Do aromatase inhibitors still have their place in bodybuild?
Printable View
Do aromatase inhibitors still have their place in bodybuild?
Arnold won 7 mr olympia titles without using an AI .. so I think us average folks will do just fine as well :)
Is that known for sure or just an assumption? ... Speaking of Arnold, is it known if he used trenbolone / was it even available back then? Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
umm . well you do know that Arnold won his first mr Olympia title in like 1970 right . heck things like arimidex were not on the market until the early 1990s and even then it was used just for female breast cancer and not yet caught on in the bodybuilding scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by wavefunction
and things like letrozole were not approved until 1996.
AI usage was way way way after Arnolds day
however , deca, dbol, and primo were totally in use in those days .. guess what, these guys didn't need AI's running that stuff. did they step on stage with gyno . no .. it wasn't until Test only cycles became popular that guys starting thinking they needed AIs
And they used to pop dbols like m&ms year round, or so I read somewhere... I wonder if gyno was more common back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
yes . lots of dbol. heck Arnold ran Dbol and Primo pre contest with no test and no AI . worked good for him. also , these guys that would pop 20 dbol pills pre workout , do you hear them dropping dead of liver failure . no.Quote:
Originally Posted by wavefunction
testosterone is the most efficient AAS for causing gyno . yet gyno is still a genetic pre disposition.. I can run 2000mg of test per week and not even get sensitive nips let alone gyno.
but my point is that once Testosterone based cycles became more popular in bodybuilding (lat 90s and 2000s) is when gyno became more and more of an issue .
why is this . because test is the hormone that most easily converts to estrogen and its also the hormone that can bind to progestin receptors as progesterone and make you estrogen sensitive and thus ultimately cause breast receptor activation..
a lot of guys in the 70s ran anabolics only and never touched Testosterone
I use them still, rarely. When my estro hit over 300 pg/ml and I came off all my heavy androgens, the estrogen needed to come down. Only use for it now.
a little known "bro fact" .. the higher your androgen load the higher you can tolerate estrogen levels. reason why back in the day guys would use Halotestin if they were experiencing estrogenic side effects . not because Halo is an anti estrogen at all , but simply because Halo is so damn androgenic, and the elevated androgen load counter balances estrogenQuote:
Originally Posted by Kyle1337
BUT its just the opposite if you have too high of androgen load with not enough estrogen.. this is why guys get Tren side effects most the time. the aggression and insomnia and mental fucked stuff is because they have an overwhelming amount of androgens flooding the brain and not enough estrogen to counter balance it (tren does not covert to estrogen)..
simply adding a bit more test (dropping AI use all together) or adding some Dbol can help counter Trend mental side effects
Adding on to Arnold - recently Ronnie did an interview with Patrick Bet David and opened up to gear use (or "technology" as he called it).
He admitted everything he had was scripted because of being a police officer - he had no choice. I can't imagine a guy like Ronnie being scripted a breast cancer drug in good faith with a target on his back.
Also shows similar to arnold - he was on Primo, Test, Dbol. Of course GH and Slin too.
It's amazing that many sports doctors prescribe "AI" to bodybuilders. All sports doctors in my country discriminate and demonize estrogen as something completely bad.
It’s not just your country. That shit is a worldwide problem that is just now starting to die slowly.Quote:
Originally Posted by davimeireles
Interesting interview. He kept laughing when Patrick asked him about current Mr Olympia contenders, I find his laugh contagious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Windex
My favourite bodybuilder to listen to is Dorian Yates - he’s just so intelligent and pleasant... until he changes subject from bodybuilding to science woo woo(usually at the end of the interview), but I skip those parts. I’ve adopted his training style few months ago and am seeing good results.
Bump!
I just sent a client in Germany a contest prep cycle that we begin next week .. its of course a phase cycle and the list of everything is a mile long list of all the things we may need to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by davimeireles
however after reviewing it, and seeing all the drugs listed, he asked "no AI'' . no.
yes there are a ton of other drugs on our list but doubtful we would ever need to mess around with AI's if we plan this right and implement it right .
so even in my own practice. AI's are less and less a thing at all in bodybuilding
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeaded
MTE= Many competing athletes in my country still use AI as a guardian angel.Many even make video on youtube, on instragram saying if not using aromatase inhibitors in the cycle is ruining health.
GearHeaded, for all that I learned reading this forum I also adhere to the idea that it is not necessary to use more aromatase inhibitors in the cycle.
Years ago I took testosterone cypionate without any anti-estrogen, I didn't take nolvadex anastrozole.
And it's funny that I've never had gynecomastia or anything.
The only thing that happened to me at that time was a strong sexual libido, as well as erection problems. My brain told me that I was very horny, but cock didn't respond.
-
I have taken too much exogenous testosterone in my life without any information; At the time I did not try to inform myself, I just applied some testosterone to my body without even a drug support to avoid the side effects.
The funny thing is never having gynecomastia, even with high estrogen.
Because surely I had high estrogen!
At that time I always applied 600 mg of testosterone cypionate per week even without anti-E.
well, does Nolvadex tamoxifen citrate truly block estrogen in a steroid cycle? Which receptors does it act on? What role does it scientifically perform?
I hear it's inefficient when it comes to 19-nem, is that true?
I am not an expert on the subject, but I have heard that the first step in dealing with prolactin is to prevent the increase in progesterone by controlling estrogen.
Only then can problems with prolactin be prevented. With your great knowledge, what do you have to tell us GH; Is nolvadex useful with 19-steroids?
some conflicting information out there that only AI should be used with 19-nor to control estrogen and the progesterone.
Of course I filtered this information to hear your opinion
Because I know there is a lot of untrue information these days.
What do you think about?