Results 1 to 19 of 19
Like Tree24Likes
  • 1 Post By ksingh93
  • 1 Post By ksingh93
  • 1 Post By Lethal Hamburger
  • 3 Post By SampsonandDelilah
  • 1 Post By Lethal Hamburger
  • 2 Post By ascendant
  • 2 Post By Lethal Hamburger
  • 3 Post By SampsonandDelilah
  • 1 Post By Lethal Hamburger
  • 1 Post By SampsonandDelilah
  • 4 Post By charger69
  • 1 Post By ascendant
  • 2 Post By Lethal Hamburger
  • 1 Post By ascendant

Thread: When to Start Aromatase Inhibitor With Dbol Cycle?

  1. #1
    ascendant's Avatar
    ascendant is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Right behind you...
    Posts
    1,886

    When to Start Aromatase Inhibitor With Dbol Cycle?

    Ok, so doing a cycle with dbol to kick it off and just wondering when I should start taking the adex? Here is my cycle:

    Weeks 1-14 - 600mg Test Cyp
    Weeks 1-14 - 400mg Deca
    Weeks 1-6 - 50mg Dbol
    Weeks 2-14 - 0.5mg/eod Adex

    (Trt after, so no PCT necessary)

    Current plan as you can see is to start the adex at week 2. That should be fine, right?

    Also, would 0.5mg of adex every three days be better? I never had issues with gyno in the past, and I've heard lowering your estrogen too much can be a bad thing as well, so figured I'd ask. Thanks!

  2. #2
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    381
    Start when you feel the sides i e bloating too much ,itchy nipples,soft boners . Start with e3d at .5 and adjust from there . Now make sure you have prami or caber on hand because high prolactin sides are kinda the same as high estro sides .
    ascendant likes this.

  3. #3
    ascendant's Avatar
    ascendant is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Right behind you...
    Posts
    1,886
    Quote Originally Posted by ksingh93 View Post
    Start when you feel the sides i e bloating too much ,itchy nipples,soft boners . Start with e3d at .5 and adjust from there . Now make sure you have prami or caber on hand because high prolactin sides are kinda the same as high estro sides .
    Thanks. I don't have either of those yet, and never had issues on Deca in the past, but it has been over a decade since I've done a cycle, so I just might grab one. I'd hate to spend the money though if I don't need it. Plus, I already have tadal in case I need that. I mean if I start to have sexual issues, I could always just order the prami, take it, and it should start helping pretty quick anyway, right?

  4. #4
    ksingh93's Avatar
    ksingh93 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    381
    Quote Originally Posted by ascendant View Post
    Thanks. I don't have either of those yet, and never had issues on Deca in the past, but it has been over a decade since I've done a cycle, so I just might grab one. I'd hate to spend the money though if I don't need it. Plus, I already have tadal in case I need that. I mean if I start to have sexual issues, I could always just order the prami, take it, and it should start helping pretty quick anyway, right?
    Yeh just grab it in case .you can always use it later on a tren cycle. You should not have any sexual issues on 600 mg of test if everything is in check. Save that tadafil for 3 somes on trt .
    ascendant likes this.

  5. #5
    Lethal Hamburger's Avatar
    Lethal Hamburger is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    64
    My question is why take so much test if ypu then have to kill gains with an ai?

  6. #6
    ascendant's Avatar
    ascendant is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Right behind you...
    Posts
    1,886
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Hamburger View Post
    My question is why take so much test if ypu then have to kill gains with an ai?
    Well, that is why I was considering easing back on the AI some. With this cycle, if I didn't take any AI at all, the estrogen would just be too high. I'd most likely end up with gyno. I have to at least take some to lower the estrogen a little. It shouldn't hinder gains either so long as I don't go overboard. But, since adex is one that's new for me (and again, it's been a LONG time since I've done a cycle), I was debating how much would be adequate, but not overboard. Definitely going to lower the dose like ksingh93 suggested.

  7. #7
    Lethal Hamburger's Avatar
    Lethal Hamburger is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by ascendant View Post
    Well, that is why I was considering easing back on the AI some. With this cycle, if I didn't take any AI at all, the estrogen would just be too high. I'd most likely end up with gyno. I have to at least take some to lower the estrogen a little. It shouldn't hinder gains either so long as I don't go overboard. But, since adex is one that's new for me (and again, it's been a LONG time since I've done a cycle), I was debating how much would be adequate, but not overboard. Definitely going to lower the dose like ksingh93 suggested.
    What I am getting at is, why not drop test down to 300 or 400 or to a point where ai is not indicated? Especially when you have that much nandrolone and methandrostenalone in the cycle?

    You would likely see some interesting interaction with estrogen alpha receptors and the compound nandrolone anyway, so why throw in a bucket of petrol by adding a high dose of an aromatising substrate like testosterone ?
    Last edited by Lethal Hamburger; 01-23-2021 at 09:25 PM.
    SampsonandDelilah likes this.

  8. #8
    SampsonandDelilah's Avatar
    SampsonandDelilah is online now Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    La Cocina
    Posts
    2,855
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Hamburger View Post
    What I am getting at is, why not drop test down to 300 or 400 or to a point where ai is not indicated? Especially when you have that much nandrolone and methandrostenalone in the cycle? Why pump the dose of the least anabolic compound?

    Iíll say this, as Iíve dabbled in this game Iíve found that when Iím running compounds like 19 Nors with testosterone that my sides are much more manageable if I run the testosterone at slightly above the therapeutic range. It helps keep my libido and man parts happy and works synergistically while the heavier anabolic loaded compounds (tren /Deca especially) do the heavier lifting and donít compete for receptors. Iíve also read data to back this up that suggests the free testosterone that doesnít get into the competing receptor has a higher affinity for conversion as it has nowhere to go. This is why Iíve experienced harder side effects (especially with E2 and prolactin) when Iím running high amounts of test along with high amounts of 19 Nors.

    I do much worse on 500 mgs of Deca with 500 mgs of test as opposed to 500 mgs of Deca alongside 250 mgs of test and supported with a drug like proviron that maximizes the lower amount of testosterone (and also provides ancillary benefits with estrogen along with a small androgenic load) as well adding in an additional layer like masteron .

    I know thereís plenty of guys that love high test with lower 19 nors, but doesnít it make sense to have the drug with the highest anabolic/androgenic ratio do the heaviest lifting and support it with the amount of testosterone necessary due to suppression?

    Thatís my .2 anyways and what has worked for me really well in the last couple of years
    Cuz, Chark and Lethal Hamburger like this.

  9. #9
    Lethal Hamburger's Avatar
    Lethal Hamburger is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah View Post
    I’ll say this, as I’ve dabbled in this game I’ve found that when I’m running compounds like 19 Nors with testosterone that my sides are much more manageable if I run the testosterone at slightly above the therapeutic range. It helps keep my libido and man parts happy and works synergistically while the heavier anabolic loaded compounds (tren /Deca especially) do the heavier lifting and don’t compete for receptors. I’ve also read data to back this up that suggests the free testosterone that doesn’t get into the competing receptor has a higher affinity for conversion as it has nowhere to go. This is why I’ve experienced harder side effects (especially with E2 and prolactin) when I’m running high amounts of test along with high amounts of 19 Nors.

    I do much worse on 500 mgs of Deca with 500 mgs of test as opposed to 500 mgs of Deca alongside 250 mgs of test and supported with a drug like proviron that maximizes the lower amount of testosterone (and also provides ancillary benefits with estrogen along with a small androgenic load) as well adding in an additional layer like masteron .

    I know there’s plenty of guys that love high test with lower 19 nors, but doesn’t it make sense to have the drug with the highest anabolic/androgenic ratio do the heaviest lifting and support it with the amount of testosterone necessary due to suppression?

    That’s my .2 anyways and what has worked for me really well in the last couple of years
    Once again I find my self tipping my hat to you sir.
    I suggested he drop test to 300 to 400 from crazy number, as many need to be slowly brought back from the deafening echo of high test and progestin based drug cycles heard almost everywhere.

    Like you, I too run only the amount of test required to produce a nice amount of 17b estradiol. For me it's around 125 to 150mg of test depending if I run boldenone alongside I will run 250mg then.

    To add to your brilliant explanation above SampsonandDiliah, the dosing is often unique to the individual, as is the interaction with the compounds themselves in a stack. If you need a gram of test you might be better off on 250mgs of tren with 125mg of test fir example. Which would keep total drug load down and reduce the likelihood for the indication of an ai.
    Last edited by Lethal Hamburger; 01-23-2021 at 10:04 PM.
    SampsonandDelilah likes this.

  10. #10
    ascendant's Avatar
    ascendant is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Right behind you...
    Posts
    1,886
    Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback.

    The reason for the high test level is based on my experience in the past. When it comes to cycles, unless I load up on a lot of it, I don't tend to get that great of results. No idea why, just how my body works. I did like 7 or 8 cycles back in the day, and if I did anything less than 500mg of test a week, my results just weren't anything that spectacular.

    Besides, the AI is pretty cheap, and I can just take it at a really low dose, so I should be fine. Worst scenario is I'll have to adjust the AI as necessary to keep my body in check. Best scenario is I'll explode with growth fast, get to where I want to be in a short period of time, and then just maintain from there on out.

    I mean if I get the results I want faster than I expect, I can always ease back on it at that point anyway. I just don't see any huge harm in the higher dosing, particularly because like I said before, it seems like that's what my body needs to get the most bang for my buck.

  11. #11
    Lethal Hamburger's Avatar
    Lethal Hamburger is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by ascendant View Post
    Thanks guys, I really appreciate the feedback.

    The reason for the high test level is based on my experience in the past. When it comes to cycles, unless I load up on a lot of it, I don't tend to get that great of results. No idea why, just how my body works. I did like 7 or 8 cycles back in the day, and if I did anything less than 500mg of test a week, my results just weren't anything that spectacular.

    Besides, the AI is pretty cheap, and I can just take it at a really low dose, so I should be fine. Worst scenario is I'll have to adjust the AI as necessary to keep my body in check. Best scenario is I'll explode with growth fast, get to where I want to be in a short period of time, and then just maintain from there on out.

    I mean if I get the results I want faster than I expect, I can always ease back on it at that point anyway. I just don't see any huge harm in the higher dosing, particularly because like I said before, it seems like that's what my body needs to get the most bang for my buck.
    Just out of interest, how much ai use was there on your cycles around 500mg?
    I ask this as I often see cycles of 500mg with zero ai use. My max dose on test alone is around 500mgs. If I bump to 750mg I soften up too much and look bloated etc so droppef back to 500mg rather than an ai.
    I grew as normal and the mild eodema subsided within 2 weeks.

    My suggestion would be to effectively stack compounds as SampsonandDiliah and I were suggesting, and then by adding just the required amount of beneficial testosterone (needed due to suppression) you let the compounds with a higher anabolic to androgenic ratio do the heavy lifting and estrogenic sides from test are more easily managed.
    Last edited by Lethal Hamburger; 01-23-2021 at 11:58 PM.

  12. #12
    SampsonandDelilah's Avatar
    SampsonandDelilah is online now Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    La Cocina
    Posts
    2,855
    Blog Entries
    1
    Bottom line man, we’re all different.


    What’s good for the goose ain’t always good for the gander...

  13. #13
    Lethal Hamburger's Avatar
    Lethal Hamburger is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by SampsonandDelilah View Post
    Bottom line man, we’re all different.


    What’s good for the goose ain’t always good for the gander...
    I hear you man. Just trying to prevent harm where and when I can.
    SampsonandDelilah likes this.

  14. #14
    SampsonandDelilah's Avatar
    SampsonandDelilah is online now Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    La Cocina
    Posts
    2,855
    Blog Entries
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Hamburger View Post
    I hear you man. Just trying to prevent harm where and when I can.
    I’m on board bro...that was for the OP.
    Lethal Hamburger likes this.

  15. #15
    charger69's Avatar
    charger69 is online now Knowledgeable Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    7,639
    Quote Originally Posted by ascendant View Post
    Thanks. I don't have either of those yet, and never had issues on Deca in the past, but it has been over a decade since I've done a cycle, so I just might grab one. I'd hate to spend the money though if I don't need it. Plus, I already have tadal in case I need that. I mean if I start to have sexual issues, I could always just order the prami, take it, and it should start helping pretty quick anyway, right?
    Youíd hate even worse to need it and not have it.
    I have AI and caber o hand at all times. I never use it though. I am sure the shelf life has expired. LOL


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    ascendant's Avatar
    ascendant is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Right behind you...
    Posts
    1,886
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Hamburger View Post
    Just out of interest, how much ai use was there on your cycles around 500mg?
    I ask this as I often see cycles of 500mg with zero ai use. My max dose on test alone is around 500mgs. If I bump to 750mg I soften up too much and look bloated etc so droppef back to 500mg rather than an ai.
    I grew as normal and the mild eodema subsided within 2 weeks.

    My suggestion would be to effectively stack compounds as SampsonandDiliah and I were suggesting, and then by adding just the required amount of beneficial testosterone (needed due to suppression) you let the compounds with a higher anabolic to androgenic ratio do the heavy lifting and estrogenic sides from test are more easily managed.
    Thanks again for all your feedback. Good question as far as the AI use back then. Like I said, it has been over a decade since I've done a cycle, so I honestly can't remember how much I was using. I was also erroneously using Nolva back then. I did try to brush back up on my research and saw that Adex was far preferable to Nolva, so I did try to get myself up to speed.

    I guess a part of my issue here is determining just how much is the "requirement amount" of testosterone . I mean like I had said, I used it in the past and got very little out of my cycles. So, it was quite a bit of money down the tubes. I can't remember how much of other compounds, but I do know I started test at 400 and eventually went up to 800 because the results just weren't that great.

    I do have to ask since you mentioned it in another post here, as far as the "preventing harm" remark, what would be the biggest concerns as far as too much test? A part of my concern is what people bring up about how you want to take more test than deca to help prevent deca dick. But again, that's the info I used to go on back in the day during cycles and I never had any issues.

    I'm not trying to be a pain or play devil's advocate by any means. I just also don't want to cut down my dose and have another incident where it gives me sub-par results for the cost. Just basing it on my past experiences, but I'm always more than receptive to new information and do really appreciate it.
    Last edited by ascendant; 01-24-2021 at 04:49 PM.
    Lethal Hamburger likes this.

  17. #17
    ascendant's Avatar
    ascendant is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Right behind you...
    Posts
    1,886
    Quote Originally Posted by charger69 View Post
    You’d hate even worse to need it and not have it.
    I have AI and caber o hand at all times. I never use it though. I am sure the shelf life has expired. LOL


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Yea, you do have a good point there. I bought prami just to have on hand in case. Got that one because it was far more accessible for me.

    I also read about how it can help with the sexual side-effects of SSRIs. I take a mild one (Citalopram), and while I love the fact that it improves my endurance in bed (I can literally go as long as I want to and control my orgasms no problem on it), it does also lower my sex drive some. So, I'm curious as to what kind of impact it will have on that. I'd love to increase my sex drive without losing that ability to have complete control over my orgasms, lol. So, I'll be finding out in not too long. Going to start with a real low does just to test that out, then after keep it on hand just in case like you said. Thanks again for the feedback, I really appreciate it.

  18. #18
    Lethal Hamburger's Avatar
    Lethal Hamburger is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Posts
    64
    Quote Originally Posted by ascendant View Post
    Thanks again for all your feedback. Good question as far as the AI use back then. Like I said, it has been over a decade since I've done a cycle, so I honestly can't remember how much I was using. I was also erroneously using Nolva back then. I did try to brush back up on my research and saw that Adex was far preferable to Nolva, so I did try to get myself up to speed.

    I guess a part of my issue here is determining just how much is the "requirement amount" of testosterone . I mean like I had said, I used it in the past and got very little out of my cycles. So, it was quite a bit of money down the tubes. I can't remember how much of other compounds, but I do know I started test at 400 and eventually went up to 800 because the results just weren't that great.

    I do have to ask since you mentioned it in another post here, as far as the "preventing harm" remark, what would be the biggest concerns as far as too much test? A part of my concern is what people bring up about how you want to take more test than deca to help prevent deca dick. But again, that's the info I used to go on back in the day during cycles and I never had any issues.

    I'm not trying to be a pain or play devil's advocate by any means. I just also don't want to cut down my dose and have another incident where it gives me sub-par results for the cost. Just basing it on my past experiences, but I'm always more than receptive to new information and do really appreciate it.
    By preventing harm I am referring to my philosophy of safety first.
    If you are not growing as anticipated on 400mgs dosage doubling+ is not really a safe move.
    Ais can be very dangerous. As you may have often read, many users talk of crashing e2 from erroneous use and have the narrow perspective of concern only for lost gains or effecting mood, druggies droop etc but what is often overlooked are the neuro and cardio protective properties of estrogens. This is HUGELY IMPORTANT when dosing androgens stratospherically. Androgens out of ratio to estrogens kill the heart and nerve tissues big time.

    In my humble opinion, deca dick is from running stupid doses of nandrolone period. Some individuals who in the past have ran nandrolone monotherapy could talk to this. So YES some testosterone is needed for the production of dht and estrogens.
    Nandrolone competes with testosterone for the 5 alpha reductase pathway, nandrolone 5 alpha reduces into dihydronandrolone whereas testosterone 5 alpha reduces into dht or dihydrotestosterone (which has clear biological functionality on target cells).
    Nandrolone also aromatises into synthetic estrogens and plentiful estrone which competes with estradiol for alpha estrogen receptors on a roughly 1 to 1 ratio. This estrone and or synthetic estrogens appear to have a detrimental effect on sexual function in both males and females.

    This will sound horrible but I will try my best...
    If you arent growing off resonable doses of drugs it maybe that something is amis in the total package. Through the roof dosing would not make sense unless you are a big big dude already and or prepping for a contest.
    Please don't find insult in my opinion. I joined this forum as it stood out from the rest because members hete do really appear to lookout for each other.
    Last edited by Lethal Hamburger; 01-24-2021 at 09:56 PM.

  19. #19
    ascendant's Avatar
    ascendant is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Right behind you...
    Posts
    1,886
    Quote Originally Posted by Lethal Hamburger View Post
    By preventing harm I am referring to my philosophy of safety first.
    If you are not growing as anticipated on 400mgs dosage doubling+ is not really a safe move.
    Ais can be very dangerous. As you may have often read, many users talk of crashing e2 from erroneous use and have the narrow perspective of concern only for lost gains or effecting mood, druggies droop etc but what is often overlooked are the neuro and cardio protective properties of estrogens. This is HUGELY IMPORTANT when dosing androgens stratospherically. Androgens out of ratio to estrogens kill the heart and nerve tissues big time.

    In my humble opinion, deca dick is from running stupid doses of nandrolone period. Some individuals who in the past have ran nandrolone monotherapy could talk to this. So YES some testosterone is needed for the production of dht and estrogens.
    Nandrolone competes with testosterone for the 5 alpha reductase pathway, nandrolone 5 alpha reduces into dihydronandrolone whereas testosterone 5 alpha reduces into dht or dihydrotestosterone (which has clear biological functionality on target cells).
    Nandrolone also aromatises into synthetic estrogens and plentiful estrone which competes with estradiol for alpha estrogen receptors on a roughly 1 to 1 ratio. This estrone and or synthetic estrogens appear to have a detrimental effect on sexual function in both males and females.

    This will sound horrible but I will try my best...
    If you arent growing off resonable doses of drugs it maybe that something is amis in the total package. Through the roof dosing would not make sense unless you are a big big dude already and prepping for a contest.
    Please don't find insult in my opinion. I joined this forum as it stood out from the rest because members hete do really appear to lookout for each other.
    No insult at all. I actually really appreciate your feedback.

    Another thing here as well was yes, back when I did previous cycles, I was quite a bit bigger than I am now. About 240lbs and 8%bf on average (at 5'10), while currently about 200 and 12%bf.

    Maybe I will ease back on my test then. And with the AI, I plan to do very low doses. Considering 0.25mg Adex twice per week, maybe even slightly less frequently.

    I'm going to keep digging around the web researching as time allows, and again really do appreciate all this info.
    Lethal Hamburger likes this.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •