finding it nearly impossible to progress.

been working out consistently for the past 5 years (3 natty 2 enhanced) it wasn't easy but i went from 145-205 (194 this morning). now im finding it nearly impossible to put on weight or progress my last bulk i was at 4700 calories to gain weight i literally just ate anything and it was a struggle to get it all in. looking back at pictures i can barley tell the difference from the last 1-1.5 years not sure if i even look better its to the point where im finding it hard to stay motivated and push myself anymore and i just want to call it quits. started my current cycle 2.5 weeks ago (test, tren, dbol, deca front loaded with npp) in this time my weight has fluctuated a bit but i weigh the exact same as when i started i know it takes time but F*** i should see something from the dbol.

when you bulk do you get chubby by the end?

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Originally Posted by morton30

when you bulk do you get chubby by the end?

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When I was natty, and on my last test only cycle which was last year I got a little chubby I've never really been super lean and shredded.

You put on 50 lbs in a few years, that’s pretty good. It sounds like you hit you genetic limit and your body doesn’t want to grow anymore. Do you take off long enough between cycles to resensitize yourself to the gear? If you are under 6’ tall, anything near 200 is a solid weight. I would suggest not to focus on getting bigger and bigger, but to finally sculpt your body and refine the muscle you have put on. I can tell you I was 255 before, and I wasn’t happier than at 230, because I didn’t have the definition I wanted. I’m over 6’ though.

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Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

You put on 50 lbs in a few years, that’s pretty good. It sounds like you hit you genetic limit and your body doesn’t want to grow anymore. Do you take off long enough between cycles to resensitize yourself to the gear? If you are under 6’ tall, anything near 200 is a solid weight. I would suggest not to focus on getting bigger and bigger, but to finally sculpt your body and refine the muscle you have put on. I can tell you I was 255 before, and I wasn’t happier than at 230, because I didn’t have the definition I wanted. I’m over 6’ though.

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I'm 6' and have been working with GH who is a great guy and knows his stuff and even he said I should have made much better gains my last cycle. I Know 50 lbs great progress for 5 years but this last year and a half had just sucked I looked worse after every cycle.

It's not just about what you can eat but also what you can assimilate. All the calories in the world don't matter, even if they are clean sources if you have no micronutrients to drive them into the muscle for growth. I got to 255 lbs and 5 ft 10 from eating smarter, not more. I also did it using Tren, which is parroted as a "cutting steroid."

Steroids only take recovery so far. I would challenge you on the following :

1) When was the last time you tracked Potassium, Sodium, and Water intake instead of Protein, Carbs, and Fats ?

2) When was the last time you did a mineral panel to check things like Magnesium, Calcium, etc

3) Have you ever done a sleep study ? Tried to optimize your sleeping ? Things like no screens before bed, blackout blinds, waking up and bed at sake time every night, etc

4) What exercises have you done OUTSIDE the gym to improve your focus and mind to muscle connection INSIDE the gym?

5) Tracked your blood sugar levels over a 24 hour period to optimize carb intake ?


The point i'm getting at is without olympia genetics you need to stack the deck in your favour in literally every aspect of your life.

All the gear and pounding iron in the world is not going to get you to the next level if you are chronically stressed (be it work or life), have poor sleeping habits, always trying to eat more instead of smarter, etc

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Originally Posted by Windex

It's not just about what you can eat but also what you can assimilate. All the calories in the world don't matter, even if they are clean sources if you have no micronutrients to drive them into the muscle for growth. I got to 255 lbs and 5 ft 10 from eating smarter, not more. I also did it using Tren, which is parroted as a "cutting steroid."

Steroids only take recovery so far. I would challenge you on the following :

1) When was the last time you tracked Potassium, Sodium, and Water intake instead of Protein, Carbs, and Fats ?

2) When was the last time you did a mineral panel to check things like Magnesium, Calcium, etc

3) Have you ever done a sleep study ? Tried to optimize your sleeping ? Things like no screens before bed, blackout blinds, waking up and bed at sake time every night, etc

4) What exercises have you done OUTSIDE the gym to improve your focus and mind to muscle connection INSIDE the gym?

5) Tracked your blood sugar levels over a 24 hour period to optimize carb intake ?


The point i'm getting at is without olympia genetics you need to stack the deck in your favour in literally every aspect of your life.

All the gear and pounding iron in the world is not going to get you to the next level if you are chronically stressed (be it work or life), have poor sleeping habits, always trying to eat more instead of smarter, etc

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Haven't tried any of that not saying it won't help but at this point I think I need to just walk away for however long it takes. I literally can't focus or push myself in the gym anymore. After looking at some pictures from nearly a year ago I realized that their is nearly zero progress s actually might have looked better before. Deep inside I want to succeed but I'm just loosing my motive and don't Know what to do.

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Originally Posted by 99JT

Haven't tried any of that not saying it won't help but at this point I think I need to just walk away for however long it takes. I literally can't focus or push myself in the gym anymore. After looking at some pictures from nearly a year ago I realized that their is nearly zero progress s actually might have looked better before. Deep inside I want to succeed but I'm just loosing my motive and don't Know what to do.

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Your own post answers why you aren't finding success.

Just gave you multiple tools to try and your mind last is "Im just going to wait around and see." The vary definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result

How have you varied your training over the last 2 years? Have you taken any breaks to rest your body/mind?

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Originally Posted by Windex

Your own post answers why you aren't finding success.

Just gave you multiple tools to try and your mind last is "Im just going to wait around and see." The vary definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result

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After looking back at my progress I have just lost m passion for lifting that's why I'm thinking of taking a break maybe I'll come back maybe I wont. By no means am I trying disregard your advice it's just my attitude is not helping at this point and if I can't fix that I see no point in going on.

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Originally Posted by sixfootseven

How have you varied your training over the last 2 years? Have you taken any breaks to rest your body/mind?

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I've taken various different approaches too my training and worked with a couple very knowledgeable coaches starting to think I'm just genetically screwed.

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Originally Posted by 99JT

been working out consistently for the past 5 years (3 natty 2 enhanced) it wasn't easy but i went from 145-205 (194 this morning). now im finding it nearly impossible to put on weight or progress my last bulk i was at 4700 calories to gain weight i literally just ate anything and it was a struggle to get it all in. looking back at pictures i can barley tell the difference from the last 1-1.5 years not sure if i even look better its to the point where im finding it hard to stay motivated and push myself anymore and i just want to call it quits. started my current cycle 2.5 weeks ago (test, tren, dbol, deca front loaded with npp) in this time my weight has fluctuated a bit but i weigh the exact same as when i started i know it takes time but F*** i should see something from the dbol.

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Its not about the calories. Its about the increased calories. Take a look at Rich Pianas Bigger by the day Show. There he explains what is important.
F.i. Start at 3500calories and measure your bodyweigth and strength. From there u add 250 calories each week until u reach lets say 6000.
Its IMPOSSIBLE to not gain from this.
And Pianas answer to those who cant eat: its just eating goddamit. People worked in the mines 12 hours each day 6 times a week. Ocourse u can do it. Add hole milk. Easy to swallow. Lots of healthy calories. Try to stay away from powders except the whey in your intra workouts.
I put 60 gs of whey in my intra which i sip during wo.

Sent fra min BLA-L29 via Tapatalk

I Trained as a natural for 17 years. 12 of those years were pretty much spinning my wheels. I did it because I liked working out and how it made me feel. Even now that I’m on TRT and with the occasional cycle I don’t see much progress to be honest. But I still like to train. I think you have unrealistic expectations of what you want to achieve, with how you are achieving it. First of all, if you’re just doing cycles and going back to natty, you’re never going to get there. I lose basically all my gains when going back to TRT dosages. I’m not willing to risk my health by running very high doses with harsh compounds, so I don’t look like my ideal physique, but close enough. I feel the same as you at times, I’ve even made posts on here. Somehow I’m starting to accept myself.

With every Ying there’s an equal and opposite yang. You could run all the drugs in the world and look how you want, and cut 20 years off your life. Are you willing to do that? I think it’s perfectly fine that you take off some time to explore life and what you want. Don’t force yourself into something that at the moment is not bringing you fulfillment. Life is more than lifting weights and getting jacked. Don’t tie your identity to your physique because you’ll never be happy. Focus on family, health, and other interests for a while and work out when you feel like it.

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Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

I Trained as a natural for 17 years. 12 of those years were pretty much spinning my wheels. I did it because I liked working out and how it made me feel. Even now that I’m on TRT and with the occasional cycle I don’t see much progress to be honest. But I still like to train. I think you have unrealistic expectations of what you want to achieve, with how you are achieving it. First of all, if you’re just doing cycles and going back to natty, you’re never going to get there. I lose basically all my gains when going back to TRT dosages. I’m not willing to risk my health by running very high doses with harsh compounds, so I don’t look like my ideal physique, but close enough. I feel the same as you at times, I’ve even made posts on here. Somehow I’m starting to accept myself.

With every Ying there’s an equal and opposite yang. You could run all the drugs in the world and look how you want, and cut 20 years off your life. Are you willing to do that? I think it’s perfectly fine that you take off some time to explore life and what you want. Don’t force yourself into something that at the moment is not bringing you fulfillment. Life is more than lifting weights and getting jacked. Don’t tie your identity to your physique because you’ll never be happy. Focus on family, health, and other interests for a while and work out when you feel like it.

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for the past 5 years working out has been my life eat, train, go to work, sleep, and repeat I've had my ups and downs. I am on trt and as far as expectations I just want steady consistent progress my main lifts really haven't improved in the past year and I just dropped 10lbs in the last month or two and feel pretty weak. Not to mention I looked better in March than I do now and somehow no matter what drugs I take I don't feel any different, or stronger, and my weight doesn't go up their should at least be water retention.

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Originally Posted by Windex

Your own post answers why you aren't finding success.

Just gave you multiple tools to try and your mind last is "Im just going to wait around and see." The vary definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result

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Hypothetically If I just had a crappy diet but was getting in enough calories to gain weight, Enough protein, and I was following a decent routine putting in a decent amount of effort with or without gear I should see some kind of progress correct? Maybe far from optimal but still progressing. Honestly my lifts haven't progressed much if any in over a year, and in my opinion I look like a Natty POS as you can probably tell I get a little stressed and beat up over this.

I find going to different gyms has a big impact on results. If your surrounded by unmotivated lazy obese people at planet fitness, your not going to push yourself as hard as you will at a hardcore bodybulding gym where everyone is on gear.

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Originally Posted by 99JT

Hypothetically If I just had a crappy diet but was getting in enough calories to gain weight, Enough protein, and I was following a decent routine putting in a decent amount of effort with or without gear I should see some kind of progress correct? Maybe far from optimal but still progressing. Honestly my lifts haven't progressed much if any in over a year, and in my opinion I look like a Natty POS as you can probably tell I get a little stressed and beat up over this.

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No.

Think of it this way : Someone who has never golfed before starts getting into it. It doesn't matter what type of clubs he uses, if he hits the ball enough, eventually it will get into the hole. It just won't be a par or birdie.

This sport/lifestyle is just as much mental as it is physical.

eat more

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Originally Posted by morton30

eat more

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Bro, not gonna lie, this is a shit response. It's not always about eating more. Been there, done that. I can eat and eat, but if I don't eat the foods that my body responds well to, I am wasting my time. More isn't always the answer.

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Originally Posted by Kyle1337

Bro, not gonna lie, this is a shit response. It's not always about eating more. Been there, done that. I can eat and eat, but if I don't eat the foods that my body responds well to, I am wasting my time. More isn't always the answer.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by Kyle1337

Bro, not gonna lie, this is a shit response. It's not always about eating more. Been there, done that. I can eat and eat, but if I don't eat the foods that my body responds well to, I am wasting my time. More isn't always the answer.

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nope if he is not putting on weight he is not eating enough dont over complicate things for the sake of it

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Originally Posted by morton30

nope if he is not putting on weight he is not eating enough dont over complicate things for the sake of it

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heck if you ate 10,000 cals of chicken and rice every single day you still may not put on much more muscle. cals are just a measurement of energy , they don't build muscle. chicken and rice 10 times per day may give you plenty of cals but its lacking in micro nutrition. these micro nutrients are what cells require to be healthy, repair and grow.

simple example, but lets say your diet is deficient in potassium. well potassium is required for insulin to load glycogen into muscle cells. this is also how amino acids and nutrients enter the muscle cells..
so If you have low potassium because all your eating is chicken and rice then you are going to have a hard time building muscle.


the quality of nutrition is more important then the quantity. again, calories are just a measurement of energy (ie, heat). your body requires nutrients to grow muscle, not calories

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Originally Posted by morton30

nope if he is not putting on weight he is not eating enough dont over complicate things for the sake of it

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You don't understand nutrition then.

Windex already hit on some of the points I would recommend. Keep in mind that increases in strength and size are non-linear. Stagnation from time to time is guaranteed; typically a good strategy is to take time off (1-2 weeks min) and/or explore different training styles. Also keep in mind that the heavier you get the harder each additional pound of muscle can become. While putting the exact calories you are eating on paper, rather than saying I "eat a lot", can be an eye opener; one cannot just continue to eat more and more and grow. Genes will not allow it. Elephants get massive amounts of muscle and never even do squats: genes. The biggest species of them gets to 13,000 lbs.

What weight are you even trying to obtain? Strength goal?

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Originally Posted by powerliftmike

Windex already hit on some of the points I would recommend. Keep in mind that increases in strength and size are non-linear. Stagnation from time to time is guaranteed; typically a good strategy is to take time off (1-2 weeks min) and/or explore different training styles. Also keep in mind that the heavier you get the harder each additional pound of muscle can become. While putting the exact calories you are eating on paper, rather than saying I "eat a lot", can be an eye opener; one cannot just continue to eat more and more and grow. Genes will not allow it. Elephants get massive amounts of muscle and never even do squats: genes. The biggest species of them gets to 13,000 lbs.

What weight are you even trying to obtain? Strength goal?

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thanks im going to take take into account everyone recommendations. as for goals i try not to set many just aim for continuous improvement like most in the game i will always want more. but just to throw something out their id like to get to 225 lbs 315 bench, 405 squat, and back to a 500lb dead lift (hit it once) currently im 197 bench is 225x6 squat was up to 285lbs but have been doing hack squats lately.

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Originally Posted by 99JT

thanks im going to take take into account everyone recommendations. as for goals i try not to set many just aim for continuous improvement like most in the game i will always want more. but just to throw something out their id like to get to 225 lbs 315 bench, 405 squat, and back to a 500lb dead lift (hit it once) currently im 197 bench is 225x6 squat was up to 285lbs but have been doing hack squats lately.

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Therein lies the problem - no focus - Those are not goals - those are end fantasies. You need to take that and break it down into 5, 10, maybe even 28 smaller goals. Everything needs to be SMART

Specific
Measurable
Attainable
Realistic
Time Sensitive

If you want to get to 225 from 197? Well you have to get to 198 first. How long are going to take to get there ? 0.3 lbs/week? 0.5lbs/week? more? How much body fat increase are you comfortable with?

Some time goes by and you get to say 207. How do you look at 207? How do you feel physically? How do you feel mentally ? Is your weight speeding? Do you need to tap on the brakes?


If you do not set yourself these small goals you will never be able to hold yourself accountable. If you do not accomplish these small goals you will lack the fuel and motivation to keep progressing.

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Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

Don’t tie your identity to your physique because you’ll never be happy.

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Welp...I'm phucked :shrug:

I just read DBol in your question and if you didn't budge on dbol then I believe the shit was trash.

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Originally Posted by Windex

Therein lies the problem - no focus - Those are not goals - those are end fantasies. You need to take that and break it down into 5, 10, maybe even 28 smaller goals. Everything needs to be SMART

Specific
Measurable
Attainable
Realistic
Time Sensitive

If you want to get to 225 from 197? Well you have to get to 198 first. How long are going to take to get there ? 0.3 lbs/week? 0.5lbs/week? more? How much body fat increase are you comfortable with?

Some time goes by and you get to say 207. How do you look at 207? How do you feel physically? How do you feel mentally ? Is your weight speeding? Do you need to tap on the brakes?


If you do not set yourself these small goals you will never be able to hold yourself accountable. If you do not accomplish these small goals you will lack the fuel and motivation to keep progressing.

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Thanks I will set some smaller goals that will also help me from plateauing and not realizing it.

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Originally Posted by Dgs59

I just read DBol in your question and if you didn't budge on dbol then I believe the shit was trash.

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It was from a legit source. My weight went up 2-3 lbs and that's about it.

They say those who fail to plan... plan to fail. Always make small attainable goals.