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Thread: Minimum Viable dose

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    GargaML is offline Junior Member
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    Minimum Viable dose

    I tried to ask all questions in one place, but it seems the rules are very strict here.

    What is the minimal weekly test enanthate dosage needed to be effective at increasing strength if youre not hypogonadal. I hear 100mg is worthless. So whats worthwhile?

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    Well part of that question depends on how long are you going to run it? You’d see an increase from as a little as 200-300mg. And if you’re going to stay on it forever than 200mg is great. If you’re going to stay on it for 12 weeks and then come off I’d say it’s not worth running below 500mg, because you have to consider that you’re going to lose some coming off.
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    What about T, dbol & var.. (i'll ask more about how to combine these or if i even should in another thread lol) thx.!
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    Well part of that question depends on how long are you going to run it? You’d see an increase from as a little as 200-300mg. And if you’re going to stay on it forever than 200mg is great. If you’re going to stay on it for 12 weeks and then come off I’d say it’s not worth running below 500mg, because you have to consider that you’re going to lose some coming off.
    Wait a minute. I thought you could never come off. I recall someone telling me that in here. If I can come off I would absolutely love to try the minimum dose of 200. But from what I’ve been told here that’s not going to even get me to the level I’m at now naturally. Ideally, I would like to stay on for some interval of time it doesn’t really matter. 12 weeks sounds reasonable to me. Get some gains, then come off. To answer your question

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    I wouldn’t shut my natural test off for anything less than 500 mg a week. The reward wouldn’t be great enough to shut myself down.

    What are your stats?

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    GargaML is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    I wouldn’t shut my natural test off for anything less than 500 mg a week. The reward wouldn’t be great enough to shut myself down.

    What are your stats?
    Straight up huh? I like it. Thanks for the straightforward answer.

    Im guessing you mean
    Age 40
    Total test 717 ngdl
    Free test 12 ngdl
    190 lbs
    I am a powerlifter. I want to do what i have to in order to hit a few massive pulls. Then come off. Later in life when I have low testosterone Im up for trt.

    Is that what you meant by stats?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GargaML View Post
    Straight up huh? I like it. Thanks for the straightforward answer.

    Im guessing you mean
    Age 40
    Total test 717 ngdl
    Free test 12 ngdl
    190 lbs
    I am a powerlifter. I want to do what i have to in order to hit a few massive pulls. Then come off. Later in life when I have low testosterone Im up for trt.

    Is that what you meant by stats?
    Yes. Height weight age

    What is your cycle experience if any?

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    GargaML is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    Yes. Height weight age

    What is your cycle experience if any?
    5’9”
    No prior experience at all.

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    As much background info you can provide as well as your goals gives folks the opportunity to answer more specifically to your question. Shooting from the hip and painting with a broad brush are difficult as everyone is vastly different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GargaML View Post
    Wait a minute. I thought you could never come off. I recall someone telling me that in here. If I can come off I would absolutely love to try the minimum dose of 200. But from what I’ve been told here that’s not going to even get me to the level I’m at now naturally. Ideally, I would like to stay on for some interval of time it doesn’t really matter. 12 weeks sounds reasonable to me. Get some gains, then come off. To answer your question
    People cycle on and off all the time. Most people that are serious about it never come off, or end up hypergonadal as result of cycling after awhile, but you can most certainly cycle on and off. However as Cape Buffalo said, I wouldn’t go shutting my natural production down for anything less that 500mg.

    Most of my cycling is based around hypertrophy though. Maybe one of these other guys like Dead Lifting Dog or the guys that are more into power lifting can give you a more power lifting oriented cycle. I believe they utilize more orals than body builders do, and run estrogen heavy cycles, then offset them with a heavy androgen. So something along the lines of a lot of testosterone and dianabol , and then a mild dose of Tren or halo. But this being your first cycle there’s no need to get too creative. You would see a strength increase from 500mg of test. Maybe throw in some anavar or Dianabol to get the strength rolling. I say Anavar because there’s really no side effects. Dianabol is an estrogen bomb, and we don’t know if you’re prone to estrogenic side effects yet (man boobs). Also if you’re going to come off you can look up PCT protocols on here. They combine clomid and nolvadex to get your natural production going faster. I like using HCG as well. I find it beneficial, and it’s inexpensive. I recommend it regardless.

    Again, maybe one of the power lifting guys can offer you something more useful.
    Last edited by i_SLAM_cougars; 07-01-2020 at 07:39 PM.
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    1st cycle test only imo. See how you handle it and gains you make. No need to add anything to the 1st cycle.
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    GargaML is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    People cycle on and off all the time. Most people that are serious about it never come off, or end up hypergonadal as result of cycling after awhile, but you can most certainly cycle on and off. However as Cape Buffalo said, I wouldn’t go shutting my natural production down for anything less that 500mg.

    Most of my cycling is based around hypertrophy though. Maybe one of these other guys like Dead Lifting Dog or the guys that are more into power lifting can give you a more power lifting oriented cycle. I believe they utilize more orals than body builders do, and run estrogen heavy cycles, then offset them with a heavy androgen. So something along the lines of a lot of testosterone and dianabol , and then a mild dose of Tren or halo. But this being your first cycle there’s no need to get too creative. You would see a strength increase from 500mg of test. Maybe throw in some anavar or Dianabol to get the strength rolling. I say Anavar because there’s really no side effects. Dianabol is an estrogen bomb, and we don’t know if you’re prone to estrogenic side effects yet (man boobs). Also if you’re going to come off you can look up PCT protocols on here. They combine clomid and nolvadex to get your natural production going faster. I like using HCG as well. I find it beneficial, and it’s inexpensive. I recommend it regardless.

    Again, maybe one of the power lifting guys can offer you something more useful.
    So let me get this right. (Im sorry to fixate on this piece but its the one piece of info im truly seeking). Im getting conflicting messages. One person says you can come off and maintain natural production with pct. The other says 500 is the min cause anything less is not worth shutting off your production (implying youre Going to shutdown regardless of dose). Do you see my confusion?

    Is there a dose that wont shut me down in 12 week cycle but also gives tangible gains? Test and hcg only.
    Last edited by GargaML; 07-01-2020 at 08:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    1st cycle test only imo. See how you handle it and gains you make. No need to add anything to the 1st cycle.
    My plan exactly. Maybe hcg if i need it

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    Quote Originally Posted by GargaML View Post
    So let me get this right. (Im sorry to fixate on this piece but its the one piece of info im truly seeking). Im getting conflicting messages. One person says you can come off and maintain natural production with pct. The other says 500 is the min cause anything less is not worth shutting off your production (implying youre Going to shutdown regardless of dose). Do you see my confusion?

    Is there a dose that wont shut me down in 12 week cycle but also gives tangible gains? Test and hcg only.
    Nope. You introduce extraneous test into your body it’s going to stop natural production no matter the amount.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GargaML View Post
    I tried to ask all questions in one place, but it seems the rules are very strict here. I recommended posting your thread in the AAS Q&A forum as opposed to the TRT forum. Just like someone seeking diet advice shouldn't post in the workout forum. I was attempting to be helpful not strict.

    What is the minimal weekly test enanthate dosage needed to be effective at increasing strength if youre not hypogonadal. I hear 100mg is worthless. So whats worthwhile? Something that will get you above the natural level of testosterone. Say 200mg plus. Just note that whenever you go on steroids are at risk for damaging your HPTA. Meaning that, if you naturally produces say 717ng/dl test before your cycle, you may only produce 500ng/dl test when you come off.
    Quote Originally Posted by GargaML View Post
    Wait a minute. I thought you could never come off. If you are hypogonadal (Low T) then you are always hypogonadal. (there are exceptions) So people on TRT don't come off because if they did go off TRT they would simply go back to having Low T again. I recall someone telling me that in here. They assumed you had Low T simply because you posted in the TRT forum. That is why I recommend you post in the AAS Q&A forum. If I can come off I would absolutely love to try the minimum dose of 200. But from what I’ve been told here that’s not going to even get me to the level I’m at now naturally. No. You were told 100mg would likely get you to 800. Ideally, I would like to stay on for some interval of time it doesn’t really matter. 12 weeks sounds reasonable to me. Get some gains, then come off. To answer your question
    Quote Originally Posted by GargaML View Post
    Straight up huh? I like it. Thanks for the straightforward answer.

    Im guessing you mean
    Age 40
    Total test 717 ngdl
    Free test 12 ngdl
    190 lbs
    I am a powerlifter. I want to do what i have to in order to hit a few massive pulls. IMO: testosterone alone doesn't give much strength gains but it does allow you to recover quicker and thus train more. There are more advanced drugs that give strength gains. Then come off. Later in life when I have low testosterone Im up for trt.

    Is that what you meant by stats?
    Quote Originally Posted by GargaML View Post
    So let me get this right. (Im sorry to fixate on this piece but its the one piece of info im truly seeking). Im getting conflicting messages. You are not getting conflicting messages. This is all new to you and you simply are getting confused. One person says you can come off and maintain natural production with pct. Yes but you may damage your natural testosterone production. The other says 500 is the min cause anything less is not worth shutting off your production (implying youre Going to shutdown regardless of dose). He is saying that since you are shutting yourself down... and since you may damage your HPTA... He wouldn't recommend doing it for any less than 500mg/week. Do you see my confusion?

    Is there a dose that wont shut me down in 12 week cycle but also gives tangible gains? No, pretty much any dose will shut you down. Test and hcg only.
    See above in red.

    Just added this... I think this is part of your confusion.
    When you take AAS you shut down.
    When you stop you take PCT to help restore your natural production.
    You always run the risk that you don't restore back to your starting point. (Your HPTA gets damaged.)
    This is why people say, if you are going to use you should at least use a decent enough dose, say 500mg/week.

    I hope this helps.

    FYI: I am a 49yr competitive powerlifter. At our age it ain't easy.
    Last edited by The Deadlifting Dog; 07-01-2020 at 09:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    See above in red.

    Just added this... I think this is part of your confusion.
    When you take AAS you shut down.
    When you stop you take PCT to help restore your natural production.
    You always run the risk that you don't restore back to your starting point. (Your HPTA gets damaged.)
    This is why people say, if you are going to use you should at least use a decent enough dose, say 500mg/week.

    I hope this helps.

    FYI: I am a 49yr competitive powerlifter. At our age it ain't easy.
    Great through answers here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capebuffalo View Post
    Great through answers here.
    Thank you. Just trying to help.

    It ain't rocket science but it sure can be confusing to someone at first.
    I remember when I first started.
    I outsmarted everyone and injected test P sub Q ED to avoid pinning IM.
    Ended up with black and blue welts across my stomach.
    Couldn't get a good night sleep for days it hurt so bad.

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    Go read this. Lots of good info there about everything you need to know, including PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    See above in red.

    Just added this... I think this is part of your confusion.
    When you take AAS you shut down.
    When you stop you take PCT to help restore your natural production.
    You always run the risk that you don't restore back to your starting point. (Your HPTA gets damaged.)
    This is why people say, if you are going to use you should at least use a decent enough dose, say 500mg/week.

    I hope this helps.

    FYI: I am a 49yr competitive powerlifter. At our age it ain't easy.
    Man, hell yea. Thank you for taking the time to educate my bitch ass and putting the puzzle pieces together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cylon357 View Post
    Go read this. Lots of good info there about everything you need to know, including PCT.
    Very nice. And the OP seems to be in the same town as me

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    After reading all of this and the great post by a member from TX 7 years ago, I decided not to run anything less than 200-300mg per week (test) during my first 12 wk cycle plus hcg ...thanks to all of your inputs. I'd opt for more but I think 2-300 is as much as I'll be able to get with my current resources. Unfortunately, to stockpile that much I'll have to wait til September to start but at least I have a plan.

    Thanks again.

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    Do you plan on doing blood work mid / post cycle? I will be interested in seeing where those doses put your levels, especially relative to your natural production.

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    200mgs is double you naturall test levels. So Im at 650 free test on 100mgs, now everyone is different but you should be somewhere close to that, so then 1300 would give you decents results with a good diet and exercise. So now you ask yourself what kind of gains are you looking for. Because at 200mgs you will get subtle gains, 500mgs your going to have very noticeable, people will ask if you are using. 200-250 would be good for a first try, see how you react, see what sides you get from it and if its even something you want to do. Its best to start lower and learn what side effects you get at certain dosages and the sides you get from different compounds. Thats why you want to start with just test, see how that goes then if you add a secondary compound the next time you will be able to see what sides you get from that. Takes the guessing out.
    Last edited by BG; 07-04-2020 at 08:59 AM. Reason: horrible spelling and missing words
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    Disclaimer-BG is presenting fictitious opinions and does in no way encourage nor condone the use of any illegal substances.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cylon357 View Post
    Do you plan on doing blood work mid / post cycle? I will be interested in seeing where those doses put your levels, especially relative to your natural production.

    Absolutely. I plan on doing bloodwork every 90 days for the first year. I will post all of that here when i do it. Mind you I have not grown the balls yet but knowledge helps with the confidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BG View Post
    200mgs is double you naturall test levels. So Im at 650 free test on 100mgs, now everyone is different but you should be somewhere close to that, so then 1300 would give you decents results with a good diet and exercise. So now you ask yourself what kind of gains are you looking for. Because at 200mgs you will get subtle gains, 500mgs your going to have very noticeable, people will ask if you are using. 200-250 would be good for a first try, see how you react, see what sides you get from it and if its even something you want to do. Its best to start lower and learn what side effects you get at certain dosages and the sides you get from different compounds. Thats why you want to start with just test, see how that goes then if you add a secondary compound the next time you will be able to see what sides you get from that. Takes the guessing out.
    This is a refreshingly different perspective that no one has offered here in my opinion(i’m sorry if anyone reading this is offended but it’s true). So thank you. I have a few questions

    When you said 1300 did you mean 300?

    When you said to start lower and move up, does that mean you recommend starting with 100? Or is 200 /wk a good start.


    Are you saying you are at 650 free after all of your stuff has shut down naturally and you are coasting off 100 per week?

    Test and hCG is all I want to do at first.
    Last edited by GargaML; 07-04-2020 at 09:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GargaML View Post
    This is a refreshingly different perspective that no one has offered here in my opinion(i’m sorry if anyone reading this is offended but it’s true). So thank you. I have a few questions

    When you said 1300 did you mean 300?

    When you said to start lower and move up, does that mean you recommend starting with 100? Or is 200 /wk a good start.


    Are you saying you are at 650 free after all of your stuff has shut down naturally and you are coasting off 100 per week?

    Test and hCG is all I want to do it first.
    I believe he’s talking about “total testosterone ” the scale is like 265-915ng/dL.

    As a general rule every 100mg of testosterone Cypionate or enanthate should knock you up about 500 points on that scale (usually it’s a big higher). So yes, 200mg a week should put you over 1000 total, which is slightly off the charts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars View Post
    I believe heís talking about ďtotal testosterone Ē the scale is like 265-915ng/dL.

    As a general rule every 100mg of testosterone Cypionate or enanthate should knock you up about 500 points on that scale (usually itís a big higher). So yes, 200mg a week should put you over 1000 total, which is slightly off the charts.
    Too much variation for that rule to be of any use imo. I'm at 1000 with 80mg (with 700 IU HCG ).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemeral View Post
    Too much variation for that rule to be of any use imo. I'm at 1000 with 80mg (with 700 IU HCG).
    Wait a minute. Hold the phone. You’re telling me you’re at 1000 free testosterone using 80 mg per week? Are you Strong, or Jacked? Were you hypogonadal before you started?

    I’m fascinated by this. It goes in the face of everything everyone has said here

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    Minimum Viable dose

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemeral View Post
    Too much variation for that rule to be of any use imo. I'm at 1000 with 80mg (with 700 IU HCG).
    Without adding to more confusion I disagree with you, and very much agree with the general rule previously stated.

    That rule is that you can take the mg test administered per week multiply it by 5 and that will roughly equate to hour total test value when running labs. Keep in mind everyone metabolizes test a little differently but thus general rule is a good basis (worse case the 5 multiplier is a 3.5 best case 5.5 generally). Also keep in mind this is assuming your test is 100% legit and correctly dosed, and is just a broad estimation that does not take things like hcg (negligible effects) or other compounds you may run concurrently.

    Now using this general rule you can clearly see that 150 mg test weekly will put you around 750 total test level, and if your at a 700 level of test naturally itís a useless amount to run.

    Im with the people saying 500mg is a good place to start. Itís not that around 250-300mg per week wouldnít be noticed itís just not worth it imo, especially if your 40 plus years old. I am of the strong belief that building completely new tissue beyond 40 is very very different than a 20-30 year old putting on new mass. Simple truth as people age we just donít assimilate food nearly as well. Iím definitely not saying itís not possible itís just more challenging.

    With all that being said if your 5í9Ē at 190lbs thatís a pretty good size base naturally if your body fat is relatively low. What do you honestly estimate your body fat percentage currently? Iím not a you have to be Uber lean to run gear proponent, but if your over 16% or so things can get be a bit more complicated with aromatization etc.


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    Quote Originally Posted by GargaML View Post
    Wait a minute. Hold the phone. You’re telling me you’re at 1000 free testosterone using 80 mg per week? Are you Strong, or Jacked? Were you hypogonadal before you started?

    I’m fascinated by this. It goes in the face of everything everyone has said here
    I's total T, not free. I was at 300 when I started TRT. It's not really surprising, usually 100mg is a good starting point, and it's enough for a lot of ppl, more than 150 is rarely needed. This is just for TRT of course.
    Last edited by Ephemeral; 07-04-2020 at 03:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Without adding to more confusion I disagree with you, and very much agree with the general rule previously stated.

    That rule is that you can take the mg test administered per week multiply it by 5 and that will roughly equate to hour total test value when running labs. Keep in mind everyone metabolizes test a little differently but thus general rule is a good basis (worse case the 5 multiplier is a 3.5 best case 5.5 generally). Also keep in mind this is assuming your test is 100% legit and correctly dosed, and is just a broad estimation that does not take things like hcg (negligible effects) or other compounds you may run concurrently.

    Now using this general rule you can clearly see that 150 mg test weekly will put you around 750 total test level, and if your at a 700 level of test naturally itís a useless amount to run.
    HCG is not negligible at all, there was a study indicating that up to 300 ng/dL in T production can be expected from HCG doses >875 IU per week (to be fair, <500 doses didn't do much). This matched my own experience as well. I've also seen a lot of TRT lab results in the last 2-3 years, and your numbers seem to be off. But it doesn't really matter, it's a trial and error process anyway for everyone to dial the dose in, just start somewhere and modify after every 6 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by balance View Post
    Without adding to more confusion I disagree with you, and very much agree with the general rule previously stated.

    That rule is that you can take the mg test administered per week multiply it by 5 and that will roughly equate to hour total test value when running labs. Keep in mind everyone metabolizes test a little differently but thus general rule is a good basis (worse case the 5 multiplier is a 3.5 best case 5.5 generally). Also keep in mind this is assuming your test is 100% legit and correctly dosed, and is just a broad estimation that does not take things like hcg (negligible effects) or other compounds you may run concurrently.

    Now using this general rule you can clearly see that 150 mg test weekly will put you around 750 total test level, and if your at a 700 level of test naturally itís a useless amount to run.

    Im with the people saying 500mg is a good place to start. Itís not that around 250-300mg per week wouldnít be noticed itís just not worth it imo, especially if your 40 plus years old. I am of the strong belief that building completely new tissue beyond 40 is very very different than a 20-30 year old putting on new mass. Simple truth as people age we just donít assimilate food nearly as well. Iím definitely not saying itís not possible itís just more challenging.

    With all that being said if your 5í9Ē at 190lbs thatís a pretty good size base naturally if your body fat is relatively low. What do you honestly estimate your body fat percentage currently? Iím not a you have to be Uber lean to run gear proponent, but if your over 16% or so things can get be a bit more complicated with aromatization etc.


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    I just saw this. Thanks for your input. I would say my body fat is around 10 Percent. I train really hard about five days per week. In my head Iím always about to sign up for another powerlifting competition, but I donít always do it. I work from home and I do two-a-days usually. I donít eat very well but I can improve that part. I think, theoretically, if I introduced 200 mg into my routine I would see some pretty big impact for the first 90 days or so from what I read. But I see what youíre saying as well not being worth it.

    If that guy is at 1000, using 80 mg per week I sure would like to hear about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemeral View Post
    I's total T, not free. I was at 300 when I started TRT. It's not really surprising, usually 100mg is a good starting point, and it's enough for a lot of ppl, more than 150 is rarely needed. This is just for TRT of course.
    OK that makes more sense. I’m at 700 now without any TRT. I was trying to gather if it was worth it to take less than 200 mg per week. Thanks for your input

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    GargaML is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ephemeral View Post
    HCG is not negligible at all, there was a study indicating that up to 300 ng/dL in T production can be expected from HCG doses >875 IU per week (to be fair, <500 doses didn't do much). This matched my own experience as well. I've also seen a lot of TRT lab results in the last 2-3 years, and your numbers seem to be off. But it doesn't really matter, it's a trial and error process anyway for everyone to dial the dose in, just start somewhere and modify after every 6 weeks.
    I’m trying to determine that “somewhere “to the best of my ability. So far everyone says 500, but that seems excessive to me. I’m really not interested in that high of a dose. My hematocrit is already just under 50, I want to live. that’s why I’m looking for any evidence that I can start with less, much to the dismay of a lot of these guys. I like your different perspective. Keep it coming

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    Guys. Maybe the question can be better addressed if I didnít have any time limit on the cycle. Meaning, I would rather do a low dose for a longer period then a massive amount for 8 to 12 weeks. Not sure if that changes anyoneís answer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GargaML View Post
    Guys. Maybe the question can be better addressed if I didnít have any time limit on the cycle. Meaning, I would rather do a low dose for a longer period then a massive amount for 8 to 12 weeks. Not sure if that changes anyoneís answer.
    Doing a low dose for longer is TRT. Though it varies, I don't see many people going over 200mg / week for TRT, usually less. I'm pretty sure you said you don't want to make a life time commitment to TRT.

    Some things I think need to be stated clearly:
    1 - Any amount of AAS (incuding T) will lead to suppression and / or complete shut down. Suppression vs shutdown is a matter of time, dose, and drug.
    2 - At 40, most men are good candidates to for TRT. Your natural numbers though are pretty good. Thus why most have recommended against TRT and if you are going to use T, going for a higher dose.
    3 - Recovery from suppression is more difficult as we age.
    4 - You seem all over the place. Decide what you want.

    I listed #4 last but it is the most important. You have said that you don't want to risk shutdown, but cycling and TRT both run that very real risk.

    Somewhere Austinite has a very good explanation of the HPTA. You ought to find it and read it. The questions you are asking and the surprise you show at some of the answers indicates that would be a very worthwhile read.
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    GargaML is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by cylon357 View Post
    Doing a low dose for longer is TRT. Though it varies, I don't see many people going over 200mg / week for TRT, usually less. I'm pretty sure you said you don't want to make a life time commitment to TRT.

    Some things I think need to be stated clearly:
    1 - Any amount of AAS (incuding T) will lead to suppression and / or complete shut down. Suppression vs shutdown is a matter of time, dose, and drug.
    2 - At 40, most men are good candidates to for TRT. Your natural numbers though are pretty good. Thus why most have recommended against TRT and if you are going to use T, going for a higher dose.
    3 - Recovery from suppression is more difficult as we age.
    4 - You seem all over the place. Decide what you want.

    I listed #4 last but it is the most important. You have said that you don't want to risk shutdown, but cycling and TRT both run that very real risk.

    Somewhere Austinite has a very good explanation of the HPTA. You ought to find it and read it. The questions you are asking and the surprise you show at some of the answers indicates that would be a very worthwhile read.
    1. I know now. It took multiple dialogues to figure out shut down was not permanent necessarily and that was where I was stuck.

    2. Yup. I had that part down as well.

    3. This also makes sense. I knew this piece of information as well.

    4. I am the opposite of all over the place I am focused like a laser and I know exactly what I want. Much like a machine learning algorithm I’m trying to take the opinions of a bunch of different models to come up with a weighted answer. No three people say the same thing, and I expect that. That’s why am here together multiple opinions before I do exactly what I was aiming to do. But I will enter at the proper point because of you guys. Gracias.

    Also, I know I will be shut down. The severity and length of that shut down is a variable. I have gathered this information thank you.

    I have read that post at least 24 times, day and night. I can recite all the dosages by memory. I have already ordered all of the requisite material. I am proud to be from the same town as that original poster as I have said in three or four posts prior to this.

    Sorry if I have frustrated anyone. But my goal is to gather information.
    Last edited by GargaML; 07-05-2020 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    GargaML is offline Junior Member
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    I’d really love to hear from BG again.

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    GargaML

    One thing I think you are missing is:
    The longer you are on cycle the harder the recovery can be.
    Think if it this way...
    If you start a car up every day, it fires right up.
    If you start it up every month, it probably fires up fine.
    If you start a car up once a year, it may not fire up at all. And if it does fire up, it probably will run like shit.


    So yes, you can make gains at 200mg/week but you may have to run it for a year straight to reach your goals.
    You may reach those goals in 12-16 weeks at 500mg/week.
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  40. #40
    GargaML is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    GargaML

    One thing I think you are missing is:
    The longer you are on cycle the harder the recovery can be.
    Think if it this way...
    If you start a car up every day, it fires right up.
    If you start it up every month, it probably fires up fine.
    If you start a car up once a year, it may not fire up at all. And if it does fire up, it probably will run like shit.


    So yes, you can make gains at 200mg/week but you may have to run it for a year straight to reach your goals.
    You may reach those goals in 12-16 weeks at 500mg/week.
    That makes perfect sense to me. Especially because I’m 40 now, it might be even more difficult. And I’m assuming from what you say it would be easier to recover from a short intense cycle then a long slow burn.

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