Test E, Dbol, Oral Tren doable?

[Rainshaker]

Hey all, brand new here to the forums, but not new to lifting or gear. My last cycle was a Test E/Oral Tren cycle a little over a year ago. Anyway reaching a ceiling in my natural gains even with excess calories so I'm looking at firing up another cycle. Really enjoyed the test/tren cycle but would like to beef it up a little more.

Here's what I am considering:

Weeks 1-4
Test E - 500mg per week
Dianabol - 20mg per day

Weeks 5-6
Test E - 500mg per week

Weeks 7-10
Test E - 500mg per week
Oral Tren - 500mcg per day

My support and PCT supplements include:
Nolvadex , Arimidex , DIM, DAA, Grape Seed, Milk Thistle, Dandelion Root, Tribulus and im sure a few others I'm missing.

Anyway I knownits never a good idea to do more than one oral on cycle but I'm wondering if with the 2 week break in between orals and all the liver support I would be ok.

Thoughts, questions, comments....

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I wouldn't touch oral tren .

I have heard horror stories about it.
I have heard it is very liver toxic and basically just a harsh compound overall.
And when you are dealing with a drug that is dosed in such small amounts and you are dealing with UGL you can easily end up dosing more than you intend.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

I’d just run like 150-350mg of Tren Acetate through the entire cycle and leave out the methyl tren. You’ll get more out of it running the entire length anyway

[Windex]

Agree with deadlifting dog. It's a great compound to use before a strongman or powerlifting competition, or maybe the blue moon heavy duty workout with a partner for maximum failure. Outside of that, I don't feel it's going to add value to a cycle.

[Rainshaker]

Thanks for the responses guys. I understand the not wanting to touch the oral tren , I know its known as one of the harshest. That being said I have run oral tren 4 times and have never had any issues with it. Have run both tren a and e in injectable form and was not at all impressed, would never spend my money on it again but that's me. I will also add that I had my bloodwork done during week 3 of a cycle of oral tren and my liver barely showed any elevated levels.

I'm by no means saying oral tren is safe in the least bit of a way, but I was really hoping to get answers to if the cycle is doable instead of lessons on what oral tren is.

Also can anyone tell me what it is that makes oral tren any harsher than dianabol or any other methylated c17aa oral? I keep hearing this but cant seem to find any supportive science.

Anyway would love to hear from anyone who has tried these compounds and isnt terrified of oral tren

[Windex]

If your liver enzymes weren't elevated then you had extremely under doses or a different product. It's mechanism of action causes systemic inflammation in the body, makes it biologically impossible not to elevate lipids sky high.

Even with perfect liver genetics and pharmaceutical help to protect the liver like Udoyxl and Injectable Glutathione

[Rainshaker]

Rather then just say things like the mechanism of action causes systemic inflammation or it is impossible for it to not elevate levels of lipids sky high, can you actually give me some science. If you can tell me the action by which it causes these effects in every human that takes it, I'd be far more inclined to hear you. To think that any compound could affect every biologically unique human the same is crazy in my mind, but again I believe what I can be shown. Real data speaks and I'm always willing to learn, but I'm never willing to be told

Anyway back on topic assuming that the danger from orals comes from the fact that they are methylated (proven science, anyone can go learn the step by step of how this process happens and why it's hard on your liver) do you think a 2 week break between the orals would be enough to rest the liver? I mean worst case I'll drop the Dianabol and just run my normal Test E/Methyltrienolone cycle.

[Rainshaker]

Sorry guys I'm really not trying to be a dick but constantly hearing how harsh the oral tren is but then seeing people have no issue munching down Dianabol like its flintstones gummies just bugs the shit out of me. Then everyone wants to say its because oral tren is so harsh, but not one person can give you the science of how its harsh other than being methylated.

[Rainshaker]

Sorry islamcougars missed your response. I have run tren a for 10wks before and I was not very impressed. Would have rather spent the money on more Test and run a stronger test only cycle. Tried the same cycle with Tren e with same results. Maybe it's because I tried the oral before the injectable but the oral is so much more active for me. If im not mistaken the oral is more active because of a better affinity for binding to the androgen receptors. Plus I'm trying to use up some of what I have on hand already. I also have some M1T but I'm honestly as scared of it as everyone else seems to be of oral tren.

[Chicagotarsier]

Sorry guys I'm really not trying to be a dick but constantly hearing how harsh the oral tren is but then seeing people have no issue munching down Dianabol like its flintstones gummies just bugs the shit out of me. Then everyone wants to say its because oral tren is so harsh, but not one person can give you the science of how its harsh other than being methylated.

If for no other reason there is a clear path to medicate via intermuscular injection vs digestion. What do you hope to acheive by using an outdated process instead of what has been proven as best?

I can answer that.

You want to save money and get the same result.

If you cannot ante up and buy the standard then you dont have the cash to be in the game.

My 2-cents.

[Rainshaker]

I hope to achieve the same results I have come to expect. Flat out injectable tren will never be able to touch the results of the oral. I understand it has its downfalls but sadly nothing I have tried had even remotely compared. I could care less about money, that is a 0% issue for me. You say I want to get the same results, maybe you missed the part where I wasn't happy with the results of injectable tren combined with test, but have been thrilled with the results of the oral.

Chcagotarsier I dont think you have the intelligence to even read through the posts so your thoughts dont really concern me at all. Yet again more shit talk and no science. I should retitled this thread "where pussies come to talk shit on oral tren with no science"

[charger69]

I hope to achieve the same results I have come to expect. Flat out injectable tren will never be able to touch the results of the oral. I understand it has its downfalls but sadly nothing I have tried had even remotely compared. I could care less about money, that is a 0% issue for me. You say I want to get the same results, maybe you missed the part where I wasn't happy with the results of injectable tren combined with test, but have been thrilled with the results of the oral.

Chcagotarsier I dont think you have the intelligence to even read through the posts so your thoughts dont really concern me at all. Yet again more shit talk and no science. I should retitled this thread "where pussies come to talk shit on oral tren with no science"

Ok- we get it. You ask for advice and don’t want any..... you just want us to tell you what you want to hear.
Any C17 aloha alkylated is designed to go through the liver without being broken down. This will elevate your bromosulphalein retention which is used in measuring hepatic stress.
You want everyone to be technical.. ok- there is no such thing as oral tren..... you are referring to methyltrienolone (Metribolone). Tren is only found in injectable form. Metribolone is a derivative of trenbolone .
You are not going to find a lot of backup data on steroids except from initial studies when developed for medical purposes.
You can find studies from 1966 and the University of Bonn Germany that show that it is super hepatoxic. I am hoping that you can read the data you were looking for.
If you don’t get results from injectable tren, it was most likely underdosed.
Although the data is not the data you like, don’t tell me that all the pro BB that use tren injectable don’t know what they are doing.
You need to learn to listen, absorb, and evaluate the comments from others.
The moment that someone says they heard it was bad, ask why, not prove it to me because I don’t believe you. Yes there are myths out there, and sometimes we need to sort through them.
If you continue taking it, good luck and I hope you have facts that it is OK.
I didn’t try it, but google it. I will guarantee that you will not find any recommendations to use it. You always have my scientific proof provided but I am sure you won’t like it because it is t what you wanted to hear.


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[charger69]

I’d just run like 150-350mg of Tren Acetate through the entire cycle and leave out the methyl tren. You’ll get more out of it running the entire length anyway

Come on ISC- be a little more adventuresome. Try 2x that. LOL


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[i_SLAM_cougars]

Come on ISC- be a little more adventuresome. Try 2x that. LOL


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From the looks of the cycle (Test & Dbol ) he’s planning on gaining mass. I feel like Tren above those levels raises your TDEE and nerfs your appetite too much to be productive towards that.

Now if he’s cutting up? Yep run Charger levels with a bunch of other anxiety inducing drugs. That’s fun ��

[Rainshaker]

Ok- we get it. You ask for advice and don’t want any..... you just want us to tell you what you want to hear.
Any C17 aloha alkylated is designed to go through the liver without being broken down. This will elevate your bromosulphalein retention which is used in measuring hepatic stress.
You want everyone to be technical.. ok- there is no such thing as oral tren ..... you are referring to methyltrienolone (Metribolone). Tren is only found in injectable form. Metribolone is a derivative of trenbolone .
You are not going to find a lot of backup data on steroids except from initial studies when developed for medical purposes.
You can find studies from 1966 and the University of Bonn Germany that show that it is super hepatoxic. I am hoping that you can read the data you were looking for.
If you don’t get results from injectable tren, it was most likely underdosed.
Although the data is not the data you like, don’t tell me that all the pro BB that use tren injectable don’t know what they are doing.
You need to learn to listen, absorb, and evaluate the comments from others.
The moment that someone says they heard it was bad, ask why, not prove it to me because I don’t believe you. Yes there are myths out there, and sometimes we need to sort through them.
If you continue taking it, good luck and I hope you have facts that it is OK.
I didn’t try it, but google it. I will guarantee that you will not find any recommendations to use it. You always have my scientific proof provided but I am sure you won’t like it because it is t what you wanted to hear.


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Hey man first valid response I have gotten so thanks. I dont want you to tell me what I want to hear, i was just hoping to get more feedback on whether the hepatotoxicity could be reduced with things like milk thistle and tumeric enough that 2 weeks would be enough of a break in the middle to stop the Dbol and pick up the Methlytrienolone. I am very aware that there is no such thing as oral tren just the same as there is no such thing as Dianabol (actually Methandienone). I have read the same studies on the extreme hepatotoxicity, the issue I have is not one bit of the info tells why it is more hepatoxic than any other c17.

I'm also not arguing that injectable tren is worthless and doesnt do anything, just nowhere near as active as Methyltrienolone. I personally wasnt a big fan and was by no means under dosing. Just not a fan.

That's just it I am asking why, telling me to avoid it and that they wouldn't touch it tells me nothing other than a person's personal opinion.

I can tell you this I order from one of the most well known sites there is and their methyltrienolone has over 49 5 star reviews. Not one person has a negative to say, even with the super bad sides and hepstoxicity. I guess what we read and what we are told can greatly differentiate from what we experience first hand.

Even though its supposedly impossible I'm not lieing when I say my bloodwork showed almost no elevation in liver levels. Maybe it was the Tumeric or Milk Thistle but reading the reviews I'm not the only one who's seen this.

I have read all of the google crap on it and yes you are 100% correct nobody recommends. Go somewhere like Naps where people actually use the shit and have experience with it and you see different feedback.

Alcohol is insanely hard on your liver, dont think anyone recommends using it, but last I checked most do anyway.

[Rainshaker]

From the looks of the cycle (Test & Dbol ) he’s planning on gaining mass. I feel like Tren above those levels raises your TDEE and nerfs your appetite too much to be productive towards that.

Now if he’s cutting up? Yep run Charger levels with a bunch of other anxiety inducing drugs. That’s fun ��

Honestly my idea was to use the Dbol at the start to up the bulk and then the Methyltrienolone at the end to harden things back up. I have tons of stuff right now and I just really cant make up my mind. I guess I'm so stuck on the methyltrienolone because I've seen the results time and time again and nothing compares.

Sometimes I really wonder if all the negatives on this are actually just because the strength of it and they are scared if they dont make us think its deadly, then we will all use it and become gods.

[Rainshaker]

"And Id probably recommend that people keep doses of this product very low, much lower than recommended doses typical of the other 2 compounds I just mentioned (i.e. 500-750mcgs/day, for not much longer than 3-4 weeks). I have had the good fortune to discuss this product with the owner of an Underground Lab, and he had given out several samples of this stuff to athletes he knew, and they all kept records and got regular bloodwork done. People who were in the 2mg/day range developed highly elevated liver enzymes and Jaundice (yellowing of the eyes and skin). They all recovered, and through trial and error, a 500-750mcg dose was found to be (*relatively) safe, and (*roughly) as effective as 150-225mgs of Trenbolone Acetate."

Hmmm....

[charger69]

Hey man first valid response I have gotten so thanks. I dont want you to tell me what I want to hear, i was just hoping to get more feedback on whether the hepatotoxicity could be reduced with things like milk thistle and tumeric enough that 2 weeks would be enough of a break in the middle to stop the Dbol and pick up the Methlytrienolone. I am very aware that there is no such thing as oral tren just the same as there is no such thing as Dianabol (actually Methandienone). I have read the same studies on the extreme hepatotoxicity, the issue I have is not one bit of the info tells why it is more hepatoxic than any other c17.

I'm also not arguing that injectable tren is worthless and doesnt do anything, just nowhere near as active as Methyltrienolone . I personally wasnt a big fan and was by no means under dosing. Just not a fan.

That's just it I am asking why, telling me to avoid it and that they wouldn't touch it tells me nothing other than a person's personal opinion.

I can tell you this I order from one of the most well known sites there is and their methyltrienolone has over 49 5 star reviews. Not one person has a negative to say, even with the super bad sides and hepstoxicity. I guess what we read and what we are told can greatly differentiate from what we experience first hand.

Even though its supposedly impossible I'm not lieing when I say my bloodwork showed almost no elevation in liver levels. Maybe it was the Tumeric or Milk Thistle but reading the reviews I'm not the only one who's seen this.

I have read all of the google crap on it and yes you are 100% correct nobody recommends. Go somewhere like Naps where people actually use the shit and have experience with it and you see different feedback.

Alcohol is insanely hard on your liver, dont think anyone recommends using it, but last I checked most do anyway.

Actually Dianabol does exist. It is a trade name.
I would also like to mention that milk thistle may interfere with the function of the AAS by occupying the receptors. I do not use milk thistle on cycle, but rather NAC and TUDCA.
I have searched and I have not been able to find any studies on hepatoxity. My speculation. Is due to the androgens in the liver. The liver has androgen receptors. The liver is unable to breakdown the alkylated AAS therefore a high level of androgen activity is allowed.
This is based off the premise that the the higher Porency per mg of androgens are the higher heptatoxity.


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[charger69]

"And Id probably recommend that people keep doses of this product very low, much lower than recommended doses typical of the other 2 compounds I just mentioned (i.e. 500-750mcgs/day, for not much longer than 3-4 weeks). I have had the good fortune to discuss this product with the owner of an Underground Lab, and he had given out several samples of this stuff to athletes he knew, and they all kept records and got regular bloodwork done. People who were in the 2mg/day range developed highly elevated liver enzymes and Jaundice (yellowing of the eyes and skin). They all recovered, and through trial and error, a 500-750mcg dose was found to be (*relatively) safe, and (*roughly) as effective as 150-225mgs of Trenbolone Acetate."

Hmmm....

I would be careful in the data that you are using. What was the sample size, several people... hardly accurate data. Even less reliable coming from a UGL. Don’t confuse friendship with business. They do not.

I personally did blood tests after using Halo. Liver values were fucked. If my theory of heptatoxcity holds true, you should have seen even more pronounced liver values if the pill was actually legit.
Now all this being said..... 225 mg of tren is nothing.... at least for me.


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[redz]

If you’re not impressed with injectable tren you are doing something wrong or the gear is bunk. Having said that I have dabbled with methyl tren and it is a very strong compound but I wouldn’t make a habit of using it. It’s not only the liver toxicity you need to consider with it. There was a forum member that was messing around with it that died though I’m not in the know of the exact details. Just know it is most definitely more dangerous but if you don’t care about the risk that is your call.

[Rainshaker]

If you’re not impressed with injectable tren you are doing something wrong or the gear is bunk. Having said that I have dabbled with methyl tren and it is a very strong compound but I wouldn’t make a habit of using it. It’s not only the liver toxicity you need to consider with it. There was a forum member that was messing around with it that died though I’m not in the know of the exact details. Just know it is most definitely more dangerous but if you don’t care about the risk that is your call.

I have always bought Geneza so I know there is nothing wrong with my gear. Again I'm by no means saying that injectable tren doesnt do anything, just simply put I do not like the way it makes me feel for the results I get. I do understand the danger with Methyltrienolone just as I do with all c17aa orals. I dont think what I am proposing is by any means crazy.

We are talking 250mcg 2x per day for max 4 weeks. I'd even be ok with cutting it down to only 3 weeks at the end of cycle and giving my liver 3 weeks between the orals.

Again have milk thistle, tudca, dandelion root and tumeric extract to help support my liver throughout and as always if I start feeling like shit I will stop the orals and have my doc run my bloodwork to see what's going on. Will probably have bloodwork done after the first 4 weeks of Dbol as well just to see where my values are at. If they are overly elevated I will skip the Methyltrienolone all together this cycle.

Assuming that i do end up skipping it what would be something else good to throw in at the end of the cycle to help harden up some of the bloat gains from Dbol/Test?

Again guys I'm by no means an idiot and certainly not looking to do serious damage to myself. As far as a forum member dying from it, I'd need more details before I'd concern myself.
He may have been way overdosing or mixing with other toxic orals. Lots of things are deadly at the right dose, including H2O.

I'd also consider knocking the Methyltrienolone down to just one 250mcg tab split daily, just for extra safety. I really just want something to harden everything up at the end and still help push the gains to the max.

Appreciate the response from someone who has real experience to go off of rather than just spewing things you read at me.

[Rainshaker]

I would be careful in the data that you are using. What was the sample size, several people... hardly accurate data. Even less reliable coming from a UGL. Don’t confuse friendship with business. They do not.

I personally did blood tests after using Halo. Liver values were fucked. If my theory of heptatoxcity holds true, you should have seen even more pronounced liver values if the pill was actually legit.
Now all this being said..... 225 mg of tren is nothing.... at least for me.


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The data is just an excerpt from the Methyltrienolone profile here on this site. I'm not saying its 100% but I have seen this same info multiple places if you can sort through all the negative shit on Methyltrienolone anyway. Again guys please stop with the not legit comment, if you want to see how legit Geneza gear is order some, enough said.

[Rainshaker]

Have had some recommendations to run Priviron as a finisher instead of Methyltrienolone . Can honestly say I have never used or looked into this one. Thoughts?

They claim it will cause the hardening I am looking for from the Methyltrienolone but far less liver toxic and can help make other stuff more effective.

If I was to incorporate this would I want to run it the full 10wks with the dbol and test or wait until after the dbol and run it the last 4-5 weeks with the test?

[GearHeaded]

Have had some recommendations to run Priviron as a finisher instead of Methyltrienolone . Can honestly say I have never used or looked into this one. Thoughts?

They claim it will cause the hardening I am looking for from the Methyltrienolone but far less liver toxic and can help make other stuff more effective.

If I was to incorporate this would I want to run it the full 10wks with the dbol and test or wait until after the dbol and run it the last 4-5 weeks with the test?

proviron is nothing more then a DHT increaser , thats it. and remember, DHT is NOT anabolic in muscle tissue at all due to the enzyme 3 hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase that blocks DHT in muscle tissue . so Proviron has ZERO anabolic effects .
it raises DHT by the action of significantly lowering SHBG (binding protein that binds up DHT) and allowing therefore much more free DHT.

the raising of DHT is merely a 'cosmetic' effect (or as an anti estrogenic effect to a degree) , but not an anabolic one.

using DHT at the end of a cycle is fine for that cosmetic effect.. but hopefully you look fairly jacked and lean from the cycle you just ran and that cosmetic effect will actually make a difference. you know like your 4 weeks out from stepping on stage..
if your just an out of shape gym rat that would make himself look silly stepping on a stage right now , then the Proviron won't do much (accept give you acne and hair loss and prostate issues due to the elevation in DHT)..

so look in the mirror and decide if your in a position to benefit from merely cosmetic effects. and there is your answer.
if your in a position where your lean enough and jacked enough that you no longer need anabolic effects, and you merely need some muscle hardening and cosmetic effects , then run some proviron..
if your still to small and lack muscle that you want , then don't bother and stick with more anabolic muscle building based compounds

[charger69]

Have had some recommendations to run Priviron as a finisher instead of Methyltrienolone . Can honestly say I have never used or looked into this one. Thoughts?

They claim it will cause the hardening I am looking for from the Methyltrienolone but far less liver toxic and can help make other stuff more effective.

If I was to incorporate this would I want to run it the full 10wks with the dbol and test or wait until after the dbol and run it the last 4-5 weeks with the test?

Again guys please stop with the not legit comment, if you want to see how legit Geneza gear is order some, enough said.

Really?? Despite your rudeness to others, I try and help you and you tell me to censor my posts so I don’t waste your time???? I wouldn’t have fucking posted it if I didn’t feel it was important. I think you can read figure it out. You don’t want experiences, you want data.
Figure it out on your own. You are so high and mighty you don’t need any one else!!


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[i_SLAM_cougars]

Proviron and Methyl Tren isn’t even apples and oranges... it’s like apples and asteroids.

If you just want something to harden you up at the end of the cycle run halo for 3 weeks, or Winstrol after you drop the dbol . But keep in mind if you’re above say... 10% bodyfat you won’t really be able to see those cosmetic effects anyway

[Rainshaker]

Really?? Despite your rudeness to others, I try and help you and you tell me to censor my posts so I don’t waste your time???? I wouldn’t have fucking posted it if I didn’t feel it was important. I think you can read figure it out. You don’t want experiences, you want data.
Figure it out on your own. You are so high and mighty you don’t need any one else!!


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Have not been rude in the least to anyone who has contributed meaningful information. Seems to me like you have your panties in a knot because I'm not saying "yes massa charger you are all knowing god, and your advice is the end all be all." Simply stating that if you want to challenge my gear, maybe ask what gear I'm actually running and see for yourself if it meets your description of "bunk" or "underdosed". Apparently debate and not taking info just because someone says that it's the right info makes me an asshole. Well then I'll just keep being an asshole

I personally think making an assumption without asking for any supporting info is the more asshole move, but I guess that is just me.

[Rainshaker]

proviron is nothing more then a DHT increaser , thats it. and remember, DHT is NOT anabolic in muscle tissue at all due to the enzyme 3 hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase that blocks DHT in muscle tissue . so Proviron has ZERO anabolic effects .
it raises DHT by the action of significantly lowering SHBG (binding protein that binds up DHT) and allowing therefore much more free DHT.

the raising of DHT is merely a 'cosmetic' effect (or as an anti estrogenic effect to a degree) , but not an anabolic one.

using DHT at the end of a cycle is fine for that cosmetic effect.. but hopefully you look fairly jacked and lean from the cycle you just ran and that cosmetic effect will actually make a difference. you know like your 4 weeks out from stepping on stage..
if your just an out of shape gym rat that would make himself look silly stepping on a stage right now , then the Proviron won't do much (accept give you acne and hair loss and prostate issues due to the elevation in DHT)..

so look in the mirror and decide if your in a position to benefit from merely cosmetic effects. and there is your answer.
if your in a position where your lean enough and jacked enough that you no longer need anabolic effects, and you merely need some muscle hardening and cosmetic effects , then run some proviron..
if your still to small and lack muscle that you want , then don't bother and stick with more anabolic muscle building based compounds

Thanks man, fantastic response full of real usable information. Appreciate the input. Will just stick with the Dbol /Test as I'm looking to bulk mostly. Already under 7% BF so should be fine.

[Rainshaker]

Proviron and Methyl Tren isn’t even apples and oranges... it’s like apples and asteroids.

If you just want something to harden you up at the end of the cycle run halo for 3 weeks, or Winstrol after you drop the dbol. But keep in mind if you’re above say... 10% bodyfat you won’t really be able to see those cosmetic effects anyway

Thanks man, I realize the 2 don't even compare just had a few guys at Naps reccomend the Proviron, but I'll just stick with the Dbol /Test this time and see how it goes. Have never tried Winnie and the one time I ran Halo it made me feel like shit. Is winnie viable in the oral or would you reccomend pinning it?

[i_SLAM_cougars]

Thanks man, I realize the 2 don't even compare just had a few guys at Naps reccomend the Proviron, but I'll just stick with the Dbol/Test this time and see how it goes. Have never tried Winnie and the one time I ran Halo it made me feel like shit. Is winnie viable in the oral or would you reccomend pinning it?

If you’re talking about oral Winnie in pill form, yes. It’s perfectly fine. If you’re referring to drinking the water based suspension form of the injectable version, I’ve known people to do it, but I have no personal experience. I will say that lately I’ve come to believe that the injectable versions of many oral steroids work better at a lower dose than the oral version.

[Rainshaker]

If you’re talking about oral Winnie in pill form, yes. It’s perfectly fine. If you’re referring to drinking the water based suspension form of the injectable version, I’ve known people to do it, but I have no personal experience. I will say that lately I’ve come to believe that the injectable versions of many oral steroids work better at a lower dose than the oral version.

Lol most definitely referring to the pill form,can't say I would ever drink a injectable liquid, but I guess to each their own. Hmm and I've been under the impression that orals were far more active. Know for sure at least I have read that Dbol tends to be better in oral and even the injectable is still c17aa. I myself have always enjoyed the mix of Test E with an oral of choice.

When I was young and had no clue about this stuff, I ran 2
4-week cycles of Methyltrienolone , purchased from GNC. I literally ran just it with no test or anything. Only real sides I had that I could bitch about was sweats and back pumps.

[charger69]

Have not been rude in the least to anyone who has contributed meaningful information. Seems to me like you have your panties in a knot because I'm not saying "yes massa charger you are all knowing god, and your advice is the end all be all." Simply stating that if you want to challenge my gear, maybe ask what gear I'm actually running and see for yourself if it meets your description of "bunk" or "underdosed". Apparently debate and not taking info just because someone says that it's the right info makes me an asshole. Well then I'll just keep being an asshole

I personally think making an assumption without asking for any supporting info is the more asshole move, but I guess that is just me.

Meaningful to who??? That’s your problem. Meaningful is only what you want to hear.
I am by far not the most knowledgeable and I understand that. I try to help people and they can take it or leave it, I just want them to think about it. If they don’t want to think about it the. I am not going to waste my time on ignorance. I can’t stand the ignorant people that only want to hear certain answers like they own the world and the people helping are wasting their time.
At least I know enough not to use proviron and “oral tren ” in the Same sentence as to which one should I use.
If you hadn’t shut someone off, maybe you would be at least be that far educated.

I listen to everyone. Even the newbies, I am not that far removed that I can’t learn something new. I am just a common person trying to compete. I also expirement with things and determine what works for me. I try to pass that information even though everyone is different. It may or may not work for them.
Pretty soon you will burn all your bridges here and no one will help. It’s just a matter of time. I have seen your type come and go and they don’t last long with the attitude.


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[Rainshaker]

Meaningful to who??? That’s your problem. Meaningful is only what you want to hear.
I am by far not the most knowledgeable and I understand that. I try to help people and they can take it or leave it, I just want them to think about it. If they don’t want to think about it the. I am not going to waste my time on ignorance. I can’t stand the ignorant people that only want to hear certain answers like they own the world and the people helping are wasting their time.
At least I know enough not to use proviron and “oral tren ” in the Same sentence as to which one should I use.
If you hadn’t shut someone off, maybe you would be at least be that far educated.

I listen to everyone. Even the newbies, I am not that far removed that I can’t learn something new. I am just a common person trying to compete. I also expirement with things and determine what works for me. I try to pass that information even though everyone is different. It may or may not work for them.
Pretty soon you will burn all your bridges here and no one will help. It’s just a matter of time. I have seen your type come and go and they don’t last long with the attitude.


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Well I'd say meaningful to the guy who made the post would be a good place to start, considering you are responding to my post. Meaningful means that you have some data to corroborate your responses and also that you ask clarifying questions before making assumptions. Pretty sure I also said you gave me one of my first valid responses and thanked you for the meaningful info you did provide.

If I'm only looking for what I want to hear then why am I taking others feedback no problem when solid supporting info is provided even if it goes against my idea? Seems to me like you might be the one looking to hear what you want. Pretty sure if I just agreed with everything you said we wouldn't be have a pissing match right now, but again I'm not the type to agree with "opinions", I'm sorry that offends you so much.

As far as ignorance maybe you should look up the definition of the word. Ignorance would be the best way to describe the statement you made about my gear without asking any questions. Having a lack of the necessary info is what makes it ignorance and not stupidity.

We will see how long I last here, but I'm not too worried because I know there are plenty of people out there like me that thrive off real info and experiences. If the opinion giving folks don't like that I dont accept their ideas without supporting info then I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other threads here to waste your day away on.

[charger69]

Well I'd say meaningful to the guy who made the post would be a good place to start, considering you are responding to my post. Meaningful means that you have some data to corroborate your responses and also that you ask clarifying questions before making assumptions. Pretty sure I also said you gave me one of my first valid responses and thanked you for the meaningful info you did provide.

If I'm only looking for what I want to hear then why am I taking others feedback no problem when solid supporting info is provided even if it goes against my idea? Seems to me like you might be the one looking to hear what you want. Pretty sure if I just agreed with everything you said we wouldn't be have a pissing match right now, but again I'm not the type to agree with "opinions", I'm sorry that offends you so much.

As far as ignorance maybe you should look up the definition of the word. Ignorance would be the best way to describe the statement you made about my gear without asking any questions. Having a lack of the necessary info is what makes it ignorance and not stupidity.

We will see how long I last here, but I'm not too worried because I know there are plenty of people out there like me that thrive off real info and experiences. If the opinion giving folks don't like that I dont accept their ideas without supporting info then I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other threads here to waste your day away on.

See- you close your mind and only read what you want.::::
I said , most likely underdosed. if you read all the words. I have data showing that most of the people that don’t get the necessary effects from gear is because it’s underdosed. Not what you wanted to hear so selective reading. Do you have data saying that it wasn’t? Of course not.
That is not the only reason, but usually the reason.

Live in your fantasy world and ask all of your friends that didn’t have answers. You wouldn’t need us if you did.


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[Rainshaker]

See- you close your mind and only read what you want.::::
I said , most likely underdosed. if you read all the words. I have data showing that most of the people that don’t get the necessary effects from gear is because it’s underdosed. Not what you wanted to hear so selective reading. Do you have data saying that it wasn’t? Of course not.
That is not the only reason, but usually the reason.

Live in your fantasy world and ask all of your friends that didn’t have answers. You wouldn’t need us if you did.


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Just cant stay away from my thread huh? I fully read your posts and considered everything that was said before making my response. You say it was "most likely" underdosed, well was it the brand that made you think so? Was it where I purchased from that led you to believe that? Was it that its sat too long past its date? Couldn't have been any of those because again you never bothered to ask. No instead you made an assumption based off the fact that something did not effect me the exact same as it did you. Literally man about the best example if ignorance (lack of knowledge or information). And to think all people dont get the same effect because their gear is underdosed, that has to be one of the most closed mind statements I've heard all day. No way it could possibly be because we are all biologically unique and respond differently to things?

You keep saying "what I want to hear" but you keep providing no useable information. You come and you shit all over my thread and then accuse me of being the asshole. Maybe you need to go re-read everything we have both said and consider who is living in the fantasy. Don't you worry Massa Lord Charger, I'm not here to ruin your fantasy. I dont need you lol, it's simply looking for some educated conversation with like minded people.

Listen I really have no problem with you man, but if you cant change your attitude towards me, then I really see no point in you continuing to return to my thread. Again sorry we don't see eye to eye on things and best luck with your goals man.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Rainshaker...

I truly suggest you check your attitude at the door.
Everyone here has truly tried to help you.

[Windex]

Smarten up and toss the entitled crybaby attitude.

[Rainshaker]

Rainshaker...

I truly suggest you check your attitude at the door.
Everyone here has truly tried to help you.

I truly suggest you find other threads to reply to if you do not like my "attitude". I personally do not appreciate your attitude of pushing me to accept your biased opinion or be treated as an asshole. But again I am not choosing to come onto your threads to force my opinion or "lurk" without reason, so maybe you could show me the same respect?

[Rainshaker]

Smarten up and toss the entitled crybaby attitude.

I am very happy with my intelligence level actually but thanks for yet another opinion. As far as cry baby i guess I dont see where I have been crying. Almost seems like others are crying because I don't value their opinion. I've re-read this entire thread and it seems to me that anytime anyone has provided me with real information based in facts and science, I thank them and consider and adjust based upon the provided info.

I truly hope the Staff that is below your name does not refer to being staff for this forum. If so I must say forcing opinions upon people is not a good color on any staff member/moderator. Again I'm sorry I don't value your opinion, but that's just me man. As far as I know I'm not breaking any forum rules by not taking opinions without info, I will say though there are multiple members flirting with "trolling" at this point on my thread.

I've already decided against the Methyltrienolone due to REAL science I was helped to find on another forum with far less opinion pushing members. I don't quite grasp why you guys just keep coming back if you've given your 2 cents and still don't have anything of value to provide to the discussion.

[The Deadlifting Dog]

I truly suggest you find other threads to reply to if you do not like my "attitude". I personally do not appreciate your attitude of pushing me to accept your biased opinion or be treated as an asshole. But again I am not choosing to come onto your threads to force my opinion or "lurk" without reason, so maybe you could show me the same respect?

Ha!! You're a funny one.

Listen... your original question was can you take 20mgs of dbol with test, then test, then test and oral tren .
You then proceeded to state that you have taken oral tren in 4 cycles already and tren A and tren E at least once each.
So you have had at least 6 cycles of tren...
And you are asking if it is OK to take 20mg of dbol?!?!?!?
20mg of dbol is a baby cakes compared to tren cycles.
The sheer fact that you are asking leads me to believe that you don't know shit and you haven't taken tren 6 times already.

Then you go to say... well maybe I will drop the tren and do proviron .
As it was pointed out to you... oral tren is in an entire differnet league.

Everyone here has stated not to do the oral tren.
Some have taken oral tren. Others know people who have.

If you don't like their advice then you don't have to take it but you can at least thank people for their opinions.

And I quote you after you laid out your proposed cycle...
"Thoughts, questions, comments...."

Your words. We followed them. And you then bitched.