4 1/2 weeks into first cycle test e, feel no different

**kiki123** · 06-29-2020, 05:53 PM

4 1/2 weeks into 400mg /wk test e first cycle. Trained natty for 15 years now 37yo. I will definitely know if I'm experiencing changes to strength, fullness etc. So far I feel the same. Weight pretty much the same. I took blood test this morning for testosterone and estrogen will get results back by tomorrow and post here. In the mean time, anybody else experienced a delayed response to test e? I'm beginning to think I have some kind of mutant immunity to peds lol. Few months prior to this cycle I took lgd and Rad140 and all I got out of it was bad bloodwork.

**Test Monsterone** · 06-29-2020, 06:04 PM

I'll be honest, 400 mg is not very much for a cycle. I started at 32 and I was at or near my genetic potential. I started at 400, felt nothing, bumped it up to around 800 until I finally felt something, 8-9 weeks in. Really though, you would only really feel anything after 6 or so weeks, but at that dose, you may not feel much.

You'd be surprised how little a gram of test really does for many of us. I look a little better on cycle, but nothing spectacular.

**kiki123** · 06-29-2020, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

I'll be honest, 400 mg is not very much for a cycle. I started at 32 and I was at or near my genetic potential. I started at 400, felt nothing, bumped it up to around 800 until I finally felt something, 8-9 weeks in. Really though, you would only really feel anything after 6 or so weeks, but at that dose, you may not feel much.

You'd be surprised how little a gram of test really does for many of us. I look a little better on cycle, but nothing spectacular.

I'm curious, at the 400 or even 800mg dose did you get any sides? How was your estrogen did you even need an ai? I'm currently not taking an ai as I'm not holding water, or feeling any other sides.. All should be revealed with my bloodwork.

Should I have saturated my test levels by now? as in, will my test levels continue to rise or stay roughly the same if my dose remains at 400mg.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 06-29-2020, 07:00 PM

By week four of test C or test E I would venture you are at 80%+ peak plasma levels.

If you haven't put on any weight I would be concerned.
Are you dieting by any chance?

What are your stats? Height, weight, bf%?

I would imagine by week 4 of 400mg est with no AI that you should have put on some water weight.

**Test Monsterone** · 06-29-2020, 07:03 PM

The test levels in the blood rise and fall according to the half-life of the compound. So I don't think it matters, as far as blood work testosterone readings, if you just started your cycle or you're 3 months in. If you skip a dose 3 months in, it will show as having low t. There are many biological processes that happen as your body adjusts to the increase in testosterone. That is what takes 6 weeks (or more) to kick in.

I think I took a low-dose arimidex , something like .25 mg/ 2x week. When I don't take an AI I start getting puffy hands, my face gets puffier, and I feel kinda crappy.

You don't have to get everything right the first time around, or the second....or third. Just be smart, be observant, listen to your body, and make the right adjustments. Any time you are in transition (adding compounds, increasing/decreasing doses), you are going to deal with side effects more so than when you stabilize. You may even get estrogenic side effects that reduce after a while. Getting blood work is smart, and I'm glad you're taking that into account. After a few cycles you can kind of feel things out. You don't have to get blood work to know your estrogen will rise, your HDL will decrease, LDL increase, and your RBC/hematocrit increase. Your liver enzymes may increase because of the additional muscle breakdown from lifting more.

**kiki123** · 06-29-2020, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

The test levels in the blood rise and fall according to the half-life of the compound. So I don't think it matters, as far as blood work testosterone readings, if you just started your cycle or you're 3 months in. If you skip a dose 3 months in, it will show as having low t.

Well I'm kind of relying on this blood test to prove my gear is legit and how much I aromatise to estrogen. Last pin was Sunday a d blood test was on Tues morning so I'm expecting much higher than baseline levels.

**kiki123** · 06-29-2020, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

By week four of test C or test E I would venture you are at 80%+ peak plasma levels.

If you haven't put on any weight I would be concerned.
Are you dieting by any chance?

What are your stats? Height, weight, bf%?

I would imagine by week 4 of 400mg est with no AI that you should have put on some water weight.

https://ibb.co/g7QZ82P

About 14%. This pic was just before I tried any sarms or gear. Im 5'10 180lbs. I've cut calories ever so slightly to around 3300 calories down from 3500.

**kiki123** · 06-30-2020, 12:05 AM

Results are in on same day. Definitely higher than normal lol. I see my e2 has increased by roughly the same factor as my free test. Total test doesn't tell me much. The units are in nmol/L and pmol/L. I can do the conversion if required. Is the free test value in the ballpark of what to expect on 400mg test, 2 days after last pin?

Should I be popping an AI at this point? I have exemestane 25mg tabs but havnt used any yet. As I said, I'm not really holding any water only side is maybe slightly oily face but no acne etc.

FREE TESTOSTERONE
Ref. Range Testosterone > 50.0 nmol/L * (8.7 - 29.0)
SHBG 19 nmol/L (13 - 71)
Free Testosterone 1734 pmol/L * (198 - 619)

REPRODUCTIVE HORMONES Specimen taken on 30/06/2020 at 7:18 am Ref.range
Oestradiol 460 pmol/L * (< 161)

https://ibb.co/wcgbSBj

**i_SLAM_cougars** · 06-30-2020, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by kiki123

4 1/2 weeks into 400mg /wk test e first cycle. Trained natty for 15 years now 37yo. I will definitely know if I'm experiencing changes to strength, fullness etc. So far I feel the same. Weight pretty much the same. I took blood test this morning for testosterone and estrogen will get results back by tomorrow and post here. In the mean time, anybody else experienced a delayed response to test e? I'm beginning to think I have some kind of mutant immunity to peds lol. Few months prior to this cycle I took lgd and Rad140 and all I got out of it was bad bloodwork.

400mg of total gear is less that most of our cruises, bridges, or “HRT”. You’re not going to see any magic from it. What you should see is some increased fullness, a small increase in Strength and muscular endurance, and you’ll get to gauge your body’s response to hormone fluctuation as well as your sensitivity to increased estrogen and androgen. The good thing about low dose cycles is that they aren’t beating your body up so you can essentially stay on them forever. You may not see anything in 5 weeks. You may not in 8 weeks. You’ll probably notice the difference by 12 weeks. By weeks 16-20 you’re going to notice that you’re recovering faster, you’re progressing faster, you’re not hitting plateaus. It’s not magic by any means. It’s not like putting a supercharger on your car. It’s more like changing the tune in your car from “economy” to “light performance”.

Take advantage of your new found bonus. Keep your diet on point, and train hard. You’ll get there.

**kiki123** · 06-30-2020, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars

400mg of total gear is less that most of our cruises, bridges, or “HRT”. You’re not going to see any magic from it. What you should see is some increased fullness, a small increase in Strength and muscular endurance, and you’ll get to gauge your body’s response to hormone fluctuation as well as your sensitivity to increased estrogen and androgen. The good thing about low dose cycles is that they aren’t beating your body up so you can essentially stay on them forever. You may not see anything in 5 weeks. You may not in 8 weeks. You’ll probably notice the difference by 12 weeks. By weeks 16-20 you’re going to notice that you’re recovering faster, you’re progressing faster, you’re not hitting plateaus. It’s not magic by any means. It’s not like putting a supercharger on your car. It’s more like changing the tune in your car from “economy” to “light performance”.

Take advantage of your new found bonus. Keep your diet on point, and train hard. You’ll get there.

Yes I'm sure 400mg is relatively low dose to alot of the vets here. But bearing in mind this is my first cycle. The cycle results section is full of first cycles making 15+lbs of gains from 400mg or less. But as Test Monsterone said he needed to up his dose to 800mg to get the benefits and this was my case with Sarms also. I guess it just proves some are hyper responders to low doses and others need to double down on the dose for the same return. I only have enough test for 12weeks, I could consider extending to 16 but I think its better to stick to 12 weeks, do proper pct and revisit my strategy towards the end of the year. Still early days so will wait to see how I respond in the second half of this cycle.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 06-30-2020, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by kiki123

Yes I'm sure 400mg is relatively low dose to alot of the vets here. But bearing in mind this is my first cycle. The cycle results section is full of first cycles making 15+lbs of gains from 400mg or less. But as Test Monsterone said he needed to up his dose to 800mg to get the benefits and this was my case with Sarms also. I guess it just proves some are hyper responders to low doses and others need to double down on the dose for the same return. I only have enough test for 12weeks, I could consider extending to 16 but I think its better to stick to 12 weeks, do proper pct and revisit my strategy towards the end of the year. Still early days so will wait to see how I respond in the second half of this cycle.

If you want to grow then you shouldn't have cut your calories.
You should have increased your calories.
You cannot create matter from nothing. It's physics.
Sure you may hold some water but to actually grow tissue you need energy.

Also being that you just did a rad-140 and LGD cycle I wouldn't consider this your first cycle.
I've never done either but LGD is supposedly pretty strong.

**i_SLAM_cougars** · 06-30-2020, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog

If you want to grow then you shouldn't have cut your calories.
You should have increased your calories.
You cannot create matter from nothing. It's physics.
Sure you may hold some water but to actually grow tissue you need energy.

Also being that you just did a rad-140 and LGD cycle I wouldn't consider this your first cycle.
I've never done either but LGD is supposedly pretty strong.

Good catch on the calories.
This is no time to back off. Especially on carbs. Your body is much more efficient with carbohydrates on cycle.

**kiki123** · 06-30-2020, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by i_SLAM_cougars

Good catch on the calories.
This is no time to back off. Especially on carbs. Your body is much more efficient with carbohydrates on cycle.

Roger that. I'll head on over to the diet section. I'm certainly not treating this like a cut, basically maintenance calories at 3300cal. Easy for me to eat more just don't want to get fat at all costs.

**Mooseman33** · 07-01-2020, 07:31 AM

if diet and training are on point, 400mg test for first cycle is plenty to grow.

no way in hell would i suggest 800mg for for cycle.

go to diet section, learn how to really grow.

**The Deadlifting Dog** · 07-01-2020, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by kiki123

Roger that. I'll head on over to the diet section. I'm certainly not treating this like a cut, basically maintenance calories at 3300cal. Easy for me to eat more just don't want to get fat at all costs.

Just realize that if anything, being on cycle will raise your metablosim.
(Think about guys talking about being hot and sweaty, and oily, and the body producing more RBC.... this all takes energy as in calories.)

So you may need to raise calories simply because you are on cycle.

It is very common for guys to complain about not being able to grow but meanwhile they don't eat enough.
You have to eat big to be big.

**Capebuffalo** · 07-01-2020, 10:19 AM

What is your TDEE?

**SampsonandDelilah** · 07-01-2020, 10:24 AM

Lifting is the easy part, the kitchen is where the hard work starts. Love your willingness to hit the diet section. TDEE is certainly important.

A quick formula I’ve used with success is body weight X 15 for maintenance calories. Take that number and add 500 for growth (equates to about 18 calories per pound of body weight). Take the total number and divide by 6 (that’s how many calories you need per meal). Then divvy that up into micros.

For me I do well with a 40/40/20 split.

Proteins/carbs/fats.

It’s a generic formula, but actually works quite well.

Good luck

BG · 07-01-2020, 01:54 PM

400mgs is fine, thats 3x more then natural. What brand are you using? Be interesting to see your blood results for sure.

BG · 07-01-2020, 01:56 PM

If you weigh 200lbs then your only eating enough to be 200lbs, you want to weight 225 then you have to eat like you weigh 225lbs.

BG · 07-01-2020, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah

Lifting is the easy part, the kitchen is where the hard work starts. Love your willingness to hit the diet section. TDEE is certainly important.

A quick formula I’ve used with success is body weight X 15 for maintenance calories. Take that number and add 500 for growth (equates to about 18 calories per pound of body weight). Take the total number and divide by 6 (that’s how many calories you need per meal). Then divvy that up into micros.

For me I do well with a 40/40/20 split.

Proteins/carbs/fats.

It’s a generic formula, but actually works quite well.

Good luck

I do believe many people over think diets and thats why they can not stay on them for long.

**SampsonandDelilah** · 07-01-2020, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by BG

400mgs is fine, thats 3x more then natural. What brand are you using? Be interesting to see your blood results for sure.

Absolutely agree, some of my best growth areas happened on doses between 4 and 500 mgs of Test only.

I will say I did notice some better result extending beyond the traditional 10-12 weeks. Was still seeing some results earlier on and took some test e/c cycles out to 14-16 weeks. Depends on when you start to respond and if you’ve plateaued

**SampsonandDelilah** · 07-01-2020, 02:38 PM

Again, we are all SO different. Can generalize for sure but doesn’t guarantee you fall into that standardization.

Go read Chark’s cycle results of his “cycle 1” in the results section. He crushed it and didn’t go insane on his doses at all. Dude did it right and had the results to back up the logic

**Honkey_Kong** · 07-01-2020, 02:53 PM

I didn't really want to pipe in until the OP's blood results came in. Today should be the day...

Kiki what are your free and total test levels? Estradiols?

**kiki123** · 07-01-2020, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Honkey_Kong

I didn't really want to pipe in until the OP's blood results came in. Today should be the day...

Kiki what are your free and total test levels? Estradiols?

Posted them above. This was just at the 4 week mark so probably not fully saturated bloods at this point.

FREE TESTOSTERONE
Ref. Range Testosterone > 50.0 nmol/L * (8.7 - 29.0)
SHBG 19 nmol/L (13 - 71)
Free Testosterone 1734 pmol/L * (198 - 619)

REPRODUCTIVE HORMONES Specimen taken on 30/06/2020 at 7:18 am Ref.range
Oestradiol 460 pmol/L * (< 161)

**kiki123** · 07-01-2020, 06:21 PM

Cape buffalo tdee is 3500calories. I use myfitnessapal quite a bit so I think I'll post in diet section shortly. 10 years ago when I was toying with the idea of taking gear, never pulled the trigger until now. I do think there were some clever folks in the diet section back then. Hopefully that part of this forum hasn't changed.

**kiki123** · 07-01-2020, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by BG

400mgs is fine, thats 3x more then natural. What brand are you using? Be interesting to see your blood results for sure.

Private label test e 250

**Capebuffalo** · 07-01-2020, 06:33 PM

Originally Posted by kiki123

Cape buffalo tdee is 3500calories. I use myfitnessapal quite a bit so I think I'll post in diet section shortly. 10 years ago when I was toying with the idea of taking gear, never pulled the trigger until now. I do think there were some clever folks in the diet section back then. Hopefully that part of this forum hasn't changed.

Add a min of 500 cals to that and you will start seeing gains.

**kiki123** · 07-01-2020, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Add a min of 500 cals to that and you will start seeing gains.

OK noted. TDEE is more like 3400 just posted up my diet in diet section. Calories varies +- 200 day to day but 3300 is essentially the lowest I go to maintain my weight. Happy to add an extra night-time snack to make it around 3800cal's.

**kiki123** · 07-01-2020, 07:27 PM

Added my diet
https://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutr...-underway.html

**Capebuffalo** · 07-01-2020, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by kiki123

Added my diet
https://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutr...-underway.html

I’m not a diet guy but I’d add more carbs. I like some where around 1.5 gr x body weight of protien and 2 gr carbs x body weight.
The guys in the diet section will have better insight.

**SampsonandDelilah** · 07-01-2020, 08:07 PM

Carbs have become a dirty word for some stupid reason...wanna put on muscle? Eat them.

Nutrient timing with your fast absorbing carbs (simple) is helpful too.

Bagel for a snack...yes please

**Capebuffalo** · 07-01-2020, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah

Carbs have become a dirty word for some stupid reason...wanna put on muscle? Eat them.

Nutrient timing with your fast absorbing carbs (simple) is helpful too.

Bagel for a snack...yes please

This ^^^^^^

**Honkey_Kong** · 07-02-2020, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by BG

400mgs is fine, thats 3x more then natural. What brand are you using? Be interesting to see your blood results for sure.

Originally Posted by BG

If you weigh 200lbs then your only eating enough to be 200lbs, you want to weight 225 then you have to eat like you weigh 225lbs.

^^^ This

400mg of test is enough to make most rookies have great gains for their first cycle. The higher the dose you take, the more side effects you get. And if you're not eating like you weigh 225lbs, all the gear in the world isn't going to get you there.

If you look at the old bodybuilders from the 70's and 80's, they didn't use anywhere near the dosages I see kids today taking and they had some great physiques with symmetry and proportions.

**Chark** · 07-04-2020, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah

Carbs have become a dirty word for some stupid reason...wanna put on muscle? Eat them.

Nutrient timing with your fast absorbing carbs (simple) is helpful too.

Bagel for a snack...yes please

Made such a huge change to my physique when I stopped being afraid of carbs. I eat a bagel 5-6 days a week. Thanks for the shoutout!

**Honkey_Kong** · 07-04-2020, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by kiki123

OK noted. TDEE is more like 3400 just posted up my diet in diet section. Calories varies +- 200 day to day but 3300 is essentially the lowest I go to maintain my weight. Happy to add an extra night-time snack to make it around 3800cal's.

Everybody's body is different and everybody has different metabolisms. If you're not making gains at 3400 calories go to 4000 per day. If that doesn't work go to 4500. See where we're going? Whatever you're eating isn't enough so go eat more.