It’s not dht!

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07-20-2020, 02:47 PM
JBaum2000

It’s not dht!

Your hair loss from AAS might not be because of high Dihydrotestosterone levels as you have been told. Indulge me.

I get my bloodwork done on a comprehensive and frequent basis (I’m gifted to receive free lab tests), especially since starting AAS. I have been on various dosages of Testosterone in the past and I always wondered why I experienced hair loss after finishing a cycle and I assumed it was because, like many people think, “it was the damage that my high DHT levels did to my hair follicles while on cycle and has nothing to do with my hormones during PCT or the medications themselves”. I started using 0.5mg of Dutasteride, 5mg of finasteride, 200 mg oral Ketoconazole, 5 minute application of Ketoconazole shampoo everyday and 6 months later my hair was completely restored. Afterwards, I tried a pseudo-replacement dose of 150mg of cypionate, split into 2 doses, weekly and I ran the cycle for 6 months. NOT a hair lost during that time (Staying on my hair-loss regimen). Then I ran a PCT of Tamoxifen and hCG (normal dosages) and boom, after the PCT with 70% of the hair I had before.

ALL of my bloodwork was in range during the cycle (I did labs every 4 weeks) except DHT which was always below female range. However, 1 week into my PCT the typical culprits were out of range—High Cortisol and low T(free and total) causing the cascading effects like low T3, T4, etc. all with EXTREMELY LOW DHT. So I thought normal T (<1000 ng/dL) + very low DHT (~6 ng/dL) = hairloss?

I am now 4 months at 500 mg Test Cyp without my hair loss regimen and again not a hair lost. Other than Testosterone (obviously) and occasionally Prolactin all my labs have stayed normal (albeit a few others are barely in normal range).

I believe that I proved my hypothesis and added evidence to my theory that DHT may not always be the culprit. Instead I believe, with academic and clinical evidence, that 1. Cortisol which up-regulates after cycling off is devastating to hair follicles, and by corollary 2. low testosterone, as you begin to produce naturally and remains low for weeks during PCT, usually slows (and can stop entirely) hair growth during that time. 3. Additionally, there is a plethora of evidence that hypothyroidism (and by proxy, it’s down-regulated T3 and T4) cause hair loss in men and women without correlation in DHT or Testo levels. 4. Lastly, there I believe that Aromatase inhibitors (particularly Tamoxifen, Aromasin and Arimidex but less so, Clomid) have intrinsically toxic properties. Clinical evidence shows, increased instance of dermatological infections and inflammation in humans and ,at supra-therapeutic dosages, severe alopecia in rats (The JID) and monkeys (A study from Wuhan).

If you have the lower 1/3 of hair genetics (aka some form of alopecia by the time you’re 35), I advise that you either never touch AAS at any dosage or bite the bullet and never cycle off. The hormonal transition from getting off of AAS and the medications themselves are just brutal on hair.

P.S. most on this forum only repeat what they read on page 1 of google about hair loss and hormonal correlations and usually 1. Have never experienced AA but LOVE to comment on it or 2. Took stupid dosages of AAS with no ancillary hair-loss prevention. Don’t listen to them. Don’t get lost in the sauce!
07-20-2020, 03:10 PM
Test Monsterone

Interesting findings. It could be that because hair loss is such an individual thing, different people react differently to compounds and there are multiple/concurrent pathways to hair loss.

I notice most of my hair loss toward the last 1/3 of a cycle, but I don't come off completely (TRT), so I can't verify what you're saying about hair loss with pct. I noticed most when I wasn't on finasteride or minoxidil. After about 5 months on the protocol, it appears my hair loss stopped and I regained some of the fullness. You wouldn't notice I had any hair loss, but I had thick dense hair my whole life, and I could definitely tell when it was thinning.
07-20-2020, 03:58 PM
morton30

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBaum2000

Your hair loss from AAS might not be because of high Dihydrotestosterone levels as you have been told. Indulge me.

I get my bloodwork done on a comprehensive and frequent basis (I’m gifted to receive free lab tests), especially since starting AAS. I have been on various dosages of Testosterone in the past and I always wondered why I experienced hair loss after finishing a cycle and I assumed it was because, like many people think, “it was the damage that my high DHT levels did to my hair follicles while on cycle and has nothing to do with my hormones during PCT or the medications themselves”. I started using 0.5mg of Dutasteride, 5mg of finasteride, 200 mg oral Ketoconazole, 5 minute application of Ketoconazole shampoo everyday and 6 months later my hair was completely restored. Afterwards, I tried a pseudo-replacement dose of 150mg of cypionate, split into 2 doses, weekly and I ran the cycle for 6 months. NOT a hair lost during that time (Staying on my hair-loss regimen). Then I ran a PCT of Tamoxifen and hCG (normal dosages) and boom, after the PCT with 70% of the hair I had before.

ALL of my bloodwork was in range during the cycle (I did labs every 4 weeks) except DHT which was always below female range. However, 1 week into my PCT the typical culprits were out of range—High Cortisol and low T(free and total) causing the cascading effects like low T3, T4, etc. all with EXTREMELY LOW DHT. So I thought normal T (<1000 ng/dL) + very low DHT (~6 ng/dL) = hairloss?

I am now 4 months at 500 mg Test Cyp without my hair loss regimen and again not a hair lost. Other than Testosterone (obviously) and occasionally Prolactin all my labs have stayed normal (albeit a few others are barely in normal range).

I believe that I proved my hypothesis and added evidence to my theory that DHT may not always be the culprit. Instead I believe, with academic and clinical evidence, that 1. Cortisol which up-regulates after cycling off is devastating to hair follicles, and by corollary 2. low testosterone, as you begin to produce naturally and remains low for weeks during PCT, usually slows (and can stop entirely) hair growth during that time. 3. Additionally, there is a plethora of evidence that hypothyroidism (and by proxy, it’s down-regulated T3 and T4) cause hair loss in men and women without correlation in DHT or Testo levels. 4. Lastly, there I believe that Aromatase inhibitors (particularly Tamoxifen, Aromasin and Arimidex but less so, Clomid) have intrinsically toxic properties. Clinical evidence shows, increased instance of dermatological infections and inflammation in humans and ,at supra-therapeutic dosages, severe alopecia in rats (The JID) and monkeys (A study from Wuhan).

If you have the lower 1/3 of hair genetics (aka some form of alopecia by the time you’re 35), I advise that you either never touch AAS at any dosage or bite the bullet and never cycle off. The hormonal transition from getting off of AAS and the medications themselves are just brutal on hair.

P.S. most on this forum only repeat what they read on page 1 of google about hair loss and hormonal correlations and usually 1. Have never experienced AA but LOVE to comment on it or 2. Took stupid dosages of AAS with no ancillary hair-loss prevention. Don’t listen to them. Don’t get lost in the sauce!

The only time i shed hair is on DHT derivative steroids i can take 600mg tren no hair lose then i can take a few hundred mg of mast and im pulling clumps out
07-20-2020, 06:45 PM
magic32

JB is not denying that DHT causes hair loss, but rather offering other plausible causes.

Thanks JB, that's a good piece, with sound hypothesis, methodology, and conclusions. Especially, your introduction and extinction of independent variables/interventions (the 3 Tx meds) to see how they affected the dependent variables (AA and labs).

However, you must also consider, as cited by TestMon, that due to the myriad of individual genetic predispositions, one cannot legitimately extrapolate such conclusions to the general population as you've done here. Among other components, the scientific method requires that both of the inextricably linked mandates of validity and reliability be met. They are linked because, the former is bolstered by the latter, that is to say, the accuracy of a measure/measurement is supported by the consistency, i.e., repeatability of said measure. This is why independent study results are often juxtaposed and/or cited in a meta-analytical fashion to authenticate the findings of related successive results, none of which can exist in a case study (CS), i.e., a sample of one which you've provided here.

Ultimately, the only things we know for sure from your CS, is how your body worked THIS TIME, how it MIGHT continue to function in the future, and how others MIGHT function as well.

NOTE: Morton's distinction above.
07-20-2020, 09:30 PM
JBaum2000

Quote:

Originally Posted by magic32

Ultimately, the only things we know for sure from your CS, is how your body worked THIS TIME, how it MIGHT continue to function in the future, and how others MIGHT function as well.

Great points! Unfortunately for all AAS users, there is little clinical evidence studying hormonal correlations or relative-levels following pituitary suppression and subsequent use of hCG or aromatase-inhibitors. There is anecdotal evidence on the topic but it’s only hearsay.

Every AAS user needs to do labs, labs, labs. Your own hair loss could be from high DHT—any androgen, high Cortisol, low Testo, an allergic reaction or, likely, a combination of them.