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Thread: AI Question

  1. #1
    cylon357's Avatar
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    AI Question

    Does anyone have any experience with Arimistane? I'm talking the original formula as depicted in the attached images. I think it got taken off the market by the FDA because it was basically the same as a prescription AI. I'm most interested in things like does it work (though I may answer that myself) and are there dosing equivalents to the prescription AIs, like 25mg arimistane = .25 mg arimidex or whatever the case may be.

    The chemical name reads like a friggin' algebra equation. Oh and yes, I know AIs are out of vogue now....

    Thanks for any input.

    PS - the first formula of Olympus Labs Ellim1nate had the same contents, now it is some sort of herbal concoction.

    AI Question-img_20200221_154507.jpg AI Question-img_20200221_154517.jpg

  2. #2
    clarky.'s Avatar
    clarky. is online now MONITOR
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    Why would you be using this ?.
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    Super User 4 is offline Associate Member
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    What's the purpose of using that? Like why did you bought it or with what intention?

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    Its a product left over from my OTC days. I'm curious as to whether anybody has any experience with it.

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    I would suppose that it is fine if you have knowledge that the manufacturer/provider is actually supplying the true ingredient in the correct dosage.
    -
    I only use Anastrozole obtained by a script or from an Indian pharmacy (more sketcy) so I haven't heard of it but, if you're comfortable with the med, Arimistane, then provided with legit stuff should be your only concern.
    --I just did a few minutes of research and it looks like a nutritional supplement. This is the only legit source of info I could find (the info isn't provided by a seller of the product):
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100070/
    ---Abstract

    The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of 6-OXO, a purported nutritional aromatase inhibitor, in a dose dependent manner on body composition, serum hormone levels, and clinical safety markers in resistance trained males. Sixteen males were supplemented with either 300 mg or 600 mg of 6-OXO in a double-blind manner for eight weeks. Blood and urine samples were obtained at weeks 0, 1, 3, 8, and 11 (after a 3-week washout period). Blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (FT), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), estradiol, estriol, estrone, SHBG, leutinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), growth hormone (GH), cortisol, FT/estradiol (T/E). Blood and urine were also analyzed for clinical chemistry markers. Data were analyzed with two-way MANOVA. For all of the serum hormones, there were no significant differences between groups (p > 0.05). Compared to baseline, free testosterone underwent overall increases of 90% for 300 mg 6-OXO and 84% for 600 mg, respectively (p < 0.05). DHT underwent significant overall increases (p < 0.05) of 192% and 265% with 300 mg and 600 mg, respectively. T/E increased 53% and 67% for 300 mg and 600 mg 6-OXO, respectively. For estrone, 300 mg produced an overall increase of 22%, whereas 600 mg caused a 52% increase (p < 0.05). Body composition did not change with supplementation (p > 0.05) and clinical safety markers were not adversely affected with ingestion of either supplement dose (p > 0.05). While neither of the 6-OXO dosages appears to have any negative effects on clinical chemistry markers, supplementation at a daily dosage of 300 mg and 600 mg for eight weeks did not completely inhibit aromatase activity, yet significantly increased FT, DHT, and T/E.

    -
    I'm switching TRT docs and I'm going to switch to Aromasin (exemestane) in place of the Anastrozole. It is healthier on BP and lipids as well as lowers SHBG.
    -
    If you're looking for less systemic effects on cycle you could go with Nolva.
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    cylon357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quester View Post
    I would suppose that it is fine if you have knowledge that the manufacturer/provider is actually supplying the true ingredient in the correct dosage.
    -
    I only use Anastrozole obtained by a script or from an Indian pharmacy (more sketcy) so I haven't heard of it but, if you're comfortable with the med, Arimistane, then provided with legit stuff should be your only concern.
    --I just did a few minutes of research and it looks like a nutritional supplement. This is the only legit source of info I could find (the info isn't provided by a seller of the product):
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2100070/
    ---Abstract

    The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of 6-OXO, a purported nutritional aromatase inhibitor, in a dose dependent manner on body composition, serum hormone levels, and clinical safety markers in resistance trained males. Sixteen males were supplemented with either 300 mg or 600 mg of 6-OXO in a double-blind manner for eight weeks. Blood and urine samples were obtained at weeks 0, 1, 3, 8, and 11 (after a 3-week washout period). Blood samples were analyzed for total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (FT), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), estradiol, estriol, estrone, SHBG, leutinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), growth hormone (GH), cortisol, FT/estradiol (T/E). Blood and urine were also analyzed for clinical chemistry markers. Data were analyzed with two-way MANOVA. For all of the serum hormones, there were no significant differences between groups (p > 0.05). Compared to baseline, free testosterone underwent overall increases of 90% for 300 mg 6-OXO and 84% for 600 mg, respectively (p < 0.05). DHT underwent significant overall increases (p < 0.05) of 192% and 265% with 300 mg and 600 mg, respectively. T/E increased 53% and 67% for 300 mg and 600 mg 6-OXO, respectively. For estrone, 300 mg produced an overall increase of 22%, whereas 600 mg caused a 52% increase (p < 0.05). Body composition did not change with supplementation (p > 0.05) and clinical safety markers were not adversely affected with ingestion of either supplement dose (p > 0.05). While neither of the 6-OXO dosages appears to have any negative effects on clinical chemistry markers, supplementation at a daily dosage of 300 mg and 600 mg for eight weeks did not completely inhibit aromatase activity, yet significantly increased FT, DHT, and T/E.

    -
    I'm switching TRT docs and I'm going to switch to Aromasin (exemestane) in place of the Anastrozole. It is healthier on BP and lipids as well as lowers SHBG.
    -
    If you're looking for less systemic effects on cycle you could go with Nolva.
    Thanks for that! I think I saw that one and was a little conflicted by the study. Like, 300mg is WAY over the labeled doses of 25-75mg per day. Obviously, the 600mg dose is WAY over labeled usage, but when have we ever REALLY paid that much attention to labeled doses?

    Yes, it is definitely a 'nutritional supplement', though there was an FDA warning sent to VMI (the producer of this particular product) that you can find here.

    It is kind of wordy and the implications are not clear, but in short, they seem to be saying:
    1 - Arimistane is an AI
    2 - It is a new, prescription drug
    3 - It's effects are undocumented
    4 - You (VMI) can't sell prescription drugs

    There is a heck of a lot you can unwind from the verbiage in the actual letter, some of which seems a little contradictory, but those are the main takeaways I got from it.

    I've got some blood work coming up, so maybe I will run a low dose to see what if anything it does.

    I did see where @GearHeaded has run it before in this post from about a year ago. I will be interested to see if he weighs in.

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    Oh and one other slightly off topic note: that FDA warning letter certainly implies ways that supplement companies can market their products to avoid FDA scrutiny. Two of the underlying issues in this case seems to be that VMI's product:
    a) didn't make any claims other than being an AI
    b) didn't include any recognized nutritional supplements (like vitamins and / or minerals)

    Had it done so, maybe they would not have been found in violation. You may notice that some products (like MAs tablet MK supp) includes melatonin and some vitamins in addition to MK. I would be willing to bet that allows MA to avoid FDA scrutiny (though I do NOT know that for fact).

    And now that I have thread jacked myself, back to regular programming...

  8. #8
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    That’s fake news

    I mean stuff

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    I would toss that in the garbage.

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    Just my $.02, but I wouldn't trust it as an 'independent' PCT. I'd use real (prescription) AI chems with real (prescription) aas chems.
    Last edited by magic32; 02-23-2020 at 06:33 PM.
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