Simplest most effective cycle

[GearHeaded]

so most you guys know I generally have some pretty 'advanced' AAS cycle protocols, between stacking, phase cycling, compound rotation, etc..
so I'm going to take a different angle here . this is just my opinion of what the most effective 'Simple' basic cycle is. mainly for putting on quality muscle tissue (no cosmetic effects, just going for new muscle tissue here)

1000mg test
500mg deca
600mg primo

thats it

now you can go with low dose test for you guys that are estrogen sensitive or don't like running higher dosages of test (then up the deca) , but for you guys that grow fairly well off of test , I can say for certain when you get to the 1000-1500mg zone of test it becomes way more anabolic. 600mg of test is one thing, but 1200mg of test is almost like running an entirely different compound. you will put on more size at that dosage

as for the deca and primo. two of the most anabolic , low side effect, compounds around. they do great at simply adding new muscle tissue over time.


if I could only run one simple stack over and over again and had no access to any 'advanced protocols' then I would run this stack .


what would you guys run as your go to 'simple stack' ?

[i_SLAM_cougars]

For something I could run probably indefinitely without ever having to cruise off...

Test - 1000mg
DHB- 400mg
Deca - 250mg
Dianabol - 20mg pre workout, probably 3 days a week)

I have no realm of experience with Primo, but you’re kind of making me rethink the whole blast and cruise thing to running more of a heavy anabolic cruise that I never really gave to come away from.

[Cuz]

My test doses is usually 750 mg or less when i cycle, if i use dbol or winstrol i use 25-50 mg for 6-8 weeks and currently use mast around 300mg per week.

Would upping my test to say 2 grams shake things up? Im nervous about the sides id get with acne and bloat but idk maybe throw var in also.

What do u think of Mast instead of Primo, considering idk if i can get legit primo?

2000 mg test
400-600 mast
50-75 var daily

Any feedback on that cycle?

[GearHeaded]

My test doses is usually 750 mg or less when i cycle, if i use dbol or winstrol i use 25-50 mg for 6-8 weeks and currently use mast around 300mg per week.

Would upping my test to say 2 grams shake things up? Im nervous about the sides id get with acne and bloat but idk maybe throw var in also.

What do u think of Mast instead of Primo, considering idk if i can get legit primo?

2000 mg test
400-600 mast
50-75 var daily

Any feedback on that cycle?

in my log, last winter around dec/jan of last year or so , I ran an experiment with 2000mg of test , 1000mg of Tren, and 500mg of Mast .
went ok, but did not sleep for days and had severe brain fog from the androgen over load. I think it was mainly from the Tren.

since then I've experimented with high dose Test without issues . 1500-1800 test is not an issue . once you get over 1000+mg of test its like a whole different compound .. have clients that are members of this board that can attest to this as well . Jayd, he did a run of 1500+ and felt amazing and has made massive gains over the last year . Charger who I'm working with for his off season right now, which he has logged in his log, ran a 1500mg of test phase for his off season just recently (he's the most muscular he's ever been)..
high dose test blasts have their benefits .

its worth a try.. I have zero restraints to blasting 2g of test for several weeks..

side note -- the whole reason I did the super high dose test, Tren, Mast, cycle was because of a thoery that I learned about from a chemical biologist that worked for big pharma for 25 years doing nothing but studying the androgen receptor, and his theory was that if you suddenly and massively flood the entire body with androgens your body will go into 'shock mode' and rapidly begin up regulating androgen receptor density to accommodate it all . so basically its a way of increasing the amount of androgen receptors you have.
my androgen load during that experiment was like 7500 (ie, = to running 7500mg of test per week)..


as for Masteron. its mainly an androgen with some anabolic properties . I advise running Mast in a majority of cycles. if you ever see one of my client AAS protocols you'll generally always see Masteron listed as an ancillary (if its not an actual part of the cycle, it still needs to be on hand at all times) . its an extremely usable compound for many situations .

however, mast and primo shouldn't be compared, though they often times are. totally different drugs. they have some similarity (like lowering SHBG) but thats it . mast is an androgen mainly , primo is a pure anabolic . mast is cosmetic and has ancillary benefits (like blunting progestin receptors) where as Primo is muscle sparing and mainly just up regulates protein synthesis.


anyhow .. trying to run 2000mg of test , with some Mast in the mix and maybe some Nolva (if your E sensitive) , yes give it a try.
as for Var . save it for a time your on a low dose cruise just to test out and see how Var works for you solo

[jstone]

My test doses is usually 750 mg or less when i cycle, if i use dbol or winstrol i use 25-50 mg for 6-8 weeks and currently use mast around 300mg per week.

Would upping my test to say 2 grams shake things up? Im nervous about the sides id get with acne and bloat but idk maybe throw var in also.

What do u think of Mast instead of Primo, considering idk if i can get legit primo?

2000 mg test
400-600 mast
50-75 var daily

Any feedback on that cycle?

You have been around a long time you should have no problems getting legit primo. In the last few years the AAS/HGH game has drastically changed. There is a lot more testing available and labs are putting out legit products for the most part now. If you fail a random test your reputation is shot. Legit primo is definitely out there.

[GearHeaded]

You have been around a long time you should have no problems getting legit primo. In the last few years the AAS/HGH game has drastically changed. There is a lot more testing available and labs are putting out legit products for the most part now. If you fail a random test your reputation is shot. Legit primo is definitely out there.

agree with this 100% .. coming from me a guy that spent $370 a bottle for Primo from an anti aging clinic years ago . never again. plenty of affordable real primo out there now

[Windex]

My test doses is usually 750 mg or less when i cycle, if i use dbol or winstrol i use 25-50 mg for 6-8 weeks and currently use mast around 300mg per week.

Would upping my test to say 2 grams shake things up? Im nervous about the sides id get with acne and bloat but idk maybe throw var in also.

What do u think of Mast instead of Primo, considering idk if i can get legit primo?

2000 mg test
400-600 mast
50-75 var daily

Any feedback on that cycle?

Do you have access to Balkan Primo? I used that initially as it was gifted to me and have no complaints. Using domestic now but I'd suggest that lab if it's an option for you.

[Windex]

I did two Test only cycles once upon a time and then threw the idea of cookie cutter stacks out the window afterwards.

If I could only pick one compound on top of my TRT dose it would be Primo or maybe Tren. I would NEVER touch Injectable Winny again - what a nightmare, especially as a calf injection.

There's tons of compounds I've never used and have zero desire to.

[Cuz]

You have been around a long time you should have no problems getting legit primo. In the last few years the AAS/HGH game has drastically changed. There is a lot more testing available and labs are putting out legit products for the most part now. If you fail a random test your reputation is shot. Legit primo is definitely out there.

Thanks, primo wasnt something talked about much when i first got in the game nearly 15 yr ago but like you say things have changed, i guess i need to open my eyes and see that.

Do you have access to Balkan Primo? I used that initially as it was gifted to me and have no complaints. Using domestic now but I'd suggest that lab if it's an option for you.

I appreciate the suggestion, im familiar with that lab

in my log, last winter around dec/jan of last year or so , I ran an experiment with 2000mg of test , 1000mg of Tren, and 500mg of Mast .
went ok, but did not sleep for days and had severe brain fog from the androgen over load. I think it was mainly from the Tren.

since then I've experimented with high dose Test without issues . 1500-1800 test is not an issue . once you get over 1000+mg of test its like a whole different compound .. have clients that are members of this board that can attest to this as well . Jayd, he did a run of 1500+ and felt amazing and has made massive gains over the last year . Charger who I'm working with for his off season right now, which he has logged in his log, ran a 1500mg of test phase for his off season just recently (he's the most muscular he's ever been)..
high dose test blasts have their benefits .

its worth a try.. I have zero restraints to blasting 2g of test for several weeks..

side note -- the whole reason I did the super high dose test, Tren, Mast, cycle was because of a thoery that I learned about from a chemical biologist that worked for big pharma for 25 years doing nothing but studying the androgen receptor, and his theory was that if you suddenly and massively flood the entire body with androgens your body will go into 'shock mode' and rapidly begin up regulating androgen receptor density to accommodate it all . so basically its a way of increasing the amount of androgen receptors you have.
my androgen load during that experiment was like 7500 (ie, = to running 7500mg of test per week)..


as for Masteron. its mainly an androgen with some anabolic properties . I advise running Mast in a majority of cycles. if you ever see one of my client AAS protocols you'll generally always see Masteron listed as an ancillary (if its not an actual part of the cycle, it still needs to be on hand at all times) . its an extremely usable compound for many situations .

however, mast and primo shouldn't be compared, though they often times are. totally different drugs. they have some similarity (like lowering SHBG) but thats it . mast is an androgen mainly , primo is a pure anabolic . mast is cosmetic and has ancillary benefits (like blunting progestin receptors) where as Primo is muscle sparing and mainly just up regulates protein synthesis.


anyhow .. trying to run 2000mg of test , with some Mast in the mix and maybe some Nolva (if your E sensitive) , yes give it a try.
as for Var . save it for a time your on a low dose cruise just to test out and see how Var works for you solo

Ill keep that in mind, save the var. I might do something like high test with mast, and legit deca or primo. That sounds good actually

[Paganini]

what would you guys run as your go to 'simple stack' ?[/QUOTE]
Test tren masteron for me��

[Huher]

I'm still planning my next cycle, but it will be like this
1000mg test e for 15 weeks
750mg deca for 10-12 weeks(prolactin gets very angry after 10 weeks for me)
50mg dbol in the first 4 weeks

I wanna add another compound for the last 8-10 weeks just don't figured out yet. Also wanna add some ghrp6 with slin. My goal is to put on quality size.
What would you add?

[jstone]

I'm still planning my next cycle, but it will be like this
1000mg test e for 15 weeks
750mg deca for 10-12 weeks(prolactin gets very angry after 10 weeks for me)
50mg dbol in the first 4 weeks

I wanna add another compound for the last 8-10 weeks just don't figured out yet. Also wanna add some ghrp6 with slin. My goal is to put on quality size.
What would you add?

I wouldn't run it like that, because 15 weeks is to long in my opinion, unless a more advanced protocol is utilized. After the first 8-10 weeks you will see little to no gains. I would use test p or test pp, along with npp, and throw in primo or eq.

I would run it like this:
1-8
Test
Npp
Eq or primo

9-11
Eq or primo

12-20
Test
Npp
Eq or primo

Do what you want with the oral, and a couple 3-4 week runs with the slin. I feel this will acheive better results then what you have listed others may disagree, but shorter blasts with higher dosages work better from what i have seen. I also didnt post any dosages, because you should decide that. This should also help with the prolactin issue.

[Huher]

I wouldn't run it like that, because 15 weeks is to long in my opinion, unless a more advanced protocol is utilized. After the first 8-10 weeks you will see little to no gains. I would use test p or test pp, along with npp, and throw in primo or eq.

I would run it like this:
1-8
Test
Npp
Eq or primo

9-11
Eq or primo

12-20
Test
Npp
Eq or primo

Do what you want with the oral, and a couple 3-4 week runs with the slin. I feel this will acheive better results then what you have listed others may disagree, but shorter blasts with higher dosages work better from what i have seen. I also didnt post any dosages, because you should decide that. This should also help with the prolactin issue.

That looks really good, but npp doesn't work for me really good, that's why I'm using deca instead. I always get more strength but less muscle from short esters like test p, npp, tren a.
I may add some ment, but it's very estrogenic and I'm afraid it will be much worse with a progestin like deca.
I think I'll try an advanced protocol instead of just throwing in 2-3 AAS for 15 weeks.

[GearHeaded]

That looks really good, but npp doesn't work for me really good, that's why I'm using deca instead. I always get more strength but less muscle from short esters like test p, npp, tren a.
I may add some ment, but it's very estrogenic and I'm afraid it will be much worse with a progestin like deca.
I think I'll try an advanced protocol instead of just throwing in 2-3 AAS for 15 weeks.

just an fyi - Ment IS a progestin based compound itself (its a 19 nor just like Tren and Deca). the reason why Ment is so estrogenic is via its progestin effects

having said that , I think Ment goes quite well with other 19 nors like Tren and Deca. you just need to have some Masteron in there to blunt some of the progestin

[JackMan017]

GH what's your opinion on using the shorter ester NPP vs the longer ester Deca? I'm flip flopping between the two can't decide which one to go with. Can I inject NPP mon/wed/fri? Basically 3 times p/wk? I'd rather pin less, hence the Deca. Just not 100% sure. Or if I'm just being too critical here? Planning for a Nandralone plus Test E cycle.

[GearHeaded]

GH what's your opinion on using the shorter ester NPP vs the longer ester Deca? I'm flip flopping between the two can't decide which one to go with. Can I inject NPP mon/wed/fri? Basically 3 times p/wk? I'd rather pin less, hence the Deca. Just not 100% sure. Or if I'm just being too critical here? Planning for a Nandralone plus Test E cycle.

I generally always run both together. I'll pin Deca once per week at like 250-500mg , then pin NPP at like 100mg every other day. the reason I run both together is for more consistently high levels.. the deca is your base and the NPP keeps you elevated. also things kick in much quicker running them both.
if I end up missing a shot of NPP , its no biggy cause again the Deca is still in there as your base

[JaneDoe]

Already said Dan Duchaine:


"If you can't grow with Deca, you can't grow at all."


What this means is that a simple test cycle plus Deca is one of the best cycles for gross earnings.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Already said Dan Duchaine:


"If you can't grow with Deca, you can't grow at all."


What this means is that a simple test cycle plus Deca is one of the best cycles for gross earnings.

Dan’s not wrong, but at the time he wrote that Deca was about the most powerful injectable they had at their disposal.

[Huher]

just an fyi - Ment IS a progestin based compound itself (its a 19 nor just like Tren and Deca). the reason why Ment is so estrogenic is via its progestin effects

having said that , I think Ment goes quite well with other 19 nors like Tren and Deca. you just need to have some Masteron in there to blunt some of the progestin

How much masteron would be needed to reach that effect?

[GearHeaded]

How much masteron would be needed to reach that effect?

I think 100mg EOD works great on cycle

[Huher]

I think 100mg EOD works great on cycle

So if I stay with this cycle and do it like this
1-4 40mg metha
1-12 1000mg test e
1-12 750mg deca
1-12 400mg mast e
1-10 150mg ment
With slin for 2x4 weeks
2x0.5mg arimidex if needed
Is it good now?

[Mooseman33]

huge cycle for young guy.

curious on ur stats brotha. That is going to be a wild ride for 12 weeks, please log it if you are going to go thru with it cause you are going to grow and grow.

[Cuz]

huge cycle for young guy.

curious on ur stats brotha. That is going to be a wild ride for 12 weeks, please log it if you are going to go thru with it cause you are going to grow and grow.

If I remember correctly he is pretty advanced and has a hell of a physique.. but agreed thats a hell of cycle

[Huher]

huge cycle for young guy.

curious on ur stats brotha. That is going to be a wild ride for 12 weeks, please log it if you are going to go thru with it cause you are going to grow and grow.

Huge cycle is needed to reach huge goals imo
I'm 6' 1, and around 235lbs with 13-4% bf. My goal is to reach 245-50 with that cycle and go above 260 until the end of 2020
I'll definitely log it, I wanna start it next week or the week after that

[Huher]

If I remember correctly he is pretty advanced and has a hell of a physique.. but agreed thats a hell of cycle

I'm far from having a hell of a physique, but I'm working on it really hard, thanks brother

[Charlie67]

Huge cycle is needed to reach huge goals imo
I'm 6' 1, and around 235lbs with 13-4% bf. My goal is to reach 245-50 with that cycle and go above 260 until the end of 2020
I'll definitely log it, I wanna start it next week or the week after that

Just curious how many calories your eating? I'm 6'1" and 245 at 48yra old.

[Huher]

Just curious how many calories your eating? I'm 6'1" and 245 at 48yra old.

I'm eating around 3300 now, but I got much leaner in my previous cycle, so I won't be afraid of carbohydrates and up that with fats too to get above 4000 this time.

[Arcânn]

I'm eating around 3300 now, but I got much leaner in my previous cycle, so I won't be afraid of carbohydrates and up that with fats too to get above 4000 this time.

235 lbs at 3300 calories???? That's wild!!! I'd love that haha

Then again, most men I know (who don't work out) weigh around that or more on ~1800-2000 calories

[Cuz]

235 lbs at 3300 calories???? That's wild!!! I'd love that haha

Then again, most men I know (who don't work out) weigh around that or more on ~1800-2000 calories

Lol aint that the truth its amazing what a bodybuilding 220lbs looks like vs an average 220lbs and so on. It just takes more to feed the muscle i think say on average bc so much i happening when we train energy wise

[Gallowmere]

235 lbs at 3300 calories???? That's wild!!! I'd love that haha

Then again, most men I know (who don't work out) weigh around that or more on ~1800-2000 calories

Not likely. Most people who don’t train generally know fuck all about how much they eat either. You’d be amazed at the looks I’ve seen on the faces of pubbies once I made them use a calorie tracker and a food scale for a week.
Usually followed by something like “holy shit, how am I eating that much?” I am normally able to quickly finger sodas, flavored coffee creamer and energy drinks for huge amounts of it.

[Huher]

235 lbs at 3300 calories???? That's wild!!! I'd love that haha

Then again, most men I know (who don't work out) weigh around that or more on ~1800-2000 calories

Most of my gym mates who weigh the same are usually on an around 4000 kcal diet. My basal metabolism is around 1900 without training.

[Iron Frenchie]

This is the only forum where it seems these kind of doses are accepted. You would get flamed on any other forum for saying this shit.

I’m running 150mg test e 300mg Deca and 300mg EQ and I bet I get 95% of the gains compared to the cycle you stated and I bet my blood looks wayyyy better.

[Gallowmere]

This is the only forum where it seems these kind of doses are accepted. You would get flamed on any other forum for saying this shit.

I’m running 150mg test e 300mg Deca and 300mg EQ and I bet I get 95% of the gains compared to the cycle you stated and I bet my blood looks wayyyy better.

Absolutely. I find myself wanting to scream at “up ze dose or you’re wasting a cycle” shitheads on social media all of the time. The fucked up part is that half of the guys swearing you need 2+ grams of shit to make progress barely look any bigger than me, and I’ve been at this for a VERY short period of time.

[Cuz]

This is the only forum where it seems these kind of doses are accepted. You would get flamed on any other forum for saying this shit.

I’m running 150mg test e 300mg Deca and 300mg EQ and I bet I get 95% of the gains compared to the cycle you stated and I bet my blood looks wayyyy better.

I wouldn’t go that far, this is actually still one of the more conservative boards imo. I’ve seen drol and dbol run simultaneously at 100mg daily on other boards

I myself prefer low dose ive seen great results on low dose cycles

[Huher]

This is the only forum where it seems these kind of doses are accepted. You would get flamed on any other forum for saying this shit.

I’m running 150mg test e 300mg Deca and 300mg EQ and I bet I get 95% of the gains compared to the cycle you stated and I bet my blood looks wayyyy better.

Probably you have superior genetics then, be happy. I'm sure that your cycle wouldn't give me 50% of the gains that I gain on only 1g test. I'm also sure that you don't gain not even near to 95%. As GearHeaded said 1g and above test is way different than 750mg, although it's not a huge difference in amounts.
Besides, I wanna compete on a high level, and I have a kinda mentality that I don't wanna waste my time gaining like 4 pounds of muscle in 15 weeks with low dose cycles, cus if I do, I'd have to do very harsh and extreme cycles later on to catch up with the other guys. 2.5 grams now is better than 5+ grams later.

[Kyle1337]

Most of my gym mates who weigh the same are usually on an around 4000 kcal diet. My basal metabolism is around 1900 without training.

Man that'd be nice. I burn 1900 with just a sneeze.

I feel ya on the gear though, I may not need this gear, but big goals require big commitment, right?

6'1" 232# 14-16% BF 4200-4500 calories a day. My lowest cut I do is 3100 LOL.

On too many drugs (test, tren, deca, mast, anadrol, hgh, insulin, t4, mk677, oral tren, etc etc)

Can't wait for my next phase of 200mg test, 400mg primo and 10mg var. this gonna be my simple stack lol

[GearHeaded]

guys keep in mind that the drugs you take can effect your TDEE , maintenance calories and nutrient partitioning.

so if your TDEE is 2000 calories per day normally then you take a gram of Test and 500mg of Tren, suddenly your TDEE is now 2500 yet you've changed nothing else.. add caffeine, clen, T3, or any other drugs and that also changes.

not only does the TDEE change and alter, but the partitioning of the nutrients themselves also do. depending on what your taking you now may be able to store way more glycogen, minerals, and nutrients in muscle cells . you may be holding more nutrients and water in your blood and organs. the protein you now eat is used more efficiently and when natty you may of needed 250g of protein per day but now on drugs that 250 is optimized and utilized all up (you could easily take in more and use it up, or you could take in less yet still have sufficient protein synthesis) .

things change when you add drugs to the mix.


if your natty and making gains at 2200 cals per day, If you add in drugs you may find yourself eating 4000 cals per day.

a lot of guys make the mistake of adding in too many drugs with not enough food/nutrients (not just calories but actual nutrition). the drugs REQUIRE certain nutrients and mineral as 'co factors' in order to work. the food isn't only a fuel for your body its a fuel for the drugs themselves to carry out their actions. you don't get something out of nothing. drugs are not magic. they need nutrients and co factors to work properly.

your cycle is going to be best optimized by your diet and fueling not only yourself but the drugs your taking as well. they need energy. they don't just make something out of nothing

[Gallowmere]

guys keep in mind that the drugs you take can effect your TDEE , maintenance calories and nutrient partitioning.

so if your TDEE is 2000 calories per day normally then you take a gram of Test and 500mg of Tren, suddenly your TDEE is now 2500 yet you've changed nothing else.. add caffeine, clen, T3, or any other drugs and that also changes.

not only does the TDEE change and alter, but the partitioning of the nutrients themselves also do. depending on what your taking you now may be able to store way more glycogen, minerals, and nutrients in muscle cells . you may be holding more nutrients and water in your blood and organs. the protein you now eat is used more efficiently and when natty you may of needed 250g of protein per day but now on drugs that 250 is optimized and utilized all up (you could easily take in more and use it up, or you could take in less yet still have sufficient protein synthesis) .

things change when you add drugs to the mix.


if your natty and making gains at 2200 cals per day, If you add in drugs you may find yourself eating 4000 cals per day.

a lot of guys make the mistake of adding in too many drugs with not enough food/nutrients (not just calories but actual nutrition). the drugs REQUIRE certain nutrients and mineral as 'co factors' in order to work. the food isn't only a fuel for your body its a fuel for the drugs themselves to carry out their actions. you don't get something out of nothing. drugs are not magic. they need nutrients and co factors to work properly.

your cycle is going to be best optimized by your diet and fueling not only yourself but the drugs your taking as well. they need energy. they don't just make something out of nothing

This reminded me of something I heard Broderick say once. “Drugs don’t grow shit. Drugs just send information to your cells to tell them how to do things. Your body still has to be able to do the biological work.”

[GearHeaded]

This reminded me of something I heard Broderick say once. “Drugs don’t grow shit. Drugs just send information to your cells to tell them how to do things. Your body still has to be able to do the biological work.”

Broderick is someone I follow and respect highly . me and him think the same way about a lot of AAS stuff. the "biological'' aspects of AAS use is often times completely disregarded, yet its highly important. his having a degree in biology definitely is refreshing

[DrRoid]

yes Broderick is great, watch here from 48 Min :
https://youtu.be/HZWtfOLzRDk

He explains that zinc and chromium supplementation makes sense for enhanced athletes.
The hormones just trigger the metabolic pathways at a greater level. In order make them work properly you need more cofactors, the threhold for zinc suppl. e.g. increases.

Would be interesting if a good multi vitamin is sufficient...