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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashop View Post
    I know guys who get gyno on TRT dosages of TEST so an AI or SERM is necessary for some. If you use them right an AI can be used safely with no side effects. I feel as though I always look better when I use a small amount of an AI. People get carried away with the amounts they use and that's where you see problems.
    There isnít concern about their safe use. The reason is that you are blocking estrogen. Estrogen is anabolic . Other than gyno, why would you want to block it?
    Yes, estrogen can lead to some water retention but unless you are taking large amounts of aromatizing substances, you should be OK.

    NOTE: everyone is different so this is a general comment and not all of the population fall into this category.


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    AI or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    There isnít concern about their safe use. The reason is that you are blocking estrogen. Estrogen is anabolic . Other than gyno, why would you want to block it?
    Yes, estrogen can lead to some water retention but unless you are taking large amounts of aromatizing substances, you should be OK.

    NOTE: everyone is different so this is a general comment and not all of the population fall into this category.


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    Honestly, Iím coming around to Broderick Chavezís way of thinking on this.
    If youíre gyno prone, just get the shit cut out and be done with it, instead of slowing your progress while trying to put off the inevitable.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    you don't need TRT with natty test levels 600+ .. no doc is likely going to prescribe you TRT with those levels .

    if you get on TRT when you already have naturally decent levels, your simply going to suppress those natural levels and it could be permanent . and thus actually make you and cause you to be hypogonadal .
    but again, if you want to "optimize" and take steroids cause you train and want to better yourself . then sure why not . but thats not TRT
    But do I? I realize my total T is what many physicians look at first but from everything ive read on the subject free test matter just as much if not more in some ways. My Free test is way low...

    I know you can function in life with low T. I'm a perfect example. The last 5 years ive been so busy building my company id sometimes go a month without doing a workout. eating terribly etc. I was productive working 80 or more hours a week but felt like shit because I was over weight, no energy, low test, and just felt shitty so I decided to make a change back to how I used to train and eat in my 20s. I'm now almost in the best shape of my life naturally which is why my Test even came back that high.

    Aside from introducing more Test into my body is there an alternative way to get my free testosterone up at least to normal levels?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dash Bronson View Post
    But do I? I realize my total T is what many physicians look at first but from everything ive read on the subject free test matter just as much if not more in some ways. My Free test is way low...

    I know you can function in life with low T. I'm a perfect example. The last 5 years ive been so busy building my company id sometimes go a month without doing a workout. eating terribly etc. I was productive working 80 or more hours a week but felt like shit because I was over weight, no energy, low test, and just felt shitty so I decided to make a change back to how I used to train and eat in my 20s. I'm now almost in the best shape of my life naturally which is why my Test even came back that high.

    Aside from introducing more Test into my body is there an alternative way to get my free testosterone up at least to normal levels?

    Proviron to eat up SHBG

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by liv2thafullest View Post
    Pinning

    I guees I had some other questions that didn't first dawn on me lol.

    About pinning, I know enanthate is a long Ester, however is once/week too little? Should I split it into 2x week, maybe Thursday and Monday or something like that? 300mg Thursday, 200mg Monday.

    Also about the pins themselves, I am buying from a regular pharmacy, is 22 gauge 1.5" ok for drawing and also injecting?

    Thanks
    Twice a week or every 3 days. With long estered tests, there is flexibility. but I would inject equal amounts every time so that levels in your body stay more consistent.

    As far as pinning goes, I would generally draw with a 19g needle and inject (depending on the thickness of the oil) with a 23g or 25g needle. A 22g would be fine. Remember to go slow when you inject (10 seconds per ml or slower).

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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    There isn’t concern about their safe use. The reason is that you are blocking estrogen. Estrogen is anabolic . Other than gyno, why would you want to block it?
    Yes, estrogen can lead to some water retention but unless you are taking large amounts of aromatizing substances, you should be OK.

    NOTE: everyone is different so this is a general comment and not all of the population fall into this category.


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    You said it best. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. I'm working with a guy in his late 40's right now thats on 70mg per week of TRT and showing signs of gyno. All our bodies can differ from one another. No set standard.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    There isnít concern about their safe use. The reason is that you are blocking estrogen. Estrogen is anabolic . Other than gyno, why would you want to block it?
    Yes, estrogen can lead to some water retention but unless you are taking large amounts of aromatizing substances, you should be OK.

    NOTE: everyone is different so this is a general comment and not all of the population fall into this category.


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    Strongly dont get this. Estrogen is anabolic but for sure test is way more anabolic.
    So why the heck is it ok for your prescious test to convert into something less anabolic??
    A little borderhigh is ok because of the cardiatic benefits, allowing to up the androgens in a safe way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AR's King Silabolin View Post
    Strongly dont get this. Estrogen is anabolic but for sure test is way more anabolic.
    So why the heck is it ok for your prescious test to convert into something less anabolic??
    A little borderhigh is ok because of the cardiatic benefits, allowing to up the androgens in a safe way.

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    Hypothetically, youíre right, but in practice it doesnít work that way. As Chavez has pointed out, talk to any guy with gyno (either present or removed) and ask them when their best gains happened. Nine times of ten, youíll get ďwhen this happenedĒ.
    Thatís the basis of his point about just getting the shit cut out if youíre prone, instead of dramatically slowing down progress in the name of trying to delay the inevitable.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Honestly, I’m coming around to Broderick Chavez’s way of thinking on this.
    If you’re gyno prone, just get the shit cut out and be done with it, instead of slowing your progress while trying to put off the inevitable.
    That’s what I would do. Or use gear that doesn’t convert to estrogen and just run test at TRT dose all the time.

  10. #50
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    AI or not?

    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    Thatís what I would do. Or use gear that doesnít convert to estrogen and just run test at TRT dose all the time.
    The only problem there, is that thereís a good chance that you cut yourself off from a few things that donít covert, but can still cause gyno of one type or another. Nandrolone , Tren , Anadrol , etc. also probably need to come off of the table.
    If I were suddenly limited to TRT test, Masteron , Primo and a handful of orals, Iíd personally either say ďfuck gearĒ altogether, or suck it up and get the surgery. A few thousand dollars and a short recovery period beats the fuck out of a lifetime of paranoia and stress, IMO.
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    The only problem there, is that there’s a good chance that you cut yourself off from a few things that don’t covert, but can still cause gyno of one type or another. Nandrolone , Tren , Anadrol , etc. also probably need to come off of the table.
    If I were suddenly limited to TRT test, Masteron, Primo and a handful of orals, I’d personally either say “fuck gear” altogether, or suck it up and get the surgery. A few thousand dollars and a short recovery period beats the fuck out of a lifetime of paranoia and stress, IMO.
    I agree 100% for anyone who’s serious about the life. But I imagine the more recreational lifter/gear user/ HRT/ “I don’t want to get TOO big” guys would benefit just fine from TRT test, primo, Var, EQ, DHB, Stenbolone, Masteron , Winstrol , tbol, halo, superdrol, HGH, SARMs , peptides, etc.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    I agree 100% for anyone whoís serious about the life. But I imagine the more recreational lifter/gear user/ HRT/ ďI donít want to get TOO bigĒ guys would benefit just fine from TRT test, primo, Var, EQ, DHB, Stenbolone, Masteron, Winstrol, tbol, halo, superdrol, HGH, SARMs, peptides, etc.
    Thatís absolutely fair.
    Iím one of the fortunate ones who just never had to give a shit because my aromatization is so low anyway. I do want to see just how far I can push it starting on my next cycle though, just to see what happens.
    Probably going to just run between 1-1.5g Test E/week with no ancils or anything else, because fuck it, why not? Iím not expecting anything earth shattering, but Iíve heard nothing but good things about getting solo test above the 1g/week range, and Iím curious to see how I respond.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    That’s absolutely fair.
    I’m one of the fortunate ones who just never had to give a shit because my aromatization is so low anyway. I do want to see just how far I can push it starting on my next cycle though, just to see what happens.
    Probably going to just run between 1-1.5g Test E/week with no ancils or anything else, because fuck it, why not? I’m not expecting anything earth shattering, but I’ve heard nothing but good things about getting solo test above the 1g/week range, and I’m curious to see how I respond.
    I’m in the same boat as you. I don’t think I have glands. I’ve never gotten so much as a pinhead sized lump, and that’s running a gram of test, 600mg of deca , and 100mg of Dbol a day. So I have to assume I just can’t get gyno. Never lactated or any of that weird shit from the 19nors either.

    Test at the 1000mg+ range is where it starts to shine. It’s like a whole new compound. I never use to run it that high and regarded it as just a base. That was a mistake. It becomes quite anabolic at the proper dosing. I could see running 1500-2000mg as a stand alone cycle, and getting good results from it. I probably won’t because phase cycling is still more efficient, but if test was the only thing you had access to I’m sure you could do pretty well running cycles like that.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    Iím in the same boat as you. I donít think I have glands. Iíve never gotten so much as a pinhead sized lump, and thatís running a gram of test, 600mg of deca , and 100mg of Dbol a day. So I have to assume I just canít get gyno. Never lactated or any of that weird shit from the 19nors either.

    Test at the 1000mg+ range is where it starts to shine. Itís like a whole new compound. I never use to run it that high and regarded it as just a base. That was a mistake. It becomes quite anabolic at the proper dosing. I could see running 1500-2000mg as a stand alone cycle, and getting good results from it. I probably wonít because phase cycling is still more efficient, but if test was the only thing you had access to Iím sure you could do pretty well running cycles like that.
    Yeah, itís something that I want to try ďjust becauseĒ. Iíve now played with most of the compounds that I have interest in (except Halo, but I canít find the shit from any source that I trust), so the next step is to start seeing how my body reacts to higher doses of them. Test is the obvious starter choice there, since it can be run completely solo.

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    Hadnt used one in over a year. Today i started using one again. My last bloods pulled a 90 on the E scale, test was 1500. This wasnt even a cycle , you cant have one without the other estrogen is just a bi product of test ďin a senseĒ

    High estrogen leads to high blood pressure and some fucked up mood swings and irritability. I had no choice but to ease back in the AI and see if it helps me. Like the vets said we are all different i am extremely sensitive to these hormones i dont take big doses hell i cant to many sides.

    One last thing im not a fan of the andro gel, id just stick with injecting. You really need to see where your estrogen is sitting to know whether u need an ai or not the dr knows this. I dont like the AI, but at this point im willing to try anything to get my mind right

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Thatís absolutely fair.
    Iím one of the fortunate ones who just never had to give a shit because my aromatization is so low anyway. I do want to see just how far I can push it starting on my next cycle though, just to see what happens.
    Probably going to just run between 1-1.5g Test E/week with no ancils or anything else, because fuck it, why not? Iím not expecting anything earth shattering, but Iíve heard nothing but good things about getting solo test above the 1g/week range, and Iím curious to see how I respond.
    You will do just fine. GH had what he called super osmotic compensation. 1.5 g test, MK, etc. , no AI. I fucking grew like a weed. The problem was that I got endema. I waited a little and lowered things for a week because it was getting painful. I had a little Obs on my shoulder telling me to do it (LOL). I said fuck it and went back up. I just couldnít keep going after 2 weeks.
    You do need to be careful when doing something like that because you can begin to shut down your body, but I have never grown like that before. When you see the incredible growth, you are like ďwowĒ, i didnít know that was possible.
    Anyone that says estrogen is bad, has never experienced this.
    Gallow- although different then my cycle, you will grow from it. I guarenteee you.


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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    You will do just fine. GH had what he called super osmotic compensation. 1.5 g test, MK, etc. , no AI. I fucking grew like a weed. The problem was that I got endema. I waited a little and lowered things for a week because it was getting painful. I had a little Obs on my shoulder telling me to do it (LOL). I said fuck it and went back up. I just couldnít keep going after 2 weeks.
    You do need to be careful when doing something like that because you can begin to shut down your body, but I have never grown like that before. When you see the incredible growth, you are like ďwowĒ, i didnít know that was possible.
    Anyone that says estrogen is bad, has never experienced this.
    Gallow- although different then my cycle, you will grow from it. I guarenteee you.


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    I may well toss some MK in there for shits and grins, as I keep hearing good things, and I know of more than one reliable source for it.
    ďTry everything once, repeat as desiredĒ and all of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    I may well toss some MK in there for shits and grins, as I keep hearing good things, and I know of more than one reliable source for it.
    ďTry everything once, repeat as desiredĒ and all of that.
    You are going to fall in love with MK. If you take slin it is even synergetic.
    You can get that from the same place you get your gear.... if you still use the Same place you were using. I never tried it from him because it is fairly new, but everything else is great, I would t expect any different for the MK.


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    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    You are going to fall in love with MK. If you take slin it is even synergetic.
    You can get that from the same place you get your gear.... if you still use the Same place you were using. I never tried it from him because it is fairly new, but everything else is great, I would t expect any different for the MK.


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    Yeah, same source and it likely is, but on a per mg cost basis, Iím probably going to go with Mike Arnoldís research chem MK. Had great stuff from his Tadalafil and several of the guys here would put his MK against anyoneís.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallowmere View Post
    Yeah, same source and it likely is, but on a per mg cost basis, I’m probably going to go with Mike Arnold’s research chem MK. Had great stuff from his Tadalafil and several of the guys here would put his MK against anyone’s.
    I use MA as well, just not the stuff off the research chem site. It’s off the supplement site, it’s called somatazine and comes in veg caps. MK is the shit. The combo of MK and slin off cycle was like being on cycle, and on cycle it’s like... well, it’s a game changer to be sure. Growth hormone and MK have been very good to my joints, ligaments, tendons, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    I use MA as well, just not the stuff off the research chem site. Itís off the supplement site, itís called somatazine and comes in veg caps. MK is the shit. The combo of MK and slin off cycle was like being on cycle, and on cycle itís like... well, itís a game changer to be sure. Growth hormone and MK have been very good to my joints, ligaments, tendons, etc.
    I've used MA Somatozine and had exceptional results from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    I use MA as well, just not the stuff off the research chem site. It’s off the supplement site, it’s called somatazine and comes in veg caps. MK is the shit. The combo of MK and slin off cycle was like being on cycle, and on cycle it’s like... well, it’s a game changer to be sure. Growth hormone and MK have been very good to my joints, ligaments, tendons, etc.
    What are your doses on the Somatozine? I got the human eating machine effect at 25mg 4 nights a week. Backing it down to 12.5 3 nights a week is working well with CJC/Ipamorelin at 5 nights a week. And even that dose seems to help with sleep and these (slightly older) joints of mine, too.

  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by cylon357 View Post
    What are your doses on the Somatozine? I got the human eating machine effect at 25mg 4 nights a week. Backing it down to 12.5 3 nights a week is working well with CJC/Ipamorelin at 5 nights a week. And even that dose seems to help with sleep and these (slightly older) joints of mine, too.
    Just depends on what I’m doing. If I’m cruising or using growth hormone throughout the day often times I’ll just use 12.5, when I ran it by itself I always took 25.

    It does stimulate ghrelin, so the hunger thing is real to be sure. I remember the first night I took it I woke up like 3-4 hours later and fucked the whole kitchen up. Like eating shredded cheese out of the bag over the sink, and eating peanut butter out of the jar with a spoon. It seems to calm down after week or so though. Or at least it did in my case.

    Either dose seems to knock my resting blood sugar levels up about 20 points. Doubling the dose may have kicked it up another 2-3 points but it certainly didn’t double it or anything like that.

    I also have a tendency to retain water with it, at least at first. That also seems to subside after a time. It’s hard to say right now, between that, the test, Dbol , slin, and the 400-500 grams of carbs I’m eating a day I’m surprised I’m not a water buffalo. Must be the cardio...

    I really didn’t expect much from it when I started, but Gearheaded talked it up, and he’s usually right about this stuff so i figured “why not?” It was a game changer for me for sure. I had this nagging shoulder pain in my left shoulder for about two years. Even deca didn’t get rid of it. A few weeks into MK it was gone completely.
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