Deca or EQ - For size

[Cakedup]

Well the difference is that Dbol is Methylatated (a methyl group is added to the 17 position) so it can survive the digestive system (first pass of the liver) , and Eq is NOT methylated and thus has to be injected and not subject to the first pass of the liver.
note - when methylation occurs, a methyl group is added, without changing the actual DNA sequence of the molecule . so EQ and Dbol are the exact same molecule/DNA sequence . so thats what I mean they are the same on paper (just one is methylated for oral consumption and one is injectible only).

but keep this in mind . the liver is "magic" . when something has to go though the first pass of liver (and then another pass on top of it) , some "magical" shit can happen .
heck think about these things . if you ate too much chicken breast in a single meal with no carbs, your liver can simply take all those extra amino acids/proteins and convert them into glucose (carbs). Your liver can can take an inactive thyroid hormone, t4, and convert into active thyroid T3. your liver can take HGH and Insulin and then spit out IGF . your liver can take high blood serum levels of estrogen and then spit out even more IGF.. you liver can create basically almost seemingly out of nothing and make things.

AND your liver can take Dbol. which is just methylated EQ. and create nearly a whole new drug and make extra metabolites out of it that it does not do with EQ .
so this is how Dbol is so estrogenic and EQ is not. because of the way the liver metabolizes dbol. it creates unigue metabolites that are then armotized and converted to estrogen (actual its not even normal estrogen, its a form of estrogen that is 5x more potent and bio available then the estrogen that testosterone converts to)..

this relates to all sorts of other drugs as well . methyl tren (oral tren) is not tren at all after being processed by the liver. methyl test is not really test. same thing can happen with other drugs that are not AAS.


note - and before anyone asks. NO injectible Dbol is not simply EQ . injectible Dbol is still methylated and as such will be broken down the same way as oral Dbol, just happens on the second pass (the blood pass) of the liver rather then the first pass




I'm guessing you got anxiety from Tren based on a couple things .. you didn't run a high enough dose of test (or have another highly estrogenic compound in there like Dbol) , OR you were running way too high of dose of an AI while taking it. too high of androgen load with too low of estrogen will cause anxiety for sure . your brain has both androgen and estrogen receptors. Tren is super super androgenic (and not estrogenic) so its going to saturate those androgen receptors in the brain, but if you don't have enough estrogen to also saturate the e rescptors in the brain to counter balance the two hormones , then you can get anxiety and an over stimulation of the nervous system .

next time you run tren do NOT run it with an AI . run around 150mg of Tren, 400mg of test, 20mg Dbol day, 10mg nolva a day . and you likely won't have anxiety issues from it, cause you'll have a better balance of estrogen to androgen load in the brain.

Your exactly right. You hit the nail right on the head. I got gyno one time from deca so I figure I'm susceptible to prolactin induced gyno, and this could be wrong but I was always told as long as you keep your estrogen levels and check your prolactin will never get out of whack therefore my dumbass was taken anywhere from 12.5 to 20 mg of aromasin everyday. Lol. GH you are the fucking man.

If I'm running deca how long after my last shot do I need to wait to run Tren because I don't think it's wise to run to 19 Nors. Am I right?

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[GearHeaded]

Your exactly right. You hit the nail right on the head. I got gyno one time from deca so I figure I'm susceptible to prolactin induced gyno, and this could be wrong but I was always told as long as you keep your estrogen levels and check your prolactin will never get out of whack therefore my dumbass was taken anywhere from 12.5 to 20 mg of aromasin everyday. Lol. GH you are the fucking man.

If I'm running deca how long after my last shot do I need to wait to run Tren because I don't think it's wise to run to 19 Nors. Am I right?

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yeah I figured it was too much AI or low estrogen related.. high androgen load plus low estrogen load = anxiety (which is more common in contest prep)


ok so what you need to know about progestin based compounds like Tren and Deca, and their relation to progesterone, prolactin, and estrogen is simply this ..

These drugs are progestin and they will bind to progestin receptors AS actual progesterone . your body thinks progesterone levels are elevated and this will then sensitize you to estrogen (and make prolactin levels possible elevate) . so your existing estrogen becomes "super estrogen" .

so its not elevated estrogen thats causing this. its the progestin activation from the 19 nor based compounds. heck Tren does not even aromatize. if you did a tren only cycle, your E levels are going to go down , BUT you could still get estrogen and prolactin based side effects (even gyno).
and being tren does NOT aromatize ,, guess what , an AI is not going to do crap to help this ! AI's only blunt aromatization, nothing more.

its the progestin effects that cause all this. NOT aromatization . trying to keep E levels low (which usually causes more harm and sides then good) with 19 nors is useless . AI's are completely un needed with Tren and Deca. they don't help, they cause more problems then good usually.


your solution is simply to offset progestin activity by using Masteron , which blunts progestin receptors. and if your worried about secondary estrogenic effects like gyno, then run some Nolva along with that.

there are probably at least 30+ guys on this forum that have started using Masteron and Nolva on their 19 nor cycles and have great results now and don't use AIs or Caber at all now..


and side note - deca and Tren are awesome together in a single cycle, let alone running them back to back . just need to implement that Masteron and some Nolva

side note - some people (very few) are overly sensitive to progestin and can get dramatic spikes in prolactin when using them. those people just need to not run 19 nors at all . but for a majority of guys, mast and nolva do the trick

[Cakedup]

yeah I figured it was too much AI or low estrogen related.. high androgen load plus low estrogen load = anxiety (which is more common in contest prep)


ok so what you need to know about progestin based compounds like Tren and Deca , and their relation to progesterone, prolactin, and estrogen is simply this ..

These drugs are progestin and they will bind to progestin receptors AS actual progesterone . your body thinks progesterone levels are elevated and this will then sensitize you to estrogen (and make prolactin levels possible elevate) . so your existing estrogen becomes "super estrogen" .

so its not elevated estrogen thats causing this. its the progestin activation from the 19 nor based compounds. heck Tren does not even aromatize. if you did a tren only cycle, your E levels are going to go down , BUT you could still get estrogen and prolactin based side effects (even gyno).
and being tren does NOT aromatize ,, guess what , an AI is not going to do crap to help this ! AI's only blunt aromatization, nothing more.

its the progestin effects that cause all this. NOT aromatization . trying to keep E levels low (which usually causes more harm and sides then good) with 19 nors is useless . AI's are completely un needed with Tren and Deca. they don't help, they cause more problems then good usually.


your solution is simply to offset progestin activity by using Masteron , which blunts progestin receptors. and if your worried about secondary estrogenic effects like gyno, then run some Nolva along with that.

there are probably at least 30+ guys on this forum that have started using Masteron and Nolva on their 19 nor cycles and have great results now and don't use AIs or Caber at all now..


and side note - deca and Tren are awesome together in a single cycle, let alone running them back to back . just need to implement that Masteron and some Nolva

side note - some people (very few) are overly sensitive to progestin and can get dramatic spikes in prolactin when using them. those people just need to not run 19 nors at all . but for a majority of guys, mast and nolva do the trick

Thank you for that response. So I'm taking it that I don't need to wait until so many days after my last shot of Deca and I can go ahead and add in the Tren a now and most likely have no problems as long as I'm running Ndex ( i believe you said 10mg a day) this is the case I'm ready to take my first shot of Tren tonight?

So I'm thinking,
300mg Test E 2 x week=600mg
50mg Tren A 3 x week=150mg
100mg Mast P 3 x week=300
30mg inject Sdrol pwo. So For 2 week, then,
10 to 20mg oral Sdrol ED for 3 weeks
10mg Ndex ED.

How does that look to you? Would you add anything or change anything? Keep in mind I love EQ. Oh I'm working on getting mk-677 as we speak @10mg for appitite.

Seriously thank you again man.....



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[Windex]

Thank you for that response. So I'm taking it that I don't need to wait until so many days after my last shot of Deca and I can go ahead and add in the Tren a now and most likely have no problems as long as I'm running Ndex ( i believe you said 10mg a day) this is the case I'm ready to take my first shot of Tren tonight?

So I'm thinking,
300mg Test E 2 x week=600mg
50mg Tren A 3 x week=150mg
100mg Mast P 3 x week=300
30mg inject Sdrol pwo. So For 2 week, then,
10 to 20mg oral Sdrol ED for 3 weeks
10mg Ndex ED.

How does that look to you? Would you add anything or change anything? Keep in mind I love EQ. Oh I'm working on getting mk-677 as we speak @10mg for appitite.

Seriously thank you again man.....



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I don't think 10mg of MK677 is going to really do much.

Tren and Deca can be run together if you fully understand both drugs in and out on paper and how they react with your body. For99% of the average juice head , they aren't competent to know how to run both together.

Sdrol + Tren is going to destroy lipid panel without a proper supplement program in place (TUDCA + NAC is not sufficient).

Injecting Tren A and Mast P 3x per week is useless. Learn about ester half lives. Better yet, go to steroidcalc and graph the esters. If you can't pin every day then switch to long esters.

Overall cycle is poorly planned to be honest. Not set up for success.

[powerliftmike]

some super conservative guys will say "yeah but your throwing everything but the kitchen sink into your cycle" .. cause of combining a lot of different compounds into a cycle (all the while they are running just as much because all the Caber, Prami, arimidex , Clomid, Hcg , Nolva, etc. they are actually running in their cycle duration) .
what they don't realize is the dosages and which compounds are actually the work horse compounds and which ones are just added in for synergy as an "ancillary" to help limit negative sides and increase results.

I must be really conservative and "old school". My preference as my experience grew more is to run testosterone (sometimes by itself) with ONE other AAS, my favorite being Masteron . Now if I am going to competition I will consider dbol or anadrol in addition immediately prior, but in general avoid orals. I do not run anything else during the cycle, you actually can slow gains using anti estrogens. I know top pros that run less drugs than the huge list many guys post up on the forum. Some run high doses, but it isnt some long list of crap.

Too many newer users think there should be drug included for every side effect they read about.

In addition, I found eq pretty much sucks. There is some some appetite stimulation, some RBC boost, but not much else. Deca bring good weight gain and water retention.