Aas oral: Kick-start vs continuous cycle

[JaneDoe]

Davi here greeting you all. Today's topic is to get your thoughts on the idea of ​​using oral AAS throughout the cycle instead of just using KICK-START !!


Our good friend GH commented on this in a previous topic - that many of us can benefit a lot more if we use oral AAS throughout the cycle by simply lowering the dosage as the AAS cycle progresses.

[JaneDoe]

[anabolictheviking]

Yes it works too

[GearHeaded]

I think orals are extremely effective. because of their methylation and first pass of the liver they illicit things and metabolites that injectibles do not , like for example Dbol generating a direct hepatic up regulation of IGF and its extremely potent form of estrogen it converts to (where as EQ, which is the same chemical compound as Dbol just in injectible form, does neither of these things)

I think orals can be used a lot more often then just as a 'kickstart' . I like them to be part of most cycles and will also rotate different orals.. dbol may be ran during a volumization phase of the cycle, then Var during an anabolic phase, then Winstrol during an anti cortisol phase, etc.

[anabolictheviking]

Honestly, I'm not a fan of oral steroids - I just use them to implement my gains for just a few weeks.

You'll find guys using oral almost all year long and advocating that.
You can't fall in love with everything you are told here on the forum, many will say that drinking alcohol will affect your liver much more than using long-term Dianabol , which is not true!
In the long run, you have a high chance of liver disease.
I'm just warning that running too much oral AAS may have a consequence in the future ...
But I'm not the owner of the truth, follow as you please.

[GearHeaded]

its all about weighing the risks for yourself .

if you abuse oral AAS is it possible to lead to a liver problem when your 60 .. yes maybe

if you use injectible AAS is it possible to get an infection from the injection now and end up losing your leg .. yes maybe

if you use a diuretic incorrectly is it possible to instantly die of heart failure .. yes (happens every year to guys)


everything has risks. the risk between oral vs injectible AAS are different risks, but they still both have risks.

I'm Irish an have a family history of no one ever having liver problems (and thats with a family history of alcohol abuse) . your family history may be different and you may want to limit oral steroid use .

the only time AAS use has put me in the hospital was from a bad injection that lead to an infection and me being hospitalized for 2 weeks .. never had a bad reaction to an oral though .
thats being said, if I'm on a cycle I'm still injecting daily and doing orals on top of it. I accept all the risks of either

[anabolictheviking]

I respect your view of this, but honestly I would not advise anyone to run a cycle with many oral AAS, especially the whole cycle.
As you are a great master of anabolic drug science, you should know that every body will react in a way - and the risks of the future cannot be forewarned.
I respect you very GH, but you can not indicate this to anyone.

[GearHeaded]

keep in mind that a majority of oral AAS are used in medicine to treat and prevent disease, sickness, illness and to extend a persons life .
the idea that a drug thats generally meant to heal the sick is going to be 'toxic' and kill you , is not that likely .

a simple Tylenol that you take for a headache and buy at the local store is far more toxic and deadly then any oral AAS.. people over dose and die on that shit all the time , but never heard of anyone accidentally over dosing on Dbol

[GearHeaded]

I respect your view of this, but honestly I would not advise anyone to run a cycle with many oral AAS, especially the whole cycle.
As you are a great master of anabolic drug science, you should know that every body will react in a way - and the risks of the future cannot be forewarned.
I respect you very GH, but you can not indicate this to anyone.

this is mainly dosage dependent ..its the 'dosage that makes the poison' .. example, cyanide poison can be taken orally and not kill you or harm you, as long as the dosage is low enough . but if the dosage is high enough its a poison.
same with most things in life . too much water consumed at one time will kill you.

oral steroids are "liver toxic" .. um then why is Anavar prescribed to treat liver disease ? its because the dosage itself is what makes something toxic or not.
10mg of Var per day can help heal the liver .. abusing 100mg of Var per day can cause problems. but its pretty much that way with everything in life.

2 glasses of wine per night has health benefits, 2 bottles of wine per night has health consequences

oral AAS are not 'bad' in and of themselves. they are a medicine that heals and treats diseases. its your 'dosage' or abuse of things that have the health consequences

[bomb_r2]

My question is
If you incorporate orals into a cycle , would you gain more size as opposed to just injectables ( excluding injectable dbol ,sdrol,anadrol )
Like would i gain 1/16 or 1/8 more in size assuming my goal was size with a surplus calorie diet ?

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[anabolictheviking]

Tylenol is safe whenever the recommended doses are adhered to. Can it be used continuously in low dose patients in patients suffering from liver disease and Dianabol ? Dianabol is not safe, if a man is prone to developing liver disease, Dianabol will accelerate this even at low doses.
Many believe that drugs sold in pharmacies cause disease and are demonized, not exactly. There are many studies in pharmacology before drugs are sold on drugstore shelves!

[anabolictheviking]

My question is
If you incorporate orals into a cycle , would you gain more size as opposed to just injectables ( excluding injectable dbol ,sdrol,anadrol )
Like would i gain 1/16 or 1/8 more in size assuming my goal was size with a surplus calorie diet ?

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Yes it can give you gross gains, but you must understand that it is completely harmful to the liver.The limit of 4-6 weeks must be respected.But you will find disagreement with my opinion

[bomb_r2]

I've seen liver cirrhosis with a now deceased friend. He used dbol with anti depressants and drank heavily . Died at 44 .

Whats your opinion on injectable mtren?
I know its highly toxic but it is all the rage

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[GearHeaded]

Tylenol is safe whenever the recommended doses are adhered to. Can it be used continuously in low dose patients in patients suffering from liver disease and Dianabol ? Dianabol is not safe, if a man is prone to developing liver disease, Dianabol will accelerate this even at low doses.
Many believe that drugs sold in pharmacies cause disease and are demonized, not exactly. There are many studies in pharmacology before drugs are sold on drugstore shelves!

whats in bold is true. these drugs had to be studied and get FDA approval to be on drug store shelves.. a majority of the oral AAS we take are exactly these drugs.
if they were that 'deadly' then how did they ever get on the drug store shelf in the first place, and they are still prescribed to millions of people world wide.

I don't know , if you go to your local hospital and visit all the sick people with various ailments, I'm just betting your probably not going to find any bodybuilders their sick and dying of liver disease cause they used oral AAS in their cycle .. most the people there are sick and dying from diabetes , eating mcdonalds twice a day, or abusing rec drugs.
steroid use is rampant across the world. but rarely do you hear of anyone dying from using oral AAS . imo, they are one of the safest drugs on the planet in comparison to others .

the whole oral AAS = liver toxicity is over blown by supplement companies trying to sell you liver support sups. they are making money off peoples fear and mis information.

when doctors prescribe 50mg of Anadrol to a patient, they don't send them home with a bottle of liver support sups along with that.. and if oral AAS was that toxic, then docs would be doing a dis service prescribing things like Anadrol, Halotestin , Anavar , etc.


everything has risk and we should be responsible with what we take and our dosages . but in general , I personally believe the whole oral AAS toxicity issue is completely over blown and exaggerated . your likely to cause more liver stress from eating fast food with trans fat and canola oil then you are from running oral AAS in reasonable dosages

[GearHeaded]

also something to keep in mind , what makes a drug 'toxic' or poisonous is its effective dose to deadly dose ratio.

so take heroin for example. thats fairly toxic because its effective dose to get someone high is very close to its deadly dose where you can over dose and die from it.
where as marijuana is just the opposite, it really does not take very much weed to illicit its effects, however it does not really even have a 'deadly dose' or over dose factor. so its much safer.

look at Tylenol. its an over the counter common drug. yet its effective dose of and its 'deadly dose' where you over dose and die from using it (happens to thousands of people) are fairly close together in comparison to other drugs. like oral AAS.
like Anavar for example , its effective at only 2.5mg per day. yet guys can take 100mg (50x the effective dose) and be totally fine. heck ain't no one ever over dosed on Anavar.

so really oral AAS , compared to a ton of other drugs, are not very "toxic" at all and are pretty damn safe, when you look at their effective dose vs over dose ratios.
again, probably some of the safest drugs on the planet in comparison. if you wanted to kill someone by poisoning them, you likely couldn't do it with oral AAS (yet there are 100s of other drugs that you could)


note - I'm talking oral AAS only. not talking diuretics and fat burners which are far more 'toxic' and dangerous . you can easily kill someone with a diuretic or fat burner , but your not going to kill someone with Dbol (which is pretty common sense way to think that most oral AAS are not really that 'toxic' at all)

even alcohol , which is totally legal and socially acceptable . has a very close ratio of effective dose to deadly dose. people die all the time from its consumption and over dose.
again, you never hear of anyone over dosing on some Dbol pills

[GearHeaded]

Whats your opinion on injectable mtren?
I know its highly toxic but it is all the rage

I've never personally used it. I know of people that have.. its plenty effective but so are a lot of other AAS.
wither its injectible or oral , the supposed "Toxicity" is nearly the same . too many guys think that when you take a methylated drug and put it into injectible form instead of oral that it somehow bypasses the liver , this is not true. the only thing thats altered is the absorption bioavailability

[bomb_r2]

I've never personally used it. I know of people that have.. its plenty effective but so are a lot of other AAS.
wither its injectible or oral , the supposed "Toxicity" is nearly the same . too many guys think that when you take a methylated drug and put it into injectible form instead of oral that it somehow bypasses the liver , this is not true. the only thing thats altered is the absorption bioavailability

I've heard oral methyl can NOT be broken down by the liver , that you get something like 99% absorption , ive heard injecting gets like 70% .
Do you have any clue if thats true ?

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[GearHeaded]

I've heard oral methyl can NOT be broken down by the liver , that you get something like 99% absorption , ive heard injecting gets like 70% .
Do you have any clue if thats true ?

no doubt injectible is likely much more bio available. but oral is still effective from what I know.. one guy I know that has run oral methyltren is mike Arnold , whose a respectable "guru" in the industry and knows his shit pretty well, he ran 1mg per day and it was very effective for him. so I'm just taking his personal word , again I have no hands on experience

[GearHeaded]

it often depends on the drug and the person whose taking it and how they metabolize it.

for most guys Winstrol is the same wither injected or oral .. Anavar , don't waste your time with injectible. Dbol injectible, 30mg is like 50+mg of oral.
again, even if its made into an injectible administration, its still 17 alkylated and thus "liver toxic" .. removing the 17 alkylation would essentially be creating a whole new compound (like EQ is simply Dbol without the alkylation)

[bomb_r2]

I wish Patrick Arnold was around the boards to explain chemical reactions inside the body when an oral is made to injectable

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