Need advice for my second cycle please

**kiki123** · 09-18-2020, 12:08 AM

Stats 37yo male
Training 17 years consistently
5'10" 190lbs 15% bf

Just considering my second cycle. I've just finished my first ever cycle of test e 400mg wk for 13weeks. Trained consistently throughout cycle diet was approx 400cal surplus. Not too impressed by the results. Up 10lbs, bf% is higher now. Was actually looking at my pics 170lbs a few months before cycle and tbh I looked much better at 12%. So I'll be adjusting my diet over next 3 months. Then I want to jump back on a cycle again for the Summer (New Zealand). Here is a list of what I can get my hands on locally. I want to maximise muscle gains (who doesn't) and not just do what I did last time which was eat in a surplus and end up looking soft. Want to keep the cycle relatively simple and I don't think I'm ready for Tren yet. At 400mgs /wk of test I feel I should have upped it to at least 600 or 700mg of test a week as I know I can handle the estrogen sides. My bloodwork showed the test was definitely legit. I had no estrogen issues (although e2 was definitely elevated!) and didn't end up using my AI (exemestane). I'm on propecia and to be honest my hair feels thicker now! No shedding at all.

Can I get some opinions on what could be a good second cycle for me? I would prefer not to have to wait up to 5 - 6 weeks before I start noticing anything. I would also prefer to limit the pinning to twice a week. EOD pinning is not something I want to do.

Here is what I can get my hands on...

Test e
Test p
Deca
Tren a
Masterone P
Winny
Clen
Anadrol
Anavar

Thanks guys.

**Test Monsterone** · 09-18-2020, 07:59 AM

I would add one other compound to the test. It doesn't matter which really, because we're all different. One guy wants to keep his hair, no masteron . One guy gets deca -dick, no deca. One guy has anger issues, no tren . One guy has achy joints, no winny. I would try deca if you want to put on some size still. Maybe like 400 test/400 deca. If you really want, you can start with 4-6 weeks of Test P along with your Test E, as a kick-start. I would never do masteron *hair*, tren (I don't want to go to jail and it's neuro and cardio toxic as hell), or Winstrol (joints). Clen is unnecessary imo, you're not competing.

**BMX44** · 09-18-2020, 10:34 AM

I am agree with Test Monsterone. Every body is different, even side effects are different from person to person. If you are looking to bulk, I will go with 500/mg Deca and 400/mg test E a week. you can do this for a 12 weeks cycle. you can add anavar by the 8 week if you want. this will give you some definition. I see you dont have problems with estrogen but If you ever have estrogen issues do not suppressed it completely. We need estrogen to keep muscles too. I will use exemestane only if you feel gyno, but just for awhile until the gyno symptoms are gone.

Good luck kiki123

**Capebuffalo** · 09-18-2020, 11:13 AM

If you weren’t satisfied with your first cycle I would look at diet and training. Your first cycle should yield great results. Either you need to adjust or your gear was underdosed. Did yo have any blood work done before during and after?

**Mr. Small** · 09-18-2020, 01:16 PM

Really, sort out the problem with the first cycle or it will happen again for the second

**kiki123** · 09-18-2020, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

If you weren’t satisfied with your first cycle I would look at diet and training. Your first cycle should yield great results. Either you need to adjust or your gear was underdosed. Did yo have any blood work done before during and after?

I posted my diet in diet section, essentially upped from 3700 to 4100cals by upping my carb intake. I have had bloodwork done before and during. Not after as I havnt started pct yet. My weight increased around week 9 and stayed there approx 10lbs up. Lifts slightly up but I will say my endurance was something that improved the most. Not my main objective, but just saying. I think the underdosing could be a factor, as 400mg isn't the biggest dose by any means and due to supply issues had to use 3ml syringe which wasted some of the gear every pin.

**kiki123** · 09-18-2020, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Small

Really, sort out the problem with the first cycle or it will happen again for the second

Yep that's the plan.

**kiki123** · 09-18-2020, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by Test Monsterone

I would add one other compound to the test. It doesn't matter which really, because we're all different. One guy wants to keep his hair, no masteron. One guy gets deca-dick, no deca. One guy has anger issues, no tren. One guy has achy joints, no winny. I would try deca if you want to put on some size still. Maybe like 400 test/400 deca. If you really want, you can start with 4-6 weeks of Test P along with your Test E, as a kick-start. I would never do masteron *hair*, tren (I don't want to go to jail and it's neuro and cardio toxic as hell), or Winstrol (joints). Clen is unnecessary imo, you're not competing.

Thanks for the advice Test Monsterone. Deca was something I've been reading up on. A Deca/Test combo perhaps or a higher dose test and oral kick start or finisher.

**kiki123** · 09-18-2020, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by BMX44

I am agree with Test Monsterone. Every body is different, even side effects are different from person to person. If you are looking to bulk, I will go with 500/mg Deca and 400/mg test E a week. you can do this for a 12 weeks cycle. you can add anavar by the 8 week if you want. this will give you some definition. I see you dont have problems with estrogen but If you ever have estrogen issues do not suppressed it completely. We need estrogen to keep muscles too. I will use exemestane only if you feel gyno, but just for awhile until the gyno symptoms are gone.

Good luck kiki123

Thanks, another vote for Deca. Yes I never felt the need to pop my AI as I wanted to keep some estrogen to make the most of the cycle. And of course it helps I'm not effected with sides from high levels of it.

**charger69** · 09-18-2020, 06:23 PM

You do not like the extra BF. I hear ya. Once you get advanced, you can lose body fat and gain weight.
I recommend deca , but you will have water retention and will not like the looks. It is a process. You really need to gain weight to get bigger.
I will tell you that if you diet off the weight you gained, you will lose most of your gains.
10 -15 lbs is about normal for a first cycle. Yes- you will have extra fat. You don’t grow unless you have extra calories ( unless advanced).
Besides the water with deca, it takes awhile for it to kick in.
I would keep a detailed log. Then I would try frontloading in the future so you can see the difference.

Actually, now that I think about it ...... a cycle with NPP and test would fit you better. There are other things that can be added, but then you are not sure what is causing what reaction. Doing it one by one will give you that information, but is not absolute . Different combinations and qtys play a role also. Even today, I do not add just one thing at a time. I am just impatient and realize that I can’t be doing this forever. I am not going to promote it for you, but I am also not going to say that adding just one thing is necessarily the right thing. I would be hypocrite if I did.

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**Capebuffalo** · 09-18-2020, 07:21 PM

Originally Posted by charger69

You do not like the extra BF. I hear ya. Once you get advanced, you can lose body fat and gain weight.
I recommend deca , but you will have water retention and will not like the looks. It is a process. You really need to gain weight to get bigger.
I will tell you that if you diet off the weight you gained, you will lose most of your gains.
10 -15 lbs is about normal for a first cycle. Yes- you will have extra fat. You don’t grow unless you have extra calories ( unless advanced).
Besides the water with deca, it takes awhile for it to kick in.
I would keep a detailed log. Then I would try frontloading in the future so you can see the difference.

Actually, now that I think about it ...... a cycle with NPP and test would fit you better. There are other things that can be added, but then you are not sure what is causing what reaction. Doing it one by one will give you that information, but is not absolute . Different combinations and qtys play a role also. Even today, I do not add just one thing at a time. I am just impatient and realize that I can’t be doing this forever. I am not going to promote it for you, but I am also not going to say that adding just one thing is necessarily the right thing. I would be hypocrite if I did.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Npp for sure. Starts faster and if you have to bail out due to sides or etc it leaves quicker.

**kiki123** · 09-19-2020, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Capebuffalo

Npp for sure. Starts faster and if you have to bail out due to sides or etc it leaves quicker.

Ok noted. But I dont have access to npp only Deca Durabolin . I think maybe a frontload of test and deca could be an option. Orals, well still not sure about that. Nothing on my list that will really help to kicksstart except for Anadrol and thats a pretty serious oral from what I've researched.

**charger69** · 09-19-2020, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by kiki123

Ok noted. But I dont have access to npp only Deca Durabolin. I think maybe a frontload of test and deca could be an option. Orals, well still not sure about that. Nothing on my list that will really help to kicksstart except for Anadrol and thats a pretty serious oral from what I've researched.

If you look for it, you will find it.
I love deca , but you will not because of water retention based on your comMents. Anything to get you bigger will require extra calories. There are advanced techniques but you are not ready yet. You need to see your reactions so you have an idea of what to do.
The water will be lost within a couple of weeks from deca.
Make sure you have your diet dialed in and you will be fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

**kiki123** · 09-20-2020, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by charger69

If you look for it, you will find it.
I love deca , but you will not because of water retention based on your comMents. Anything to get you bigger will require extra calories. There are advanced techniques but you are not ready yet. You need to see your reactions so you have an idea of what to do.
The water will be lost within a couple of weeks from deca.
Make sure you have your diet dialed in and you will be fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes I agree diet is key.

Finding NPP not so simple living in NZ. Unlike the states, I'm not aware of any domestic based websites. Sarms get through customs, not willing to chance gear through customs though. I'll be sticking with my one and only local source for gear hence the limited availability list.

**MaxiMyME** · 09-26-2020, 11:15 AM

This is something imo you really should decide based on what risks you are willing to take (side effects, longterm effects, etc), what your budget is, and what your goals are (cut, bulk, recomp, etc).

Research n know each of the compounds you have access to intimately. Check pubmed for side effects and potential longterm effects, responsiveness, etc.

If you havent run deca and want to bulk, I think test and deca is a great combo.

Best of luck