Taking 250mg a week for first cycle?

[TheGypsyKing]

My body is sensitive to everything. And I'm wondering whether doing 125mg 2x a week or some lesser version sounds like a reasonable idea?

[Obs]

250 per week is a higher side trt.

First cyle run more in the range of 500-750mg

[GearHeaded]

how about just not running test if you think your sensitive.. nothing wrong with the 20+ other steroids out there that build muscle at much lower mg per mg doses

[Dgs59]

250 - Good for sex (high trt dose)
500 onwards, you will see the difference in growth


I hit 250 for few weeks at one stage, didn't feel much, 500 makes me feel like a superman in and outside the gym.

[Ernst]

My first cycle was 350mg/wk.

I loved it but I really wouldn't go lower than that. Great results can be had at 350 or 400.

[AR's King Silabolin]

how about just not running test if you think your sensitive.. nothing wrong with the 20+ other steroids out there that build muscle at much lower mg per mg doses

Personally i dont agree. Running a cycle without a testbase, is not a good idea.
Everything thats hits the ARs is supressive and in 4-5 weeks, u will get tired wo test.
Even SARMs will supress your own test after 4 weeks.
Even testbased roids like dianabol and the superandrogenic trenbolone, can never be a replacement for test, when it comes to feelgood.
Im talking from own experiences, not broscience, studies and theori.
Beeing sensitive is not an argue. 500 mg test is very safe. Some says u can run it for life. Just make sure u dial in with AIs.
U can start with 250, then up to 500 after 5 weeks if GTG.

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[GearHeaded]

Personally i dont agree. Running a cycle without a testbase, is not a good idea.
Everything thats hits the ARs is supressive and in 4-5 weeks, u will get tired wo test.
Even SARMs will supress your own test after 4 weeks.
Even testbased roids like dianabol and the superandrogenic trenbolone, can never be a replacement for test, when it comes to feelgood.
Im talking from own experiences, not broscience, studies and theori.
Beeing sensitive is not an argue. 500 mg test is very safe. Some says u can run it for life. Just make sure u dial in with AIs.
U can start with 250, then up to 500 after 5 weeks if GTG.

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I'm not trying to be an ass here . but your kinda contradicting yourself here.

one of the only reasons why test is so "magic" and 'needed' on cycle is because it converts to estrogen. which is a necessary hormone.
the suppression of other dugs, and things like SARMs which you mentioned, is true but they also don't convert to estrogen. so your suppression simply is a suppression of estrogen itself.
thats what makes test important.

YET you end your statement with saying to use AI's . which suppresses the conversion of Test to estrogen in the first place.

do you see the contradiction here ?


I agree that Test can definitely be beneficial on cycle. but thats mainly because of its conversion to estrogen.
if you run a SARMs only cycle, and SARMs don't convert to estrogen , the long term problem with the suppression that happens is because your estrogen drops to nothing. its not cause your Test is shut down, your androgen receptors are fully stimulated. its the estrogen receptors that are not.

ive ran plenty of no test cycles. they can be done no problem. but the main reason we need Test is for the estrogen. yet you say test is needed and then say to run an AI with it. thats a contradiction. cause again the reason you need the Test is for the estrogen itself.
estrogen controls the male libido and sexual function (not Test), Estrogen plays a role in glucose metabolism, in HGH and IGF production, in hepatic hdl cholesterol production , in nitric oxide and vascular dilation, etc. etc..

so saying that test is necessary on cycle . yet saying to take another drug that blocks the whole purpose of why test is necessary in the first place is a total contradiction. imo

[Windex]

250mg Test + 400mg Primo
Use a well reviewed source.
14-16 weeks

Bingo bango Bob's your uncle.

[Arcânn]

I personally lowered my dose to 300 for this first cycle I'm on, due to BP, which is still very elevated but I'm not losing sleep over it. And I just got some extra help with that so we'll see. But I'm still seeing good results not even 6 weeks in. At 400-500 I'm sure I'd be seeing much better, but I wouldn't call my current cycle a waste by any stretch. Right now it seems to be about the perfect balance of results and sides. The only sides so far are acne and BP, but both are at manageable levels with just 300.

Obviously, this doesn't mean you'll experience the same thing at a similar dose. Everyone is different. But it's worth noting that at 300, there are people like me who still respond. I'm sure there are those who do 500 on a first cycle and get nothing out of it. Who knows.

[Ashop]

My body is sensitive to everything. And I'm wondering whether doing 125mg 2x a week or some lesser version sounds like a reasonable idea?

In my early years I made fantastic gains on only 250mg per week of other TEST ENAN or SUST. Of course my diet and training were essential to that as well.

[almostgone]

250mg Test + 400mg Primo
Use a well reviewed source.
14-16 weeks

Bingo bango Bob's your uncle.

That is a good combo, but like you pointed out, make sure you use a reputable source.

[Test Monsterone]

250 mg/week would probably work if you never reached your genetic limit (or close to it). If you have, it probably wouldn’t do anything. I was at my genetic limit when I took my first cycle, and I needed upwards of 700 mg of test to even feel anything, but I may also respond less to certain compounds than others.

Other guys that took steroids at 19, then fuck, even milk and cereal would make you grow.

[Cuz]

Fuck man just run it, log your results and come back. Nobody is going to know what will happen. Will you grow? Probably so, how much? To many variables...

Tell you what...long time ago after i came off a very long break from training i got my hands on a bottle of sust 250...i went from 194 to 228 with that one fucking bottle doing 1 cc eow. Nobody believed me when i joined but i didnt give a shit i knew what i could do thats the attitude you should have too. Run this run that hell its all suggestions man you have to find what works for you and do it

[Obs]

Fuck man just run it, log your results and come back. Nobody is going to know what will happen. Will you grow? Probably so, how much? To many variables...

Tell you what...long time ago after i came off a very long break from training i got my hands on a bottle of sust 250...i went from 194 to 228 with that one fucking bottle doing 1 cc eow. Nobody believed me when i joined but i didnt give a shit i knew what i could do thats the attitude you should have too. Run this run that hell its all suggestions man you have to find what works for you and do it

I believe you!
You always ran low doses and responded amazing!
I gained similar but with a much higher dose coming back.
Who's to say I couldn't have done the same with less?

[Cuz]

I believe you!
You always ran low doses and responded amazing!
I gained similar but with a much higher dose coming back.
Who's to say I couldn't have done the same with less?

I know you do bro and im grateful for it honestly. The world may never know if you would have had the same results with lower doses lol seriously tho im gonna run high dose probably not as high you but something a tad more drastic i feel like im leveling out and if i want to proceed i may have to increase the drugs.

[Obs]

I know you do bro and im grateful for it honestly. The world may never know if you would have had the same results with lower doses lol seriously tho im gonna run high dose probably not as high you but something a tad more drastic i feel like im leveling out and if i want to proceed i may have to increase the drugs.

I am looking to do the opposite.
I am gonna try moving back to lower doses.
I just dont know what to run with what.
A lot of guys have talked up mk677.
Sil praised it always for long term use.
I think I need to move to lower dose and get off the stims and just maintain. I am going to kill myself before I get the time to devote to be where I want.

I have neglected my health way too long.

Gonna have to start matching my dose to get by like bg said. Blasting grams and grams being dehydrated and busting ass is gonna get me lol.

[Obs]

Maybe Deca at 200 a week sust @ 250 and mk677?
Slin a couple days a week fairly heavy on days off.

I just dont know.
Totally lost myself from being as devoted to this as I was.

[Test Monsterone]

Obs I think it’s a good idea to focus more on efficient usage with proper nutrition. I myself need to get on a solid diet plan but my ex and her 3 animals are living with me since her house is getting remodeled, so I haven’t lifted in two weeks and I’m still on a cycle. I’m all veiny and pumped helping her paint and do drywall. Making those remodeler gains. To be honest, my whole body was sore from a day of working on her house. I know you have a physically demanding job, and I commend you for being able to keep up with your workouts. I have to paint some walls and move some appliances and I’m like fuck the gym.

[AR's King Silabolin]

I'm not trying to be an ass here . but your kinda contradicting yourself here.

one of the only reasons why test is so "magic" and 'needed' on cycle is because it converts to estrogen. which is a necessary hormone.
the suppression of other dugs, and things like SARMs which you mentioned, is true but they also don't convert to estrogen. so your suppression simply is a suppression of estrogen itself.
thats what makes test important.

YET you end your statement with saying to use AI's . which suppresses the conversion of Test to estrogen in the first place.

do you see the contradiction here ?


I agree that Test can definitely be beneficial on cycle. but thats mainly because of its conversion to estrogen.
if you run a SARMs only cycle, and SARMs don't convert to estrogen , the long term problem with the suppression that happens is because your estrogen drops to nothing. its not cause your Test is shut down, your androgen receptors are fully stimulated. its the estrogen receptors that are not.

ive ran plenty of no test cycles. they can be done no problem. but the main reason we need Test is for the estrogen. yet you say test is needed and then say to run an AI with it. thats a contradiction. cause again the reason you need the Test is for the estrogen itself.
estrogen controls the male libido and sexual function (not Test), Estrogen plays a role in glucose metabolism, in HGH and IGF production, in hepatic hdl cholesterol production , in nitric oxide and vascular dilation, etc. etc..

so saying that test is necessary on cycle . yet saying to take another drug that blocks the whole purpose of why test is necessary in the first place is a total contradiction. imo

Ur not an ass. Only from discussions we move on.
But i do not agree. All testbased steroids converts to estrogen. And dianabol converts like a mf. Some says even 25% of the tren converts. So there is more to it than degree of estrogen convertion. I feel bad on a dianabol only cycle, even if it will give me plenty of e2.
Nor the AIuse is contradictional. I say dial it in. A guy should use the dose which leave him in the upper high range of e2.

But again, i just talking from my own experiences. 26 years, 2 cycles a year.
And i can also say, all the gurues who were here before agreed on running cycles wo test, as a base or as the major component, is stupid.
Gosh that sounded harssh lol. I really dont give a rats ass who gets the last word and who knows more. My trench is in the gym. Im just here to pratice english and make Obs life as miserable as i can lol

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[Gallowmere]

Ur not an ass. Only from discussions we move on.
But i do not agree. All testbased steroids converts to estrogen. And dianabol converts like a mf. Some says even 25% of the tren converts. So there is more to it than degree of estrogen convertion. I feel bad on a dianabol only cycle, even if it will give me plenty of e2.
Nor the AIuse is contradictional. I say dial it in. A guy should use the dose which leave him in the upper high range of e2.

But again, i just talking from my own experiences. 26 years, 2 cycles a year.
And i can also say, all the gurues who were here before agreed on running cycles wo test, as a base or as the major component, is stupid.
Gosh that sounded harssh lol. I really dont give a rats ass who gets the last word and who knows more. My trench is in the gym. Im just here to pratice english and make Obs life as miserable as i can lol

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The aromatic metabolite of dianabol isn’t normal estradiol. It’s a weird ass frankenhormone that is methylated estradiol. It binds harder and has much more pronounced effects on receptors than E2 from non-methyl test. Such is why dbol aromatizes far less than test but causes more pronounced effects in that realm.

[AR's King Silabolin]

The aromatic metabolite of dianabol isn’t normal estradiol. It’s a weird ass frankenhormone that is methylated estradiol. It binds harder and has much more pronounced effects on receptors than E2 from non-methyl test. Such is why dbol aromatizes far less than test but causes more pronounced effects in that realm.

Ah.. Nice. Thanks. Did u know that, GH?

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[charger69]

Ur not an ass. Only from discussions we move on.
But i do not agree. All testbased steroids converts to estrogen. And dianabol converts like a mf. Some says even 25% of the tren converts. So there is more to it than degree of estrogen convertion. I feel bad on a dianabol only cycle, even if it will give me plenty of e2.
Nor the AIuse is contradictional. I say dial it in. A guy should use the dose which leave him in the upper high range of e2.

But again, i just talking from my own experiences. 26 years, 2 cycles a year.
And i can also say, all the gurues who were here before agreed on running cycles wo test, as a base or as the major component, is stupid.
Gosh that sounded harssh lol. I really dont give a rats ass who gets the last word and who knows more. My trench is in the gym. Im just here to pratice english and make Obs life as miserable as i can lol

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Are you saying tren is a test based steroid?

Not here to argue: but take someone gyno prone and have them take 1g test and later 500 test and 500 primo.
In the first scenario- gyno
In the second - no gyno.
Note :l just used mixtures for example purposes.


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[GearHeaded]

Ah.. Nice. Thanks. Did u know that, GH?

yes , I've always used the term that dbol converts to a more "biologically available" for of estradiol . but I like Gallows term "frankenhormonoe" as well .

this is one of the benefits of Dbol. not a negative.. thats why Dbol is added in to estrogenic phases of cycles and works quite well for that.
also , I've added D Bol at only 10mg per day to no test cycles for sole purpose of providing a powerful form of E. it does not take much and I never experienced low E sides

[GearHeaded]

Ur not an ass. Only from discussions we move on.
But i do not agree. All testbased steroids converts to estrogen. And dianabol converts like a mf. Some says even 25% of the tren converts. So there is more to it than degree of estrogen convertion. I feel bad on a dianabol only cycle, even if it will give me plenty of e2.
Nor the AIuse is contradictional. I say dial it in. A guy should use the dose which leave him in the upper high range of e2.

But again, i just talking from my own experiences. 26 years, 2 cycles a year.
And i can also say, all the gurues who were here before agreed on running cycles wo test, as a base or as the major component, is stupid.
Gosh that sounded harssh lol. I really dont give a rats ass who gets the last word and who knows more. My trench is in the gym. Im just here to pratice english and make Obs life as miserable as i can lol

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a majority of the drugs we have access to for AAS do NOT convert to estrogen to any considerable degree.
Test, Ment, Dbol, Chaque drops . thats about it.

yet
Masteron, primo, dhb, stenbolone, winny, var, tren, methyl tren, superdrol, T bol, Deca, Eq, SARMS .. all do NOT aromatize to any real degree . if you took anyone of these drugs as a stand alone by itself then your Estrogen levels will likely plummet.

so just saying we have plenty more non estrogenic drugs to chose from.

BUT this is why Test is good as a base of a cycle (I agree with you) ,, its because we need the estrogen conversion from the Test, and nothing else converts to E quite like test.

but , non Test based cycles also work. you can still get some estrogen needs met if stacked properly , or maybe your trying to purposely run a low E cycle .

something like Tren with a little bit of Dbol . Tren will sensitize your estrogen receptors to estrogen, it will also bind strongly to the androgen receptors,, but there is no actual estrogen coming in cause Tren does not aromatize . so throw in just a tad bit of Dbol and now you do have some coming in..

or if your not sensitive to exogenous test just yeah run test as your base

[TheGypsyKing]

Fuck man just run it, log your results and come back. Nobody is going to know what will happen. Will you grow? Probably so, how much? To many variables...

Tell you what...long time ago after i came off a very long break from training i got my hands on a bottle of sust 250...i went from 194 to 228 with that one fucking bottle doing 1 cc eow. Nobody believed me when i joined but i didnt give a shit i knew what i could do thats the attitude you should have too. Run this run that hell its all suggestions man you have to find what works for you and do it

I'm just looking for suggestions and advice as I'm a total noob to it. I'd feel more comfortable being at a lower dose, so fine I'll go with that.

But what is your opinion on using an AI the whole time, an HCG and a PCT? The bulletin "perfect" first cycle says to do all that, everyone else is saying f that, just use an AI. What's really best practice to avoid test shutdown post cycle, gyno, etc.

And do any of you also do peptides? They seem like a lot safer, more beneficial/healthy if you get the real thing and not some bunk sh*t.

[TheGypsyKing]

250 mg/week would probably work if you never reached your genetic limit (or close to it). If you have, it probably wouldn’t do anything. I was at my genetic limit when I took my first cycle, and I needed upwards of 700 mg of test to even feel anything, but I may also respond less to certain compounds than others.

Other guys that took steroids at 19, then fuck, even milk and cereal would make you grow.

Why would milk and cereal then make you grow? Does taking test at 19 make your test receptors more sensitive permanently?

My body is very sensitive to meds, substances. One hit of weed and I'm gone. I just don't want to be the guy who ends up in the ER because his body responds so strongly to the test that bad things happen.

[TheGypsyKing]

That is a good combo, but like you pointed out, make sure you use a reputable source.

No idea how to find a reputable source. My gym is very standoff-ish. Def lots of guys there on juice but not approachable.

[TheGypsyKing]

In my early years I made fantastic gains on only 250mg per week of other TEST ENAN or SUST. Of course my diet and training were essential to that as well.

So what was your protocol? 125mg 2x/W, and then what about AI, PCT, HCG or anything else?

I'm not worried about the diet component, which everyone seems to freak out about. I eat very healthily and between the whole foods I eat and the protein powder, it's no problem getting the amount of protein I need.

I'd just really like to minimize the potential for something bad to happen, get some sweet gains, and figure a way to add in legit peptides which can help my body with inflammation, bone health and other good things.

[TheGypsyKing]

how about just not running test if you think your sensitive.. nothing wrong with the 20+ other steroids out there that build muscle at much lower mg per mg doses

Firstly, everyone says Test should be your first cycle. Secondly, every med has a different mg per dose. Fentanyl dose is 1/30th of an oxycontin, but that doesn't make it safer at all.

[TheGypsyKing]

250 - Good for sex (high trt dose)
500 onwards, you will see the difference in growth


I hit 250 for few weeks at one stage, didn't feel much, 500 makes me feel like a superman in and outside the gym.

And what were your side effects? And what did your bloodwork look like?

Did you run an AI the whole time, PCT after?

[TheGypsyKing]

Personally i dont agree. Running a cycle without a testbase, is not a good idea.
Everything thats hits the ARs is supressive and in 4-5 weeks, u will get tired wo test.
Even SARMs will supress your own test after 4 weeks.
Even testbased roids like dianabol and the superandrogenic trenbolone, can never be a replacement for test, when it comes to feelgood.
Im talking from own experiences, not broscience, studies and theori.
Beeing sensitive is not an argue. 500 mg test is very safe. Some says u can run it for life. Just make sure u dial in with AIs.
U can start with 250, then up to 500 after 5 weeks if GTG.

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So you recommend running an AI the whole time? Then doing the PCT?

[i_SLAM_cougars]

I don’t personally feel like 250mg of test is worth shutting your natural production down for (unless you’re natty production is dog shit), but it’s a good base to throw is 400mg of primo a week, or 50mg of Anavar a day.

[GearHeaded]

Firstly, everyone says Test should be your first cycle.

who is everyone ? you mean your newbie friends and some random guys on forums

test only is a fine first cycle. but there are better options. and these other options having been done in not only bodybuilding for the last 40 years but also in sports performance. high level coaches from bodybuilding to coaches that coach track and field athletes have been utilizing non "test only" first cycles forever. cause they work and are often times much more effective then test only and can lead to less side effects as well .

150mg of test with 25mg Var per day and 300mg of Primo, is going to be more effective first cycle then 500mg of test with an AI .


nothing wrong with test only for a first cycle . but its just not the most optimal compared to other options.

its like buying your 16 year old son an old 1938 Ford Model T with a crank start and no seat belts for his first car to learn to drive on .. or getting him a newer more modern more optimized car with all the safety features .

Test is the ford model T -- other drugs are far more modernized and optimal

[TheGypsyKing]

who is everyone ? you mean your newbie friends and some random guys on forums

test only is a fine first cycle. but there are better options. and these other options having been done in not only bodybuilding for the last 40 years but also in sports performance. high level coaches from bodybuilding to coaches that coach track and field athletes have been utilizing non "test only" first cycles forever. cause they work and are often times much more effective then test only and can lead to less side effects as well .

150mg of test with 25mg Var per day and 300mg of Primo, is going to be more effective first cycle then 500mg of test with an AI .


nothing wrong with test only for a first cycle . but its just not the most optimal compared to other options.

its like buying your 16 year old son an old 1938 Ford Model T with a crank start and no seat belts for his first car to learn to drive on .. or getting him a newer more modern more optimized car with all the safety features .

Test is the ford model T -- other drugs are far more modernized and optimal

Anyone else co-sign this?

[Windex]

Here is the problem with Test only cycles, it's not the cycle or compound, it's the person using it.

- My nipples itched once, time to take an AI like its gatorade after a marathon

- Injection site sore? Must have gotten an infection

- Blood spilled out post injection ? 9-1-1 I'm going to die from bleeding

Meanwhile the person isn't eating properly, training anywhere close to maximum velocity, nor sleep optimized.

It's a bloody hormone not a rec drug. Beans and rice don't grow muscle either.

[GearHeaded]

Anyone else co-sign this?

lol your joking right ? dude go do some real research on the subject for a couple years and then come back so your equipped enough to ask real and valid questions. you know there are such things as actual books and medical journals you can actually read all about AAS usage.

and being you don't look like you even lift , during those 2 years of AAS research you may want to actually start lifting and eating properly as well

[Cuz]

I'm just looking for suggestions and advice as I'm a total noob to it. I'd feel more comfortable being at a lower dose, so fine I'll go with that.

But what is your opinion on using an AI the whole time, an HCG and a PCT? The bulletin "perfect" first cycle says to do all that, everyone else is saying f that, just use an AI. What's really best practice to avoid test shutdown post cycle, gyno, etc.

And do any of you also do peptides? They seem like a lot safer, more beneficial/healthy if you get the real thing and not some bunk sh*t.

Never used hcg in 15 years
Id get an AI to have just in case i needed chances are you wont but it would help for the “just in case” factor

You will need to run Pct to try and get your body to produce natural testosterone again sometimes it does sometimes it doesn’t but i think chances are it would on such a mild little run

Never ran a peptide in my life. Dont plan on it mass isnt rocket science there is no secret fucking formula. Its test deca dbol food and heavy fuckin weight

[GearHeaded]

. Its test deca dbol food and heavy fuckin weight

this is spot on.

problem is, if you follow some of OPs threads. you know he doesn't have the food down , doesn't have the heavy weight down , and thinks just 250mg of a test only cycle will be his answer to adding all the size he wants.

he is 30 years old and been training since being an athlete in high school . yet he says he is currently a major ectomorph and skinnier and smaller then 80% of people he knows .. surely if training and eating properly for all those years you'd of been able to put on some size by 30.


but I'm not going to be one of those guys that always tells skinny guys not to cycle cause they need to learn to eat and train first . at 30 years old do what the heck you want .

but 250mg of only test, on top of using an AI with that (and AI's can definitely hinder mass gains), along with your crappy diet .. your going to be greatly disappointed with that cycle

[Cuz]

this is spot on.

problem is, if you follow some of OPs threads. you know he doesn't have the food down , doesn't have the heavy weight down , and thinks just 250mg of a test only cycle will be his answer to adding all the size he wants.

he is 30 years old and been training since being an athlete in high school . yet he says he is currently a major ectomorph and skinnier and smaller then 80% of people he knows .. surely if training and eating properly for all those years you'd of been able to put on some size by 30.


but I'm not going to be one of those guys that always tells skinny guys not to cycle cause they need to learn to eat and train first . at 30 years old do what the heck you want .

but 250mg of only test, on top of using an AI with that (and AI's can definitely hinder mass gains), along with your crappy diet .. your going to be greatly disappointed with that cycle

I honestly hadn’t paid any attention to his history but i can for sure tell you if he hasn’t got the basics down then this will all be a waste of time i think you can agree lol

[AR's King Silabolin]

So you recommend running an AI the whole time? Then doing the PCT?

Jepp. Follow online guidelines for AIdose vs test mg.
Stop AI at pctstart
It think its very important not to surf on high e2, as a few recommend. Cause high e2, elevates BP and BP is roughly spoken, the only thing most of us at our level, should worry about.
That and hormonhandling to avoid depression and fatigue.
Keeping e2 in check with AI and correct pct should help on the last one.
Keeping healthy BP, is another book, but AI, cardio, beetroot, potassium salt ratio etc and other Google guidelines help.
AIs may destroy your cholestrol profil, but, many experts say cholestrol is not that important. And there is no such thing as bad and good cholestrol. Google "the cholestrol myth" to make up your own opinion on the last matter.

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