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Thread: Lean bulk cycle advice

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    JohnnyV85's Avatar
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    Lean bulk cycle advice

    34 years old
    6'3 215lbs 13%bf
    Ive done 1 test only cycle earlier this year, went on pct, hated it, jumped on trt. Doing 50mg eod of test e.

    Looking to do a 16 week lean bulk as follows...

    M/W/F
    Test E .5ml (125mg)
    Eq .5ml (125mg)
    Npp .5ml (50mg)

    Proviron 25mg 2x daily
    Letro 2.5mg Wednesdays
    Caber .5mg Tues/Thurs

    HGH 2iu daily

    Open to any feedback please.

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    cylon357's Avatar
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    Do you have your diet and routine planned out? That can separate 'lean' from 'pudgy'.

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    Ugly cycle do not take that letro. Seems like you lack the knowledge to be cycling. The caber is unecessary too. Just ugly cycle altogether.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    34 years old
    6'3 215lbs 13%bf
    Ive done 1 test only cycle earlier this year, went on pct, hated it, jumped on trt. Doing 50mg eod of test e.

    Looking to do a 16 week lean bulk as follows...

    M/W/F
    Test E .5ml (125mg)
    Eq .5ml (125mg)
    Npp .5ml (50mg)

    Proviron 25mg 2x daily
    Letro 2.5mg Wednesdays
    Caber .5mg Tues/Thurs

    HGH 2iu daily

    Open to any feedback please.

    Leave the Letro out unless you actually start to get gyno, but you won’t because you’re only taking 375mg of test a week, and the EQ will start to bring your estrogen levels down over time anyway. Also I’d have the caber on hand, but I doubt you’ll have any need for it. I’d crank the NPP up too. 50mg isn’t really going to do anything. It would also be good to inject that everyday, or every other day at the longest. If you want to stuck to 3 days a week grab a longer Esther. Phenylpropionate (NPP) and Deconate (Deca ) are the most common, but if you shop around nandrolone really comes in every Esther.

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    GearHeaded's Avatar
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    the use of letro, caber, and proviron is completely not necessary for this cycle . test, eq, and npp, all work great together though
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    Cycle is all over the place.

    Letro will chemically castrate you with your proposed cycle. NPp is an EOD injection.

    2IU of HGh is too low in my opinion
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    34 years old
    6'3 215lbs 13%bf
    Ive done 1 test only cycle earlier this year, went on pct, hated it, jumped on trt. Doing 50mg eod of test e.

    Looking to do a 16 week lean bulk as follows...

    Every Other Day
    Test E - 125mg
    Eq - 250mg
    NPP - 100mg

    Mast prop - On Hand
    Letro - On Hand
    Caber - On Hand

    HGH 3-4ius daily

    Open to any feedback please.
    i fixed it for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by cylon357 View Post
    Do you have your diet and routine planned out? That can separate 'lean' from 'pudgy'.
    500 cal surplus and training body parts 2x weekly with cardio 3x a week

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    i fixed it for you
    Can I go with aromasin instead of letro?

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    HoldMyBeer is online now Productive Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    500 cal surplus and training body parts 2x weekly with cardio 3x a week
    I think you have the cardio and lifting backwards brother

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    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    I think you have the cardio and lifting backwards brother
    Lol do I? So 3x a week per body part and cardio twice?

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    Lean bulk cycle advice

    6’3” @215 i would focus on adding mass and not stress so much on it being “lean”. Lift hard as much as your cns allows and eat eat eat. Also I would run test prop a little under maximum you know you can handle without an ai, then add eq and/or npp on top. If you run into issues just lower the aromatizing compound (test prop) by running the short ester test prop you can make faster adjustments on the fly if issues arise. I’m a noob so take my input with a grain of salt, but when running something that can cause issues using a short ester seams like a way to bail on things if something is not as you like.

    Also outside of test, eq, and npp I really think the rest of your other auxiliary items hgh, caber, ai etc are likely unnecessary especially if your already at such low percent body fat.

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    Last edited by balance; 09-14-2019 at 06:17 PM.

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    I wouldn't be using gear lifting twice per week,

    To me that's like buying a ferrari just to drive to the grocery store.

    Sounds like you need to sort out the basics first - training, diet, sleep, supplements.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    500 cal surplus and training body parts 2x weekly with cardio 3x a week
    Do you mean training each body part twice a week, like weights 4 days a week and cardio 3x weekly or lifting weights twice?

    And what do you plan on for cardio? LISS or something more intense?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    Can I go with aromasin instead of letro?
    I wouldn’t use either, but If you’re going to keep one on hand, keep the aromasin .
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    Lol do I? So 3x a week per body part and cardio twice?
    mAh bad, didn't see the per body part part
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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    6’3” @215 i would focus on adding mass and not stress so much on it being “lean”. Lift hard as much as your cns allows and eat eat eat. Also I would run test prop a little under maximum you know you can handle without an ai, then add eq and/or npp on top. If you run into issues just lower the aromatizing compound (test prop) by running the short ester test prop you can make faster adjustments on the fly if issues arise. I’m a noob so take my input with a grain of salt, but when running something that can cause issues using a short ester seams like a way to bail on things if something is not as you like.

    Also outside of test, eq, and npp I really think the rest of your other auxiliary items hgh, caber, ai etc are likely unnecessary especially if your already at such low percent body fat.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I hear what youre saying. Thanks for the input. My main concern for doing cardio isnt so much to be leaner but because I thought it would help manage cholesterol on top of having a clean diet. Im not a big fan of cardio to begin with so if twice a week is sufficient Im good with that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    I wouldn't be using gear lifting twice per week,

    To me that's like buying a ferrari just to drive to the grocery store.

    Sounds like you need to sort out the basics first - training, diet, sleep, supplements.
    Ill be lifting 6 days a week... I meant each body part twice

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    Quote Originally Posted by cylon357 View Post
    Do you mean training each body part twice a week, like weights 4 days a week and cardio 3x weekly or lifting weights twice?

    And what do you plan on for cardio? LISS or something more intense?
    Yeah 6 day split and LISS on half those days
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    Have sex for cardio, you can do it 11 times per week instead of your 2 now. It will increase dopamine and seratonin. That will lead to better sleep cycles which leads to more HGH production.

    Sex = free HGH, except you do the jabbing with your needle instead of being jabbed by a needle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    Have sex for cardio, you can do it 11 times per week instead of your 2 now. It will increase dopamine and seratonin. That will lead to better sleep cycles which leads to more HGH production.

    Sex = free HGH, except you do the jabbing with your needle instead of being jabbed by a needle.
    lol great point

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    i fixed it for you
    Im predisposed to MPB... even with just the test only cycle i ran earlier this year my hairline thinned significantly. What can be done to try and minimize that side effect. I also got some med/mild bacne... what can you suggest to avoid these sides?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    Im predisposed to MPB... even with just the test only cycle i ran earlier this year my hairline thinned significantly. What can be done to try and minimize that side effect. I also got some med/mild bacne... what can you suggest to avoid these sides?

    Those are both DHT side effects.

    You could try a dht blocker like finasteride or dutasteride.

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    HoldMyBeer is online now Productive Member
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    Is anyone else annoyed by the term "lean bulk?"
    Everyone wants to bulk and keep fat gain to a minimum. Else it's called "dirty bulk."
    i.e. it's bulk or dirty bulk. "Lean bulk" is redundant
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    Is anyone else annoyed by the term "lean bulk?"
    Everyone wants to bulk and keep fat gain to a minimum. Else it's called "dirty bulk."
    i.e. it's bulk or dirty bulk. "Lean bulk" is redundant
    You have to try to find a healthy medium that won’t make you insane at the same time. Force feeding 12 boiled chicken breasts everyday BLOWS. On the other side of that if you eat a quart of ice cream everyday and gain 30 pounds of fat, because you didn’t do any cardio... now you have to deal with that.

    Balance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoldMyBeer View Post
    Is anyone else annoyed by the term "lean bulk?"
    Everyone wants to bulk and keep fat gain to a minimum. Else it's called "dirty bulk."
    i.e. it's bulk or dirty bulk. "Lean bulk" is redundant
    this is just 'bro terms' anyhow .. in educational literature and sports sciences its simply referred to as a "Massing Phase" . sports science doesn't really distinguish between a 'lean' massing phase (thats a contradiction in terms actually) or a 'dirty' massing phase.

    a massing phase is simply being in a hyper caloric state within a given training block . a cutting phase is simply being in a hypo caloric state within a given training block
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    Those are both DHT side effects.

    You could try a dht blocker like finasteride or dutasteride.
    Both those have some shitty side effects lol, any other alternativese?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    Both those have some shitty side effects lol, any other alternativese?
    don't run compounds that convert to DHT or significantly elevate DHT or are extremely androgenic . you said all you ran was a test only cycle, well test is the compound that converts to DHT the most.

    if hairline is your biggest concern, sticking with things like Deca /Npp , EQ, Dbol , Tbol , is going to be your best bet, as they have little effect on DHT

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    Both those have some shitty side effects lol, any other alternativese?
    Shave your head. Worked for the Rock
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    balance is offline Associate Member
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    Just wondering isn’t it easier to “lean” bulk (sorry I know it’s an abused term but bulk with minimal fat gain) with a higher androgen load which usually means higher levels of dht?


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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Just wondering isn’t it easier to “lean” bulk (sorry I know it’s an abused term but bulk with minimal fat gain) with a higher androgen load which usually means higher levels of dht?
    well you could lean bulk quite nicely on a 1000mg deca only cycle if you wanted (and deca is an anti-androgen when ran alone and DHT levels will fall off).

    it depends on a lot of different variables.. lean bulking on a high androgen load cycle will keep you leaner (because high androgen load generally increases your TDEE) , but then you just have to eat more cals for the bulking aspect of your 'lean bulk' (kinda why thats a contradiction in terms) .

    the higher androgen load bulk will however provide you with more immediate 'cosmetic' effects . a drier look, more definition, with muscle fullness (if your in cal surplus). BUT you may not necessarily be adding on as much long term quality muscle tissue as you would if you bulked with more anabolic and 'wet' based AAS.. (note -- DHT is NOT anabolic in muscle tissue)

    the most ideal is to have a good combo of both androgen and anabolic load, enough estrogen as well , and/or run that in different phases over the duration of your bulk.. with added growth factors. get both the cosmetic effects and the solid muscle tissue gains
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    don't run compounds that convert to DHT or significantly elevate DHT or are extremely androgenic . you said all you ran was a test only cycle, well test is the compound that converts to DHT the most.

    if hairline is your biggest concern, sticking with things like Deca/Npp , EQ, Dbol, Tbol , is going to be your best bet, as they have little effect on DHT
    So would you suggest keeping test at TRT dosage and then just adding the npp and eq? or is there something else i should add? ive read deca will shut me down immediately, will npp do the same? not trying to cause problems with my gf in the bedroom lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    So would you suggest keeping test at TRT dosage and then just adding the npp and eq? or is there something else i should add? ive read deca will shut me down immediately, will npp do the same? not trying to cause problems with my gf in the bedroom lol
    Natural testosterone suppression does not equal sexual dysfunction. Almost all AAS shut you down (exception of a couple DHT based compounds run in mild duration). 19nors just do it a little faster. If you’re worried about deca dick just throw some masteron into the equation and you’ll be fine.

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    gotcha,... so keep test at trt and add the masteron . what dosage should i pin every other day along with the eq and npp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    gotcha,... so keep test at trt and add the masteron. what dosage should i pin every other day along with the eq and npp?
    I’d try something like
    Test: 150mg /wk
    EQ: 500mg / wk
    Deca : 500mg / wk
    dbol : 20mg pre workout
    or first thing in the morning on Non training days

    The test, EQ, and deca are all long Esther and you’d be okay with injecting them all at the same time every 3.5 days. You can mix it all up in the same syringe if you like.

    Nolvadex : On hand
    Mast prop: On hand (Mast is a pretty potent androgen and DHT, so you don’t want to use it unless you need it, but you want to have it incase you need it)
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    So would you suggest keeping test at TRT dosage and then just adding the npp and eq? or is there something else i should add? ive read deca will shut me down immediately, will npp do the same? not trying to cause problems with my gf in the bedroom lol
    "shut down" refers to the suppressing of the HPTA , pituitary gland in the brain . not the shut down of sexual function. thats an entirely different thing all together (even though theres a connection) .
    as mentioned, basically all AAS will "shut you down" .. the last Test only cycle you ran, you were definitely "shut down" , yet your were probably still a champ in the bedroom

    Npp and Deca are both nandrolone and suppression is equal

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    "shut down" refers to the suppressing of the HPTA , pituitary gland in the brain . not the shut down of sexual function. thats an entirely different thing all together (even though theres a connection) .
    as mentioned, basically all AAS will "shut you down" .. the last Test only cycle you ran, you were definitely "shut down" , yet your were probably still a champ in the bedroom

    Npp and Deca are both nandrolone and suppression is equal
    So... what is meant by "decadick"... if all AAS will suppress my HPTA (which I do understand) then why is it that deca specifically will give me boner problems

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    So... what is meant by "decadick"... if all AAS will suppress my HPTA (which I do understand) then why is it that deca specifically will give me boner problems
    In some it significantly raises prolactin levels. High prolactin=no erection. After you orgasm prolactin levels increase which is the reason for the refractory period. So it’d be like that only on a larger scale.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyV85 View Post
    So... what is meant by "decadick"... if all AAS will suppress my HPTA (which I do understand) then why is it that deca specifically will give me boner problems
    Because it concerts to DHN (dihydronandrolone) instead of DHT (dihydrotestosterone)
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    I have some BP Dbol I wanna start taking in the meantime since the NPP and EQ wont be here for a while...how do you guys suggest i dose that at? Ive read comments about taking it preworkout for massive pumps. Thats sounds awesome along with 5mg cialis which i usually take preworkout as well. How much dbol should i take preworkout and throughout the day?

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