EQ - An AI property

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10-14-2019, 08:00 AM
anabolicfre4k

EQ - An AI property

I just wanted to share my experience using EQ. I have heard guys talking about EQ working as an AI for them but it did not make sense because after all EQ does aromatize itself. I was pretty surprised from bloods. 4 weeks into cycle I noticed decreased libido and penile sensitivity. I was about to throw in some adex because after all I was running pretty aromatizing stack. I thought my E2 IS through the roof. And I had a good reason to believe it is:

This is a cycle I ran at the beginnig of the year
Tst P 150mg EOD, NPP 100mg EOD.

As you can see a little bit of Tst P with NPP got my E2 quite high

T - 5231 ng/dl
E2 - 106.2 pg/ml

I did not suffer any high E2 symptoms so I did not use any AI.

The cycle with EQ I am talking about is looking like this

Tst C 500mg/w NPP 600mg/w, EQ 850mg/w, Proviron 50mg

Here are bloods this time:

T - 3799 ng/dl
E2 - 15.8 pg/ml - WTF??

Again no AI.

Not saying this is universal truth but this may be a warning for someone who regularly runs AI in cycle...not knowing how EQ works for you, you might easily got yourself into low E2 troubles and wonder why
10-14-2019, 08:07 AM
GearHeaded

I have seen countless blood work where estrogen goes DOWN when using EQ, especially the longer you take it. the reason is, even though on paper EQ has slightly aromatization properties, theirs a metabolite of EQ that produces anti estrogen enzymes. the longer you take EQ the more these anti estrogen enzymes build up and the lower your Estrogen levels go.

I read about this years ago. I wish I had that original article to link . but again through the years I've seen guys bloodwork many times when running EQ and estrogen levels do/can go down.
10-14-2019, 08:13 AM
GearHeaded

another reason why AI's can be avoided if you know how to properly design a stack and set up your cycles so that other AAS themselves can be used as your ancillaries rather then depending on crappy cancer drugs and things like AI's, Caber, Prami . theirs usually another steroid out there that can counter negative side effects or synergize the cycle rather then depending on traditional ancillaries .
none of my contest prep clients used an AI this contest season.. had one female use a little bit of Nolva but thats it.
10-14-2019, 08:26 AM
GearHeaded

I can't find the article about EQ converting to anti estrogen enzymes . but off the top of my head if I remember, I think these enzymes simply bind to and "flush" estrogen out of the body. its not actually blocking aromatization at all.
I'll keep looking further
10-14-2019, 08:44 AM
KINGKONG

Quote:

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

another reason why AI's can be avoided if you know how to properly design a stack and set up your cycles so that other AAS themselves can be used as your ancillaries rather then depending on crappy cancer drugs and things like AI's, Caber, Prami . theirs usually another steroid out there that can counter negative side effects or synergize the cycle rather then depending on traditional ancillaries .
none of my contest prep clients used an AI this contest season.. had one female use a little bit of Nolva but thats it.

That’s interesting..OP good post I’ve been away for awhile I’ve never heard of EQ lowering estrogen or binding or blocking..I’ve never liked the AI’s because they are the most toxic thing in whole protocol..to get the synergy with another compound and avoid excessive estrogen is a god send..it’s pretty exciting for me to avoid them unless I was trying to look a certain way took as needed or e3D dex at half a quarter pill on empty stomach..they are so powerful and have such negative effects on my libido even with blood work and it “dialed in” there still were days when it just wasn’t there..not to mention other sides...good points guys!!ill try to search around find study as well pretty bored at work..
10-14-2019, 10:56 AM
anabolicfre4k

I have read an article mentioning the metabolite. Maybe that's the same one...but I have no link either
10-14-2019, 02:20 PM
Ashop

If you guys find links to the article I would love to see it.
10-14-2019, 03:28 PM
KINGKONG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashop

If you guys find links to the article I would love to see it.

Spent half the day looking..would love to see it as well..
10-14-2019, 03:49 PM
GearHeaded

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGKONG

Spent half the day looking..would love to see it as well..

I came across it like 7 or so years ago . coach Trevor from enhanced athlete also talked about this a long time ago before EA was even that popular. so its not necessarily new information, so I'm sure info is out there fairly established. I just gotta dig a little deeper
10-15-2019, 12:34 AM
anabolicfre4k

http ://www.ironmagazine.com/2012/boldenone-realizing-its-full-potential/
10-15-2019, 02:59 AM
anabolicfre4k

I was hoping GH will reply to the thread :-). Love reading your posts.

My question is: Since reasonable dose of EQ is heavily suppressing my E2, I would have to double or even tripple the Test dose to reach reasonable and comfortable E2 levels. But having T so high, EQ would be completely overshadowed. Is this the reason to not use EQ at all or what would be your strategy? I personally think all the work was done by Test and NPP in the cycle. So giving up on EQ completely wouldn't be a big deal for me. Another option that comes to mind is to use it solely as a mean to control E2 in cycle. But isn't it waste of EQ and money to degrade it to AI?
10-15-2019, 08:02 AM
GearHeaded

Quote:

Originally Posted by anabolicfre4k

http ://www.ironmagazine.com/2012/boldenone-realizing-its-full-potential/

Boldenone ? Realizing its full potential | IronMag Bodybuilding Blog
10-15-2019, 08:45 AM
KINGKONG

Quote:

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

Boldenone ? Realizing its full potential | IronMag Bodybuilding Blog

Well you found something GH!:)
Spent hours researching 1,4 dienedone and couldn’t find any research on it, not in relation to estrogen..GodHimself had mentioned it when I was looking for reasons..at least we got a lot of people confirming what OP said..it obviously has some estrogen blocking or inhibition..these kinda talks get people looking more to bring out innovations in AAS..remember when it was just first edition of anabolics 2000..lol had to rely on theory and more bro science then real science..
10-15-2019, 08:49 AM
GearHeaded

Quote:

Originally Posted by KINGKONG

Well you found something GH!:)

That was the OP that found the article .. I just made it into a link for him
10-15-2019, 08:51 AM
KINGKONG

Quote:

Originally Posted by GearHeaded

That was the OP that found the article .. I just made it into a link for him

Ahhhhhh was wondering clicked and got the sites Boldenone info..well thanks OP!
10-15-2019, 09:14 AM
GearHeaded

Quote:

Originally Posted by anabolicfre4k

I was hoping GH will reply to the thread :-). Love reading your posts.

My question is: Since reasonable dose of EQ is heavily suppressing my E2, I would have to double or even tripple the Test dose to reach reasonable and comfortable E2 levels. But having T so high, EQ would be completely overshadowed. Is this the reason to not use EQ at all or what would be your strategy? I personally think all the work was done by Test and NPP in the cycle. So giving up on EQ completely wouldn't be a big deal for me. Another option that comes to mind is to use it solely as a mean to control E2 in cycle. But isn't it waste of EQ and money to degrade it to AI?

well its going to really depend on the goal of a persons cycles and their current situation . EQ's role in a massing phase may be very different then EQ's role in contest prep phase.
so I would basically consider it a useful, but selective, tool in the tool belt.

personally I often times 'cruise' on EQ . instead of 500mg of test for a cruise, I'll drop test down to like 150 and cruise on like 350mg of Eq.
I've also used EQ to cruise during 'no test' periods of time. I'll use no test. then use EQ as its replacement as an anabolic, then add in only 10mg a day of Dbol to keep my E levels stable (and get some small amount of DHT).

As most you guys around here know, I'm a pretty big fan of estrogen and purposely elevating estrogen to high levels during mass gaining phases. some people confuse this and think I promote high estrogen year round . I don't . read my advanced protocols thread and you'll see I schedule in 'anti estrogen' phases just to get E levels lower or normalized (just like I do with androgens).
so this is one reason why I will cruise with EQ after a heavy blast and massing phase when estrogen levels were probably in the 250+ range. Eq is going to naturally bring those estrogen levels down as I cruise . no need for an AI or SERM (neither of which are anabolic like EQ) .

so again, use of EQ is highly situation dependent. heck if you wanted to use it as an AI during contest prep phase, or even during an off cycle time , thats totally fine. its way cheaper then AI's that for sure. plus its likely more healthy (and again its at least anabolic) .

as for using EQ in cycles.
IF you were in a heavy massing phase and purposely wanted to get your E levels up high, then your right you may need to double or triple your dosage of test .
WELL.. guess what. check out my log . I had been cruising off cycle with EQ. when I jumped on a blast I decided to keep it in. my Test dosage now is 1,850mg per week . so yeah you can say I at least doubled my dosage of test :) plus I also add in some Dbol . I use Dbol quite often as an ancillary compound. almost like some guys use female birth control pills to get more estrogen , I simply pop Dbols instead.
so with that much test and some dbol in there , I don't think the 500mg of Eq is going to crash my e levels . of course if I want to step it up and go for an all out 'Wet' high estrogen bulk, I will drop the EQ off.

Eq can work just fine in contest prep too and yeah will keep e levels on the lower end.. I'm not a fan of using AI's in contest prep either . I'd rather just use the proper AAS compounds and let them do the work.

so I totally think their is a use for EQ in various situations.

heres a very simple one I've said for years on here .. use it as a filler drug if nothing else.
lets say you want to run 2000mg of test per week. but your afraid of too much estrogen or too much water and side effects.
well simply run 1000mg of test and 1000mg of EQ , and that gives you your 2000mg of test base. you won't need an AI either . androgen side effects will be less as well.
10-16-2019, 12:18 AM
anabolicfre4k

Thanks for comprehensive answer! I read your posts and I certainly am aware of you being a fan on estrogen. I am not sure about long term health implications but I surely agree that during a serious bulk, estrogen is indispensable. I see it right now.. I am currently finishing the cycle and although I gained some quality mass and strength is over the roof(thank you NPP), weight has been moving very slowly having sub optimal E2. This was actually my very first run of EQ so I wanted to keep TST on the lower side so EQ gets more pronounced, but I can not do that in future for E2 reasons. I subjectively feel better having E2 100+ than having it this low. Wondering if lower dosage of EQ would have also estrogen suppressing effects, but if so, then I can see how I could use EQ to my advantage especially during dieting or phases when high E2 is not wanted. Also not sure if I would cruise with EQ - pinning tiny amounts of TST and throwing in EQ sounds like low E2 again.
10-17-2019, 09:35 AM
jackfrost88

Very interesting. My last cycle of 300test 600eq mid cycle blood work (No AI, only HCG as an ancillary which would raise estrogen slightly) showed estrogen borderline ZERO. However, I had no low estrogen symptoms. My energy / sex drive and overall feeling was great! This was very different from my first test only cycle so I know EQ had something to do with it.
10-18-2019, 03:52 AM
Dgs59

Good to know, thanks guys for posting
10-28-2019, 06:59 PM
JaneDoe

Lots of good information
Today I know there is a great science behind the anabolic steroids themselves.
10-30-2019, 10:41 PM
jackfrost88

Can confirm in my personal use. 300test 600eq with no AI- my testosterone came back around 1500 (reference range high end was 900) and my E2 levels showed up as basically 0. Interestingly enough, I suffered no crashed estrogen symptoms whatsoever leading me to believe it may be interfering with the test results.

The compound I believe you guys are looking for this effect is l-delta-estradiol from what I could find in my research. Not a whole lot of info out there however so it is broscience for now.
10-02-2020, 07:11 PM
Amuuzen

Great read. Glad I found this. About to hit EQ for a 4 month 750/ TC 400 + HGH run. Was worried I'd need to use an AI or possibly nolvadex since I'm a little estrogen sensitive, but I've never had any issues in the past and this might explain why.

Thanks! Sorry to break out an old thread, but had to say something!
10-03-2020, 10:23 AM
Test Monsterone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amuuzen

Great read. Glad I found this. About to hit EQ for a 4 month 750/ TC 400 + HGH run. Was worried I'd need to use an AI or possibly nolvadex since I'm a little estrogen sensitive, but I've never had any issues in the past and this might explain why.

Thanks! Sorry to break out an old thread, but had to say something!

Let us know how it goes.

I've also run Test + EQ with no AI/SERM but I did notice some water retention.
10-03-2020, 02:30 PM
MaxiMyME

Quote:

Originally Posted by anabolicfre4k

I just wanted to share my experience using EQ. I have heard guys talking about EQ working as an AI for them but it did not make sense because after all EQ does aromatize itself. I was pretty surprised from bloods. 4 weeks into cycle I noticed decreased libido and penile sensitivity. I was about to throw in some adex because after all I was running pretty aromatizing stack. I thought my E2 IS through the roof. And I had a good reason to believe it is:

This is a cycle I ran at the beginnig of the year
Tst P 150mg EOD, NPP 100mg EOD.

As you can see a little bit of Tst P with NPP got my E2 quite high

T - 5231 ng/dl
E2 - 106.2 pg/ml

I did not suffer any high E2 symptoms so I did not use any AI.

The cycle with EQ I am talking about is looking like this

Tst C 500mg/w NPP 600mg/w, EQ 850mg/w, Proviron 50mg

Here are bloods this time:

T - 3799 ng/dl
E2 - 15.8 pg/ml - WTF??

Again no AI.

Not saying this is universal truth but this may be a warning for someone who regularly runs AI in cycle...not knowing how EQ works for you, you might easily got yourself into low E2 troubles and wonder why

It seems boldenone is structurally/metabolically related to ATD which is an irreversible steroidal aromatase inhibitor. This may play a role.

Ref: Metabolic study of androsta-1,4,6-triene-3,17-dione in horses using
liquid chromatography/high resolution mass spectrometry

Want the full article? Google "where is scihub now?" And put in name of article or doi
10-03-2020, 03:05 PM
Yard_Dog

Great info. I was a little concerned about EQ, from what I'm reading it seems to act somewhat like Masteron. Npp would flare me up, I believe it was more prolactin.. However been holding on to some EQ.
10-04-2020, 07:13 PM
kbunyan

I don't think I crashed my E2 but they were already high to begin with on my cruise. Thinking about adding 40mg dbol.