Nutrient Partitioning and PEDs

[ChemyoDude]

Question:

Lets say someone's natural maintenance caloric intake is 2500 and they keep everything the same but start taking AAS or SARMS would they lose fat? Would more of those calories go toward building muscle thus lowering BF%? ---- Then I guess the other side of that is it someone is gaining strength and muscle at a certain caloric intake on cycle when they enter PCT should those calories be lowered so they dont start to accumulate fat? Do certain steroids or sarms do this better than others... for example something that is considered a cutter or dry gainer like Anavar or Winny more likely to store less fat than say a Dbol or LGD4033... etc...

[GearHeaded]

the main thing certain AAS help positive partitioning for is Carbohydrates and glycogen storage (as well as up regulating protein synthesis of course).. just to pick a random number, lets say naturally you store 85% glycogen with a high carb diet, and your body doesn't want to store much more then that in muscle glycogen it then spills over into water retention and fat storage..
now you go on something like Anadrol which is a very good nutrient partitioner. your eating the exact same diet and same amount of carbs. but only now your muscles are able to store 110% glycogen storage. so now instead of spilling over your muscles are sucking up way more carbs. you get bigger and fuller and stronger cause you have way more glycogen and water in the muscle cells.

now when carbs are stored in muscle cells as glycogen with the aide of insulin , other nutrients catch a ride into the muscle cell. amino acids, minerals, etc.. so your muscles get filled with glycogen and nutrients (which is ideal for muscle building). also for every molecule of glycogen that is stored, it stores 3x its weight in water along with it.

this is basically what nutrient partitioning is . it doesn't have much to do with fat loss or fat gain. thats going to be more about total energy balance and diet.

now some steroids , like Tren , will cause such a disturbance in the CNS that it will effect your metabolic rate.. so lets say your maintenance calories are 2000 cals per day and thats what your eating to maintain.. then you take Tren at 400mg per week , and now suddenly your maintenance calories are 2500. your now in a calorie deficit simply cause you started taking Tren

[< <Samson> >]

I was just thinking this: (seriously)


I looked so much better when I was roided af & ate so much worse - I even worked out less

[bwandrade]

About nutrient partitioning, some say that low dose T3 also helps in a bulk cycle with AAS by increasing metabolism, is it really true? If so, how much T3 is enough?

[ChemyoDude]

About nutrient partitioning, some say that low dose T3 also helps in a bulk cycle with AAS by increasing metabolism, is it really true? If so, how much T3 is enough?

Id never touch T3, the rebound could be really bad and it is catabolic much rather take my chances with T2 or T4...

[GearHeaded]

About nutrient partitioning, some say that low dose T3 also helps in a bulk cycle with AAS by increasing metabolism, is it really true? If so, how much T3 is enough?

your going to want to use T4 in a bulk , NOT T3 . and yes it does help.. I'd say about 80% of bulking protocols I write for guys have T4 in the mix at some point (especially if HGH, MK677 or Tren is being used).
50-75mcg T4

[GearHeaded]

Id never touch T3, the rebound could be really bad and it is catabolic much rather take my chances with T2 or T4...

just to clarify . T3 in and of itself is not 'catabolic' . there is nothing in T3 that is going to raise cortisol levels, and cortisol is the hormone that promotes gluconeogenisis and the break down of muscle tissue for proteins. but yes T3 can easily boost up your metabolic rate and put you in a calorie deficit , which can have secondary side effects of catabolism (obviously being in a deficit can be catabolic).
thats why T3 should be saved for cutting only.

now the combination of T3 and AI's together , this creates a much more catabolic environment.

you ever wonder why women can take massive dosages of T3 for months on end and not seem to lose a single ounce of muscle. yet a guy in contest prep takes half the dosage and he goes flat and seems to lose muscle..
its because the female has way higher estrogen levels, and estrogen is an anti catabolic hormone. the man on the other hand is likely running AI's and keeping his E levels super low, so when he takes T3 with those AI's , he loses muscle much quicker.
drop the AI and keep your E levels higher and you'll be way less prone to losing muscle with T3 or when dieting.

[ChemyoDude]

your going to want to use T4 in a bulk , NOT T3 . and yes it does help.. I'd say about 80% of bulking protocols I write for guys have T4 in the mix at some point (especially if HGH, MK677 or Tren is being used).
50-75mcg T4

WHats your thoughts about T2?

[bwandrade]

Id never touch T3, the rebound could be really bad and it is catabolic much rather take my chances with T2 or T4...

Yeah, it's exactly what I've heard about T3 all my life, but now I read some comments about using it in a bulk, made me think about it.

your going to want to use T4 in a bulk , NOT T3 . and yes it does help.. I'd say about 80% of bulking protocols I write for guys have T4 in the mix at some point (especially if HGH, MK677 or Tren is being used).
50-75mcg T4

But it helps with any kind of AAS cycle or it only helps because HGH and Tren downregulates the T3? Does it really improve the nutrient partitioning?

[GearHeaded]

But it helps with any kind of AAS cycle or it only helps because HGH and Tren downregulates the T3? Does it really improve the nutrient partitioning?

T4 can help with any bulk, no matter what compounds your on.. when your shoving 6 meals per day down and in a big calorie surplus your body can benefit from a little metabolic support (without replacing active thyroid hormone, which is what T3 does). adding in some T4 will help give metabolic support and then your liver will convert as much as is needed to keep going and hammer those 6 meals and partition those nutrients.
also, added bonus . when your liver converts T4 into T3 there in an enzyme byproduct. this enzyme is anabolic (can't remember the name of it off the top of my head). so giving your body plenty of T4 to work with and convert has several benefits for bulking up.

[GearHeaded]

WHats your thoughts about T2?

if your supplementing with T3 or T4 , T2 levels should naturally follow. so I'd rather just stick with T4 and T3 rather then supplementing with T2.
having said that, I've never personally myself or had anyone else supplement with T2 so I have no hands on experience with it

[bwandrade]

Thanks GH! Just one last thing, is the timming important while taking T4? Does it matter if it's first thing in the morning or before a workout with insulin ?

[GearHeaded]

Thanks GH! Just one last thing, is the timming important while taking T4? Does it matter if it's first thing in the morning or before a workout with insulin?

yes . it needs to be on an empty stomach. which is hard to do when bulking because you hardly ever have an empty stomach. so what I advise guys to do is to have their T4 and a glass of water next to their bed. then in the middle of the night when you take a piss, thats when you take your T4..
or if you wake up in the AM and you don't eat a meal right away, then take it upon waking

[Quester]

yes . it needs to be on an empty stomach. which is hard to do when bulking because you hardly ever have an empty stomach. so what I advise guys to do is to have their T4 and a glass of water next to their bed. then in the middle of the night when you take a piss, thats when you take your T4..
or if you wake up in the AM and you don't eat a meal right away, then take it upon waking

My Pharmacology text book says to administer T4 (Synthroid , Levothyroxine) at wake up 30-60 min before breakfast.
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Absorbtion can be reduced by cholestyramine, colestipol, sucralfate, aluminum containing antacids, iron supplelements, calcium supps, magnesium salts, orlitat and H2 receptor blockers (cimetidine, famotidine, nizatidine and ranitidine...Antacids), proton pump inhibitors. Speparate admin by 4 hours from T4 dose.
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Also, many psych drugs accelerate its absorbtion. Warfarin intensifies its effects and Catecholamines (epi, dopamine, dobutamine) make the heart more sensitive to Levo/Synthroid.
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It's something I would consider adding to a cycle but these are things I would watch for:
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Minimizing adverse effects: Thyrotoxicosis-(Overdose) symptoms include tachycardia (fast heart rate), angina (heart pain from lack of O2 to cardiac muscle), tremor, nervousness, insomnia (that's why you take it in the morning), hyperthermia, heat intolerance and sweating. Just be on the look out and respond accordingly.
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Chronic over use can lead to bone loss and Afib.