the positive benefits that can be had from high E while on cycle.

[RoxRunner]

I can't say that I've noticed a difference the way you explain it but I'm going to track it next cycle. My TRT is twice a year sub-Q pellets so I run an AI for 6-8 weeks after insertion. I did this when my e2 got really high. Personally I didn't feel any different but it was a concern for my doc. I DO however, have bad sides when I forget to stop taking the AI and get into week 10-12. I turn into an emotional crabby asshole. And my junk has problems working right.... I'd prefer to keep my e2 high.

[GearHeaded]

I can't say that I've noticed a difference the way you explain it but I'm going to track it next cycle. My TRT is twice a year sub-Q pellets so I run an AI for 6-8 weeks after insertion. I did this when my e2 got really high. Personally I didn't feel any different but it was a concern for my doc. I DO however, have bad sides when I forget to stop taking the AI and get into week 10-12. I turn into an emotional crabby asshole. And my junk has problems working right.... I'd prefer to keep my e2 high.

this post should shed some light . there is a big difference between managing E on TRT and managing E on a blast and heavy AAS cycle ..

your doc was concerned about high E , but that was when on NORMAL levels of androgens. but your doc would probably be as equally concerned if your blood work showed test/androgen levels at 20,000 ng/dl as well .

but if you were on a heavy AAS blast, 20,000 is what your after . if you levels were 'normal' then you'd think your gear was fake .

well same goes for estrogen . you don't have to run high E levels year round. save that for you blasts.. if androgen levels are 20x normal cause your blasting gear, its no biggy if estrogen levels are also 20x normal .
if your on TRT though, and your androgen levels are just in normal range, but E levels are way above normal. yes that can be an issue.


so just understand the difference guys. its all context dependent.

[zigzagzig]

I've just passed the third week mark of a Test E 600mg/week + HGH 2 IU/ work out days. I had put the Arimidex to the side to try to maximize the gains. So far, I'm 11lbs heavier and I added half an inch to my biceps. Unfortunately, this morning my nipples started to feel too sensitive and a bit puffy. I got scared and I had to run to the Arimidex, 0.20mg.
Any thoughts?

[Obs]

I've just passed the third week mark of a Test E 600mg/week + HGH 2 IU/ work out days. I had put the Arimidex to the side to try to maximize the gains. So far, I'm 11lbs heavier and I added half an inch to my biceps. Unfortunately, this morning my nipples started to feel too sensitive and a bit puffy. I got scared and I had to run to the Arimidex, 0.20mg.
Any thoughts?

Nolva 10 mg every day.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

I've just passed the third week mark of a Test E 600mg/week + HGH 2 IU/ work out days. I had put the Arimidex to the side to try to maximize the gains. So far, I'm 11lbs heavier and I added half an inch to my biceps. Unfortunately, this morning my nipples started to feel too sensitive and a bit puffy. I got scared and I had to run to the Arimidex, 0.20mg.
Any thoughts?

Puffy nips, sore nips, itchy nips, burning nips are all just signs of hormone fluctuations. Gyno is lumps. You won’t miss them. AND quit playing with your nipples all the time trying to find lumps. You’re making them more sensitive.

Don’t any of y’all have wives or girlfriends that bitch about their nipples itching or burning when they’re on their period or the like?

[Obs]

Puffy nips, sore nips, itchy nips, burning nips are all just signs of hormone fluctuations. Gyno is lumps. You won’t miss them. AND quit playing with your nipples all the time trying to find lumps. You’re making them more sensitive.

Don’t any of y’all have wives or girlfriends that bitch about their nipples itching or burning when they’re on their period or the like?

Will a baby squirrel nursing my nipple make it more sensitive?

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Will a baby squirrel nursing my nipple make it more sensitive?

No, it will toughen them up. Probably going to turn that baby squirrel into Bane though.

[Obs]

No, it will toughen them up. Probably going to turn that baby squirrel into Bane though.

Attachment 177197

[Obs]

I dont see how these guys running AI and low doses can feed their squirrels. Weirdos.

[Family_guy]

I dont see how these guys running AI and low doses can feed their squirrels. Weirdos.

Lmao! Another classic line!