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Thread: Missed Test Pin

  1. #1
    YEEZ is offline New Member
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    Missed Test Pin

    First off let me start by saying Iím not an expert but Iím learning!

    So I have been pinning twice a week Tuesday and Friday 500mg a week of test Cpyh

    So Iím about third week in cycle and got very busy wasnít able to pin Friday or Saturday so I did Sunday. But now itís already Tuesday so should I still pin today and get back to normal schedule or just wait until Friday?

    Thanks guys!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by YEEZ View Post
    First off let me start by saying I’m not an expert but I’m learning!

    So I have been pinning twice a week Tuesday and Friday 500mg a week of test Cpyh

    So I’m about third week in cycle and got very busy wasn’t able to pin Friday or Saturday so I did Sunday. But now it’s already Tuesday so should I still pin today and get back to normal schedule or just wait until Friday?

    Thanks guys!
    It’s really up to you. If you’re fine with different days then don’t pin. If you want to go back to the original schedule then do so. It’s really not an issue at all.
    bobspix likes this.

  3. #3
    YEEZ is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabhuge14 View Post
    It’s really up to you. If you’re fine with different days then don’t pin. If you want to go back to the original schedule then do so. It’s really not an issue at all.

    Got it thanks!

  4. #4
    i_SLAM_cougars is offline Banned- for my own actions
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    Quote Originally Posted by YEEZ View Post
    First off let me start by saying I’m not an expert but I’m learning!

    So I have been pinning twice a week Tuesday and Friday 500mg a week of test Cpyh

    So I’m about third week in cycle and got very busy wasn’t able to pin Friday or Saturday so I did Sunday. But now it’s already Tuesday so should I still pin today and get back to normal schedule or just wait until Friday?

    Thanks guys!
    It doesn’t matter one way or another. The half life on Cypionate is like 12 days, so you’re not going to notice the difference one way or another

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    It doesnít matter one way or another. The half life on Cypionate is like 12 days, so youíre not going to notice the difference one way or another
    This is actually a common misconception based on bad math thatís been around for decades. The actual half life of Cyp has been shown in in vivo laboratory conditions to be more like 5 days (and Enanthate around 4.5 and prop around 20-22 hours).
    All of the original advertised half lives were based on assumptions and algorithms that didnít pan out once the shit went into a living organism.

  6. #6
    i_SLAM_cougars is offline Banned- for my own actions
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    This is actually a common misconception based on bad math that’s been around for decades. The actual half life of Cyp has been shown in in vivo laboratory conditions to be more like 5 days (and Enanthate around 4.5 and prop around 20-22 hours).
    All of the original advertised half lives were based on assumptions and algorithms that didn’t pan out once the shit went into a living organism.
    Good to know, I haven’t heard this before
    bobspix likes this.

  7. #7
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    Missed Test Pin

    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    Good to know, I havenít heard this before
    https://moscow.sci-hub.tw/3541/f0779...hankar2006.pdf

    Notes on terminal half life starts on page 5. Youíll notice that with Cyp, return to basal level happens after after 13-14 days, which back calculates to a terminal of roughly 5 days. So at 12 days, you barely have anything left in your system at all.

    Prop shows 0.8 days, or roughly the 20-22 hours I mentioned. This is why I always suggest guys pin shorts ED instead of the old EOD suggestions.

  8. #8
    bobspix is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    https://moscow.sci-hub.tw/3541/f0779...hankar2006.pdf

    Notes on terminal half life starts on page 5. You’ll notice that with Cyp, return to basal level happens after after 13-14 days, which back calculates to a terminal of roughly 5 days. So at 12 days, you barely have anything left in your system at all.

    Prop shows 0.8 days, or roughly the 20-22 hours I mentioned. This is why I always suggest guys pin shorts ED instead of the old EOD suggestions.
    So let's say pin 1 of Test E at monday and another at Friday or the plain ol thursday?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobspix View Post
    So let's say pin 1 of Test E at monday and another at Friday or the plain ol thursday?
    The 3.5 day separation would be max, given a 4.5 day half life for Enanthate . Thereís some merit to going even more frequently with long esters, assuming that dosage is equated. Daily with subq is actually becoming more and more popular in the TRT realm, due to level stability and mimicking of natural productions.
    The more that I talk to people, the lesser their sides seem to be when increasing frequency of any ester of any compound.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    The 3.5 day separation would be max, given a 4.5 day half life for Enanthate . There’s some merit to going even more frequently with long esters, assuming that dosage is equated. Daily with subq is actually becoming more and more popular in the TRT realm, due to level stability and mimicking of natural productions.
    The more that I talk to people, the lesser their sides seem to be when increasing frequency of any ester of any compound.

    These days I pin every third day for my TRT, sub q. Interestingly, I still feel the lumps of oil/inflammation in my belly fat from my first pin by the time I get to the second pin... So I'm thinking there's a slower dispersion and absorption of test in fat than in muscle.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    These days I pin every third day for my TRT, sub q. Interestingly, I still feel the lumps of oil/inflammation in my belly fat from my first pin by the time I get to the second pin... So I'm thinking there's a slower dispersion and absorption of test in fat than in muscle.
    I had the same issue, which is why I went entirely IM for pretty much everything.

  12. #12
    fightnews is offline Associate Member
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    If that was true then why are actual doctors having patients pin every 7-10 days on test cyp? You can't just believe everything you read .

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  13. #13
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    Missed Test Pin

    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    If that was true then why are actual doctors having patients pin every 7-10 days on test cyp? You can't just believe everything you read .

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    Actual HRT specialists are not. 2-7 doses/week is the range of standard practice in people who know what they are doing.
    Uros and PCPs are almost always just following shitty standard guidelines from drug inserts, which are again, based on bad math and old assumptions.
    If the halflife were truly 8-9 days as Cyp inserts say, we shouldnít see people with tanking levels and feeling like shit with 7-14 day schedules, but we do.

    Itís not about ďwhat I readĒ. Itís about actual literature created from actual serum testing. Read the paper instead of assuming that the white coats actually know what they are doing.

    ďReturned to baseline in 12 daysĒ means that at 10 days, you barely have shit left in your system. Seven is better, but still past the half life mark by 36-48 hours.
    Cuz and C27H40O3 like this.

  14. #14
    fightnews is offline Associate Member
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    One paper doesn't prove anything. You are dismissing the great majority of trt doctors as "people who don't know what they are doing" but you think you do because you found 1 paper online?

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  15. #15
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    One paper doesn't prove anything. You are dismissing the great majority of trt doctors as "people who don't know what they are doing" but you think you do because you found 1 paper online?

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    You are incorrect. The majority of up to date HRT Specialists advocate MWF or E3D injections, my doctor included.

    The doctors that advocate old protocols are the ones that got their doctorate 15+ years ago that don't stay up to date with standard of care.
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    I no longer check my inbox. If you PM me I will not reply.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    One paper doesn't prove anything. You are dismissing the great majority of trt doctors as "people who don't know what they are doing" but you think you do because you found 1 paper online?

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    Show me one, single HRT/TRT specialist who recommends what you described. Not a urologist, not a primary, not even an endo; someone whoís sole medical function at the current time is hormone replacement. If you find even one out of the hundreds, Iíd be amazed.

  17. #17
    fightnews is offline Associate Member
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    Injection 1x per week? All of them do. No one recommends daily injections. 2x a week max for cyp and every other day for prop works great. Only a fool would inject everyday.

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    Injection 1x per week? All of them do. No one recommends daily injections. 2x a week max for cyp and every other day for prop works great. Only a fool would inject everyday.

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    Absolutely not. Yes, daily injections are on the higher end of whatís ever recommended (and usually only with subq), but 3-4 is extremely common. As with all things, thereís a bell curve that spikes in the middle.
    Once per week is only ever given anymore by (again) uros, pcps and endos. These are usually people with very minimal experience with testosterone replacement , and are following inserts.
    Any licensed medical doctor can write a prescription for testosterone . That doesnít mean that they understand all (or any) of the nuance involved. Stop trying to defend bad protocols based on ďitís always been done that wayĒ. Thereís a reason that the field is moving on, and that ďjust one paperĒ was the start of a lot of it in the late 2000s.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by YEEZ View Post
    First off let me start by saying I’m not an expert but I’m learning!

    So I have been pinning twice a week Tuesday and Friday 500mg a week of test Cpyh

    So I’m about third week in cycle and got very busy wasn’t able to pin Friday or Saturday so I did Sunday. But now it’s already Tuesday so should I still pin today and get back to normal schedule or just wait until Friday?

    Thanks guys!
    It's really up to you, there's no problem either way

  20. #20
    fightnews is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Absolutely not. Yes, daily injections are on the higher end of what’s ever recommended (and usually only with subq), but 3-4 is extremely common. As with all things, there’s a bell curve that spikes in the middle.
    Once per week is only ever given anymore by (again) uros, pcps and endos. These are usually people with very minimal experience with testosterone replacement , and are following inserts.
    Any licensed medical doctor can write a prescription for testosterone . That doesn’t mean that they understand all (or any) of the nuance involved. Stop trying to defend bad protocols based on “it’s always been done that way”. There’s a reason that the field is moving on, and that “just one paper” was the start of a lot of it in the late 2000s.
    Yeah but you do. Okay

    Even just on this site they have false information about finesteride saying it makes using testosterone pointless. How many people like you read that and believed it. There's people right now that read that here and never bothered looking into it any more. Every time the subject comes up they tell their friends the wrong information that they read here.

    You're doing the same thing assuming you know what all these different doctors are doing. Give me a break.

    I have experience with all the standard test protocols and they all work great. All that BS you're talking about is a waste of time. You're getting nothing out of it besides more tissue damage from unnecessary pins.
    Last edited by fightnews; 03-07-2020 at 05:08 AM.

  21. #21
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    Missed Test Pin

    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    Yeah but you do. Okay

    Even just on this site they have false information about finesteride saying it makes using testosterone pointless. How many people like you read that and believed it. There's people right now that read that here and never bothered looking into it any more. Every time the subject comes up they tell their friends the wrong information that they read here.

    You're doing the same thing assuming you know what all these different doctors are doing. Give me a break.

    I have experience with all the standard test protocols and they all work great. All that BS you're talking about is a waste of time. You're getting nothing out of it besides more tissue damage from unnecessary pins.
    Youíre either missing or ignoring the point.
    This isnít a ďoh, random shit that I found on the internetĒ. Itís a paper based on multiple clinical trials involving actual controls and blood tests at specific intervals. Itís not ďI once heard from this guy whoís cousin, blah blahĒ.
    Itís like these chucklefucks who swear that creatine added ten lbs. to their body weight and twenty pounds to their lifts vs. the people who swear to be 0% or negative responders. The stuff does help, but itís to degrees that cannot be detected without laboratory equipment.
    This is a similar thing. Due to how small the changes will be as terminal halflife is breached and how slowly the body responds to hormonal shifts, of course you donít see a difference. That doesnít mean that it isnít there.
    Last edited by Gallowmere; 03-07-2020 at 08:28 AM.

  22. #22
    C27H40O3 is offline Admin Sent Me Away.
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    It looks like someone came here to fight, rather than learn. I donít get it.


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  23. #23
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    I agree with OP that we should not just believe what some of these forum gurus have to say and take their word as gospel, but, logic always prevails, especially in something simple to understand like this.

    From a purely physiological perspective, given the same total amount of testosterone per week, the more often you inject, the more you mimic the body’s natural production of hormones. The less often you inject, the steeper the bell curve of the availability of testosterone over the course of the injection cycle.

    As the body tries to process high mg infrequent injections, it compensates the sudden surge in testosterone by converting into estrogen, and a chain of chemical and biological events ensues.

    Btw doctors don’t prescribe more frequent injections for their patients because it is less manageable for people with busy schedules, and less desirable because of the act of sticking a needle in their body. People who are not bodybuilders will be less likely to stick to a more frequent injection schedule. Sub cutaneous shots will not damage the muscle, and rotating sites while injecting 2-3x per week is very easy.

  24. #24
    fightnews is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Test Monsterone View Post
    I agree with OP that we should not just believe what some of these forum gurus have to say and take their word as gospel, but, logic always prevails, especially in something simple to understand like this.

    From a purely physiological perspective, given the same total amount of testosterone per week, the more often you inject, the more you mimic the body’s natural production of hormones. The less often you inject, the steeper the bell curve of the availability of testosterone over the course of the injection cycle.

    As the body tries to process high mg infrequent injections, it compensates the sudden surge in testosterone by converting into estrogen, and a chain of chemical and biological events ensues.

    Btw doctors don’t prescribe more frequent injections for their patients because it is less manageable for people with busy schedules, and less desirable because of the act of sticking a needle in their body. People who are not bodybuilders will be less likely to stick to a more frequent injection schedule. Sub cutaneous shots will not damage the muscle, and rotating sites while injecting 2-3x per week is very easy.
    Well plus the whole point of test cypionate is to inject less frequently. Thats why it has the long ester.

  25. #25
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    Missed Test Pin

    Quote Originally Posted by fightnews View Post
    Well plus the whole point of test cypionate is to inject less frequently. Thats why it has the long ester.
    Youíre absolutely right, but a lot of prescribers took that too far, especially in the early days when the half lives were estimated instead of being proven in vitro. Cypionate ís advertised half life is 8 days. Itís in vitro terminal was proven to be 4.5-5 days. This means that at the 8 day mark, your total elimination is roughly 38% higher than expected.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by YEEZ View Post
    First off let me start by saying I’m not an expert but I’m learning!

    So I have been pinning twice a week Tuesday and Friday 500mg a week of test Cpyh

    So I’m about third week in cycle and got very busy wasn’t able to pin Friday or Saturday so I did Sunday. But now it’s already Tuesday so should I still pin today and get back to normal schedule or just wait until Friday?

    Thanks guys!
    I would just pick up where you left off. Year back I only injected long esters every 5-7 days and I did just fine.

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